Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[N3ON]

If I may be blunt, I honestly think you're letting your dislike get a bit ahead of yourself here.

They need to cut 7:30am, add more 10pm.

That's how time works, right?

 

[CannonStreak]

Once again I don't care if people hate Steve or dislike him.

I'm just tired of people acting like he's nothing.

I don't think he is nothing, despite being not connected to his games. I think he is more than that, based on what I know.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I even said I don't care if you don't like him, I don't care at all. I'm just tired of people treating Steve like he isn't a character when he clearly is even if he's not as well-defined like some others. You don't have to be well-defined to be a character, otherwise Red isn't a character either (outside of Generations) nor the other Pokémon trainers and Villager definitely isn't since he has less than Steve (Steve gets facial expressions in the 1.16 trailer so about on par there).

I'll give you my two cents. At the end of the day, people will have different interpretations of characters. The subject is entirely subjective. There is no "official" way a character must be viewed. The best I can say is, and I don't mean this condescendingly, is to not let other people's opinions spoil your fun, or your views.

 

[epicmartin7]

Y'know... knowing what we know now about Steve being planned back in 2015 (or at least talks beginning)... I found something that may be of interest.

https://tcrf.net/Super_Mario_Maker_for_Nintendo_3DS#Removed_Costumes

GoldenRetri
RayMan
Roy
Ryu

I forgot about this, but Rayman was supposed to have a costume in Mario Maker. This data was found in the 3DS version of the game, which released in 2016. This was... around a year before Mario & Rabbids got revealed.

So this might've been the time Ubisoft and Nintendo got a bit more chummy. And knowing what we know now about Steve... it does pose some questions.

I personally don't think it means anything, but I do think it's fascinating.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'll give you my two cents. At the end of the day, people will have different interpretations of characters. The subject is entirely subjective. There is no "official" way a character must be viewed. The best I can say is, and I don't mean this condescendingly, is to not let other people's opinions spoil your fun, or your views.

I guess so, though he is officially a character :S

I'm still bothered by stuff like how the Smash Wiki neglects how he and Alex do have genders and aren't just vessels. But you're right. I should just avoid it all and not let it spoil my happiness, I guess I'm also just bothered because while Mojang does treat them as more than the player they also have yet to include them in novels and such and I'm scared about the movie but I guess nothing I say to anyone changes anything...

 

[The Slayer]

Well, at least he's not an anime swordsman (YES, he has a sword but I don't think that'll be a central part of his moveset).

 

[N3ON]

"Talks beginning" is to "planned"

As "Sakurai considered adding x" is to "x was planned but cut"

I'm sure if we knew all the third-parties that have talked to Nintendo about tryna get their character in there, or the times Nintendo has tried to get a third-party but failed, it would make just "having talks" seem insignificant.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I guess so, though he is officially a character :S

I'm still bothered by stuff like how the Smash Wiki neglects how he and Alex do have genders and aren't just vessels. But you're right. I should just avoid it all and not let it spoil my happiness, I guess I'm also just bothered because while Mojang does treat them as more than the player they also have yet to include them in novels and such and I'm scared about the movie but I guess nothing I say to anyone changes anything...

If anything, Mojang hasn't done nearly enough to establish them as fully realized characters. If what you say is true, that they've stated Steve and Alex are in fact characters, then they failed the golden rule of "show, don't tell." I don't believe either of them even appeared in Minecraft Dungeons which was a major missed opportunity.

 

[Trevenant]

Although it's pretty much marmite, I would absolutely love for them to chuck a super brief nod to MC: Story Mode. Getting the new episodes as they launched were some pretty fun times all the way back when and I'm one of the few that thought it was alright but definitely had some problems in some places which could easily be cleaned up a bit. I assume it would either be through a song or maybe it could be referenced in a boxing ring title since Endermen were pretty common in the first season at least. Even if it's a nod in the tips. Steve and Alex can't be referenced through it since they don't appear and zombies are fairly minor enemies so they can't have a boxing ring nod. I assume they are going to get distinct ones like Hero too.

And a nod to Telltale is never a bad thing.

 

[CannonStreak]

"Talks beginning" is to "planned"

As "Sakurai considered adding x" is to "x was planned but cut"

I'm sure if we knew all the third-parties that have talked to Nintendo about tryna get their character in there, or the times Nintendo has tried to get a third-party but failed, it would make just "having talks" seem insignificant.

This is kinda why I don't usually have these kinds of discussions. Not saying your post is wrong or bad, N3ON, just saying.

But yeah, for reasons you already said, talking for a character is not the same as planning to include them. I mean, even though it has been five years in terms of talking about Minecraft between Nintendo and Mojang, I bet the time frame for actually making the stuff, character, stage and all, was much shorter than the talks. I do agree that they are not necessarily the same thing.

I also would say that considering and planning, cutting them in the end or not, is not exactly the same thing, either.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

They need to cut 7:30am, add more 10pm.

That's how time works, right?

It's always 7:30 somewhere.

 

[SirBillyBob]

The state of Smash Affairs in a nutshell:

As for thoughts on Steve, he looks cool. Minecraft was my jam back then, so I don't mind too much.

 

[Garteam]

I feel that some of the hardcore Nintendo Smash scene is pretty stuck in some 2017 bubble were people still despised Minecraft. I thought the internet came back around to it around last year. It is odd how disconnected a chunk of hardcore Smash can be sometimes.

It is also a bit baffling and ironic considering Nintendo is mainly targeted towards kids first while Minecraft was always targeted towards everyone first. Correct me if I'm misremembering but wasn't one of the first places that made Minecraft get attention 4chan? The minor overblown elements of kids and cringe things being associated with the series seems to be the main reason some people are bothered. Not liking something because kids like it is a very funny concept to be even slightly prevalent in the Smash scene and I'd argue every big series has a cringe rabbit hole whether it was spotlighted or not.

Of course being sad or disappointed because the character you want didn't get in yet is understandable but that wasn't really what I meant. I personally am neutral to happy on the inclusion because it really takes the gaming crossover celebration element to a new heights once again and that's what I really liked about Joker, Hero, Banjo, Terry, and the Mii Costumes. Min Min and Byleth were creative and decently fun inclusions but not what mainly gets me excited about Super Smash Brothers.

Funny enough, Minecraft's age demographic really did skew a bit older when the game was young. I remember getting the game in mid-2011 after watching Farfromsubtle play it. I was about 12 at the time, but I remember most of the people on some of the servers I played on being in their late teens to mid-20s. You'd occasionally even have a guy who was married with kids come into the game. Most kids at my school who played the game were actually locked to the free beta because their parents wouldn't buy it for them.

I think it was the "Minecraft is for cringy kids" stigma getting attached just as Microsoft bought the game that solidified that image for so many. It not only created a perception that Minecraft had been co-opted by a different group, but also that it had sold out. I think that in turn created this idea that somehow Minecraft itself had changed from what it once was. Of course, once people went back and played long enough to get past the shock of "OH GOD WHAT THE **** IS ALL THIS NEW STUFF", people realized it was still fundamentally the same game they liked all those years ago.

As to why this Smash is kinda lagging behind the rest of the internet in this regard, I think Grotesque Steve is really the main reason. When Steve was first brought up as a legitimate option for Smash, the Internet was still in its "Minecraft has cooties" phase. As such, it made Steve a perfect character to use as a troll option, which in turn escalated things in the Smash community as Minecraft was losing its stigma elsewhere. It wasn't until Banjo was confirmed last year that things with Grotesque Steve settled down and people became more option to Minecraft.

 

[N3ON]

This is kinda why I don't usually have these kinds of discussions. Not saying your post is wrong or bad, N3ON, just saying.

But yeah, for reasons you already said, talking for a character is not the same as planning to include them. I mean, even though it has been five years in terms of talking about Minecraft between Nintendo and Mojang, I bet the time frame for actually making the stuff, character, stage and all, was much shorter than the talks. I do agree that they are not necessarily the same thing.

I also would say that considering and planning, cutting them in the end or not, is not exactly the same thing, either.

Yeah. I mean, if Rayman gets in eventually, they can say that talks began in... idk, 2013? 2012? Early enough that they could still ask Sakurai if he could put him in Smash 4 and then instead settle for a trophy.

It certainly doesn't mean he was in development for close to a decade.

It's always 7:30 somewhere.

Right now it's not 7:30 anywhere.

 

[CannonStreak]

Yeah. I mean, if Rayman gets in eventually, they can say that talks began in... idk, 2013? 2012? Early enough that they could still ask Sakurai if he could put him in Smash 4 and then instead settle for a trophy.

It certainly doesn't mean he was in development for close to a decade.


Right now it's not 7:30 anywhere.

I believe 2012 or 2013 would be the earliest of development for Smash 4. I can imagine other companies like Bethesda who wanted their characters in must have started talking with Nintendo when Smash Ultimate was early in development. I wonder if Mojang did so between around the end of Smash 4's development and the beginning of Smash Ultimate's? Either way, not many companies seemed to have made the cut in terms of playable characters.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Right now it's not 7:30 anywhere.

I was referencing "it's 5 o'clock somewhere"

The point is true, even if the specifics aren't. It will always be early in the morning somewhere, and it will always be late at night somewhere. Japan will be at 11:30 PM when you are at 7:30 AM, so if you got your 10 AM time slot, it would be 2 AM in Japan.

 

[TheCJBrine]

If anything, Mojang hasn't done nearly enough to establish them as fully realized characters. If what you say is true, that they've stated Steve and Alex are in fact characters, then they failed the golden rule of "show, don't tell." I don't believe either of them even appeared in Minecraft Dungeons which was a major missed opportunity.

I guess so, I just really care about them. I've played Minecraft since 2011 and while I mostly use my own skin (and have started using Steve often too over the past year or so), I really like Steve and like Alex too, and I guess seeing Mojang use them and not treat them as "they're just you!" makes me happy.

Mojang hasn't explicitly stated they're characters but have shown to use them as their own characters, and have referred to them in ways that makes it look like they do in fact consider them to be their own characters even if an employee or two may have thought otherwise (not higherups), but yeah they haven't given them voices (outside of a yell for Steve in some silly videos, the videos also showing them as characters) or fully-realized personalities aside from expressiveness in the 1.16 trailer and some short gifs on instagram (and previously mentioned videos, though no facial expressions in those gifs nor videos)...

The most we know about them is, according to a Lego Club magazine, that Steve is a miner and alchemist, while Alex is a hunter and explorer (some promotional stuff seems to reflect this of Alex and I think the Steve stuff too but I'm not sure since he explores stuff too, so I guess they're just preferences), and both are builders. Steve is a boy while Alex is a girl. I guess that's not much, but I still really care about them like a lot of other characters...

They even get merchandise like plushies, though I guess human Animal Crossing villagers got plushies too in the past...

And, I think it'd be weird to give "just avatars" their own, personal names too, but idk...

 

[Deleted member]

Minecraft Developer Says Smash Bros Talks Started At Least 5 Years Ago

Getting into Smash Bros. takes a while.

screenrant.com

Anyone see that? That explains why Vergeben had heard things about Minecraft in particular awhile back.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The state of Smash Affairs in a nutshell:
View attachment 287902

As for thoughts on Steve, he looks cool. Minecraft was my jam back then, so I don't mind too much.

The common enemies they've united to kill are their evil counterparts from an alternate dimension.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I dislike blank avatar characters like Byleth or Villager so of course I'm not fond of Steve

I justy dont like how he looks
hes honestly the ugliest character in the game to me
That and minecraft means nothing to me at all

 

[N3ON]

so if you got your 10 AM time slot, it would be 2 AM in Japan.

Deal

Sorry, Venus.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I guess so, I just really care about them. I've played Minecraft since 2011 and while I mostly use my own skin (and have started using Steve often too over the past year or so), I really like Steve and like Alex too, and I guess seeing Mojang use them and not treat them as "they're just you!" makes me happy.

Mojang hasn't explicitly stated they're characters but have shown to use them as their own characters, and have referred to them in ways that makes it look like they do in fact consider them to be their own characters even if an employee or two may have thought otherwise (not higherups), but yeah they haven't given them voices (outside of a yell for Steve in some silly videos, the videos also showing them as characters) or fully-realized personalities aside from expressiveness in the 1.16 trailer and some short gifs on instagram (and previously mentioned videos, though no facial expressions in those gifs nor videos)...

The most we know about them is, according to a Lego Club magazine, that Steve is a miner and alchemist, while Alex is a hunter and explorer (some promotional stuff seems to reflect this of Alex and I think the Steve stuff too but I'm not sure since he explores stuff too, so I guess they're just preferences), and both are builders. Steve is a boy while Alex is a girl. I guess that's not much, but I still really care about them like a lot of other characters...

They even get merchandise like plushies, though I guess human Animal Crossing villagers got plushies too in the past...

And, I think it'd be weird to give "just avatars" their own, personal names too, but idk...

Mojang just has to do more with them. Give people a reason to care or empathize with them.

And, I think it'd be weird to give "just avatars" their own, personal names too, but idk...

Well I found on the Minecraft wiki that his name is Steve because it was suggested by Notch as a joke.

 

[Ben Holt]

The common enemies they've united to kill are their evil counterparts from an alternate dimension.

Wait. This Steve is white.
I always thought Steve was a black guy with a goatee.

 

[NintenRob]

Regarding the lack of care for Steve/Alex ......

There's always Zombie and Enderman

Enderman in particular I find quite endearing.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

This could have been a great alt costume.

 

[KillerCage]

This could have been a great alt costume.

DO NOT WANT! DO NOT WANT!

 

[TheCJBrine]

Well I found on the Minecraft wiki that his name is Steve because it was suggested by Notch as a joke.

Yeah, but it was officially kept as his name, and Notch and them still named Alex. They could've just left it as a joke, but they embraced it; now that I think about it, Steve was also the main character being treated as important in the 2011 Minecon trailer.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

This could have been a great alt costume.

Yeah, but Kratos is owned by Sony :/

 

[Ben Holt]

Yeah, but Kratos is owned by Sony :/

Sony better start getting jealous real soon. I want my Kratos, Sackboy, Nathan Drake, Jak & Daxter, and Ratchet & Clank in Smash.
I actually think Doom Slayer is still happening, which would give us THREE Microsoft reps in Smash, so Sony needs to start playing nice too.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Sony better start getting jealous real soon. I want my Kratos, Sackboy, Nathan Drake, Jak & Daxter, and Ratchet & Clank in Smash.
I actually think Doom Slayer is still happening, which would give us THREE Microsoft reps in Smash, so Sony needs to start playing nice too.

Is there a stick up Sony's ass or something? Not sure how hard it would be to license one of their characters. I also know next to nothing about Sony's gaming division so I also don't know how cooperative they would be.

 

[N3ON]

Is there a stick up Sony's ass or something? Not sure how hard it would be to license one of their characters. I also know next to nothing about Sony's gaming division so I also don't know how cooperative they would be.

Microsoft is the odd one out here. I'm sure Nintendo wouldn't lend one of their characters to a crossover mostly of Microsoft characters exclusive to the Xbox.

 

[Ben Holt]

Is there a stick up Sony's ass or something? Not sure how hard it would be to license one of their characters. I also know next to nothing about Sony's gaming division so I also don't know how cooperative they would be.

They're extremely stingy with their IPs.
Though most Microsoft IPs were previously multiplat, so it'd be a bad business move to buy out franchises just to make them XBox exclusives.
Banjo and Steve are not original Microsoft characters, so Master Chief will be the true test of how well Microsoft plays with Nintendo.

 

[MattX20]

So, you guys think there will be an equivalent to this once Steve gets his release date posted or is released? https://smash.oatmealdome.me/line_news/3016/en-US

 

[cosmicB]

So like, does anyone think the Mario tournament is still relevant to a new character? Because I've seen people still say "this is why Geno is next" and similar stuff and I just don't see it.

The absolute earliest we can have Steve is this Saturday. Assuming he was one half of an E3 reveal (something that there's still no evidence for) and we'll be getting a trailer for 8 soon, that still gives us a very small release window if the character is part of the tournament. The absolute shortest time between character releases was Hero to Banjo at 36 days, so no matter what we're still looking November at the absolute earliest when the tournament is supposed to kick off.

I guess it's not totally impossible, but it just doesn't seem likely considering how this year has been for Nintendo.

 

[Deleted member]

Do you think Steve will boost FP2 to the levels of success that FP1 reached with Joker and Hero?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don’t understand why many seem to hate Steve in Smash. I mean, he may have been unexpected, but he still looks fun. Why all the complaints?

I mean, I don't personally care about Minecraft, but I can't argue that it doesn't deserve to be in Smash.

Mostly I just hate the way he looks. Every other character in Smash(except G&W) gets redesigned with a modern design to fit into Smash. Steve's look is just cut and pasted from his crappy looking game.

I get that the blockyness is part of Minecraft's identity, but they could have at least done something about the awful textures.

 

[SNEKeater]

So like, does anyone think the Mario tournament is still relevant to a new character? Because I've seen people still say "this is why Geno is next" and similar stuff and I just don't see it.

The absolute earliest we can have Steve is this Saturday. Assuming he was one half of an E3 reveal (something that there's still no evidence for) and we'll be getting a trailer for 8 soon, that still gives us a very small release window if the character is part of the tournament. The absolute shortest time between character releases was Hero to Banjo at 36 days, so no matter what we're still looking November at the absolute earliest when the tournament is supposed to kick off.

I guess it's not totally impossible, but it just doesn't seem likely considering how this year has been for Nintendo.

I don't know if FP8 is a Mario character but 100% sure that FP8 won't release this year. Will they announce the character this year? Very unlikely in my opinion, but not impossible if you ask me. But if that was the case I can only see the fighter being revealed at the Game Awards, and if that was the case I'd assume it's either third party or a popular character (or both). Maybe a Joker-esque announcement, 0 gameplay and no release date, just to hype the community.

Steve could release mid October, so I'm not seeing FP8 releasing until February at the earliest.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I don’t understand why many seem to hate Steve in Smash. I mean, he may have been unexpected, but he still looks fun. Why all the complaints?

For one, I don't like Minecraft. No reason other than not liking the way it looks, and something about it has always put me off. This extends to Steve and how I don't like his design and stiff animations. I was hoping they'd make Steve look a little better in those regards. They didn't. It's exactly like the choppy moveset video I watched months and months ago, which only further made me dislike the character. These are my personal reasons for disliking Steve. I have nothing against the people who like him, he's just not for me

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Quick Mii Costume prediction list for Friday:

Dante (Devil May Cry)
Arle (Puyo Puyo)
Geno (Super Mario RPG)
Master Chief (Halo)
Crash Bandicoot
You (You)

Obligatory text

 

[Perkilator]

Do you think Steve will boost FP2 to the levels of success that FP1 reached with Joker and Hero?

I’d argue beyond that. Minecraft is way more popular than Ultimate, so I’d say Vol. 2’s success might transcend that of even Vol. 1.