Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That's fine - I'm not here trying to guess who is steadfast in their belief that this is preferable and who would be saying the same either way. Who specifically isn't really the point. And like I said, there are people who would maintain that one specific version is better regardless.

I just believe that in the timeline in which we got the other version, some of the same people would be defending that as the ideal choice.

Alright. Just as long as you're not disregarding my argument as a whole because some or many might not take the stance genuinely.

 

[RGFS]

I was kind of expecting their promotional art versions to be an alt. I never thought it would be a good choice for the main alt since Smash Bros as a series always gives characters more detail. Even if that smoother version of Steve was the default look, I could almost see Steve still adopting the more textured look in Smash.

 

[Droodle]

Even disregarding someone like Geno, what are the chances that Steve comes with new Mario costumes? Banjo came with entirely unrelated costumes, Mario was featured heavily in the trailer, and it's still Mario's 35th anniversary. We could get something like the Bee costumes from Galaxy, Wing hat from Mario 64, Cat costume from 3D World, etc.

 

[Nemuresu]

Reminds me of the time they used this one sprite for Morrigan across all her appearances for several years.
View attachment 288022

Which lead to some artstyle clash like this:
View attachment 288023

So now we have a spiritual successor to that in this:
View attachment 288024

At least one could argue Steve's design is fitting with the Minecraft world and thus, a redesign would've made no sense for Smash. Morrigan on the other hand, had no excuse to not get a new spriteset for the CvS titles, and I certainly don't buy into the "excuses" Capcom could have to recycle her like that; it certainly couldn't be out of a feel of taking a step back from the original version, since technically speaking, Ryu, Chun and all the other veterans re-sprited for the games are all inferior to their CPS2 and CPS3 iterations; it also couldn't be because of the sprites' quality, as by that point, her sprites were pretty much outdated compared to other CPS2-styled characters like Jill. Really, Steve looks pretty fine compared to that issue.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I was kind of expecting their promotional art versions to be an alt. I never thought it would be a good choice for the main alt since Smash Bros as a series always gives characters more detail. Even if that smoother version of Steve was the default look, I could almost see Steve still adopting the more textured look in Smash.

If they were going to change the design, I think taking the Shovel Knight style approach of "looking like you remember it" would be better than the plasticy promo look.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Even disregarding someone like Geno, what are the chances that Steve comes with new Mario costumes? Banjo came with entirely unrelated costumes, Mario was featured heavily in the trailer, and it's still Mario's 35th anniversary. We could get something like the Bee costumes from Galaxy, Wing hat from Mario 64, Cat costume from 3D World, etc.

It's somewhere around a 17.4% chance based on my calculations.

Jokes aside, I think it may be possible. I'm not expecting anything from Microsoft (except for maybe Minecraft stuff) based on the complete lack of costumes alongside Banjo.

 

[toonito]

Reminds me of the time they used this one sprite for Morrigan across all her appearances for several years.
View attachment 288022

Which lead to some artstyle clash like this:
View attachment 288023

So now we have a spiritual successor to that in this:
View attachment 288024

Steve looks fine IMO

The mish mash of characters who aren't supposed to fit is part of Smash's appeal

If Morrigan ever got in Smash is it wrong that I want that sprite to be one of her alts LMAO

 

[N3ON]

Alright. Just as long as you're not disregarding my argument as a whole because some or many might not take the stance genuinely.

Well I mean, you did kinda disregard three of my paragraphs about Mojang and the fanbase as a whole to instead restate your opinion on Steve.

But I didn't disregard your argument. My point was just never about the feelings of a sole person.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If Morrigan ever got in Smash is it wrong that I want that sprite to be one of her alts LMAO

I've already brought up the concept multiple times, and there was never any opposition to it. I think most people would love it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

If Morrigan ever got in Smash is it wrong that I want that sprite to be one of her alts LMAO

The only way I can see them doing such a thing is by having one of her alts have a black outline, flat textures, and the same cel-shading used on Wireframe Mac's clothes. And I say do it.

 

[SNEKeater]

I mean, if you like using evidence that's faulty because it only takes into consideration the English fanbase sure,

Like, on that image, Hero's on the lower end, where he basically dwarfs everyone else, even Steve currently in Japan. She's basically sitting at 4th place, which, while not bad, still puts Hero, Banjo, and Steve all above her, and Steve will definitely continue to climb.

Also, the Byleth hate was MUCH less in Japan if we're doing the whole like/dislike thing. You can see it, but it's nowhere near as extreme in the West.


The picture, while accurate, is flawed, since it only covers, ya know, half the fanbase. MinMin did well, no doubt, but I also believe that against another big powername like Crash or Master Chief, she'd be crushed easily.

I think context is also important.
For example, Joker was the first DLC and was a complete surprise. No leaks. Then you have Min Min, which came out after Byleth which was divisive, and Min Min also was the first character in 5-6 months. Not to mention the 3 months of ARMS speculation...

I saw SourceGaming's video on what they expect for the future of DLC, and for the most part I agree. I think there will at least be 1 more 1st party (I lean towards 2 more), and 2-3 more third parties. However, I disagreed with their thought that the next character is probably a big fan request "because we haven't gotten one yet, so Geno, Rayman, Dante, Crash etc should be next". I've also seen a similar thought on other places as well.

STEVE IS THE BIG FAN REQUEST. I feel like the long lasting narrative of "Steve is a meme pick", has pretty much overwritten most people's thoughts on Steve actually being a decently popular pick since the Smash 4 days. Obviously he wasn't dominating polls like Banjo, but especially in the West Steve always placed high in most polls (Ultimate-era) pre-Banjo getting in at E3. He is a fan request who happens to hail from the best selling game of all time, but that doesn't change the point that Steve has been a big request for many.

I don't think that there is anything backing up the idea that the next character has to be a big request. We literally just got one. Obviously, we could end up getting someone like Geno, Dante, Crash next anyways; but there are no trends or patterns that specifically point to them. I personally think the next character will end up being a 1st part or a lesser known 3rd party, but that's just me.

I don't know if I'd say Steve's the big fan request. I mean, he's for sure a character that has been requested significantly. But I don't think him being in the Pass means names like Geno are out of the running.
Crash and Dante doesn't really qualify as big fan request, and I like both a lot. They're super popular nowadays in the community but 2, 3 years ago? They were mentioned frequently but they weren't incredibly popular.

As for the next characters. I'm also expecting a ""low"" profile character for FP8, first or third party. FP9 or maybe FP10, which are the ones who will be revealed around E3 2021 season, will probably be big fan requests (Geno, Waluigi, Isaac?) or popular third parties (Crash, Dante, Monster Hunter, etc). That's how I see it, personally.
Who knows maybe the next character ends being a pretty big one as well, but if the first Pass is our reference, well, I think the next character is either a small first party (or Rex at best) or a Terry-esque pick, probably japanese.

Personally FP7 not being Dante or Crash feels like a bad sign for their chances of being playable, but that's just me being pessimistic.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Bah, if Steve didn't look ugly and outdated (but endearing and goofy) it wouldn't look like minecraft. When you say "Minecraft steve" people think of the in-game version, not some random promo art.

 

[Deleted member]

I just wished he looked a bit less like a mod. Embracing Smash's art style certainly doesn't preclude still being faithfully represented.

What would you want them to do with Steve though?

I feel like if they tried to "smasify" Steve, it wouldn't go well, and it wouldn't be as faithful to Minecraft.

I think the faithful design that Smash gave Steve fits extremely well, and it makes him pop out more.

That is just my opinion, though.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Attempts to make Steve look better don’t work, it’s in his blood to be a clunky lo-res boi

 

[Wigglerman]

Steve looks fine IMO

The mish mash of characters who aren't supposed to fit is part of Smash's appeal

If Morrigan ever got in Smash is it wrong that I want that sprite to be one of her alts LMAO

I disagree. The appeal of Smash is the mish mashed characters but they always looked like they fit in Smash because the aesthetic of the game is quite defined. Every character is designed to fit the Smash vibe. You can tell if the characters render is from Smash because the design process is pretty much roster wide. So having Steve look like he was ripped right out of his game and not 'Smash-i-fied' like everyone else is a glaring design choice. Even G&W has kept up with this design philosophy to be more aesthetically matching with the rest of the roster.

Again, there's not much that can be done about it. I find him to stick out like a sore thumb. But it simply is what it is.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

What would you want them to do with Steve though?

I feel like if they tried to "smasify" Steve, it wouldn't go well, and it wouldn't be as faithful to Minecraft.

I think the faithful design that Smash gave Steve fits extremely well, and it makes him pop out more.

That is just my opinion, though.

I mean I’m fine with the way he looks buuuuut...

Just cleaning up the pixelation does a lot of favors for him. As he stands he looks just like he does in OG Minecraft which, depending on your tastes is either faithful or lazy.

 

[blackghost]

Now Min Min was complicated! I do think some aspects of Steve will be simple, or simple enough, but he may be more complex than even Min Min.

i wouldnt say minmin is complicated but she does control vastly different from a smash character normally does. even characters like ryu and terry still follow what are normals and specials. min min has no specials and thats the major difference.

knowing sakurai, he may try to make the inverse of minmin.



dante could be a character with only specials.


only time I've seen a group debate a character visual choices and model was Bayonetta and that was on a much smaller scale. Unlike steve, the argument was about proportions rather than style choices. it was the same arguments: what is faithful to design and what is taking and "smashifing" a character's design too much?

for context:

 

[YeppersPeppers]

I've advocated for the promo looks to be the main inspiration for Steve and Minecraft in Smash in the past to friends who weren't fond of the idea, and I do think I'd have preferred if they'd gone for something like that, or even at least a middle ground. In the end though it's not really a deal breaker for me on Steve. There's tons more value I can find in this inclusion to make up for the absolutely out of place visuals.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean I’m fine with the way he looks buuuuut...

Just cleaning up the pixelation does a lot of favors for him. As he stands he looks just like he does in OG Minecraft which, depending on your tastes is either faithful or lazy.

Someone brought up a good point, but the Minecraft Steve design that they used for Smash fits quite well with the blocks in the stage. I think people in here would still complain he is too different if they go with this art. Plus, faithfulness is always very nice to see. I am sure many people think of Steve as the original render rather than that promotional art.

 

[PSIGuy]

love how everyone suddenly pretends Smash is a mishmash of styles and doesn’t attempt to update and integrate the best versions of every character into a cohesive art style, resulting in renders so good they literally become the characters most acknowledged look by the public

they literally changed Bayonetta’s proportions so she’s not a freakish giraffe, updated Pit to match how characters like Link and Samus has developed over the years and deliberately picked iconic designs like original Pac Man, NES Simon and Rondo of Blood Richter when they all have newer more relevant designs. characters have been threatened with removal over their designs, that’s how serious this **** gets

and then there’s Steve who’s meant to be ugly and any attempt to update or integrate him is an injustice??? what. there’s “loving recreation” and then there’s Steve.

 

[Noler_Mass]

They 100% didn’t make him look that way due to a lack of time/laziness. It’s on purpose.

 

[Deleted member]

Let me remind you of one character:



They didn't change Mr. Game and Watch to be some 3D character completely.

He actually is 3D if you look hard enough, but he is presented as 2D.

Sometimes it is good to stay faithful to the game, and Steve is a perfect example of that.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Guys... would you really want them to go down this path?

Spoiler: I hope to God you say “no...”

 

[Blargg888]

Just cleaning up the pixelation does a lot of favors for him. As he stands he looks just like he does in OG Minecraft which, depending on your tastes is either faithful or lazy.

I mean, I don't really see how using that design over the one we got would be any more or less lazy than what we got. Besides, considering how much effort it would have been to add Steve as a character at all, I highly doubt the way he looks is due to laziness. The way he looks is most likely intentional.

love how everyone suddenly pretends Smash is a mishmash of styles and doesn’t attempt to update and integrate the best versions of every character into a cohesive art style, resulting in renders so good they literally become the characters most acknowledged look by the public

they literally changed Bayonetta’s proportions so she’s not a freakish giraffe, updated Pit to match how characters like Link and Samus has developed over the years and deliberately picked iconic designs like original Pac Man, NES Simon and Rondo of Blood Richter when they all have newer more relevant designs. characters have been threatened with removal over their designs, that’s how serious this **** gets

and then there’s Steve who’s meant to be ugly and any attempt to update or integrate him is an injustice??? what. there’s “loving recreation” and then there’s Steve.

Eh. I don't disagree that the people arguing about Smash being a "mishmash of styles" are a bit off the mark, but I also don't agree that Steve is not a "loving recreation"

I really do think that Steve being done the way he was done was the way to go.

 

[Slime Master]

Maybe I would be singing a different tune if we did get promo steve in the game, but I feel like it would be hard to give steve much personality with the promo design. There's something kind of smug about the stiff animations and just general out-of-place-ness of him. IDK, I just think it's hilarious, and I don't think I would feel a need to remark on how he looks if he did just look normal.

 

[Spongeboob]

This gave me a chuckle.

Spoiler: Kind of dark

P.S. - No, I did not post that.

Anyways, I've been thinking: shouldn't there be more than one reason that a character becomes a fighter in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, and that maybe there's not a criteria or quota that a character's gotta meet? For example, Burger & King () may have gotten in due to the following reasons:

• highly requested character(s)
• an advertisement for XBOX
• the team & Sack-your-eye may have wanted an all-around type character, of which Burger-King fit the role for

Meanwhile, Big Daddy () may have gotten in for these reasons:

• highly requested character
• easy to implement (ironically what kicked him out of the Tr4sh)
• so he finally gets his chance "muh fire emblem" (not very likely since we didn't get another unique FE character until Beleth () (leaving a 4-year gap between him an Corn ()), but it's still possible...)

And finally, we have Terry () (not to be confused with Ken ()), who was potentially added for the following reasons:

• "THE OG ECHO FIGHTER" (as stated in the 11/1/18 direct)
• uh... he provides a new playstyle with a familiar moveset?

But seriously, I think it's best to think that multiple factors come into play when deciding a character, and that not all characters get in for the same reasons.

Spoiler: Some sort of rant, I guess...

I'd also like to add that JUST BECAUSE A NEW GAME COMES ON SWITCH OR THAT THEY'RE ON NINTENDO DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE IN. THOUSANDS- no, MILLIONS OF CHARACTERS MEET THAT CRITERIA, AND I'M SICK AND TIRED OF THESE ****ERS SAYING "THEY'RE IN" JUST BECAUSE THEIR GAME IS ON SWITCH. NOT EVERY CHARACTER IS A SHILL PICK GODDAMNIT.

I can't tell you how long I've been waiting to use this...
Also, the "50 Tracks" thing with Terry was stated to be a one-time thing, and it's unreasonable to expect it to happen again because of the situation surrounding Terry's tracks. At most, I'd expect around 20 tracks for everyone else.

One more thing.... am I the only one who thinks there should be another character in Wario and Triple D's position?

Even disregarding someone like Geno, what are the chances that Steve comes with new Mario costumes? Banjo came with entirely unrelated costumes, Mario was featured heavily in the trailer, and it's still Mario's 35th anniversary. We could get something like the Bee costumes from Galaxy, Wing hat from Mario 64, Cat costume from 3D World, etc.

I don't think that's very likely, but in the words of Idubbbz...

 

[Deleted member]

I love every last one of them, but here is my tier list in terms of characters overall (Presentation/Gameplay):

S: Steve

A: Joker, Terry, Hero, Min Min, Byleth, Simon/Richter

B: Piranha Plant, Ridley, King K. Rool, Inkling, Incineroar

C: Ken, Chrom, Isabelle, Dark Samus

D: Banjo-Kazooie, Daisy

 

[SpectreJordan]

The only thing I don’t like about Steve is his character art, which I guess is accurate to some of the OG renders but ehhhh they should’ve done something dynamic.

I don’t really like him on the character banner either. I know it’s supposed to be a joke but it looks really off. I wish they would’ve just drawn him.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I love the fact that Steve actually stands out from the rest of the roster due to his janky and weird animations. It makes his inclusion all the more bizarre and funny

 

[Blargg888]

Maybe I would be singing a different tune if we did get promo steve in the game, but I feel like it would be hard to give steve much personality with the promo design. There's something kind of smug about the stiff animations and just general out-of-place-ness of him. IDK, I just think it's hilarious, and I don't think I would feel a need to remark on how he looks if he did just look normal.

I really like the comedic, unflinching stoicism they portrayed him as having in the trailers. Kinda reminds me of the P4A version of Yu Narukami, but on a much smaller scale.

One more thing.... am I the only one who thinks there should be another character in Wario and Triple D's position?
View attachment 288048

Who knows? Maybe you'll turn out to be right. They still need to fit 4 more characters in after all.

 

[Deleted member]

Deep down, we all know that...

Spoiler

Fire Theory wins. Cinderace is CP8, everyone.

 

[Shroob]

tbh, I like Max's newest video on the whole Steve debacle.

 

[Deleted member]

tbh, I like Max's newest video on the whole Steve debacle.

"It's a dream come true, just not my dream come true."

That is honestly such a great quote from him. Like he isn't hyped in Steve, because he never played Minecraft, but he acknowledges that there are many people that love him, and that he is a huge character.

If you dislike Steve, I feel like Max's view is a good idea to follow.

 

[I.D.]

Clean up Steve all you want. He's still going to be a bunch of blocks in the shape of a human that stick out like a sore thumb. So why bother?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You guys do realize that you can like both 3rd parties AND 1st parties, right?

Sometimes it seems like narratives get built that one side is the "oppressed gamer". You can like everything, you know.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys do realize that you can like both 3rd parties AND 1st parties, right?

I realize that! Who isn't?

 

[I.D.]

You guys do realize that you can like both 3rd parties AND 1st parties, right?

I only like 2nd parties

 

[Shroob]

You guys do realize that you can like both 3rd parties AND 1st parties, right?

I only like parties when pizza's involved tbh

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I only like 2nd parties

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Shroob]

So yeah, tomorrow's gonna be interesting when it comes to the Mii costumes.


Unlike others, I REALLY doubt we're getting a bunch of Minecraft hats and at most expect a Creeper hat, and due to the News articles, we can 'potentially' expect 6 costumes.

When Banjo came, he didn't bring any BK or Rare costumes with him, but I'd find it hard to believe if we didn't get a Creeper hat, though not impossible.


So will tomorrow be a day of reckoning for some fanbases, or will they all be brand new costumes?