Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[cashregister9]

I mainly fear Lloyd because that might make things awkward with fellow ARPG character Adol, especially seeing as the newer games are fairly close to a 3D Tales game.

Quick, someone give me good Tales music so I can get sold on them and be fine with either series in Smash.

This is my favorite Tales of Symphonia which just so happens to be the opening

 

[SNEKeater]

I mainly fear Lloyd because that might make things awkward with fellow ARPG character Adol, especially seeing as the newer games are fairly close to a 3D Tales game.

Quick, someone give me good Tales music so I can get sold on them and be fine with either series in Smash.

Not like I'm an expert in the series but

This one is probably my fave from Symphonia:

 

[pupNapoleon]

You can prefer other Namco choices, that's totally fine, but I don't see why Lloyd or any other Tales character would be a downgrade in comparison to other RPG characters already in Smash.

Even if Lloyd only appeals to Smash fans, which is obviously not the case... it's that wrong or something?
Banjo also appealed to Smash fans rather than attracting new fans to the game, and that doesn't mean he was a bad addition.

I honestly just think you're downplaying Lloyd with somewhat silly reasons only because you would rather other characters from Bandai Namco. And hey, not like that's a bad thing, but I don't believe dismissing Lloyd/Tales with random points will make Agumon, Heihachi or Nightmare more likely or popular within the Smash community like, at all.
I myself would probably rather have Heihachi or a Tekken character. And Dark Souls would excite me as well as a darkhorse pick. That doesn't mean Lloyd would feel a bad choice for me.

No... My #TeamAgumon was honestly unrelated. Yes I'd prefer other Bamco characters, but i just also happen to think Lloyd is a silly option.

I agree that you or anyone can mention points of why Agumon could be a good choice. But the same applies to Tales. People already pointed out that Tales is a popular and important JRPG franchise, specially in Japan. Lloyd is a popular request and that has been a thing for years. Smash 4 already had Tales content with Lloyd's Costume, so there's a precedent already for Smash x Tales.

If they exist, as I said in my last post, I'd truly love to hear it. There are people that think any given character makes sense. And that's part of the beauty of Smash, sure, but it isn't a part of reality, as far as I'm concerned. Business is ....business. It's a sad reality any artist must learn to some extent. Most of the arguments I've seen for Tales are that he 'has two swords, not one!' I mean... cool. How about a character that is actually entirely unique anyway?

I also don't think that going into the "X would be more wise from a business perspective" territory is going to benefit your argument a lot, because we have multiple precedents where clearly that point doesn't seem to matter that much: they could have chose Steve or Chief instead of going with Banjo the first time, they could have added a new Sonic character instead of going with Bayonetta or Joker, they could have added Lara Croft instead of Hero, they could have added a RE character and a Monster Hunter character instead of going with Megaman and Ryu, and so on.
Of course, each pick is a different case and Nintendo will have different reasons to have picked characters like Banjo or Cloud.

Absolutely. My only point was that the comment I quoted said Tales sold more. This was factually incorrect...incredibly incorrect, actually, and I wanted to source several pages to prove just how incorrect it was.

 

[JOJONumber691]

If we get a NAMCO Character, it's Don-Chan or The IDOLM@STER Idols lol.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'm not certain for Tales to get a playable character at this point tbh but people are really forgetting the hard fact that the producer of Smash Ultimate (actually since Sm4sh) is Yo****o Higuchi himself, the directer/producer of Symphonia and Vesperia.

Huh. Didn't remember that.

Also, the censor lol.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Also, the censor lol.

Reminds me of when I was chatting on the Capcom Unity forums (which also auto-censored swear words), and while talking about Ace Attorney, I mentioned a certain character and their name came up as "**** Gumshoe". Always funny when that happens.

 

[SKX31]

I'm not certain for Tales to get a playable character at this point tbh but people are really forgetting the hard fact that the producer of Smash Ultimate (actually since Sm4sh) is Yo****o Higuchi himself, the directer/producer of Symphonia and Vesperia.

So if either of them gets in the trailer's going to be a 1 v 1 between Lloyd and Yuri for the Smash letter just to **** with fans?

(Seriously, that does emphasize the "Why hasn't Bamco gotten a character post-Pacman" question even more.)

I don't think that means anything, though?

Remember: Sakurai said Namco isn't getting priority just because they're co-developing the game.

That's a possible wrinkle since Namco very likely gets a % cut of 4's and Ultimate's revenue / profits - regardless of whether another Bamco character gets in or not. Still, there is a grand total of 18 confirmed DLC opportunities though (7 Sm4sh + 5 FP1 + 6 FP2) + 7 confirmed Ultimate newcomers, excluding Echoes for simplicity), so it still feels a little strange that Bamco haven't gotten another character since Pacman (and 19 out of 25 hypotheoretically possible slots later, discounting FP2 since Bamco could get a character in here), who's designated fighter #55.

Edit: And I'm counting Plant as base game since he was planned for it and a pre-purchase bonus, as well as for simplicity's sake.

 

[Deleted member]

We already got the Heihachi and Gil costumes this pass, so it's pretty likely Lloyd is the next returning Bamco costume on the chopping block. Highly doubt his inclusion at this point.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

So if either of them gets in the trailer's going to be a 1 v 1 between Lloyd and Yuri for the Smash letter just to **** with fans?

(Seriously, that does emphasize the "Why hasn't Bamco gotten a character post-Pacman" question even more.)

If Higuchi ends up being the decider, then I hope he will go with my boy, Yuri.

 

[pupNapoleon]

So if either of them gets in the trailer's going to be a 1 v 1 between Lloyd and Yuri for the Smash letter just to **** with fans?

(Seriously, that does emphasize the "Why hasn't Bamco gotten a character post-Pacman" question even more.)



That's a possible wrinkle since Namco very likely gets a % cut of 4's and Ultimate's revenue / profits - regardless of whether another Bamco character gets in or not. Still, there is a grand total of 18 confirmed DLC opportunities though (7 Sm4sh + 5 FP1 + 6 FP2) + 7 confirmed Ultimate newcomers (excluding Echoes for simplicity), so it still feels a little strange that Bamco haven't gotten another character since Pacman (and 19 out of 25 hypotheoretically possible slots later, discounting FP2 since Bamco could get a character in here), who's designated fighter #55.

Edit: And I'm counting Plant as base game since he was planned for it and a pre-purchase bonus, as well as for simplicity's sake.

I might be wrong about this, obviously, but generally a company and an artist get a base pay for a produced product. At least, with most other media I can tell you it is usually that way. Each contract is unique, but I would be highly surprised to find out that Bamco got commission based rates.

 

[Ivander]

I mainly fear Lloyd because that might make things awkward with fellow ARPG character Adol, especially seeing as the newer games are fairly close to a 3D Tales game.

Quick, someone give me good Tales music so I can get sold on them and be fine with either series in Smash.

Spoiler

If you're wondering why some of Vesperia's tracks sound similar, it's because most of Vesperia's music was done by Motoi Sakuraba, the one who did the music for Golden Sun, the Mario Golf & Tennis games, Baten Kaitos, Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile, Eternal Sonata, Dark Pit's theme from Kid Icarus Uprising(as well as a bunch of other tracks), and most famously, Dark Souls.

 

[TwiceEXE]

We already got the Heihachi and Gil costumes this pass, so it's pretty likely Lloyd is the next returning Bamco costume on the chopping block. Highly doubt his inclusion at this point.

Yes because he's being released when Yuri or Velvet plz gets added.

 

[pupNapoleon]

On the subject of Tales....since it won't die... how is any character other than Lloyd even considered? I understand Sakurai changes opinions, but it's pretty unique to give a frontrunner of a series the 'necessary' trade mark. In fact I don't think it ever happened. How can other Tales' characters be realistically considered? That's worse than Ridley. I don't recall Sakurai ever prioritizing a series in the way he did Tales.

 

[Goombaic]

On the subject of Tales....since it won't die... how is any character other than Lloyd even considered? I understand Sakurai changes opinions, but it's pretty unique to give a frontrunner of a series the 'necessary' trade mark. In fact I don't think it ever happened. How can other Tales' characters be realistically considered? That's worse than Ridley. I don't recall Sakurai ever prioritizing a series in the way he did Tales.

Because Sakurai isn't the one picking characters.

 

[Ivander]

On the subject of Tales....since it won't die... how is any character other than Lloyd even considered? I understand Sakurai changes opinions, but it's pretty unique to give a frontrunner of a series the 'necessary' trade mark. In fact I don't think it ever happened. How can other Tales' characters be realistically considered? That's worse than Ridley.

Lloyd may be well known over in the West, but I don't think I have to mention the amount of times that someone has mentioned Yuri Lowell has been taken off popularity polls for being too frickin' popular. In fact, he was the first one, with the 2nd one being Leon Magnus. Like that's the thing, Lloyd is just well known among Nintendo fans due to his games being exclusive to the Gamecube and Wii in America before the later Playstation versions came.
But Yuri is just so frickin' popular in Japan. And be aware that his game was released as an exclusive for the XBOX 360, a system that had next to no attention in Japan. Tales of Vesperia actually sold Xbox 360 systems and Yuri beat popularity polls before it was even announced Tales of Vesperia was getting a PS3 release in Japan. Like the fact that he beat popularity polls despite his game being only for Xbox 360 at the time should say enough about his popularity in Japan.

 

[TwiceEXE]

On the subject of Tales....since it won't die... how is any character other than Lloyd even considered? I understand Sakurai changes opinions, but it's pretty unique to give a frontrunner of a series the 'necessary' trade mark. In fact I don't think it ever happened. How can other Tales' characters be realistically considered? That's worse than Ridley. I don't recall Sakurai ever prioritizing a series in the way he did Tales.

The only one with a realistic shot would be Yuri, and he would be chosen because he's the most popular Tales protagonist by far. Who knows if Nintendo would pick him because of that but there is a reason people consider him at alternative to Lloyd.

As for Sakurai's previous comments... I really don't care about them that much. For one, Nintendo is choosing the DLC not Sakurai. Plus, like you said, opinions change. Sakurai said Ridley is too big and then we get Ridley. Sakurai says he considered Geno back in Brawl and then we get like 50+ new characters that aren't Geno.

I think we have so little insight to the actual process of a character being chosen for Smash that we hyper-focus on any word Sakurai says; which to him is probably nothing more than a passing comment but to us ends up being our sacred text by which all things are judged.

 

[cosmicB]

I didn't think Joker was a great choice- though at least he was particularly unique, and of course, Persona inspired a lot of Smash.
Earthbound is Nintendo, so it isn't quite the same.

But it's not able to be argued that we aren't limited in space. Why do we need the third best RPG series when we have so many RPG characters? I paid for 3//5 RPG characters in the first pass. Their time is done, in my eyes. It doesn't add enough to Smash from my point of view.

Where are Horror Games? FPS? The list goes on. I'm personally bankrupt on rpg mechanics- it's just not interesting enough anymore.

Characters are more than just their genre. Lloyd, or any other Tales character would absolutely bring something new to the table with the Overlimit mechanic.

That isn't to say I don't agree with you that there's still genres that need representation like rhythm, but we're talking specifically playstyle, Lloyd wouldn't just be some Fire Emblem clone.

Digimon is a media franchise, that has overall earned more than Tales...and it's by a longshot. As far as game sales and as a media franchise, Tales doesn't compare. Even just in game sales, Digimon is above Dragon Quest, and only slightly below Final Fantasy. Tales isn't even on either list, because it ranks so lowly.
I thought it was clear that my two opinions were not at all related. I don't think they have much to do with eachother.
I don't feel Byleth appealed to a 'new group, either, for that matter)
But I can make a lot of points as to why I think Agumon is a good choice. DIgimon is from a genre of gaming that was incredibly well known in the 90s, pocket pets. It's a character with a very obvious unique mechanic. He has a unique shape compared to any smash character, and silhouettes have not only been stated to be important, but are even a feature of how we recognize newcomers. Not to mention, half the Crash hype is based around rivalry....

Digimon has a reboot of it's series. Now is the time. It's truly not comparable to Lloyd, who- yes, now- I'm comparing as a weaker choice. This might not be a popular thought on a Smash echochamber, but from a business sense, Agumon is just the smarter move.

(Oh... as far as RPG character... I don't think that's fair to say. Digimon might have a lot of RPG games, but it has many other mainline games that are a variant of game genres. But I will at respect this point on the notion of it being an opinion).

Digimon is in the middle of a resurgence because of the Digimon Story brand, which is a traditional JRPG series. It's also nowhere near as big as Tales. Digimon has the bigger legacy overall, but it fell off like a rock, at least in the gaming space, whereas Tales has remained consistent throughout the years even if there's been ups and downs. It doesn't have to be this massive worldwide phenomenon to be an important piece of gaming history.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Rondoline E. Effenberg is clearly the best pick from Tales.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Jeez, my quoting went up so much in one minute. Yay!

Because Sakurai isn't the one picking characters.

Yeah... they do say that. Persona was the first game though, so it's back to feeling we get half truths.

Lloyd may be well known over in the West, but I don't think I have to mention the amount of times that someone has mentioned Yuri Lowell has been taken off popularity polls for being too frickin' popular. In fact, he was the first one, with the 2nd one being Leon Magnus. Like that's the thing, Lloyd is just well known among Nintendo fans due to his games being exclusive to the Gamecube and Wii in America before the later Playstation versions came.
But Yuri is just so frickin' popular in Japan. And be aware that his game was released as an exclusive for the XBOX 360, a system that had next to no attention in Japan. Tales of Vesperia actually sold Xbox 360 systems and Yuri beat popularity polls before it was even announced Tales of Vesperia was getting a PS3 release in Japan. Like the fact that he beat popularity polls despite his game being only for Xbox 360 at the time should say enough about his popularity in Japan.

I don't know what it means to 'beat popularity polls,' since it's not actually relevant at all (not even in the US election), but how does this outweigh the character the director of Smash is choice 1?

The only one with a realistic shot would be Yuri, and he would be chosen because he's the most popular Tales protagonist by far. Who knows if Nintendo would pick him because of that but there is a reason people consider him at alternative to Lloyd.

As for Sakurai's previous comments... I really don't care about them that much. For one, Nintendo is choosing the DLC not Sakurai. Plus, like you said, opinions change. Sakurai said Ridley is too big and then we get Ridley. Sakurai says he considered Geno back in Brawl and then we get like 50+ new characters that aren't Geno.

I think we have so little insight to the actual process of a character being chosen for Smash that we hyper-focus on any word Sakurai says; which to him is probably nothing more than a passing comment but to us ends up being our sacred text by which all things are judged.

I agree, the Smash community is hyper focused. But the spirit of the quotation is what I consider, and personally, it sounded like Tales is one of the few game series where he condemned any character who wasnt one very specific one. I dont recall us ever getting another statement like his statement about Lloyd. Sure, he might have changed his mind, but Ridley and Pacman sounded like inspiration. I dont know how he would be inspired to not choose a character and instead choose another from the same franchise.


No matter what, it's clear Tales is popular.... for people who talk about Smash on a dedicated forum.

 

[SharkLord]

On the subject of Tales....since it won't die... how is any character other than Lloyd even considered? I understand Sakurai changes opinions, but it's pretty unique to give a frontrunner of a series the 'necessary' trade mark. In fact I don't think it ever happened. How can other Tales' characters be realistically considered? That's worse than Ridley. I don't recall Sakurai ever prioritizing a series in the way he did Tales.

From what I can gather, it's Lloyd and the Smash fanbase/general audience against Yuri and the Tales fanbase. Lloyd seems to get the most requests and is considered the face of the series, to the point Sakurai said he'd be a necessity back when the Mii costume was added, but Yuri is apparently so popular that he had to get taken off the popularity polls. Personally, I feel like the face of the series like Lloyd would go first, but I don't think I know enough to be qualified to talk about Tales in-depth.

 

[cosmicB]

A Tales pick would be either Lloyd due to Nintendo popularity, Yuri due to absurd Japan popularity, or Alphen as a promotional pick. A potential dark horse would be Cress as "the OG" similar to Marth, but seeing as Cloud was picked over Warrior of Light, I can't imagine he'd be in the running. There are no other feasible options.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Characters are more than just their genre. Lloyd, or any other Tales character would absolutely bring something new to the table with the Overlimit mechanic.

That isn't to say I don't agree with you that there's still genres that need representation like rhythm, but we're talking specifically playstyle, Lloyd wouldn't just be some Fire Emblem clone.

I've asked multiple times for arguments in favor of Lloyd. Still have only gotten backlash, not any actual merit to gameplay, but I'm very eager to hear more.

Digimon is in the middle of a resurgence because of the Digimon Story brand, which is a traditional JRPG series. It's also nowhere near as big as Tales. Digimon has the bigger legacy overall, but it fell off like a rock, at least in the gaming space, whereas Tales has remained consistent throughout the years even if there's been ups and downs. It doesn't have to be this massive worldwide phenomenon to be an important piece of gaming history.

Well, Digimon is bigger by sales. As a gaming franchise, and as a media franchise, Tales doesnt compare. Sure, that's not all that matters, but it's certainly incorrect to claim Tales is 'bigger.' It isnt. It doesn't come close.

 

[frozolloyd]

Digimon is a media franchise, that has overall earned more than Tales...and it's by a longshot. As far as game sales and as a media franchise, Tales doesn't compare. Even just in game sales, Digimon is above Dragon Quest, and only slightly below Final Fantasy. Tales isn't even on either list, because it ranks so lowly.
I thought it was clear that my two opinions were not at all related. I don't think they have much to do with eachother.
I don't feel Byleth appealed to a 'new group, either, for that matter)
But I can make a lot of points as to why I think Agumon is a good choice. DIgimon is from a genre of gaming that was incredibly well known in the 90s, pocket pets. It's a character with a very obvious unique mechanic. He has a unique shape compared to any smash character, and silhouettes have not only been stated to be important, but are even a feature of how we recognize newcomers. Not to mention, half the Crash hype is based around rivalry....

Digimon has a reboot of it's series. Now is the time. It's truly not comparable to Lloyd, who- yes, now- I'm comparing as a weaker choice. This might not be a popular thought on a Smash echochamber, but from a business sense, Agumon is just the smarter move.

(Oh... as far as RPG character... I don't think that's fair to say. Digimon might have a lot of RPG games, but it has many other mainline games that are a variant of game genres. But I will at respect this point on the notion of it being an opinion).

As I have reiterated before, I don't think Agumon is bad choice, and yes, due to the anime the Digimon series is more well known. But a few of your facts are wrong, just by looking at the second link you provided.
1. No Digimon does not have more game sales then Dragon Quest. The wiki (the second link in your post) even gives a break down of where most of the money came from. Digimon made about 500-600 million from the digital pets and console combined (its worth noting console sales were only at 90 million). Dragon Quest made 6.501 BILLION from video games alone. In fact the wiki has Digimon at a total of 6.36 billion vs Dragon Quest's 12.9 billion. I don't understand where you got that Dragon Quest had lower game sales , but I will assume it was an error on your part.
2. The breakdown also did state something interesting I thought I would point out. The largest contributions by far to Digimon's ranking comes from licensed merchandising, not video games. To give some context, I said the actual virtual pet/consoles were about 500-600 million earlier, the merchandising was 5.39 billion, approximately 84 percent of the total earnings from the Digimon franchise.
3. The Tales of series last reported that they sold about 20 million copies throughout the entire run of the series. If we assume the lowest possible value for a Tales game, which was back on the SNES and was about 30 dollars a game (although I might have the value wrong, correct me if I am off), and multiply that by the 20 million total sales, that means the lowest possible estimate for the sales of the Tales of series was 600 million. And keep in mind, this number is grossly lower then what is actually is, since the really popular tales games that sold the best (Symphonia, Vesperia and Xillia) were actually around the 50-60 dollars a game. In other word, the Tales of series has most definitely made more money through its video games then Digimon. However, do not mistake this as me saying the Tales of series has made more money OVERALL or as a media, because that isn't factually true.

I want to reiterate one more time, I like Agumon, and think he would be a fantastic addition. I also think being a bigger media could be a good point for him. But I feel in a lot of your posts you are really downplaying the Tales of series importance simply because you would rather have another Bamco rep.

 

[SharkLord]

Rondoline E. Effenberg is clearly the best pick from Tales.

After Smash introduced me to Castlevania, I can't say no to whips. Whipswords, even better.

 

[pupNapoleon]

From what I can gather, it's Lloyd and the Smash/general audience fanbase against Yuri and the Tales fanbase. Lloyd seems to get the most requests and is considered the face of the series, to the point Sakurai said he'd be a necessity back when the Mii costume was added, but Yuri is apparently so popular that he had to get taken off the popularity polls. Personally, I feel like the face of the series like Lloyd would go first, but I don't think I know enough to be qualified to talk about Tales in-depth.

What does it mean to be so popular as to be taken off a popularity poll? I legitimately don't understand. Please reference sources.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

What does it mean to be so popular as to be taken off a popularity poll? I legitimately don't understand. Please reference sources.

Yuri and another Tales character named Leon got 1st in almost every popularity poll up to 2017 so much that they took the two off of the. polls and put them in the Hall of Fame making them not be able to participate in the popularity polls anymore

 

[SharkLord]

What does it mean to be so popular as to be taken off a popularity poll? I legitimately don't understand. Please reference sources.

Basically, the guy's so popular that Bamco outright removed him from the polls just to give everyone else a chance.

 

[cosmicB]

I've asked multiple times for arguments in favor of Lloyd. Still have only gotten backlash, not any actual merit to gameplay, but I'm very eager to hear more.

Just go into the Lloyd thread then. There are some good write-ups there on why he'd be unique. I'm not going to copy and paste stuff from people that put more thought into it than I did.

Well, Digimon is bigger by sales. As a gaming franchise, and as a media franchise, Tales doesnt compare. Sure, that's not all that matters, but it's certainly incorrect to claim Tales is 'bigger.' It isnt. It doesn't come close.

Digimon was big during a very specific time period, and more as a multi-media franchise than a gaming one. They tried the dual-release thing Pokemon does and it didn't work out very well, to the point the series wasn't even seen as viable globally anymore. It took Cyber Sleuth doing well to convince Bamco to localize the games again.

The trajectory for Tales is a little different. It was always considered one of the biggest JRPG series in Japan after FF and DQ, but took a while to get a real foothold in the west, but it never lost it after it did, even if the status of it was a little murky during the time period between Symphonia and Vesperia. One thing that can be said for sure is it definitely thrived more than Digimon did globally in that time period.

 

[frozolloyd]

Yuri and another Tales character named Leon got 1st in almost every popularity poll up to 2017 so much that they took the two off of the. polls and put them in the Hall of Fame making them not be able to participate in the popularity polls anymore

I always hear the poll mentioned, but I never have gotten the chance to ask a question. Did Leon get removed first, then Yuri, or did they both get removed at the same time? Either way they are both clearly very popular, it just sucks Leon doesn't have a shot at being in Smash, due to not being the protagonist of that game. From what I have seen of him in Crestoria, he seems like he would also be a really neat character if a Tales character was added.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Wasn't Lloyd taken off at least one poll for being too popular as well?

 

[Aerospherology]

Next year is Pokemon Gen 1's 25th anniversary. Magneton confirmed

You spelled "MissingNo." wrong.

 

[MooMew64]

On the subject of Tales....since it won't die... how is any character other than Lloyd even considered? I understand Sakurai changes opinions, but it's pretty unique to give a frontrunner of a series the 'necessary' trade mark. In fact I don't think it ever happened. How can other Tales' characters be realistically considered? That's worse than Ridley. I don't recall Sakurai ever prioritizing a series in the way he did Tales.

I've done a write up on what Yuri brings to the table before, but long story short:

Lloyd being the face of Tales isn't really too much of a thing anymore. Symphonia is still beloved, don't get me wrong, but it's more beloved in the west than it is in Japan, and in Japan Tales is pretty big. If they're gonna add a Tales character, it would IMHO definitely cater to Japan's Tales of crowd first and everyone else second.

Nowadays, games like Vesperia and Berseria are the games that have attracted the most love from what I've seen. Lloyd's still popular, but other choices could definitely be the ones gone for as Lloyd doesn't really rep Tales in the same way Cloud does Final Fantasy IMO.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I always hear the poll mentioned, but I never have gotten the chance to ask a question. Did Leon get removed first, then Yuri, or did they both get removed at the same time? Either way they are both clearly very popular, it just sucks Leon doesn't have a shot at being in Smash, due to not being the protagonist of that game. From what I have seen of him in Crestoria, he seems like he would also be a really neat character if a Tales character was added.

they were added to Hall of Fame status at Tales of Festival 2013 together, I assume

 

[Ivander]

I don't know what it means to 'beat popularity polls,' since it's not actually relevant at all (not even in the US election), but how does this outweigh the character the director of Smash is choice 1?

Basically, Namco actually has popularity polls for the Tales series in Japan.

テイルズチャンネル+

「テイルズチャンネル＋」は『テイルズ オブ』シリーズの公式ポータルサイトです。

tales-ch.jp

And they've been around for a long time. Like around 2000s time.

Apple Gumi - Part 2

I guess this looks alright...Thanks to WDR for proof reading! Original encoding: ShinryuTranslation and subs: MeNote: I didn't translate the attack names bec...

www.youtube.com

Like while that video was posted in the 2007s, those Gumi "skits" they did were around before then. The 2nd place winner in that video is Leon Magnus, one of the ones who got banned from popularity polls later.
When Tales of VS. came out, it showed the recent popularity poll that was after Tales of Vesperia had released for Xbox and before it came for Playstation 3.

Tales of VS. テイルズ オブ★ザ・ダークナイト(Part 1/2)

Tales of VS. ドラマチックDVD～ダークヒーロー篇～に収録されているスキットドラマ テイルズ オブ★ザ・ダークナイトのPart 1です

www.youtube.com

Yuri was Number 1 despite his game only coming out on Xbox, with Leon Magnus still holding his 2nd place.

And those polls are a yearly thing. And Yuri was eventually removed because he kept getting 1st place all the time and Leon joined him. Their popularity is practically symbolised by them being the two shown at the top before the poll results are shown as they are in the first link.

I always hear the poll mentioned, but I never have gotten the chance to ask a question. Did Leon get removed first, then Yuri, or did they both get removed at the same time? Either way they are both clearly very popular, it just sucks Leon doesn't have a shot at being in Smash, due to not being the protagonist of that game. From what I have seen of him in Crestoria, he seems like he would also be a really neat character if a Tales character was added.

Either both at the same time or Yuri first, then Leon. And Yuri is a fantastic character in Vesperia. He is a farcry from your traditional JRPG protagonist and while he is a smacktalker and joker, he's far from your goody-two shoes. And before he got some new voiced lines in the Definitive edition done by Grant George, Yuri was originally played by Troy Baker.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Yeah. If our NAMCO Character is from Tales, no way it isn't Yuri Lowell. Literally being banned from yearly popularity polls in Japan means far more than having a GameCube/Wii Exclusive in the West, especially to Nintendo.

Who knows though, they could potentially be Echoes of each other. if you want to take some creative liberties with either. Giving each other skills the other have. Lloyd is more Combo Focused thanks to his Two Swords, while Yuri's more of an All Rounder.

 

[ZelDan]

Spoiler

If you're wondering why some of Vesperia's tracks sound similar, it's because most of Vesperia's music was done by Motoi Sakuraba, the one who did the music for Golden Sun, the Mario Golf & Tennis games, Baten Kaitos, Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile, Eternal Sonata, Dark Pit's theme from Kid Icarus Uprising(as well as a bunch of other tracks), and most famously, Dark Souls.

God, whenever people bring up tales and Golden Sun sharing a composer, I'm always reminded how you can hear part of GS2's final overworld theme in Symphonia's intro. Or that's something that young me definitely noticed...

 

[Ivander]

Wasn't Lloyd taken off at least one poll for being too popular as well?

He may have been taken off once due to being the first place winner, as I believe they do that with the winners. Have them miss one year, than put them back the next year. In the case for Yuri, every time he was up, he'd either get first place all the time or almost everytime. Same like how Leon Magnus was always constantly in the top 3.

 

[SharkLord]

Something I think is worth noting is that Lloyd still seems to get the bulk of the Smash requests. While we have gotten less-requested characters over more popular requests, like Joker, I think it holds a bit more weight when we narrow it down to a specific series. Back when we got Cloud, it was stated that he took up more than a third of the Final Fantasy requests, and that FF7 is still the most popular despite not being on a Nintendo system at that time.
In addition, Japanese fans observed that Cloud seemed to appeal more to overseas fans. It's also not like we haven't had more Western-appeal characters before, like Little Mac, Ridley, and the Belmonts. In fact, quite a few Japanese fans wished we had gotten Bomberman over the Belmonts instead. I don't think we should count out Western audiences entirely.

 

[SNEKeater]

Honestly when it comes to Tales I think it's 50-50 between Yuri and Lloyd.

I think it would be funny if Yuri ends being the one tho. I already can see the complains in the comment section of Smash related tweets, because Lloyd certainly is more popular among Smash/Nintendo fans.

What if Sakurai decides to please everyone, and adds both as a duo team? lmao

Personally I'd be okay with either one. But if I had to choose one... I like Yuri more, to be honest.

 

[SharkLord]

Personally, I feel like a fighter with more requests is going to play a pretty big role when determining the first fighter of a series. Seeing as Sakurai directs Smash and Nintendo makes it, you'd think they'd pay more attention to the Smash requests rather than the series' specific polls, considering how that's the info aimed at Nintendo/Sakurai themselves.