Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[FJA147]

I think we are going to get a highly requested Character by the Japanese audience and one highly requested character for the West. From there I have no idea. This going to be used to sell the pass.
FP 1 and PP
PP unexpected out of left field character.
Unexpected, somewhat universal wanted character- Joker
Highly requested Japanese audience character- Hero
Highly requested Western audience character- Banjo
FP2
Min Min- unexpected out of left Field character.
Steve-universal wanted, unexpected character.
Wanted character by Japanese audience -?
Wanted Western audience character?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Am still thinking the very last FP2 character will be a Zelda character because of BotW2 and AoC as well as the Zelda anniversary next year. It would be the ideal anniversary present.

You lost when you said anniversary. Nothing happens on anniversaries.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I think we are going to get a highly requested Character by the Japanese audience and one highly requested character for the West. From there I have no idea. This going to be used to sell the pass.
FP 1 and PP
PP unexpected out of left field character.
Unexpected, somewhat universal wanted character- Joker
Highly requested Japanese audience character- Hero
Highly requested Western audience character- Banjo
FP2
Min Min- unexpected out of left Field character.
Steve-universal wanted, unexpected character.
Wanted character by Japanese audience -?
Wanted Western audience character?

Saber and Skull Kid BABY!

 

[Teeb147]

You lost when you said anniversary. Nothing happens on anniversaries.

Some spirit boards

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think we are going to get a highly requested Character by the Japanese audience and one highly requested character for the West. From there I have no idea. This going to be used to sell the pass.
FP 1 and PP
PP unexpected out of left field character.
Unexpected, somewhat universal wanted character- Joker
Highly requested Japanese audience character- Hero
Highly requested Western audience character- Banjo
FP2
Min Min- unexpected out of left Field character.
Steve-universal wanted, unexpected character.
Wanted character by Japanese audience -?
Wanted Western audience character?

In no context can Joker be called a universally wanted character.

 

[7NATOR]

If we Get Crash, I think a Premium Rayman Costume would come with him...

 

[Guynamednelson]

I definitely think a character like Ruby Heart would take a crap ton of balancing to get right if she were to get in.

If we get Ruby and Amingo together to represent the tag-team gameplay of MvC, sure.

this is how amingo wins, etc.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I mean i've heard crazier things but we didn't get a Mario character for his anniversary. It doesn't seem like Anniversaries coincide with Smash at all

Well, I see that, but Ultimate did get Piranha Plant as a newcomer prior. As well as Daisy as an Echo. I think it's fine as it is now. Piranha Plant literally SCREAMS being nothing but an "extra". Zelda is in dire need of a newcomer.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Funnily enough a bunch of speculated characters are celebrating anniversaries either this year or next:

2020: Waluigi - 20th Anniversary / Dixie Kong - 25th Anniversary
2021: Geno, Crash Bandicoot, Lara Croft, Sakura Shinguji - 25th Anniversary / Dante, Phoenix Wright, Master Chief, Isaac, - 20th Anniversary

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well, I see that, but Ultimate did get Piranha Plant as a newcomer prior. As well as Daisy as an Echo. I think it's fine as it is now. Piranha Plant literally SCREAMS being nothing but an "extra". Zelda is in dire need of a newcomer.

I dont disagree- but unless there is a feasible way to make all four champions into one character, I just don't think it's likely. I wanted Impa as an echo. She was the most 'deserving' echo I think we had.

But I don't think Three Links, Two Ninja's, Ganondorf and Zelda really represent Zelda in the best light. The game is a universe of unique characters- not a series of basically-humans who use swords and poof around. Without Gorons and Rito(s?) and Deku(s?) oh my, I don't see a point for a new Hyrulian.

 

[cashregister9]

Well, I see that, but Ultimate did get Piranha Plant as a newcomer prior. As well as Daisy as an Echo. I think it's fine as it is now. Piranha Plant literally SCREAMS being nothing but an "extra". Zelda is in dire need of a newcomer.

Zelda desperately needs better representation I heavily agree with you there, I just cannot see a character coming in this pass with a full pack, Impa depending on what game she is based off of would get complicated,

Skyward Sword - All characters with official art are already Spirits and there is a Skyward Sword stage,

Breath Of The Wild - We already have a stage and again All characters with official art have spirits and an extra bonus, Most BOTW music is already in (Although that last probably means nothing for Impa but it might impact a champion)

Hyrule Warriors - This would be the easiest but It doesn't seem likely to me and I don't really know why, This would be my Ideal version though

If they combine games then things would get complicated for completely different reasons

This whole conversation changes if extra fighters and Extra echoes come into play, If that event were to occur I think Impa's chances become waaaay higher.

 

[Pinguino21v]

And both Isaac and Phoenix are in that bag IMO, Isaac both because he is one of the few characters that would bring a new Nintendo IP as fighter and because he is a long requested character, and Pheonix because its strong ties to Nintendo and the new genre he would bring.

I agree with your overall comment, but this sentence is just not accurate. Nintendo series that could still be big enough to get a character are not in short supply.

• Golden Sun,
• Chibi Robo,
• Excite Bike/ Mach Rider,
• Panel de Pon,
• 'Wars,
• Balloon Fight,
• Custom Robo,
• Brain Age/ Big Brain Academy,
• Rhythm Heaven

Need I go on?

You are perfectly right in saying Golden Sun isn't the only unrepresented serie (in term of fighter) and some of them have, indeed, potential. You are accusing me of inaccuracy but you're forgetting one major thing: I have never claimed to be exhaustive. Therefore, the sentence "Isaac is in that bag because he would bring a new serie and because he is a long requested character" is technically accurate.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Also. We spoke about NInja Gaiden for twenty pages. I'm going to delve into this Mortal Kombat conversation.

In short, we need Scorpion. Thanks for listening.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Well, I see that, but Ultimate did get Piranha Plant as a newcomer prior. As well as Daisy as an Echo. I think it's fine as it is now. Piranha Plant literally SCREAMS being nothing but an "extra". Zelda is in dire need of a newcomer.

Didn't you post about wanting an entire Three Houses fighters pass?

 

[pupNapoleon]

...an entire Three Houses fighters pass?

If somehow that were to happen, I can honestly say I would never preorder Nintendo DLC again.

 

[andree123]

I think we are going to get a highly requested Character by the Japanese audience and one highly requested character for the West. From there I have no idea. This going to be used to sell the pass.
FP 1 and PP
PP unexpected out of left field character.
Unexpected, somewhat universal wanted character- Joker
Highly requested Japanese audience character- Hero
Highly requested Western audience character- Banjo
FP2
Min Min- unexpected out of left Field character.
Steve-universal wanted, unexpected character.
Wanted character by Japanese audience -?
Wanted Western audience character?

FP 1 and PP
PP unexpected out of left field character.
Unexpected, somewhat universal wanted character- Joker
Highly requested Japanese audience character- Hero
Highly requested Western audience character- Banjo
Wanted character in a few countries -Terry
Promotional 1st party character - Byleth

FP2
Min Min- unexpected out of left Field character.
Steve-universal wanted, unexpected character.
Wanted character in a few countries -Ryu Hayabusa
Wanted character by Japanese audience -Lloyd Irving
Wanted Western audience character - Geno
Promotional 1st party character - Euden

Any thoughts?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Wanted character by Japanese audience -Lloyd Irving
Any thoughts?

Honestly, I think Lloyd is a silly choice. I don't see who he appeals to that isn't already interested in the game. He is a direct downgrade from the other RPG character's we already have, which are bigger. Not to mention, it doesn't run with Nintendo's general blue ocean strategy of aiming to attain new players.
The game doesn't seem to benefit much from Lloyd's inclusion.

I know those are fighting words, but I'm 100% #TeamAgumon (or at least #TeamFightingGame #HeihachiIsntDead #SoulCaliburIsOkay

 

[AceAttorney9000]

On the topic of Fighters Pass 2 characters having gimmicks and complex mechanics like Min Min and Steve, I could see a few more happen... but I could also see at least one or two characters like Banjo and Byleth, who technically have a gimmick but are otherwise no more complex than the base roster characters.

Only if he's based off the NES Rambo, where Rambo throws a Kanji figure to turn people into frogs.

And yes, that does happen.

He's also an Echo Fighter of Young Link, with the main difference being that his attacks feel way more stiff.

... I wonder how many people are gonna get the reference here.

 

[PeridotGX]

Funnily enough a bunch of speculated characters are celebrating anniversaries either this year or next:

2020: Waluigi - 20th Anniversary / Dixie Kong - 25th Anniversary
2021: Geno, Crash Bandicoot, Lara Croft, Sakura Shinguji - 25th Anniversary / Dante, Phoenix Wright, Master Chief, Isaac, - 20th Anniversary

Next year is Pokemon Gen 1's 25th anniversary. Magneton confirmed

 

[Dr. Yatagarasu]

Wanted character by Japanese audience -Lloyd Irving
Any thoughts?

I'm not entirely certain if Lloyd is even the tales character wanted most by Japan.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Have you guys seen this poll? It's differently set up to most, but I like it. You should vote in it, or cheer rather

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for Nintendo Switch

Learn more about Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for Nintendo Switch™ on the official site from Nintendo.

www.globalsmashroster.com

It also allows you to add characters.

Honestly pretty cool. Got Brian added(though I wish I didn't screw up the first image. Doesn't seem like you can remove images at all? Albeit, the image is eh even then due to blur).

Cute website. It's still fairly cooperative compared to most.

 

[osby]

Honestly, I think Lloyd is a silly choice. I don't see who he appeals to that isn't already interested in the game. He is a direct downgrade from the other RPG character's we already have, which are bigger.

I don't see where you're coming from. Tales is widely regarded as one of the three big JRPG series along with Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. Earthbound and Persona, while popular in their own ways, are definitely smaller compared to it.

Whether Lloyd is the best representative of his franchise or not is arguable but saying that he's a downgrade is selling him short.

 

[Staarih]

On the topic of Fighters Pass 2 characters having gimmicks and complex mechanics like Min Min and Steve, I could see a few more happen... but I could also see at least one or two characters like Banjo and Byleth, who technically have a gimmick but are otherwise no more complex than the base roster characters.

I certainly hope we get simpler characters as well, after Steve's presentation I feel like you should be rewarded a medal or PhD or something for learning him lol. I like my characters simpl(er). Though I guess with Steve we don't really know how well he actually clicks with players just yet.

But yeah, I feel like Sakurai's mentality of bringing "new worlds" via DLC probably applies to different mechanics as well, so it wouldn't surprise me if plenty of the characters do have some sort of gimmick or whatever new tried with them. Though I'm not sure if the time frame for FP2 is based around that or if it's more of just a generous estimate (I feel like it would be hard to estimate such things in advance).

 

[pupNapoleon]

I don't see where you're coming from. Tales is widely regarded as one of the three big JRPG series along with Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. Earthbound and Persona, while popular in their own ways, are definitely smaller compared to it.

Whether Lloyd is the best representative of his franchise or not is arguable but saying that he's a downgrade is selling him short.

I didn't think Joker was a great choice- though at least he was particularly unique, and of course, Persona inspired a lot of Smash.
Earthbound is Nintendo, so it isn't quite the same.

But it's not able to be argued that we aren't limited in space. Why do we need the third best RPG series when we have so many RPG characters? I paid for 3//5 RPG characters in the first pass. Their time is done, in my eyes. It doesn't add enough to Smash from my point of view.

Where are Horror Games? FPS? The list goes on. I'm personally bankrupt on rpg mechanics- it's just not interesting enough anymore.

 

[KillerCage]

Any updates on that "Crash leak"?

 

[frozolloyd]

Honestly, I think Lloyd is a silly choice. I don't see who he appeals to that isn't already interested in the game. He is a direct downgrade from the other RPG character's we already have, which are bigger. Not to mention, it doesn't run with Nintendo's general blue ocean strategy of aiming to attain new players.
The game doesn't seem to benefit much from Lloyd's inclusion.

I know those are fighting words, but I'm 100% #TeamAgumon (or at least #TeamFightingGame #HeihachiIsntDead #SoulCaliburIsOkay

Although I respectively disagree with your opinions on them targeting new players with the new characters every time (Banjo and Byleth were sure targeted towards a group not already playing smash), I think the thing I find the most silly is that you out Agumon, after saying Lloyd is a step down compared to other RPG characters. You are aware Agumon is also an RPG character, and that his games have sold WAY less then the Tales of series, right? Even if you then specify he is part of the monster collecting RPGs and not the same RPGs as the Tales of series, Agumon would be following up the Pokemon series, which is a much bigger downgrade in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I definitely see Agumon as a Dark horse candidate for Bandai Namco, I just personally think the idea that "X character is a downgrade, thus will never happen" is kind of silly. Though I agree with Osby, calling the Tales of series an obvious downgrade is selling the series short.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Although I respectively disagree with your opinions on them targeting new players with the new characters every time (Banjo and Byleth were sure targeted towards a group not already playing smash), I think the thing I find the most silly is that you out Agumon, after saying Lloyd is a step down compared to other RPG characters. You are aware Agumon is also an RPG character, and that his games have sold WAY less then the Tales of series, right? Even if you then specify he is part of the monster collecting RPGs and not the same RPGs as the Tales of series, Agumon would be following up the Pokemon series, which is a much bigger downgrade in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I definitely see Agumon as a Dark horse candidate for Bandai Namco, I just personally think the idea that "X character is a downgrade, thus will never happen" is kind of silly. Though I agree with Osby, calling the Tales of series an obvious downgrade is selling the series short.

Digimon is a media franchise, that has overall earned more than Tales...and it's by a longshot. As far as game sales and as a media franchise, Tales doesn't compare. Even just in game sales, Digimon is above Dragon Quest, and only slightly below Final Fantasy. Tales isn't even on either list, because it ranks so lowly.
I thought it was clear that my two opinions were not at all related. I don't think they have much to do with eachother.
I don't feel Byleth appealed to a 'new group, either, for that matter)
But I can make a lot of points as to why I think Agumon is a good choice. DIgimon is from a genre of gaming that was incredibly well known in the 90s, pocket pets. It's a character with a very obvious unique mechanic. He has a unique shape compared to any smash character, and silhouettes have not only been stated to be important, but are even a feature of how we recognize newcomers. Not to mention, half the Crash hype is based around rivalry....

Digimon has a reboot of it's series. Now is the time. It's truly not comparable to Lloyd, who- yes, now- I'm comparing as a weaker choice. This might not be a popular thought on a Smash echochamber, but from a business sense, Agumon is just the smarter move.

(Oh... as far as RPG character... I don't think that's fair to say. Digimon might have a lot of RPG games, but it has many other mainline games that are a variant of game genres. But I will at respect this point on the notion of it being an opinion).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Any updates on that "Crash leak"?

I’d like to know too

 

[SharkLord]

Honestly, I think Lloyd is a silly choice. I don't see who he appeals to that isn't already interested in the game. He is a direct downgrade from the other RPG character's we already have, which are bigger. Not to mention, it doesn't run with Nintendo's general blue ocean strategy of aiming to attain new players.
The game doesn't seem to benefit much from Lloyd's inclusion.

I know those are fighting words, but I'm 100% #TeamAgumon (or at least #TeamFightingGame #HeihachiIsntDead #SoulCaliburIsOkay

This is reminding me of that old "Lloyd is such a downgrade after Hero" copypasta. Remember that one?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Any updates on that "Crash leak"?

If you're talking about the 5 year plan for Crash Bandicoot, no. From what I've looked up, this rumour has been going around since February 2018.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Wanted character by Japanese audience -Lloyd Irving

again, that would most likely be Yuri not Lloyd

 

[Ivander]

Tales is one of those series that would fit way too well into Smash. I mean, the series literally has A Regular attacks and B Special Moves, 4 Artes/Special moves activated by B, ->/<-B, Up-B and Down B. Had Tales been in Brawl or Wii U/3DS, the Final Smash would've been Over Limit that allows the player to spam Special moves and Regular attacks rapidly until you hold down the Special Button while finishing one of the Special moves to activate either a Single-Target Burst Arte or the True Final Smash move which is an cinematic AoE Mystic Arte attack.
But Over Limit would still be a unique mechanic for Smash because while there are characters who can activate certain special moves after a previous special move, like Terry, there isn't a character with a mechanic that allows them a moment to outright combine spam their regular attacks and specials in rapid consecutive succession.

 

[pupNapoleon]

This is reminding me of that old "Lloyd is such a downgrade after Hero" copypasta. Remember that one?

Please don't attempt to deflate my well established opinion, based on empirical data, to tell me that I'm wrong. At least try harder. I quoted sales, Sakurai, and precedent. You have barely formulated a thesis.

 

[SharkLord]

Please don't attempt to deflate my well established opinion, based on empirical data, to tell me that I'm wrong. At least try harder. I quoted sales, Sakurai, and precedent. You have barely formulated a thesis.

I mean, I wasn't even trying in the first place anyways. Just remembered that one old copypasta because it's eerily similar in terms of topic, and I'm trying to see who else remembers it. That's all there is to it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I mean, I wasn't even trying in the first place anyways. Just remembered that one old copypasta because it's eerily similar in terms of topic, and I'm trying to see who else remembers it. That's all there is to it.

I would actually like an argument to my Agumon theory... It's as sound of logic as any that exists in Smash, and I'm trying not to get too hopeful.

Also, if complexity matters (doubtful)---- he would absolutely play in a unique way.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Poor Lloyd, even when yuri was taken off of the popularity polls because he kept winning he still doesn't even get to the top. As of 2017 in the 8th popularity poll, mikleo was the one that the top Lloyd wasn't even in the top 20. The closest Lloyd got to the top was in 2008 ranked 4

 

[SNEKeater]

Honestly, I think Lloyd is a silly choice. I don't see who he appeals to that isn't already interested in the game. He is a direct downgrade from the other RPG character's we already have, which are bigger. Not to mention, it doesn't run with Nintendo's general blue ocean strategy of aiming to attain new players.
The game doesn't seem to benefit much from Lloyd's inclusion.

I know those are fighting words, but I'm 100% #TeamAgumon (or at least #TeamFightingGame #HeihachiIsntDead #SoulCaliburIsOkay

You can prefer other Namco choices, that's totally fine, but I don't see why Lloyd or any other Tales character would be a downgrade in comparison to other RPG characters already in Smash.

Even if Lloyd only appeals to Smash fans, which is obviously not the case... it's that wrong or something?
Banjo also appealed to Smash fans rather than attracting new fans to the game, and that doesn't mean he was a bad addition.

I honestly just think you're downplaying Lloyd with somewhat silly reasons only because you would rather other characters from Bandai Namco. And hey, not like that's a bad thing, but I don't believe dismissing Lloyd/Tales with random points will make Agumon, Heihachi or Nightmare more likely or popular within the Smash community like, at all.
I myself would probably rather have Heihachi or a Tekken character. And Dark Souls would excite me as well as a darkhorse pick. That doesn't mean Lloyd would feel a bad choice for me.

Digimon is a media franchise, that has overall earned more than Tales...and it's by a longshot. As far as game sales and as a media franchise, Tales doesn't compare. Even just in game sales, Digmon is above Dragon Quest, and only slightly below Final Fantasy.
I thought it was clear that my two opinions were not at all related. I don't think they have much to do with eachother.
I don't feel Byleth appealed to a 'new group, either, for that matter)
But I can make a lot of points as to why I think Agumon is a good choice. DIgimon is from a genre of gaming that was incredibly well known in the 90s, pocket pets. It's a character with a very obvious unique mechanic. He has a unique shape compared to any smash character, and silhouettes have not only been stated to be important, but are even a feature of how we recognize newcomers. Not to mention, half the Crash hype is based around rivalry....

Digimon has a reboot of it's series. Now is the time. It's truly not comparable to Lloyd, who- yes, now- I'm comparing as a weaker choice. This might not be a popular thought on a Smash echochamber, but from a business sense, Agumon is just the smarter move.

(Oh... as far as RPG character... I don't think that's fair to say. Digimon might have a lot of RPG games, but it has many other mainline games that are a variant of game genres. But I will at respect this point on the notion of it being an opinion).

I agree that you or anyone can mention points of why Agumon could be a good choice. But the same applies to Tales. People already pointed out that Tales is a popular and important JRPG franchise, specially in Japan. Lloyd is a popular request and that has been a thing for years. Smash 4 already had Tales content with Lloyd's Costume, so there's a precedent already for Smash x Tales.

I also don't think that going into the "X would be more wise from a business perspective" territory is going to benefit your argument a lot, because we have multiple precedents where clearly that point doesn't seem to matter that much: they could have chose Steve or Chief instead of going with Banjo the first time, they could have added a new Sonic character instead of going with Bayonetta or Joker, they could have added Lara Croft instead of Hero, they could have added a RE character and a Monster Hunter character instead of going with Megaman and Ryu, and so on.
Of course, each pick is a different case and Nintendo will have different reasons to have picked characters like Banjo or Cloud.

 

[SharkLord]

I mainly fear Lloyd because that might make things awkward with fellow ARPG character Adol, especially seeing as the newer games are fairly close to a 3D Tales game.

Quick, someone give me good Tales music so I can get sold on them and be fine with either series in Smash.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

I'm not certain for Tales to get a playable character at this point tbh but people are really forgetting the hard fact that the producer of Smash Ultimate (actually since Sm4sh) is Yo****o Higuchi himself, the directer/producer of Symphonia and Vesperia.

 

[Dinoman96]

I'm not certain for Tales to get a playable character at this point tbh but people are really forgetting the hard fact that the producer of Smash Ultimate (actually since Sm4sh) is Yo****o Higuchi himself, the directer/producer of Symphonia and Vesperia.

I don't think that means anything, though?

Remember: Sakurai said Namco isn't getting priority just because they're co-developing the game. Nintendo are also the ones selecting the characters, not Sakurai or Namco themselves, so I don't see how Higuchi being there changes anything.