Shroob
Sup?
Saber as in Fate Saber?
I don't think I've ever heard anyone bring up violence of all things against Saber, especially since outside the VNs/Anime/Manga, the series isn't overtly violent.
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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion
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I don't think I've ever heard anyone bring up violence of all things against Saber, especially since outside the VNs/Anime/Manga, the series isn't overtly violent.
MooMew64
sometimes here, sometimes there
Ryu is really strange to me. He's been tossed around for so long now that I assumed he was either leakbait, or just a guess from people who may have had info at one time but then threw something random out there in hopes they could keep that leaker street cred going.
I'm leaning a little more towards him being in at the moment, but I'll also admit the road to getting him is gonna be strange with how long he's been floating around. Anyone remember when he first got mentioned? Was it around the time FP2 could have still been negotiating characters?
Shroob
Sup?
I 'believe' that the first mention of Ryu Hayabusa was from the YouTube user IamShifty, back on August 30th, 2019.
MooMew64
sometimes here, sometimes there
Was it in the form of a leak or speculation? If it's a leak with an actual source, then that might be interesting. For some reason, I thought I remembered VR Plant was the first one to bring him up...
Shroob
Sup?
You're remembering wrong iirc.
I don't remember all the stuff around it personally, but there's a lot of videos still up on the subject.
Here's the Wiki page on it:
List of rumors
A rumor is a statement or story that gains traction within popular discourse but lacks sufficient verifiable evidence to be confirmed or denied. Like many other games, the Super Smash Bros. series has had various rumors spread about it, usually...
www.ssbwiki.com
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KillerCage
Smash Master
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This I got to see!
The Stoopid Unikorn
Spiciest of Guacamoles
It's not because of the violence.
They're pointing out the hypocrisy of people accepting Mortal Kombat because of the violence, but outright refuse to even consider Saber because one and only literally one game ever classified as an eroge (aka erotic VN).
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Shroob
Sup?
cashregister9
Smash Hero
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I think they meant how people immediately dismiss Saber because the original release of Fate/Stay Night was Eroge
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JamesDNaux
Smash Hero
It's a miracle that Banjo is in Smash as is, but part of me will always wonder "what if Rare never left" and yearn for Mumbo and Grunty as fighters. Realistically speaking, I'm baffled that there's no variation of Grunty's theme and wish there were at least Mumbo and Grunty Mii costumes but again, I'm glad for anything.
I won't be happy with Rayman's representation until he's playable but he went from three trophies to one PNG so that sucks.
Like Banjo, I'm just glad Snake is back, but I'll forever want new codecs for every character
Unlike most people, I think Zelda is pretty well represented outside of the glaring flaw of Ganondorf not being true to himself, I don't care about any of the one-off characters enough to actually want them in Smash besides maybe Midna. My other gripe is Link losing his iconic green tunic (no that awful wild set is not an adequate replacement) and clawshot, also unlike most I really miss when the triforce trio all matched, bring back Twilight Princess...
Xenoblade is in a weird spot as well for me where it absolutely deserves another character but I don't care for either option. Only other things I'd have to complain about are the lack of remixes and Shulk being massively out of character even via how he plays, but it works.
The rest of my absolute favorite franchises aren't in Smash and probably never will be and if I started listing smaller favorites I'd be here all day.
The Stoopid Unikorn
Spiciest of Guacamoles
Either way, the franchise is anything but that these daysTwo, actually.
Yes, I know my ****.
What's next? People wishing for Bayonetta to be cut due to having used Playboy in its marketing? People wanting every Nintendo character removed because the company used to do love hotels?
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Shroob
Sup?
I mean, considering some of the backlash I've seen on Minecraft being in Smash not because of Minecraft itself, but it's creator,
Yeah, I can see that reality actually.
The Stoopid Unikorn
Spiciest of Guacamoles
HOW DARE THEY MAKE LOVE HOTELS BEFORE MAKING GAMES?! BOYCOTT NINTENDO FOR SOMETHING THEY STOPPED DOING BEFORE I WAS BORN!I mean, considering some of the backlash I've seen on Minecraft being in Smash not because of Minecraft itself, but it's creator,
Yeah, I can see that reality actually.
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The Playboy thing probably isn't a good example because Nintendo was the one who actually promoted the idea.
...But yeah, the other comparisons work. It's dumb. So what if it originated as something odd. That speaks nothing of the merits or uniqueness of the character options anyway. Saber, Scorpion, etc. would be pretty cool characters anyway.
Besides, Nintendo used to run love hotels. They aren't going to care about its origin as an eroge as long as it's not the only thing it is. It's a more proper game about battling and such, and even the original, despite being an eroge, wasn't just an excuse plot anyway. It actually still was about battling and just happened to have sex options as part of it. A lot of games have less wholesome stuff. That can be removed for Smash while still keeping the important stuff.
Frankly, getting the violence down well is far harder for Mortal Kombat characters than it would be to just spruce up some characters so they aren't too revealing. Well, for non-cameos anyway(Mai not being in her iconic outfit, when she's just a cameo? It ain't worth the effort and licensing. Playable characters are actually worth it). And so on.
...You would ninja my point about Love Hotels. XD
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MooMew64
sometimes here, sometimes there
First mention of Ryu I see here is from a 5channel leak, interestingly enough, alongside Steve.You're remembering wrong iirc.
I don't remember all the stuff around it personally, but there's a lot of videos still up on the subject.
Here's the Wiki page on it:
List of rumors
A rumor is a statement or story that gains traction within popular discourse but lacks sufficient verifiable evidence to be confirmed or denied. Like many other games, the Super Smash Bros. series has had various rumors spread about it, usually...
Definitely a coincidence, but still interesting nonetheless. Thanks for the link, this'll make for a fun read and will help with the speculation piece I'm slowly writing.
SpectreJordan
Smash Lord
I feel Commander Shepard could’ve joined those ranks if EA didn’t absolutely bungle the Mass Effect franchise this gen. The Mass Effect trilogy are some of the most beloved games of the 7th generation. They’re still looked on incredibly fondly to this day, often being included on best games/RPGs ever lists.
But the fact that there hasn’t been a major (good) release since 2012 makes Mass Effect seems like a one-gen wonder, similar to series like Jak & Daxter or Sly Cooper (Damn you Sony). If they had kept the pace & quality up, I feel the series would’ve been one of the gaming giants & perhaps even seen as a likely Smash candidate. I wish Microsoft had bought Bioware instead of EA.
Maybe that was the first mention from a major leaker, but his name was definitely flying around before then. I remember hearing his name a lot in early 2019, alongside Steve.
Shroob
Sup?
Shifty's leak from days gone by is.... weird, to say the least, because it's not like info in regards to the base game roster of Smash Ult wasn't VERY well known to leakers, so him 'calling' Ken, Incin, and Isabelle really doesn't do a whole lot for me.
Brew's thing is a little different, but the thing is, Plant leaked, we 100% know this due to the 4chan post and the Reddit post, so Brew gives me a big pause.
The thing that makes me stop and look is NateDrake, who 'seemingly' feels confident that Hayabusa is next, but again, we don't know if he's actually 100% on board the Hayabusa is happening next train, or if that was just speculation on his part.
Brew's thing is a little different, but the thing is, Plant leaked, we 100% know this due to the 4chan post and the Reddit post, so Brew gives me a big pause.
The thing that makes me stop and look is NateDrake, who 'seemingly' feels confident that Hayabusa is next, but again, we don't know if he's actually 100% on board the Hayabusa is happening next train, or if that was just speculation on his part.
MooMew64
sometimes here, sometimes there
Does Nate specify whenever he's leaking or speculating? If he's leaking this, he's being pretty brazen about something still pretty decently a ways away, as these DLC characters have only been leaking like, right before their reveal as you said earlier.
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Shroob
Sup?
We don't know. He just said "Next up, Ryu Hayabusa" and didn't elaborate.
That's due to the 5Channel rumor, which has been pretty sizably debunked now due to a lot of other things it got wrong.
MooMew64
sometimes here, sometimes there
What gives me pause with Nate though is the fact, by his own admission if I'm remembering correctly, he has a habit of assuming things based off of limited info sometimes. A part of me is wondering if he's only saying this because Verge popped back up and talked about Koei Tecmo, but that might be too tinfoil hat and overthinking it.
Either way, even without leaks I'm starting to think Ryu is looking good, especially without Ryza being in the running any more. Time will tell, I suppose, but if he isn't CP8, that might be a little sus on his chances. Not a deconfirm obviously, but I'll admit I'll start to doubt just a bit.
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Y'all asked for it. Hopefully I don't disappoint.
So earlier today I was discussing Smash with a few friends in Discord, and the subject of the Minecraft x Smash conversation popped up. With recent articles coming about suggesting that Minecraft crossing over into Smash has been in the works for roughly 5 years, that kinda took over the conversation. This sounds crazy! 5 years for 1 character? That said I think there's a different way to look at this, as well as some other rumors around as well.
Thinking back to when banjo was first revealed, Craig Duncan (thanks
Dinoman96
) said the following:
Now, let's change our focus. Ryu Hayabusa has been rumored for quite some time with Smash. His existence in fake leaks has essentially become memetic, showing up in damn near every leak. The most interesting one was from IAmShifty, who first revealed that he had heard Ryu Hayabusa was "in" through a YouTube video. This has yet to come to pass. IAmShifty evidently has a record with correct leaks, including Ken, Incineroar, and Isabelle being the last 3 characters (I myself can vouch for this, as I had been given similar information from sources). Recently, Vergeben himself has claimed that Koei Tecmo has been in talks with Smash, but nothing specifically about Hayabusa himself. With Ryza recently disconfirmed by the developers of Atelier, it seems more likely than not that Hayabusa would be the pick (though there IS still DoA, though I kinda doubt it).
Even more recently, NateDrake Tweeted about Ryu Hayabusa as the "next" Smash pick. This one is shaky, as the person is question has stumbled a bit with information. This is also unknown as either a hint or just idle speculation.
Side note- remember when Bethesda said they'd "been in talks with Nintendo about Smash"? This may be important in a moment. Also, think about how Dragon Quest supposedly got pushed back from base roster (though I'm a bit more shaky on that one and haven't been able to confirm that).
So what does it all mean? Bear with me, because this probably isn't the STRONGEST case, but that's why it's a tinfoil hat Jonespost!
The latest reports, and some speculation, seem to suggest that there were additional plans alongside the original Fighter Pass framework. If Steve was a part of the Banjo deal, but not a part of Volume 1, then it suggests that, at one point, additional fighters were planned outside of the Fighters Pass, potentially having us look at a Fighters Pass + individual packs scenario which has been floated around once in awhile. If rumors are legitimate, that would give us two individual packs of Steve Minecraft and Ryu Hayabusa. Furthermore, if Bethesda was approached by Nintendo in "some capacity" for Smash, that explains why we got Vault Boy in the last update.
But what about Min Min? Well, if you take a look at base game, while we got Spring Man and minimal ARMS content...we never got a stage or music. This raises the possibility that, while it was too late for base game, it might have been saved for eventual DLC if they decided upon a Volume 2, which obviously we now have. This means that Byleth would have never been planned as the "last" DLC character and that Nintendo had an inkling (heh) of continuing DLC past Volume 1 prior to the beginning of development. We have no timeline of events, so we don't really know when Sakurai visited Atlus as opposed to meeting with Microsoft or playing Three Houses, or for that matter acquiring Steve or hypothetically Hayabusa.
Is this to say that ALL fighters were decided at this point? No, actually I don't even think that's my point. I would say my point is more that, potentially, half of this pass was held off, thus suggesting that Volume 2 was in the making earlier than we first thought. What it means for future picks, I can't say. But it explains the 5 year negotiations, the strange comment about Minecraft (a leak in front of our own eyes this whole time?) as well as the constant existence in rumor purgatory of Ryu Hayabusa for like 3 years.
One other thing to note as a reminder from
Shroob
: The 16 additional roster slots added in files post-launch also seem to suggest that DLC after Volume 1 was planned far in advance.
So earlier today I was discussing Smash with a few friends in Discord, and the subject of the Minecraft x Smash conversation popped up. With recent articles coming about suggesting that Minecraft crossing over into Smash has been in the works for roughly 5 years, that kinda took over the conversation. This sounds crazy! 5 years for 1 character? That said I think there's a different way to look at this, as well as some other rumors around as well.
Thinking back to when banjo was first revealed, Craig Duncan (thanks
Dinoman96
) said the following:Note how the speaker says, "Minecraft had paved the way". If it's actually even partially true that the plan with Steve was a number of years in the making, then is it possible that Steve was actually acquired before Banjo? The first read we all had, contextually, was just "Minecraft on Switch". This, however, would beg the question as to why Steve wasn't in Volume 1, which I do not have an answer for. At least not yet.
Now, let's change our focus. Ryu Hayabusa has been rumored for quite some time with Smash. His existence in fake leaks has essentially become memetic, showing up in damn near every leak. The most interesting one was from IAmShifty, who first revealed that he had heard Ryu Hayabusa was "in" through a YouTube video. This has yet to come to pass. IAmShifty evidently has a record with correct leaks, including Ken, Incineroar, and Isabelle being the last 3 characters (I myself can vouch for this, as I had been given similar information from sources). Recently, Vergeben himself has claimed that Koei Tecmo has been in talks with Smash, but nothing specifically about Hayabusa himself. With Ryza recently disconfirmed by the developers of Atelier, it seems more likely than not that Hayabusa would be the pick (though there IS still DoA, though I kinda doubt it).
Even more recently, NateDrake Tweeted about Ryu Hayabusa as the "next" Smash pick. This one is shaky, as the person is question has stumbled a bit with information. This is also unknown as either a hint or just idle speculation.
Side note- remember when Bethesda said they'd "been in talks with Nintendo about Smash"? This may be important in a moment. Also, think about how Dragon Quest supposedly got pushed back from base roster (though I'm a bit more shaky on that one and haven't been able to confirm that).
So what does it all mean? Bear with me, because this probably isn't the STRONGEST case, but that's why it's a tinfoil hat Jonespost!
The latest reports, and some speculation, seem to suggest that there were additional plans alongside the original Fighter Pass framework. If Steve was a part of the Banjo deal, but not a part of Volume 1, then it suggests that, at one point, additional fighters were planned outside of the Fighters Pass, potentially having us look at a Fighters Pass + individual packs scenario which has been floated around once in awhile. If rumors are legitimate, that would give us two individual packs of Steve Minecraft and Ryu Hayabusa. Furthermore, if Bethesda was approached by Nintendo in "some capacity" for Smash, that explains why we got Vault Boy in the last update.
But what about Min Min? Well, if you take a look at base game, while we got Spring Man and minimal ARMS content...we never got a stage or music. This raises the possibility that, while it was too late for base game, it might have been saved for eventual DLC if they decided upon a Volume 2, which obviously we now have. This means that Byleth would have never been planned as the "last" DLC character and that Nintendo had an inkling (heh) of continuing DLC past Volume 1 prior to the beginning of development. We have no timeline of events, so we don't really know when Sakurai visited Atlus as opposed to meeting with Microsoft or playing Three Houses, or for that matter acquiring Steve or hypothetically Hayabusa.
Is this to say that ALL fighters were decided at this point? No, actually I don't even think that's my point. I would say my point is more that, potentially, half of this pass was held off, thus suggesting that Volume 2 was in the making earlier than we first thought. What it means for future picks, I can't say. But it explains the 5 year negotiations, the strange comment about Minecraft (a leak in front of our own eyes this whole time?) as well as the constant existence in rumor purgatory of Ryu Hayabusa for like 3 years.
One other thing to note as a reminder from
Shroob
: The 16 additional roster slots added in files post-launch also seem to suggest that DLC after Volume 1 was planned far in advance.
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SNEKeater
Smash Master
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Nate's tweet about Hayabusa was probably your usual hype comment. In other words, he wants Hayabusa. He might know that Hayabusa's in, which I doubt (not that he's playable but the fact that he knows a character is in when they have just announced Steve), but I always understood his tweet that way. It's not like he's saying "I can confirm Hayabusa is the next character".
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Shroob
Sup?
I mean, you could also just say the fact that they added way more placeholder slots in with Plant's update than necessary was always kinda suspicious.
Sure, we couldn't say that there would be more DLC after the first pass, and I can at least understand the thought of putting in a couple slots just in case.... but 16 of them? 10 more than necessary?
To me, it seems like they were very obviously planning more than just 1 wave of DLC since the beginning, it's kinda obvious in hindsight, and while I have 0 idea if all 16 spots will get filled, it does kinda make it obvious that it was never just going to be ONE pass.
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Dinoman96
Smash Master
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Just a correction, it was Craig Duncan that said Minecraft build the relationship between Nintendo and MS. Steve Mayles hasn't worked at Rare for years.
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Who saved Rare?
Eight years ago, Eurogamer printed the article 'Who killed Rare?'It was a sad read for fans of the studio. It came at a…
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SharkLord
Smash Hero
Yeah, it does make it seem as if Nintendo always wanted multiple characters. Still, I'm not sure if the pass itself was laid out in advance beyond a rough outline. There's also the fact that Steve most likely wasn't planned that far in advance, only that talks were beginning. Still, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch that Steve was the first character of this pass to be negotiated, even though they're not the first to be added. I'd imagine he might've been decided for FP2 in the same deal that got Banjo for FP1, much like how Cloud and Hero were negotiated simultaneously but were added in different games.
MooMew64
sometimes here, sometimes there
A part of me is still wondering if the extra slots might be given to more low-key characters and echoes without full on character packs. Basically, like small bonuses at the end of this game's content updates.
Probably not likely, but a neat idea nonetheless.
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CapitaineCrash
Smash Champion
If the characters was chosen that early, that would hurt a lot Rex's chances (among others), because we originally thought that rex could have a second chance with a second pass, but perhaps it was all planned since the begining that Xenoblade 2 would have a costume and 3 music? Or maybe some characters where hold off like Min min and Steve, but some others weren't chosen that early.Y'all asked for it. Hopefully I don't disappoint.
So earlier today I was discussing Smash with a few friends in Discord, and the subject of the Minecraft x Smash conversation popped up. With recent articles coming about suggesting that Minecraft crossing over into Smash has been in the works for roughly 5 years, that kinda took over the conversation. This sounds crazy! 5 years for 1 character? That said I think there's a different way to look at this, as well as some other rumors around as well.
Thinking back to when banjo was first revealed, Craig Duncan (thanks
Note how the speaker says, "Minecraft had paved the way". If it's actually even partially true that the plan with Steve was a number of years in the making, then is it possible that Steve was actually acquired before Banjo? The first read we all had, contextually, was just "Minecraft on Switch". This, however, would beg the question as to why Steve wasn't in Volume 1, which I do not have an answer for. At least not yet.
Now, let's change our focus. Ryu Hayabusa has been rumored for quite some time with Smash. His existence in fake leaks has essentially become memetic, showing up in damn near every leak. The most interesting one was from IAmShifty, who first revealed that he had heard Ryu Hayabusa was "in" through a YouTube video. This has yet to come to pass. IAmShifty evidently has a record with correct leaks, including Ken, Incineroar, and Isabelle being the last 3 characters (I myself can vouch for this, as I had been given similar information from sources). Recently, Vergeben himself has claimed that Koei Tecmo has been in talks with Smash, but nothing specifically about Hayabusa himself. With Ryza recently disconfirmed by the developers of Atelier, it seems more likely than not that Hayabusa would be the pick (though there IS still DoA, though I kinda doubt it).
Even more recently, NateDrake Tweeted about Ryu Hayabusa as the "next" Smash pick. This one is shaky, as the person is question has stumbled a bit with information. This is also unknown as either a hint or just idle speculation.
Side note- remember when Bethesda said they'd "been in talks with Nintendo about Smash"? This may be important in a moment. Also, think about how Dragon Quest supposedly got pushed back from base roster (though I'm a bit more shaky on that one and haven't been able to confirm that).
So what does it all mean? Bear with me, because this probably isn't the STRONGEST case, but that's why it's a tinfoil hat Jonespost!
The latest reports, and some speculation, seem to suggest that there were additional plans alongside the original Fighter Pass framework. If Steve was a part of the Banjo deal, but not a part of Volume 1, then it suggests that, at one point, additional fighters were planned outside of the Fighters Pass, potentially having us look at a Fighters Pass + individual packs scenario which has been floated around once in awhile. If rumors are legitimate, that would give us two individual packs of Steve Minecraft and Ryu Hayabusa. Furthermore, if Bethesda was approached by Nintendo in "some capacity" for Smash, that explains why we got Vault Boy in the last update.
But what about Min Min? Well, if you take a look at base game, while we got Spring Man and minimal ARMS content...we never got a stage or music. This raises the possibility that, while it was too late for base game, it might have been saved for eventual DLC if they decided upon a Volume 2, which obviously we now have. This means that Byleth would have never been planned as the "last" DLC character and that Nintendo had an inkling (heh) of continuing DLC past Volume 1 prior to the beginning of development. We have no timeline of events, so we don't really know when Sakurai visited Atlus as opposed to meeting with Microsoft or playing Three Houses, or for that matter acquiring Steve or hypothetically Hayabusa.
Is this to say that ALL fighters were decided at this point? No, actually I don't even think that's my point. I would say my point is more that, potentially, half of this pass was held off, thus suggesting that Volume 2 was in the making earlier than we first thought. What it means for future picks, I can't say. But it explains the 5 year negotiations, the strange comment about Minecraft (a leak in front of our own eyes this whole time?) as well as the constant existence in rumor purgatory of Ryu Hayabusa for like 3 years.
One other thing to note as a reminder from
Shroob
Sup?
Via hacking, the roster 'can' currently accommodate 91 slots before crashing(86 characters+these 4 bonus slots+random)A part of me is still wondering if the extra slots might be given to more low-key characters and echoes without full on character packs. Basically, like small bonuses at the end of this game's content updates.
Probably not likely, but a neat idea nonetheless.
The question is, if these 4 slots end up being characters, how would they be distributed. I can't really imagine a pass with only 4 characters, though it's not impossible either. I'd love more Echoes, but Sakurai's been completely silent on Echoes since he claimed the first pass wouldn't have any.
Guybrush20X6
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So according to still living rumors we've got a league of Legends character, Ryu Hiabusa and Crash coming to Smash.
Any more I missed?
Any more I missed?
GoodGrief741
Smash Legend
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I don't think that comparison works at all because, for better or worse, Western culture has completely different standards toward violence than it does toward sexual content. You can get away with tons of violent content for young audiences (see: modern PG-13 movies, to the point that even stuff like Die Hard and RoboCop is now PG-13), whereas simple association with sexual content can get you in a lot of trouble.
If you wanna blame anyone for the hypocrisy, blame those social norms, not the people who are just speculating about what Nintendo could and couldn't get away with.
chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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Weird question, but if I were to talk about the idea of Ajna from Indivisible being playable in Smash, would that be a valid excuse to vent about how much of a horrible human being Mike Z is? Because HOO BOY, I need someone to vent to after what happened today...
Dinoman96
Smash Master
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Banjo & Kazooie really do now feel like a by-product of the long going negotiations for Minecraft in Smash. It seems like Nintendo obviously wanted Steve in first and foremost due to MC being the biggest game in the world and already having a lot of crossover with their IP/consoles, but they also probably decided to negotiate for B-K as well after seeing how well they did on the ballot and also Phil Spencer publicly pushing for it to happen.
I guess the one question in this case is why Nintendo decided to reveal/release Banjo first. Perhaps because they were easier to make than Steve, or just to have good will with their older core fanbase?
I guess the one question in this case is why Nintendo decided to reveal/release Banjo first. Perhaps because they were easier to make than Steve, or just to have good will with their older core fanbase?
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Shroob
Sup?
I feel like stuff like this would be more suited for the Serious Discussion board tbh.
chocolatejr9
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Alright, just wanted to make sure. Anybody have a link I can use?
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Frankly, while I'm sure I could get roasted for this, it makes me wonder what a "decided earlier than first thought" Volume 2 means for certain characters. I'm not gonna name names or anything, but I truly am curious.
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MooMew64
sometimes here, sometimes there
My thought was maybe a small bundle of Echoes offered for as a free update at the end. They wouldn't be echoes that change the gameplay of their base characters, they'd be like Daisy and Richter and basically be skins.
Dunno how likely this outcome really is, but the extra slots are weird and so specific that I'm half expecting them to do something with them. However, as I posted earlier today, Nintendo doesn't always make sense and they'll just dip from a game's postlaunch support for seemingly no reason sometimes, even though they made it seem like more could come.
For example: Mario Maker having the 3D World level theme be positioned in a way that left a gap in the theme selection screen is still super weird to me. Like...It was so perfectly designed to accommodate more themes, and they just...Dipped out after two updates they dropped a long while after release.
Shroob
Sup?
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You just go to the main forum, and scroll down until you see Serious Discussion.
Serious Discussion
For more serious topics generally not suitable for the main boards. Strictly moderated, users who demonstrate the ability to civilly discuss these topics here will be granted access to the Debate Hall.
smashboards.com
Alternatively, there's a general social thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/the-social-thread-2-0.507697/ and the Gaming subforum might also work: https://smashboards.com/forums/gaming.17/ (probably best to just pick one, rather than posting in all three of those places)
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What is this, math class?Teach....
C'mon....
You of all people know you're supposed to show your work.
Speed Weed
Smash Master
interesting finds for sureY'all asked for it. Hopefully I don't disappoint.
So earlier today I was discussing Smash with a few friends in Discord, and the subject of the Minecraft x Smash conversation popped up. With recent articles coming about suggesting that Minecraft crossing over into Smash has been in the works for roughly 5 years, that kinda took over the conversation. This sounds crazy! 5 years for 1 character? That said I think there's a different way to look at this, as well as some other rumors around as well.
Thinking back to when banjo was first revealed, Craig Duncan (thanks
Note how the speaker says, "Minecraft had paved the way". If it's actually even partially true that the plan with Steve was a number of years in the making, then is it possible that Steve was actually acquired before Banjo? The first read we all had, contextually, was just "Minecraft on Switch". This, however, would beg the question as to why Steve wasn't in Volume 1, which I do not have an answer for. At least not yet.
Now, let's change our focus. Ryu Hayabusa has been rumored for quite some time with Smash. His existence in fake leaks has essentially become memetic, showing up in damn near every leak. The most interesting one was from IAmShifty, who first revealed that he had heard Ryu Hayabusa was "in" through a YouTube video. This has yet to come to pass. IAmShifty evidently has a record with correct leaks, including Ken, Incineroar, and Isabelle being the last 3 characters (I myself can vouch for this, as I had been given similar information from sources). Recently, Vergeben himself has claimed that Koei Tecmo has been in talks with Smash, but nothing specifically about Hayabusa himself. With Ryza recently disconfirmed by the developers of Atelier, it seems more likely than not that Hayabusa would be the pick (though there IS still DoA, though I kinda doubt it).
Even more recently, NateDrake Tweeted about Ryu Hayabusa as the "next" Smash pick. This one is shaky, as the person is question has stumbled a bit with information. This is also unknown as either a hint or just idle speculation.
Side note- remember when Bethesda said they'd "been in talks with Nintendo about Smash"? This may be important in a moment. Also, think about how Dragon Quest supposedly got pushed back from base roster (though I'm a bit more shaky on that one and haven't been able to confirm that).
So what does it all mean? Bear with me, because this probably isn't the STRONGEST case, but that's why it's a tinfoil hat Jonespost!
The latest reports, and some speculation, seem to suggest that there were additional plans alongside the original Fighter Pass framework. If Steve was a part of the Banjo deal, but not a part of Volume 1, then it suggests that, at one point, additional fighters were planned outside of the Fighters Pass, potentially having us look at a Fighters Pass + individual packs scenario which has been floated around once in awhile. If rumors are legitimate, that would give us two individual packs of Steve Minecraft and Ryu Hayabusa. Furthermore, if Bethesda was approached by Nintendo in "some capacity" for Smash, that explains why we got Vault Boy in the last update.
But what about Min Min? Well, if you take a look at base game, while we got Spring Man and minimal ARMS content...we never got a stage or music. This raises the possibility that, while it was too late for base game, it might have been saved for eventual DLC if they decided upon a Volume 2, which obviously we now have. This means that Byleth would have never been planned as the "last" DLC character and that Nintendo had an inkling (heh) of continuing DLC past Volume 1 prior to the beginning of development. We have no timeline of events, so we don't really know when Sakurai visited Atlus as opposed to meeting with Microsoft or playing Three Houses, or for that matter acquiring Steve or hypothetically Hayabusa.
Is this to say that ALL fighters were decided at this point? No, actually I don't even think that's my point. I would say my point is more that, potentially, half of this pass was held off, thus suggesting that Volume 2 was in the making earlier than we first thought. What it means for future picks, I can't say. But it explains the 5 year negotiations, the strange comment about Minecraft (a leak in front of our own eyes this whole time?) as well as the constant existence in rumor purgatory of Ryu Hayabusa for like 3 years.
One other thing to note as a reminder from
my personal viewpoint is that sakurai talking about how pass 2 could have just been one or two characters in byleth's presentation actually is what happened. basically i think that the original plan was pass 1 + more or less 2 additional characters (steve among them), which then eventually bloomed into a full-on second pass (most likely around e3 2019 as per the khan man himself). min min makes it hard for me to subscribe to the idea of volume 2 in its entirety being planned at the beginning but i do now think that some form of additional characters besides pass 1 was always a thing
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