Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[drag0nscythe]

In all honestly, I find Ryu Hayabusa to be a much more likely character than someone like Crash tbh.

To each there own. But I disagree. I find the cereal box bandicoot more likely given everything. But that all falls to preference.

 

[CureParfait]

BlazBlue (Ragna) ain't coming before Guilty Gear (Sol Badguy).

I think that pretty much comes down to Nintendo and how ArcSys feels about it for Ragna's case. Since there's a possibility Nintendo themselves want Ragna first and ArcSys maybe fine with that.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I am amused at the image of Nintendo letting Sakurai have Terry in via a Faustian bargain.

"So I get Bogard, what do I have to do in exchange?"

"Oh nothing significant, just make a moveset for a certain... Microsoft character."

The Nintendo executive walks out bellowing evil laughter

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Since there's a possibility Nintendo themselves want Ragna first and ArcSys maybe fine with that.

Where does this possibility stem from? Kind of curious.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Reggie Seas-Aime

Combining my love for the sea and my passion for helping companies grow: “Brunswick Corporation, maker of @SeaRayBoat and @MercuryMarine engines elects Reggie Fils-Aimé to its Board of Directors.”https://t.co/IOEkAGt6wv pic.twitter.com/mvQCTDO6aJ

— Reggie Fils-Aimé (@Reggie) October 26, 2020

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

I personally don't have strong feelings one way or another about Hayabusa, but if we have the opportunity to get this song in the game, I'm certainly not opposed.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I am on the fence of "No" for Ryu.

That's not what being "on the fence" means...

You know who is on my mind, since Melee. Goemon. One of the cereal box mascots from the N64 that was rather big on the N64. It is all relative dude.

Well, realistically he's probably 4th or 5th in line in terms of Konami characters. And we're already at number 2.

Also to expand, people assume their childhood is always similar to others. If players did not grow up on the NES or Xbox, Ryu who?

Yeah but...those two consoles are, like, 20 years apart. So you just covered, like, half of all gamers.

You know a big series I remember on the NES. Double Dragon. that thing had 3 NES games, SNES games and was huge for some time. Should we consider them also?

Honestly, yes. Though I think River City actually has a better shot. It's a bigger franchise overall(just, not in NA in the NES era), and Kunio has more personality and moveset potential than the Lee brothers.

Just saying it does not convince me. That is relative. They only thing I ever see NG on is hard NES games. Not necessarily good ones. Just hard. I do not see him as an NES icon. I see people conflating.

I mean, if you don't wanna be convinced, fine. You can just be wrong.

Hayabusa is on the same level as Simon. Moreso in fact because Hayabusa had a huge revival decades later and regularly appears as part of a fighting game franchise.

I personally don't have strong feelings one way or another about Hayabusa, but if we have the opportunity to get this song in the game, I'm certainly not opposed.

Hell yeah...

Warriors Orochi 3 OST - Ryu Hayabusa Theme

Warriors Orochi 3 Soundtrack Ryu Hayabusa Theme.

www.youtube.com

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Reggie is going everywhere!

I thought he was at Cornell, then Gamestop, now Brunswick Co.? Is he just working everywhere or job hopping?

 

[Idon]

You know as much as I love Unbreakable Determination, I've been listening to the classic Ninja Gaiden OST and I must say it's chock full of catchy bangers.

... Though yeah Unbreakable Determination is still the best song in that tracklist.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Reggie Seas Aime

Reggie is going everywhere!

I thought he was at Cornell, then Gamestop, now Brunswick Co.? Is he just working everywhere or job hopping?

That's one hell of a journey. Didn't he also work in a fast food chain once?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

To each there own. But I disagree. I find the cereal box bandicoot more likely given everything. But that all falls to preference.

Crash's chances I feel has been really overrated alongside Dante's. This demand only began sparking up more when the N. Sane Trilogy was announced a few years back. This is coming from someone who wants Crash more than Ryu Hayabusa.

Although it's still possible for him as the negotiations of 5 years for Steve shows and his legacy as an icon and mascot which would be enough for Nintendo to go for then just requests.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

That's one hell of a journey. Didn't he also work in a fast food chain once?

Held executive marketing roles at Pizza Hut and Panda Express.

 

[Cosmic77]

This would make more sense if there haven't been several SNK guest appearances prior to Terry in Smash.

Like what? Nintendo's collaborated with dozens of different franchises, many of which aren't on the roster. Why did they choose Fatal Futy specifically when every other third-party DLC character offered so much more for them to gain?

That's why I believe Nintendo helped Sakurai get a character he wanted. Maybe he floated the idea to them and they didn't have a problem with it. Honestly, I'd be more inclined to believe that than Nintendo choosing Terry without Sakurai saying a word.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Ryu Hayabusa is a popular NES icon, just as Terry is an icon from 90’s arcades. lts a shame young people don’t recognize this characters nowdays . Its the same as people who says that likes (rock) music and don’t know who Duane Allman is.

 

[Louie G.]

You know as much as I love Unbreakable Determination, I've been listening to the classic Ninja Gaiden OST and I must say it's chock full of catchy bangers.

This one is probably my favorite. These remixes have so much potential to be awesome, and knowing the Smash sound team... they will be.

 

[Goombaic]

Like what?

The collaborations were already listed.

Sakurai didn't force a pattern involving Mai in DoA, Geese in Tekken, Haohmaru in Soulcalibur...

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Reggie is going everywhere!

I thought he was at Cornell, then Gamestop, now Brunswick Co.? Is he just working everywhere or job hopping?

He's sailing the open seas.

 

[JOJONumber691]

My main thought stems from this. We only ever started considering Ryu because of a leak. Nothing more. He is so high on the list of "possibles" because of said leak. I dont remember him on polls, I dont remember him in standard conversation until that leak. When I also look at the characters we have.

Joker - Sega/Atlus
Banjo/Steve - Microsoft
Terry - SNK
MinMin/Byleth/Plant - Nintendo
Hero - Square

Now. Conjecture time.
I personally think Joker was picked because P5 was big and Sega/Atlus wanted some sweet advertising. Likewise, I see Hero as a packaged deal with cloud. For Microsoft, given the fan demand for Banjo, I see they doing the 2 for 1 deal with Banjo/Steve. Nintendo owns its characters, with the main 2 we have being promos. That leaves Terry. I say that is Sakurai Bias.

When we look at FP1, we have Joker/Byleth which has some, but not lots of support. We look at Hero and Banjo, whom had TONS of support. and we see Terry, who had Sakurai support. In FP2. we have MinMin and Steve, which had Nintendo support.

and that is where I look at it. Nintendo support. What characters did nintendo see fit. Last 3 have felt like Nintendo mandates (not complaining. I like MinMin and Steve)., I personally cannot see Ryu as a nintendo mandate. I just cannot. He is the same level as Arthur from Ghost and Goblins, or Joe from Shinobi. From hard games that people played a million times because of jank. He is no more likely then say the Contra duo.

Terry probably had some influence from Sakurai, but considering how willing SNK is to let their characters into other Fighting Games, I would'nt be surprised if that, particualrly with Tekken 7, that helped with narrowing down Terry's Inclusion.

 

[SKX31]

I am amused at the image of Nintendo letting Sakurai have Terry in via a Faustian bargain.

"So I get Bogard, what do I have to do in exchange?"

"Oh nothing significant, just make a moveset for a certain... Microsoft character."

The Nintendo executive walks out bellowing evil laughter

5 / 10 needs more glass adjustment.

The collaborations were already listed.

Those were probably SNK (and their new parent 37 Games) doing their damndest to make sure SNK was active again and in the news.

Credit to them, the gambit succeeded.

 

[Cosmic77]

The collaborations were already listed.

What does any of this have to do with Smash though? SNK could collaborate with hundreds of franchises, but that still wouldn't explain why Nintendo themselves would be interested. All this does is show that SNK is willing to put their characters in other games, and that probably applies to plenty of other companies too. Who wouldn't want their characters in Smash and make a profit out of it?

If SNK characters were frequently making appearances in Nintendo games or Nintendo characters in SNK games, then that would explain why Nintendo may have wanted Terry. Why would Nintendo show an interest in Terry just because Mai was in DoA and Geese was in Tekken?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What does any of this have to do with Smash though? SNK could collaborate with hundreds of franchises, but that still wouldn't explain why Nintendo themselves would be interested.

If SNK characters were frequently making appearances in Nintendo games or Nintendo characters in SNK games, then that would explain why Nintendo may have wanted Terry. Why would Nintendo show an interest in Terry just because Mai was in DoA and Geese was in Tekken?

Because Nintendo may have seen how excited people were seeing SNK crossovers and went "Oh **** we want in on that". Not everything needs to be tied solely to Nintendo, Brawl promoted a ps3/360 game quite heavily after all

 

[JOJONumber691]

SNK is Massive in Latin America alongside the Fighting Game Community also being important New Markets for Nintendo.

 

[SneakyLink]

Because Nintendo may have seen how excited people were seeing SNK crossovers and went "Oh **** we want in on that". Not everything needs to be tied solely to Nintendo, Brawl promoted a ps3/360 game quite heavily after all

Didn't Brawl basically allude to events in MGS4 a few months before that game came out (and had a remix of one of that game's themes?

But yeah, not every character has to be 100% Nintendo focused or have their origin on a Nintendo console, if that were true then Joker and both MS characters may not have happened (not the best examples but they were the ones off the top of my head).

 

[JOJONumber691]

Coughs in Cloud.

 

[Schnee117]

SNK being in a bunch of crossovers shows they're incredibly easy to work with, honestly it could well be that they approached Nintendo about Smash with how eager they were to let Sakurai and his team use their content.

Didn't Brawl basically allude to events in MGS4 a few months before that game came out (and had a remix of one of that game's themes?

But yeah, not every character has to be 100% Nintendo focused or have their origin on a Nintendo console, if that were true then Joker and both MS characters may not have happened (not the best examples but they were the ones off the top of my head).

Yeah, the Gekko and RAY being on Shadow Moses is spoilers for MGS4's fourth act.

 

[SharkLord]

In that case, can he choose Sakura Shinguji if Nintendo offers him a SEGA character? Please?

Ryu Hayabusa is a popular NES icon, just as Terry is an icon from 90’s arcades. lts a shame young people don’t recognize this characters nowdays . Its the same as people who says that likes (rock) music and don’t know who Duane Allman is.

I'm getting my rock privileges revoked aren't I

 

[Cosmic77]

Because Nintendo may have seen how excited people were seeing SNK crossovers and went "Oh **** we want in on that". Not everything needs to be tied solely to Nintendo, Brawl promoted a ps3/360 game quite heavily after all

That's still a huge leap of logic IMO. None of this really helps Fatal Fury specifically stand out from other franchises that have done similar things and had one of their characters guest star in a different game. You could use the same argument for someone like Phoenix Wright.

Sakurai liking Fatal Fury is something that gives it an advantage over other franchises, much like how Microsoft collaborating with Nintendo more often gave Banjo and Steve an advantage. Much like how DQ's long history on Nintendo consoles probably gave it an advantage. Joker is less obvious, but we're already seeing the effects; Atlas put out a poll asking fans which games they'd like to see on the Switch.

Not everything has to be associated with Nintendo to get in Smash, but given the size of Fatal Fury and how it's one of the more obscure third-parties in Smash, I don't think there's really anything more indicative of Nintendo wanting Terry than Sakurai liking it and Fatal Fury's ties with Smash's origins. Like I said before, "'X character' was chosen because their company puts their characters in a lot of different games," could be applied to a lot of companies, not just SNK.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Also, any of you know what Dungeon Fighter Online is? Just a general survey because it relates to a character I view as an underdog in Speculation.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

"Sakurai should of added the song yaldabaoth instead of that slow slong that comes after"

"But that's a spoiler"

"Our Beginning is literally the 2nd half of the final boss"

 

[Idon]

Also, any of you know what Dungeon Fighter Online is? Just a general survey because it relates to a character I view as an underdog in Speculation.

Yeah I used to play it years ago.
Was a monk main so it was quite fun to slam a totem into the ground and do fighting game combos as a buff priest.

 

[cashregister9]

Also, any of you know what Dungeon Fighter Online is? Just a general survey because it relates to a character I view as an underdog in Speculation.

I've played it for a bit

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Yeah I used to play it years ago.
Was a monk main so it was quite fun to slam a totem into the ground and do fighting game combos as a buff priest.

wasnt Dungeon Fighter Online by Nexon because the only game I played from them was Maplestory

 

[CureParfait]

Where does this possibility stem from? Kind of curious.

It stemmed from hearing that Nintendo is picking the characters for the Fighters Pass. Also that makes me feel like there isn't a 100 % guarantee it would be Sol first then Ragna depending on how Nintendo feels on that matter.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It stemmed from hearing that Nintendo is picking the characters for the Fighters Pass. Also that makes me feel like there isn't a 100 % guarantee it would be Sol first then Ragna depending on how Nintendo feels on that matter.

Would there be a reason for Nintendo wanting to choose Ragna over Sol? Something that is has to do with the whole "For good boys and girls only"?

 

[7NATOR]

While I do think Nintendo has the Final say to whether a Character will be in the FP2, I think you guys are giving Sakurai too little Credit

I don't think there's just a list Nintendo gives or anything. It's probably a Long Discussion at the deciding Table, discussing which Obviously Sakurai would have a huge Part in. While I think Nintendo has Certain Characters in Mind (like Steve and Hero, and a character from a game people are playing now) That they absolutely want to include, I don't think Nintendo is the only one bringing forth ideas.

I do think for some characters, Sakurai probably is the one that intiates the discussion, like with Joker and Terry. Yes Nintendo needs to see why they be a viable chose, because if they don't allow it, that's that. If they do allow it, that's Technically still Nintendo choosing the DLC, because they have to allow the character to be made

 

[SKX31]

wasnt Dungeon Fighter Online by Nexon because the only game I played from them was Maplestory

Yeah: DFO's made by Neople, which is now a subsidiary of Nexon.

Nexon's HQ has been located in Tokyo since 2005 - interestingly - although Nexon was founded in Seoul and still operate a lot of their games from there (their Korean branch). Still, Nexon's HQ being in Tokyo might help if Sakurai / Nintendo are working with Nexon (keyword being if). Both from a language perspective and considering the working from home environment.

 

[drag0nscythe]

While I do think Nintendo has the Final say to whether a Character will be in the FP2, I think you guys are giving Sakurai too little Credit

I don't think there's just a list Nintendo gives or anything. It's probably a Long Discussion at the deciding Table, discussing which Obviously Sakurai would have a huge Part in. While I think Nintendo has Certain Characters in Mind (like Steve and Hero, and a character from a game people are playing now) That they absolutely want to include, I don't think Nintendo is the only one bringing forth ideas.

I do think for some characters, Sakurai probably is the one that intiates the discussion, like with Joker and Terry. Yes Nintendo needs to see why they be a viable chose, because if they don't allow it, that's that. If they do allow it, that's Technically still Nintendo choosing the DLC, because they have to allow the character to be made

And in most programming pipelines, even though the client dictates the requirements (IE Nintendo says what they want), it is a cyclic process and I am sure the developer (Sakurai) circles back until the right product is made.

 

[SNEKeater]

That's still a huge leap of logic IMO. None of this really helps Fatal Fury specifically stand out from other franchises that have done similar things and had one of their characters guest star in a different game. You could use the same argument for someone like Phoenix Wright.

Sakurai liking Fatal Fury is something that gives it an advantage over other franchises, much like how Microsoft collaborating with Nintendo more often gave Banjo and Steve an advantage. Much like how DQ's long history on Nintendo consoles probably gave it an advantage. Joker is less obvious, but we're already seeing the effects; Atlas put out a poll asking fans which games they'd like to see on the Switch.

Not everything has to be associated with Nintendo to get in Smash, but given the size of Fatal Fury and how it's one of the more obscure third-parties in Smash, I don't think there's really anything more indicative of Nintendo wanting Terry than Sakurai liking it and Fatal Fury's ties with Smash's origins. Like I said before, "'X character' was chosen because their company puts their characters in a lot of different games," could be applied to a lot of companies, not just SNK.

First of all we don't even know if Nintendo said "we want Terry". What it is sure is that they wanted a SNK character, so assuming they didn't stick to a certain character, they approached Sakurai, which obviously was okay with the idea, and then approached SNK, which were cooperative as well.
Nintendo didn't seem to care which ARMS character had to be chosen as well, so there's that. I just think each character case is different.

And well, it's not like Sakurai just likes Fatal Fury or SNK games when it comes to games. I could see your point if he was someone who likes very few series and said series ended getting characters or a lot of content in Smash. But we know that's not the case. He liked Nier Automata and praised Ace Attorney back then, to mention 2 examples, and so far we don't have 2B or Phoenix Wright in the roster.

 

[SharkLord]

Would there be a reason for Nintendo wanting to choose Ragna over Sol? Something that is has to do with the whole "For good boys and girls only"?

From what I can gather, Guilty Gear is older, but BlazBlue came to prominence first. For a while, GG was stuck in cult classic-ville, and the rights were stuck with Sammy. This forced ArcSys to make a spiritual successor instead, which they did by taking their RPG idea and turning it into what is now BlazBlue. Apparently, it help revitalize interest in fighting games, alongside Street Fighter IV. That being said, Guilty Gear has been rapidly gaining in popularity, thanks to Xrd, ArcSys gaining popularity through FighterZ, and the reveal or Strive. From the looks of it, BlazBlue's receding for Guilty Gear to take hold. My bet's on Sol, but it's possible ArcSys and/or Nintendo could decide the era of BlazBlue isn't over just yet.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

L

That's still a huge leap of logic IMO. None of this really helps Fatal Fury specifically stand out from other franchises that have done similar things and had one of their characters guest star in a different game. You could use the same argument for someone like Phoenix Wright.

Sakurai liking Fatal Fury is something that gives it an advantage over other franchises, much like how Microsoft collaborating with Nintendo more often gave Banjo and Steve an advantage. Much like how DQ's long history on Nintendo consoles probably gave it an advantage. Joker is less obvious, but we're already seeing the effects; Atlas put out a poll asking fans which games they'd like to see on the Switch.

Not everything has to be associated with Nintendo to get in Smash, but given the size of Fatal Fury and how it's one of the more obscure third-parties in Smash, I don't think there's really anything more indicative of Nintendo wanting Terry than Sakurai liking it and Fatal Fury's ties with Smash's origins. Like I said before, "'X character' was chosen because their company puts their characters in a lot of different games," could be applied to a lot of companies, not just SNK.

I think I see the issues here. See, you're looking at Terry as just Fatal Fury when he's KoF more than anything, including how his gameplay is very reflective of KoF's freeform combos, not to mention that those guest characters from SNK all originate from Fatal Fury anyway. Besides, I fail to see Pheonix Wright having any circumstances even remotelt similar to "crossing over with some of the biggest names in the genre". Especially when SNK's so influential that they gave us parrying, super moves, 3v3 fighters, crossovers and most notably, this weird Nintendo game with Mario and Pikachu, not sure if you've ever heard of it though, especially as you're denying KoF's existance entirely in that post. If I had a penny for every time people dismissed Terry's inclusion I'd have enough money to buy a new Switch, new copy of Ultimate and all the DLC