Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well, if Sakurai could put him in this game, there must be simplicity. Just saying. Not saying this won't be complicated at all, but even if he is complicated, at least Sakurai might have tried, right? That won't make Steve any better, of course, but still...

In control scheme sure, but there will be a lot of things to think about like with Shulk.

Also, complex != bad either imo.

I've seen people praising the choice to make Steve look as if he's just been directly imported from Minecraft, and I don't doubt their sincerity, but I've known this fanbase for a long time, and I have every confidence that had they brought him slightly more in line with Smash's aesthetic, as usual, that decision would be praised just as readily.

Honestly, I'm going to need to see more footage. I haven't seen screenshot where I think Steve and Alex don't look great, but the others do seem to stick out on the stage sometimes.

 

[CannonStreak]

In control scheme sure, but there will be a lot of things to think about like with Shulk.

Also, complex != bad either imo.


Honestly, I'm going to need to see more footage. I haven't seen screenshot where I think Steve and Alex don't look great, but the others do seem to stick out on the stage sometimes.

Yeah, I do like Shulk. Still, while complex is not bad, it does depend on some people.

You can only compare Smash characters to each other, and from what we've seen, Steve does look like he resides on the more complex end.

My bad. I said there must be simplicity when I meant there must be SOME simplicity, as in some things may be simple, but still has some, or maybe in this case, a lot of complexity. I did not mean it would be all simple. I wonder how I left that out?

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think it’s important to note that the video a few days ago was again filmed at Sakurai’s house and so will the Sakurai Presents. Many companies in Japan extended the “stay at home orders” for thier companies will past the opening of schools, government buildings, and such on June 1st. Places like Disney World, amusement parks, theaters, and more started opening up a week or two later with everything opened up by summer vacation in August. I surmise that these videos were probably recorded in June or possibly July. A lot of companies are choosing to stay home not because they have to but to set an image for the public - especially companies like the richest company in Japan currently.

Thanks for that info, Venus! I now convinced myself echoes will happen simply because they require very little- a new model, some stat balancing based on the changes, new aesthetic based on their changes, maybe a new animation for an attack or the final win screen....and bam! This is super simple for a smaller team, working from home, individually.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Did I miss anything of interest?

 

[Idon]

Did I miss anything of interest?

Yeah Steve from Minecraft was revealed as a character yesterday.

 

[N3ON]

Honestly, I'm going to need to see more footage. I haven't seen screenshot where I think Steve and Alex don't look great, but the others do seem to stick out on the stage sometimes.

Well, I'm just speaking design-wise for the characters, and we've already seen those designs.

I haven't really seen enough of the stage to come to a verdict on it, yet. But it is true that stages do have a history of taking a bit more liberty in eschewing the Smash aesthetic for their own. Like the 8-bit ones.

My bad. I said there must be simplicity when I meant there must be SOME simplicity, as in some things may be simple, but still has some, or maybe in this case, a lot of complexity. I did not mean it would be all simple. I wonder how I left that out?

I don't think any character in Smash is complex to the extent that they become obtuse at a foundational level. Even the most complex ones. Because that's not what Smash is, it's designed to be simple. I'm just saying that among Smash characters, I think Steve will lean more towards complexity than simplicity.

 

[Wigglerman]

I've seen people praising the choice to make Steve look as if he's just been directly imported from Minecraft, and I don't doubt their sincerity, but I've known this fanbase for a long time, and I have every confidence that had they brought him slightly more in line with Smash's aesthetic, as usual, that decision would be praised just as readily.

Oh for sure, I'm certain it's reasonable to assume he'd be just as loved if 'prettied up'. All I know is, on a persona level, he is going to take some serious getting used to seeing in this game as he stands now. :o Tis a weird moment for Smash but I AM happy for the Steve supporters. The character looks like he's required a LOT of work to make playable and interesting. Won't take away from the fact the character is likely going to need a handbook on how to play proper and there's no room to claim he is boring/unoriginal in his moveset. He just has a butterface.

 

[CannonStreak]

Man, now I am starting to think that while I think it was in character for him, Steve looking and being animated the way he was in Ultimate may not have been a good idea. I don't think many other ways would have been better, but still, you should know what I mean.

I don't think any character in Smash is complex to the extent that they become obtuse at a foundational level. Even the most complex ones. Because that's not what Smash is, it's designed to be simple. I'm just saying that among Smash characters, I think Steve will lean more towards complexity than simplicity.

Yeah, I see. Well, that won't mean he is bad or not fun to play as in the end, probably as SMAASH! Puppy probably said, at least on the bad part.

 

[Cosmic77]

Personally, I really don't care that much about improving the quality of Steve's model.

You could probably show me several pictures of what we could've gotten instead and convince me that there are better ways Sakurai could've implemented this, but I'm perfectly fine with what we have. Yeah, maybe Steve does stick out a little, but as far as I can see, Smash Steve looks like Minecraft Steve.

 

[N3ON]

Oh for sure, I'm certain it's reasonable to assume he'd be just as loved if 'prettied up'. All I know is, on a persona level, he is going to take some serious getting used to seeing in this game as he stands now. :o Tis a weird moment for Smash but I AM happy for the Steve supporters. The character looks like he's required a LOT of work to make playable and interesting. Won't take away from the fact the character is likely going to need a handbook on how to play proper and there's no room to claim he is boring/unoriginal in his moveset. He just has a butterface.

Yeah, there are an innumerable amount of Minecraft fans out there, and I'm happy they got a character for themselves.

I just wished he looked a bit less like a mod. Embracing Smash's art style certainly doesn't preclude still being faithfully represented.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We doing newcomer rankings?
Popped the **** off
Loved them and regularly play
Respectable
Eh...
Absolutely disgusting

 

[Idon]

Yeah, there are an innumerable amount of Minecraft fans out there, and I'm happy they got a character for themselves.

I just wished he looked a bit less like a mod. Embracing Smash's art style certainly doesn't preclude still being faithfully represented.

Reminds me of the time they used this one sprite for Morrigan across all her appearances for several years.

Which lead to some artstyle clash like this:

So now we have a spiritual successor to that in this:

 

[SKX31]

Oh for sure, I'm certain it's reasonable to assume he'd be just as loved if 'prettied up'. All I know is, on a persona level, he is going to take some serious getting used to seeing in this game as he stands now. :o Tis a weird moment for Smash but I AM happy for the Steve supporters. The character looks like he's required a LOT of work to make playable and interesting. Won't take away from the fact the character is likely going to need a handbook on how to play proper and there's no room to claim he is boring/unoriginal in his moveset. He just has a butterface.

Yeah, there are an innumerable amount of Minecraft fans out there, and I'm happy they got a character for themselves.

I just wished he looked a bit less like a mod. Embracing Smash's art style certainly doesn't preclude still being faithfully represented.

Okay, I'm going to hardcore speculate here:

I'm starting to believe that one major reason why Steve looks very basic is because Sakurai's team had to redesign every single stage to allow for the blocks as well as account for the different biomes. He did complain about that in the message (and when he said glasses I'm inclined to believe the person who made the request was Furukawa - you know, Nintendo's President and Sakurai's boss. And not just because he wears glasses.).

As such, the simplicity of porting over a straight model from the game itself might've very well been a time and work-saving measure. Especially now with the stay-at-home orders and everything. As stated previously, Sakurai might also like it, so that might be a factor too.

 

[Wigglerman]

Ranking the newcomers discussion?

I rank them all in the S tier. Even Byleth has grown on me and I wasn't enthused at all initially. But overall Ultimate has been a near 10/10 for me and I'm eager to see the final incoming fighters.

I put Steve at A but solely on petty point reductions in his cheap visual presentation but mechanically looks to be a very interesting character.

 

[Thewafflemaker2000]

What did steve ever do to get kicked out the indie club?

 

[Deleted member]

What did steve ever do to get kicked out the indie club?

Get bought out by a multibillion dollar company

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What did steve ever do to get kicked out the indie club?

Become legal property of a huge ass corporation

 

[Goombaic]

What did steve ever do to get kicked out the indie club?

Be bought by Microsoft.

 

[Schnee117]

What did steve ever do to get kicked out the indie club?

The same thing Banjo did to get kicked out of the Nintendo club

 

[N3ON]

Okay, I'm going to hardcore speculate here:

I'm starting to believe that one major reason why Steve looks very basic is because Sakurai's team had to redesign every single stage to allow for the blocks as well as account for the different biomes. He did complain about that in the message (and when he said glasses I'm inclined to believe the person who made the request was Furukawa - you know, Nintendo's President and Sakurai's boss. And not just because he wears glasses.).

As such, the simplicity of porting over a straight model from the game itself might've very well been a time and work-saving measure. Especially now with the stay-at-home orders and everything. As stated previously, Sakurai might also like it, so that might be a factor too.

Well, they did import Min Min's model too, didn't they? Though they cleaned it up a bit. Thankfully, ARMS and Smash have similar aesthetics.

But on the other hand, creating a model can't be that hard. Every wave we get a handful of new models in the Miis. And some of the DLC characters even debuted new models just as background characters, like Banjo and, afaik, Joker.

Plus, all things considered, shifting Minecraft Steve to Smash Steve would only entail fairly minimal alterations, when compared to some of the other characters they've modelled. And I bet you there is some small difference somewhere - indicating some changes were made.

It does seem like this character was quite work and resource intensive, I just don't think the actual character model is the area they'd choose to skimp on. It's one of the most important aspects. It does seem like it was a deliberate artistic choice to me, just one I wish they'd not made.

 

[skylanders fan]

Same thing as if a Walmart bought a local mom and pop store. It wouldn’t be local it would be Walmart

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, you can't call Steve "Indie" when he's directly owned by Microsoft. He started Indie yes, but once you get bought by a massive company, it's impossible to call oneself "indie" anymore.


Indie stands for Independent, which, Mojang definitely isn't anymore.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Here are my rankings for newcomers

I win:
That's cool:
No reaction:
Lame:(Steve)
I'm angry:
Echo fighters:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Reminds me of the time they used this one sprite for Morrigan across all her appearances for several years.

If it is at all feasible, I would love to see this referenced in Super Smash Bros. via one of her alternate costumes.

I personally think they could by just making her model invisible and putting the sprites in its place, though it might require some new sprites added to the spritesheet.

 

[Trevenant]

I see. Well, I don't think Steve looks complicated. Well, that is subject to change, as we have not seen in detail how he plays and such. I guess we'll find out tomorrow. To be honest, though, even I hope he isn't complicated.

Steve is definitely complicated. He seems to be able to mine stuff from the ground, block placement and crafting. He probably has stuff we still haven't seen yet. He is probably going to be similar to Min Min in terms of complexity.

 

[N3ON]

Reminds me of the time they used this one sprite for Morrigan across all her appearances for several years.
View attachment 288022

Which lead to some artstyle clash like this:
View attachment 288023

So now we have a spiritual successor to that in this:
View attachment 288024

Heh yeah, it was funny how recycled the sprite became... but again, to call it jarring would not be unfounded.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me stuff like that breaks the immersion somewhat.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Steve is definitely complicated. He seems to be able to mine stuff from the ground, block placement and crafting. He probably has stuff we still haven't seen yet. He is probably going to be similar to Min Min in terms of complexity.

Eh, Min Min's complexity came in her control scheme, not her moves and the **** she's able to do with them. Steve has such a ridiculous amount of moves that we can't grasp how the hell Steve works to the point we need the presentation to explain

 

[TwiceEXE]

So what I'm hearing is that Cuphead isn't an indie costume and everyone who claimed it was is dead wrong? So Sans is the only indie content we've received so far.

 

[N3ON]

So what I'm hearing is that Cuphead isn't an indie costume and everyone who claimed it was is dead wrong? So Sans is the only indie content we've received so far.

Cuphead is indie because the IP is self-owned by Studio MDHR. Microsoft just owned the rights to that one title. They wouldn't have been necessary to get Cuphead in Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Since we're talking about how weird Steve's kit is, I'd like to make a friendly reminder that Steve's minecart doubles as a freaking command grab projectile thing.

EDIT: For everyone's sake I hope it's a hit-grab.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Cuphead is indie because the IP is self-owned by Studio MDHR. Microsoft just owned the rights to that one title. They wouldn't have been necessary to get Cuphead in Smash.

Ahh, I wasn't aware of that nuance. Thanks

 

[Mushroomguy12]

What did steve ever do to get kicked out the indie club?

Have his game become the best selling game of all time? Kind of like Amazon isn't really a start up bookstore anymore.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I wonder if the reason Steve looks the way he does is because Mojang has some limits on what he can look like.

 

[MooMew64]

I totally respect that people don't like Steve's visual presentation, but I honestly was hoping he'd look the way he does now, TBH. I wouldn't have minded them modernizing him, don't get me wrong, but I would not like that as much as he actually turned out.

 

[Schnee117]

So what I'm hearing is that Cuphead isn't an indie costume and everyone who claimed it was is dead wrong? So Sans is the only indie content we've received so far.

Cuphead's still indie, Microsoft just helped Studio MDHR with publishing, they don't own them just yet.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Steve's minecart doubles as a freaking command grab.

And it was at that moment in the trailer when I said, “I wanna main him.”

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

This might be weird, but I think Alex looks significantly better than Steve. Just something about how the pixels are organized looks more clean.

Since we're talking about how weird Steve's kit is, I'd like to make a friendly reminder that Steve's minecart doubles as a freaking command grab.

He's also apparently our first proper install character and a resource management character on top of it all.

 

[Shroob]

Since we're talking about how weird Steve's kit is, I'd like to make a friendly reminder that Steve's minecart doubles as a freaking command grab projectile thing.

EDIT: For everyone's sake I hope it's a hit-grab.

Like it or not

When that hits you


You are going to Minecraft now

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This might be weird, but I think Alex looks significantly better than Steve. Just something about how the pixels are organized looks more clean.

It's not weird at all. Steve always looked pretty rough around the edges. I think it's his darker skin tone combined with what's supposed to be a 5:00 shadow...I think.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

So a new game. From best to worst. How would you guys rate and list every newcomer as of current?

The criteria here for rating them best to worst are unclear, but I'm assuming you mean my favorite or most liked/used characters. I'll go with that assumption. I might do another more specific version of this question (and my accompanying opinion) after this.

1. Banjo & Kazooie
2. Ridley
3. Steve
4. Terry
5. King K. Rool
6. Simon
7. Dark Samus
8. Chrom
9. Min Min
10. Ken
11. Inkling
12. Richter
13. Hero
14. Byleth
15. Joker
16. Daisy
17. Isabelle
18. Incineroar
19. Piranha Plant

I did this using the Favorite Picker app on the Play Store. It was decided by who would I choose between each pair of fighters.