Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[7NATOR]

With each FP2 fighter taking approximately 11 months, they probably would keep up with Steve-tier dev cycles just so the end of the pass is indeed by December 2021.

So if that's the case, the Development cycle looks like this?

2019: Start on Min-Min and Steve

2020: Finish Min-Min and Steve, Start on FP8, FP9, and a Little on FP10

2021: Start on FP11 and then finish the Rest of the Characters

"Dante's too complex, there's no way Sakurai would accurately incorporate everything he can do."

That's right. He won't.
Just like Bayonetta doesn't have:

• Animal Transformations
• Torture Attacks
• Dodge Offsetting
• Different Weapon Combinations
• Switching said weapons
• Aerial Wicked Weaves
• Literally all of Bayonetta's Accessory effects

And that's off the top of my head.

And maybe it's just me, but I don't see anyone complaining that Bayonetta isn't an accurate or faithful portrayal of the character.

I Don't think they'd incorporate Exactly Everything. Like I think they wouldn't Put in ALL the Sub-Weapons and QuickSilver or Dopplegander

But I think if you want to Make Dante as Awesome as he can be, You need to have some of the Re-Occurring Sub-Weapons and some Unique ones too like Nevan and Lucifer, Some of the Guns too, and have the mechanics of Style Switching, Devil Trigger, The General combo Structure of DMC Combo, and etc. I don't just see The Team Making Dante only use a Sword and his Pistols. even then, The fact he even has a Sword does make things Complicated

 

[Eldrake]

How would you guys feel about this being the final four? Ryu Hayabusa, Gordon Freeman, Crash Bandicoot, and Dante. It's my crazy prediction atm, lol. Though Geno and Master Chief remain alternative picks.

These four would boost my personal current rating of FP2 from 7/10 to 11/10.

 

[Guynamednelson]

So if that's the case, the Development cycle looks like this?

2019: Start on Min-Min and Steve

2020: Finish Min-Min and Steve, Start on FP8, FP9, and a Little on FP10

2021: Start on FP11 and then finish the Rest of the Characters

I was think more about the release months, which I predict as:

CP8: December 2020
CP9: May 2021(may be pushed back for E3/an equivalent)
CP10: September 2021
CP11: November 2021

 

[Sari]

I don't think that we're getting a Koei Tecmo rep anymore.

And why is that?

 

[7NATOR]

I was think more about the release months, which I predict as:

CP8: December 2020
CP9: May 2021(may be pushed back for E3/an equivalent)
CP10: September 2021
CP11: November 2021

I don't know about this Schedule honestly. It's not that Consistent

We go from a Almost 4 Month Period from Min-Min to Steve, to a 2 Month Period from Steve to FP8, to a 5 Month Period, to a 4 Month Period, to a 3 Month Period

FP1 was more Consistent in it's Release. It have delays with Joker, and Delays with Hero, but after Hero the characters came out in Consistent Periods.

I Imagine that FP8 would release Next year, but be Revealed this year. FP9 would Probably be released Around April or So. FP10 July, and then FP11 in October or early November

 

[Idon]

I Don't think they'd incorporate Exactly Everything. Like I think they wouldn't Put in ALL the Sub-Weapons and QuickSilver or Dopplegander

But I think if you want to Make Dante as Awesome as he can be, You need to have some of the Re-Occurring Sub-Weapons and some Unique ones too like Nevan and Lucifer, Some of the Guns too, and have the mechanics of Style Switching, Devil Trigger, The General combo Structure of DMC Combo, and etc. I don't just see The Team Making Dante only use a Sword and his Pistols. even then, The fact he even has a Sword does make things Complicated

It honestly sounds to me you're just putting an unreachably high bar just to justify why you don't think Dante is in.

Literally no other character is held to this standard you're putting up.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And why is that?

You know why.

I don't know about this Schedule honestly. It's not that Consistent

We go from a Almost 4 Month Period from Min-Min to Steve, to a 2 Month Period from Steve to FP8, to a 5 Month Period, to a 4 Month Period, to a 3 Month Period

FP1 was more Consistent in it's Release. It have delays with Joker, and Delays with Hero, but after Hero the characters came out in Consistent Periods.

I Imagine that FP8 would release Next year, but be Revealed this year. FP9 would Probably be released Around April or So. FP10 July, and then FP11 in October or early November

It's not about each fighter coming out in a consistent time period. It's about each remaining fighter being worked on for 11 months. Terry came out in November 2019, then the team that worked on him made Steve, who is being released this month. Byleth came out in January, so by December, the division that worked on them would have worked on a fighter for as long as Steve was worked on.

 

[blackghost]

After Min Min and Steve, it'll take a lot to convince me that the developers are shying away from complicated characters.

i would say devs (particularly Sakurai WANT a challenge: I'm gonna make a moveset for a plant, im gonna make MC steve an edge guard character, im gonna make a boxer that fights long distance, ect)
dante as a character always has a bunch of moves and sakurai has been implementing new ways to add moves to characters: moves that unlock after damage thresholds,moves behind two buttons, moves under inputs, back specials, air only attacks, ground only attacks, moves with holding butons down, moves with hard caps on usage, switching weapons mid match, and now a character that sets up platforms and walls on demand.
out of all new character DLC across two games every single one came with some new type of move or special

"Dante's too complex, there's no way Sakurai would accurately incorporate everything he can do."

That's right. He won't.
Just like Bayonetta doesn't have:

• Animal Transformations
• Torture Attacks
• Dodge Offsetting
• Different Weapon Combinations
• Switching said weapons
• Aerial Wicked Weaves
• Literally all of Bayonetta's Accessory effects

And that's off the top of my head.

And maybe it's just me, but I don't see anyone complaining that Bayonetta isn't an accurate or faithful portrayal of the character.

on the contrary, people complained Bayonetta was TOO accurate to her canon self. Sakurai has Hero and FE characters using endgame weapons and bayo cant have her sword from level one of her first and second games. LOL

 

[SNEKeater]

How would you guys feel about this being the final four? Ryu Hayabusa, Gordon Freeman, Crash Bandicoot, and Dante. It's my crazy prediction atm, lol. Though Geno and Master Chief remain alternative picks.

I'd really like this scenario. And besides, I think FP2 would make a good balance between realistic characters (Dante, Gordon, Hayabusa) and cartoony characters (Min Min, Steve, Crash. I know this isn't really a problem but I just thought about this when seeing your pic, there was some people being disappointed because for them the first Pass had too many humanoid characters.

I know Min Min would qualify as humanoid for some, but I still would consider her a cartoony character.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I really don't think we're gonna get a VGA reveal. I'm thinking January with March being the latest.

 

[Lamperouge]

How would you guys feel about this being the final four? Ryu Hayabusa, Gordon Freeman, Crash Bandicoot, and Dante. It's my crazy prediction atm, lol. Though Geno and Master Chief remain alternative picks.

Dante alone would make the pass a 10/10 for me.

 

[7NATOR]

It honestly sounds to me you're just putting an unreachably high bar just to justify why you don't think Dante is in.

Literally no other character is held to this standard you're putting up.

I'll be honest, it is kinda Personal

Dante isn't my Most wanted, but He's actually the character I would be Most Excited to see that's Commonly Speculated. The thing is that I want him to be as Cool as he can be. I just think that having Dante only use his Sword and Gun would take some of the Flavor of Dante being in Smash, especially since people Talk about Dante having "ALL This Potential"

Even without the other Weapons, I'm just worried about him being a Combo Based character that has a Disjointed Sword, Lots of Versatlity with Styles, a Transformation that boosts Stats, among other things. That is alot of Balancing.

I'm not saying he's Impossible, And I actually think The Smash team can get him to work, even with the Other Weapons, But The question is whether they are willing to Do that when there are other characters that would be Easier to Implement. I'm actually more coming around to Dante being Playable because of Steve, but I'm not holding my Breath

You know why.

It's not about each fighter coming out in a consistent time period. It's about each remaining fighter being worked on for 11 months. Terry came out in November 2019, then the team that worked on him made Steve, who is being released this month. Byleth came out in January, so by December, the division that worked on them would have worked on a fighter for as long as Steve was worked on.

What about the Team that worked on Banjo though. I thought Characters were mad in teams of 3, and that could have changed with FP2 probably having a Smaller Team, but it's something to Consider

 

[Freduardo]

We got four characters left.

This game has definitely had Sakurai grant fandom requests (Banjo, Ridley, K. Rool).

We know the season pass can be massive third party surprises or overdue nintendo characters (ARMs rep).

We know we STILL haven't seen the mii costumes for Geno and Lloyd (and I think that's it).

So obviously the remaining fighter pass is this:

Spoiler

Fighter 1: Arvis (Fire Emblem IV)
Fighter 2: Lefi (Fire Emblem V)
Fighter 3: Hector (Fire Emblem VII)
Fighter 4: Ephraigm (Fire Emblem VIII)

---

Aaaaalright, maybe not.

Fighter 1: Geno
Fighter 2: Crash Bandicoot (with Crash 4 on Switch announcement)
Fighter 3: Multi-Tales of character
Fighter 4: Dr. Pirahna Plant[ Dr. Goomba Tower/spoiler]

 

[SharkLord]

We got four characters left.

This game has definitely had Sakurai grant fandom requests (Banjo, Ridley, K. Rool).

We know the season pass can be massive third party surprises or overdue nintendo characters (ARMs rep).

We know we STILL haven't seen the mii costumes for Geno and Lloyd (and I think that's it).

So obviously the remaining fighter pass is this:

Spoiler

Fighter 1: Arvis (Fire Emblem IV)
Fighter 2: Lefi (Fire Emblem V)
Fighter 3: Hector (Fire Emblem VII)
Fighter 4: Ephraigm (Fire Emblem VIII)

---

Aaaaalright, maybe not.

Fighter 1: Geno
Fighter 2: Crash Bandicoot (with Crash 4 on Switch announcement)
Fighter 3: Multi-Tales of character
Fighter 4: Dr. Pirahna Plant[ Dr. Goomba Tower/spoiler]

Spoiler

Seeing the Fire Emblem games numbered is severely ****ing with my head.

 

[SKX31]

How would you guys feel about this being the final four? Ryu Hayabusa, Gordon Freeman, Crash Bandicoot, and Dante. It's my crazy prediction atm, lol. Though Geno and Master Chief remain alternative picks.

Would not mind those four one bit. While only Dante ranks amongst my most wanted, and Gordon is not my most wanted Valve representative (then again, said most-wanted is near-impossible) I'd honestly eagerly take those four.

We got four characters left.

This game has definitely had Sakurai grant fandom requests (Banjo, Ridley, K. Rool).

We know the season pass can be massive third party surprises or overdue nintendo characters (ARMs rep).

We know we STILL haven't seen the mii costumes for Geno and Lloyd (and I think that's it).

So obviously the remaining fighter pass is this:

Spoiler

Fighter 1: Arvis (Fire Emblem IV)
Fighter 2: Lefi (Fire Emblem V)
Fighter 3: Hector (Fire Emblem VII)
Fighter 4: Ephraigm (Fire Emblem VIII)

---

Aaaaalright, maybe not.

Fighter 1: Geno
Fighter 2: Crash Bandicoot (with Crash 4 on Switch announcement)
Fighter 3: Multi-Tales of character
Fighter 4: Dr. Pirahna Plant[ Dr. Goomba Tower/spoiler]

Swap anyone of those 4... 8? whatever with this thing of beauty and I'm gucci:

 

[Sari]

You know why.

I seriously don't.

Unless it's the thing about Ryza getting deconfirmed which basically means nothing for other KOEI-Tecmo characters like Hayabusa. The company that made the game is only a subdivision of KOEI-Tecmo so there's a good chance that if a Hayabusa deal was made then Junzo Hosoi wouldn't know about it.

 

[RileyXY1]

I seriously don't.

Unless it's the thing about Ryza getting deconfirmed which basically means nothing for other KOEI-Tecmo characters like Hayabusa. The company that made the game is only a subdivision of KOEI-Tecmo so there's a good chance that if a Hayabusa deal was made then Junzo Hosoi would know about it.

Ninja Gaiden is M-rated so it would be extremely difficult to promote him in North America.

 

[7NATOR]

Ninja Gaiden is M-rated so it would be extremely difficult to promote him in North America.

Well the good thing about Ninja Gaiden is that unlike many other M-Series, there's a whole Trilogy of games that aren't M Rated, so they showcase more of the Old NES games than the Modern Trilogy

 

[RileyXY1]

Well the good thing about Ninja Gaiden is that unlike many other M-Series, there's a whole Trilogy of games that aren't M Rated, so they showcase more of the Old NES games than the Modern Trilogy

That won't work unless Hayabusa exclusively takes after the NES games and there is absolutely no representation of the modern games whatsoever.

 

[MooMew64]

Ninja Gaiden is M-rated so it would be extremely difficult to promote him in North America.

It would be very easy to just use the logo of the original games to promote him, honestly. The ESRB changes are a non-issue for M-rated characters: IMO, I don't think a single splash screen is that important to the overall marketing and release of a fighter.

 

[TwiceEXE]

I was briefly looking through the best selling video game series to see what mega sellers aren't in Smash, and I am absolutely floored by how (comparatively) low the sales of Doom are. For such an influential game/series the numbers are just not there, I suppose that's what happens when a franchise goes on hiatus for so long.

Anyway, Tomb Raider is much bigger than I remembered. People still consider Lara a Western character, I assume? Or is it like Steve where people don't call him an Indy because the rights have moved to a different company?

 

[RileyXY1]

It would be very easy to just use the logo of the original games to promote him, honestly. The ESRB changes are a non-issue for M-rated characters: IMO, I don't think a single splash screen is that important to the overall marketing and release of a fighter.

It would get less people excited and put all the focus on Ryu himself instead of his franchise. I'm predicting that there will be no M-rated characters in FP2 whatsoever.

 

[SharkLord]

Ninja Gaiden is M-rated so it would be extremely difficult to promote him in North America.

Oh no, we are NOT going through this one again.

 

[SKX31]

It would get less people excited and put all the focus on Ryu himself instead of his franchise. I'm predicting that there will be no M-rated characters in FP2 whatsoever.

Am I getting the strangest case of deja vu here...?

Wouldn't matter really when they've done "x Altair" and "x Vault Boy" in the past. A lot of people would get confused by that and quite a lot of people would just google the character (as happened with those two cases) - thus there'd be more activity.

Buuut that's all I'm going to say on this matter.

 

[7NATOR]

That won't work unless Hayabusa exclusively takes after the NES games and there is absolutely no representation of the modern games whatsoever.

I think he can still have Elements of the Modern Trilogy. they just Can't be Mentioned at all, Otherwise we wouldn't be able to get M-Rated Mii costumes like Travis

I was briefly looking through the best selling video game series to see what mega sellers aren't in Smash, and I am absolutely floored by how (comparatively) low the sales of Doom are. For such an influential game/series the numbers are just not there, I suppose that's what happens when a franchise goes on hiatus for so long.

Anyway, Tomb Raider is much bigger than I remembered. People still consider Lara a Western character, I assume? Or is it like Steve where people don't call him an Indy because the rights have moved to a different company?

honestly, Didn't alot of People Play Doom for Free even back in the day?

and yeah Lara still is considered Western character, despite being owned by Square

 

[RileyXY1]

I think he can still have Elements of the Modern Trilogy. they just Can't be Mentioned at all, Otherwise we wouldn't be able to get M-Rated Mii costumes like Travis



honestly, Didn't alot of People Play Doom for Free even back in the day?

and yeah Lara still is considered Western character, despite being owned by Square

Doom was, but only the first episode: Knee Deep in the Dead.

 

[SharkLord]

I was briefly looking through the best selling video game series to see what mega sellers aren't in Smash, and I am absolutely floored by how (comparatively) low the sales of Doom are. For such an influential game/series the numbers are just not there, I suppose that's what happens when a franchise goes on hiatus for so long.

Anyway, Tomb Raider is much bigger than I remembered. People still consider Lara a Western character, I assume? Or is it like Steve where people don't call him an Indy because the rights have moved to a different company?

I'd imagine a large part of Doom's benefits was the shareware era and the modding community, since the code was just leaked onto the internet. I'd say it's sorta like Touhou in that it's a mainly PC-focused game that gets a lot of it's popularity from the fandom rather than the game, but A: There's probably some specifics I don't know about, and B: Doom would later grow out of that with the more recent games, while Touhou still runs off of the fandom.

 

[Schnee117]

They're not going to reject a character because they can't show a logo in one region of the world.
We went over this stupid argument already.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I seriously don't.

Unless it's the thing about Ryza getting deconfirmed which basically means nothing for other KOEI-Tecmo characters like Hayabusa. The company that made the game is only a subdivision of KOEI-Tecmo so there's a good chance that if a Hayabusa deal was made then Junzo Hosoi wouldn't know about it.

Riley has a tendency to doubt every single video game character in existence.

What about the Team that worked on Banjo though. I thought Characters were mad in teams of 3, and that could have changed with FP2 probably having a Smaller Team, but it's something to Consider

The team that worked on Banjo worked on Min Min for a little over 8 months, while Banjo was from February-August, 7 months. So I guess they'll be working on a slightly simpler character and their next character will have a dev cycle from July-April, 10 months instead of the 11 I'm estimating.

 

[TwiceEXE]

They're not going to reject a character because they can't show a logo in one region of the world.
We went over this stupid argument already.

Exactly. They didn't stop advertising Joker in the first fighter pass, they removed the game logos and moved on. That's the whole basis of the M Theory. That is, theoretically NoA is avoiding game logos on the second fighter pass for the same reason as the first.

 

[RileyXY1]

Exactly. They didn't stop advertising Joker in the first fighter pass, they removed the game logos and moved on. That's the whole basis of the M Theory. That is, theoretically NoA is avoiding game logos on the second fighter pass for the same reason as the first.

The game logos weren't removed until Byleth was revealed.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

About Dante, I don't think his moveset need to be that complex. What I think they could do is have the style switching mechanic as a Shield+B (similar to Inkling ink and Steve crafting table). Depending of his style, some of his B are different or have different properties. Neutral stay mostly the same. As musch as I would like to have a full moveset with King cerberus, Dr. faust, Cavaliere, Yamato, Agni & Rudra, Nevan and many others that I've forgot... Yeah we probably won't have that. But I don't really se why that would hold Dante off. Like Samus have a bunch of power ups from super Metroid that she never use in Smash like the Spazer, the Ice beam or the Speed booster. To name a more recent example, Hero don't use every spell in DQ, so I don't know why people are expecting Dante to use every weapon in DMC.

 

[TwiceEXE]

The game logos weren't removed until Byleth was revealed.

Yes, you pointed out when Nintendo stopped showing logos. That was also when we saw our first Mii Costume with a different logo per region.

 

[RileyXY1]

And besides, I think that Sakurai might have had enough of complex fighters after Steve.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Well the good thing about Ninja Gaiden is that unlike many other M-Series, there's a whole Trilogy of games that aren't M Rated, so they showcase more of the Old NES games than the Modern Trilogy

I think Hayabusa would likely take after both equally, potentially having a new design for Smash entirely.

 

[I.D.]

And besides, I think that Sakurai might have had enough of complex fighters after Steve.

There are still over 14 months left on this ride.

 

[Slime Master]

The ESRB changes seemed to happen between Terry and Byleth, well after FP2 would have been finalized. They wouldn't remove a character that had already been negotiated for over this.

 

[7NATOR]

About Dante, I don't think his moveset need to be that complex. What I think they could do is have the style switching mechanic as a Shield+B (similar to Inkling ink and Steve crafting table). Depending of his style, some of his B are different or have different properties. Neutral stay mostly the same. As musch as I would like to have a full moveset with King cerberus, Dr. faust, Cavaliere, Yamato, Agni & Rudra, Nevan and many others that I've forgot... Yeah we probably won't have that. But I don't really se why that would hold Dante off. Like Samus have a bunch of power ups from super Metroid that she never use in Smash like the Spazer, the Ice beam or the Speed booster. To name a more recent example, Hero don't use every spell in DQ, so I don't know why people are expecting Dante to use every weapon in DMC.

I just hope if they add him in, They have more than The Sword and Guns. Not every Weapon needs to be In there, but just having some cool ones like Nevan, Lucifer, The Gauntler Weapons, Cereberus, and maybe some Extra guns Like Coyote, Artemis, Pandora (Well Actually I don't think we'd get Pandora at all)

I want Dante to have as much Swag as he does in the DMC games, and Apart of that is him using the Weapons he gets from Defeating the Demons in DMC. It's an Iconic Part of the Franchise. I'm not worried about Style Switching and Devil Trigger Cause I Know they would add that

But like i said, I think Implementing all of that could be a challenge. That's why I say Dante's chances depends on whether Sakurai and the Team is Willing to work on Dante, because I know they can

 

[Cosmic77]

If there is an M-rated character in this pass, I do think it'd be odd not to add the franchise logo or a logo from one of the games. Mii Costumes are one thing, but imagine "Dante" being the label for whatever stage they choose on the stage selection screen.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or another. Yeah, it does sound pretty stupid, but you also have to admit that it doesn't sound incredibly difficult to go four more characters without getting one from an M-rated franchise.

 

[RileyXY1]

If there is an M-rated character in this pass, I do think it'd be odd not to add the franchise logo or a logo from one of the games. Mii Costumes are one thing, but imagine "Dante" being the label for whatever stage they choose on the stage selection screen.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or another. Yeah, it does sound pretty stupid, but you also have to admit that it doesn't sound incredibly difficult to go four more characters without getting one from an M-rated franchise.

It's really only for North America and would be extremely jarring.