Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[TyrantLizardKing]

As others have said, I just wish Nintendo would show some transparency instead of leaving people to twiddle their thumbs for months on end. It's tiresome.

It's funny though as I had a wacky idea in my head before of how cool it would be if we had Bea as the Gen 8 rep. No, not using her Pokémon, but actually fighting with her Galar Karate.

I would be down for this. Sounds like the kind of curveball Sakurai & his team would throw at us, and it would be infinitely more exciting than just yet another Pokemon.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Great advice!

I got a question. What if you are stuck in a game for a while, and it is fun, but you don't get to experience much games as a result?

It really depends. I've been trying to make an effort to bust through a lot of my backlog this year considering I've had extra time at home because of the pandemic. I've gotten through a number of games this year, and some of them have been major time sinks! Dragon Quest, to get the true ending, took me somewhere around 100 hrs, NieR Automata took I think around 40, Witcher 3 was roughly 55-60, while Celeste was a shorter but challenging game.

I'm so into my backlog that I've actually created a spreadsheet that tells me how long a game is going to be prior to playing. I also see what kind of game it is so I know if I'm in the mood for it.

One thing I tell my students about reading is this: Before giving up on a book, it's good to give it a chance...read the first chapter, or read the back cover. While I wouldn't say to only judge a book by it's cover, the cover is meant to draw us in, just like any product. Before you judge a game, you have to give it a fair shake to determine if it really isn't for you.

For example, I started Dark Souls 2 or 3 weeks ago. I have died...a ridiculous amount of times. The beginning of the game was incredibly infuriating because of the difficulty. I felt like I sucked and wasn't gonna get better. However, I overcame a very difficult part and felt a rush of pride and adrenaline- and that's exactly the draw of Dark Souls: you face a difficult challenge, fail a bunch of times, but then by winning, and showing you've learned, you feel accomplished. I'm now in the latter half of the game. Granted, I've been loosely referring to a guide and have a close group of experienced friends, so I've had some help. But if I didn't give Dark Souls more of a chance, there's a pretty good chance I might have dropped it for good. I'm very glad I didn't.

Not every game is gonna hook every player. If it's a situation in which you're having fun, but it's a pretty sizeable time sink, I would say to make sure you have an alternate game to just chill with. I usually take a break here and there and just play Smash against CPUs in stock matches, because I always love Smash and it's something I can chill with if I'm not backlogging. Usually though I can blast through a single game before starting another one I have to commit to. So like, if I really wanted to start DOOM Eternal, I probably wouldn't start it until I finished the current game in my backlog.

But uh...I have Dark Souls 1, 2, 3, Bloodborne, AND Sekiro to get through. So I'm gonna die a LOT.

Basically, I'm the type who can commit to a whole ass game for an extended period of time. That said, I'm not everybody, so what works for me may not work for someone else.

 

[MooMew64]

Because this is how speculation works:

Bold to assume it only takes a day or so for people to demand the next character.

By my count, it's usually 10 minutes after the reveal, give or take.

 

[Teeb147]

The Isabelle reveal was in a General Direct, to date, we have never once gotten a Smash reveal outside of a General or Smash Direct.


This has held true between Smash 4 and Ultimate. The only exception to this rule was Lucina and Robin, which has never happened again, and that was a basically shadow dropped video without anything else attached to it.

Cool. I'd like to see the rule be broken and it show up in a non-general direct ;p

 

[Deleted member]

The Isabelle reveal was in a General Direct, to date, we have never once gotten a Smash reveal outside of a General or Smash Direct.


This has held true between Smash 4 and Ultimate. The only exception to this rule was Lucina and Robin, which has never happened again, and that was a basically shadow dropped video without anything else attached to it.

Joker's reveal (or teaser, rather) came from the Game Awards

 

[Shroob]

Joker's reveal (or teaser, rather) came from the Game Awards

Yes, it did. But also consider that that Game Awards had what, 10 million viewers?

Cool. I'd like to see the rule be broken and it show up in a non-general direct ;p

That doesn't work.

Game specific Directs are focused on a specific franchise, you're targeting fans already invested in the series and people who may want to jump in. So imagine then all of a sudden this Direct which focuses on a specific game starts promoting an entirely different game. You're not appealing to the core audience, and you're potentially isolating the fans who this information would be relevant to because, frankly, not everyone's as crazy as us. Not everyone's going to watch every single Direct Nintendo puts out in the case that there's Smash.


So you get potentially fans who don't give a single damn about Smash, and you completely ignore people who didn't know this is the ONE time to tune in in case of Smash.


"But couldn't Sakurai retweet the Direct?"

Sure, but then there goes the surprise, congrats.

 

[MooMew64]

Man, it'd be really funny if they just dropped it without warning like they've been doing with nearly everything lately.

That's not going to happen, but it'd be hilarious to see.

 

[Deleted member]

Here is the real debate.

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf (Melee/Ultimate), or Twilight Princess Ganondorf (Brawl/Smash 4)?

 

[Shroob]

Here is the real debate.

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf (Melee/Ultimate), or Twilight Princess Ganondorf (Brawl/Smash 4)?

OoT easily.


TP Ganon just looks fat, and not even in a good way like WW Ganon can pull it off. He looks way too slow and bulky in TP.

 

[Teeb147]

Yes, it did. But also consider that that Game Awards had what, 10 million viewers?

That doesn't work.

Game specific Directs are focused on a specific franchise, you're targeting fans already invested in the series and people who may want to jump in. So imagine then all of a sudden this Direct which focuses on a specific game starts promoting an entirely different game. You're not appealing to the core audience, and you're potentially isolating the fans who this information would be relevant to because, frankly, not everyone's as crazy as us. Not everyone's going to watch every single Direct Nintendo puts out in the case that there's Smash.


So you get potentially fans who don't give a single damn about Smash, and you completely ignore people who didn't know this is the ONE time to tune in in case of Smash.


"But couldn't Sakurai retweet the Direct?"

Sure, but then there goes the surprise, congrats.

Smash news gets around, and if it's a pokemon character, then it would hype those tuning to the dlc direct.
Pokemon is extremely popular, so I don't consider it bad to do it that way for a pokemon character, it may just get plenty of views from pokemon fans too who wouldn't play smash usually or havent bought the other dlc. So there you go.

 

[Goombaic]

Here is the real debate.

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf (Melee/Ultimate), or Twilight Princess Ganondorf (Brawl/Smash 4)?

Twilight. Most menacing Dorf in my opinion. The Smash model was kind of jank though.

Feel like it would've been much less criticized if it looked more like the Hyrule Warriors TP model.

 

[Shroob]

Smash news gets around, and if it's a pokemon character, then it would hype those tuning to the dlc direct.
Pokemon is extremely popular, so I don't consider it bad to do it that way for a pokemon character, it may just get plenty of views from pokemon fans too who wouldn't play smash necessarily. So there you go.

"Getting around" is a horrible way of thinking how marketing works, no offense.

 

[Teeb147]

"Getting around" is a horrible way of thinking how marketing works, no offense.

Huh? That's not the focus. Pokemon is huuge. You're catching a lot of eyes besides smash fans, from the pokemon fan base. If you want kids new to it not just buying the dlc but smash too, it's better than targetting only smash fans. And yes it does get around, smash fans like smash characters

 

[Deleted member]

If it's a situation in which you're having fun, but it's a pretty sizeable time sink, I would say to make sure you have an alternate game to just chill with. I usually take a break here and there and just play Smash against CPUs in stock matches, because I always love Smash and it's something I can chill with if I'm not backlogging. Usually though I can blast through a single game before starting another one I have to commit to. So like, if I really wanted to start DOOM Eternal, I probably wouldn't start it until I finished the current game in my backlog.

My question is that, is it okay for me to continue playing one game for a while? I am having way too much fun with my game I am playing righ now, and that game is Terraria.

I want to play other games too, but I don't want to leave my Terraria bubble yet.

 

[Shroob]

Huh? That's not the focus. Pokemon is huuge. You're catching a lot of eyes besides smash fans, from the pokemon fan base. If you want kids new to it not just buying the dlc but smash too, it's better than targetting only smash fans. And yes it does get around, smash fans like smash characters

Your logic fails a basic marketing test.

"Smash is huge"
"Pokemon is huge"

So promoting both in the same presentation should cause no issues, right?


No, no it causes huge issues. Not only is the current presentation clearly said to only be about the Crown Tundra DLC, again, not everyone likes Smash, and the people that do probably won't be tuning in unless they like SwSd.


Like, for as much as we Smash fans love the 2018 E3.... honest to god, it was a bad E3, because there was ONLY Smash, and not everyone likes/wants Smash.


If I open a salad bar, and I market it as a salad bar, except it's a ****ing Pizza bar, then what am I doing? People that come in who want salad won't be happy, and people who want pizza won't know. Sure, the people who want Pizza will 'eventually' know, but I'll be making nowhere near as much money as if I had just said my business is a goddamn Pizza bar.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Shroob Teeb147 I get where both of you guys are coming from.

Teeb, I don't think you're necessarily wrong. That Pokemon Direct will undoubtedly get a lot of views, and a lot of eyes would be seeing the Smash Bros. announcement if it were to be in that Direct. Obviously, as Pokemon fans, some of those viewers may be like "oh cool, I should get Smash" or "I should pick that game up again to play as the new Pokemon."

I'm just not holding my breath for a Smash reveal during the Pokemon Direct.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

My question is that, is it okay for me to continue playing one game for a while? I am having way too much fun with my game I am playing righ now, and that game is Terraria.

I want to play other games too, but I don't want to leave my Terraria bubble yet.

Oh totally! Nothing wrong with that. It's not something where like anybody should feel obligated to leave their comfort zone. There's also the financial aspect to gaming- it's not a cheap hobby, so for many it's not a matter of "Should I play this?" it's, "CAN I afford to play this?" It's not as simple.

I spent a ton of time playing nothing but Animal Crossing, probably for like 2-3 months. But I was ok with that, and there's nothing wrong with that. I certainly won't judge!

Really, the only thing I'd judge in terms of Smash is for anybody to say, "That character is overrated!" or something without having played the game or understanding why the character is liked. I used to be a twerp who said certain picks that I hadn't had experiences with were trash (Sora was one of them) but I played Kingdom Hearts and my opinion changed. That's just a huge part of the experience, in my humble opinion.

 

[Teeb147]

Shroob Teeb147 I get where both of you guys are coming from.

Teeb, I don't think you're necessarily wrong. That Pokemon Direct will undoubtedly get a lot of views, and a lot of eyes would be seeing the Smash Bros. announcement if it were to be in that Direct. Obviously, as Pokemon fans, some of those viewers may be like "oh cool, I should get Smash" or "I should pick that game up again to play as the new Pokemon."

I'm just not holding my breath for a Smash reveal during the Pokemon Direct.

Me neither. I just like to think it's not impossible

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly given how much Nintendo's been trying to make individual announcements a big deal as of late, I don't think they'll waste the obvious intrigue of an announcement that says "Sakurai reveals the newest Smash character this Thursday!"

I'm almost to the point where even if we do get General Directs back, they may decide that the mystery lure of each Smash presentation is a more effective hook outside something really big like E3.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Just my 2 cents on the Pokemon and Smash presentation discussion: The reason you schedule specific streams is to draw in viewers for that specific product.

Just like one wouldn't expect Pokemon news in a Smash Direct, one probably shouldn't expect Smash news in a Pokemon Direct. Having one in another specific Direct takes valuable time away from the product being pushed. It's a reason why there'll never be a Smash reveal in an Indie Direct. Having a reveal like that would entirely show up ALL of the indie games, which is not only unfair to the Indie Devs themselves, but defeats the purpose of the presentation in the first place.

I doubt a Smash reveal in anything aside from a Sakurai presentation, general Nintendo Direct, or a gaming event in which there are significant amounts of viewers like TGA.

 

[Teeb147]

Your logic fails a basic marketing test.

"Smash is huge"
"Pokemon is huge"

So promoting both in the same presentation should cause no issues, right?


No, no it causes huge issues. Not only is the current presentation clearly said to only be about the Crown Tundra DLC, again, not everyone likes Smash, and the people that do probably won't be tuning in unless they like SwSd.


Like, for as much as we Smash fans love the 2018 E3.... honest to god, it was a bad E3, because there was ONLY Smash, and not everyone likes/wants Smash.


If I open a salad bar, and I market it as a salad bar, except it's a ****ing Pizza bar, then what am I doing? People that come in who want salad won't be happy, and people who want pizza won't know. Sure, the people who want Pizza will 'eventually' know, but I'll be making nowhere near as much money as if I had just said my business is a goddamn Pizza bar.

I said my point clearly enough. If you don't understand it then that's fine. I'd be repeating myself if I tried to debate you, so that's it for me.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly given how much Nintendo's been trying to make individual announcements a big deal as of late, I don't think they'll waste the obvious intrigue of an announcement that says "Sakurai reveals the newest Smash character this Thursday!"

I'm almost to the point where even if we do get individual Directs back, they may decide that the mystery lure of each Smash presentation is a more effective hook.

Issue here then is we just get spoiled when it drops on Youtube with 0 fanfare due to the thumbnail/title.

 

[Deleted member]

We're not getting a reveal in this Pokemon Direct. I don't think we are even getting a Gen 8 Pokemon.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know what would be amazing in a Super Smash Bros. Ultimate story mode? A post credits scene that's similar to Bayonetta's Let's Dance Boys! scene, but it has a bunch of cast members dancing, and a bunch of visual gags. For instance:

• Isabelle and Villager dancing with their friends.
• Mario doing The Mario, and seemingly warping everywhere. (bonus points if he pops into a frame somewhere in the back where it's harder to notice)
• The Kirby crew doing their signature dance together.
• Luigi and Pit dancing badly.
• Duck Hunt laughing at bad dancers or other mishaps.
• Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong doing dance moves from the DK Rap.
• A villain or anti-hero refusing to dance.
• Literally anything involving Ridley in this scene.
• Jigglypuff ending the scene by excitedly sings for this huge audiance, and puts them all to sleep.

 

[Shroob]

I said my point clearly enough. If you don't understand it then that's fine. I'd be repeating myself if I tried to debate you, so that's it for me.

To start, I just want to preface I'm not intentionally trying to come off as hostile, so sorry if I do so.


But I 100% understand your point, and I'm telling you you'd get kicked out of a Marketing 101 class if you took that kind of mindset into it.


This "Ho hum it could happen~" attitude is not how companies work.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Lets have a recap of how Smash Ultimate characters were revealed.

-Inklings revealed during the announcement trailer

-Daisy revealed during the E3 2018 direct as the way to introduce echo fighters

-Ridley revealed along side the release date at the end of the very same direct

-Richter, Simon, Chrom, Dark Samus, King K Rool revealed the August 2018 Smash direct

-Isabell penultimate reveal for the general direct in 2018.

-Ken and Incenroar revealed at the start of the November Smash direct

-Plant revealed in the middle of the same direct as a pre-order bonus

-Joker revealed the game awards with no indication of a Smash reveal prior to that

-Plant gets shadow dropped at the end of January of 2019

-Joker's model teased in the February 2019 general direct

-Joker's presentation shadow dropped in the middle of the night back in April of 2019 and dropped the next day

-Hero and Banjo revealed at E3 2019

-Hero's presentation happening late July and from this point forward character presentations were livestreamed, Hero would shadow drop later that day.

-Banjo being shadow dropped during the September 2019 general direct and Terry revealed right after along with further DLC plans after the pass was done. Banjo's live presentation being announced at the same time and right after the direct

-Terry's live presentation happening November 2019, no other reveals, Terry though would be shadow dropped later that day

-Byleth being viva a live presentation January 2020 along side Fighters Pass 2 and Byleth would come out a few days later

-ARMS fighter coming to Smash as the start of FP2 and coming in June, was part of a mini direct in March 2020 that was shadow dropped

-Min Min revealed a live presentation back in June, no other fighter revealed and Min Min would come out a few days later

In conclusion while Smash reveals and character release dates are usually announced in advance, they have shadow dropped characters on the eshop, presentations, and character reveals and have had reveals outside of Nintendo events. So basically there is no ****ing method to this madness and anything is on the table for both how a character is revealed and when they get released.

 

[PeridotGX]

I love Minecraft, I'd be thrilled if Steve got in. I never understood the public perception of Minecraft. Some years, it's cool to like Minecraft. Other years, you're a loser and "cringe" person if you like Minecraft. Now it's cool to like it again.

I'm pretty sure that is the same case with Pokemon.

It's simple nostalgia, the people who grew up playing a game are more vocal about it, improving general reception. Do you think it's a coincidence that Gen 5, Brawl, Minercaft,and Super Paper Mario all became much more popular about a decade after release? X and Y will be heralded as the last good generation in a year or two, and Fortnite will become massive again by 2030.

 

[Teeb147]

To start, I just want to preface I'm not intentionally trying to come off as hostile, so sorry if I do so.


But I 100% understand your point, and I'm telling you you'd get kicked out of a Marketing 101 class if you took that kind of mindset into it.


This "Ho hum it could happen~" attitude is not how companies work.

No hun you don't understand my point if you're comparing them to salad and pizza. I don't have the patience to debate right now, so take it or leave it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

No hun you don't understand my point if you're comparing them to salad and pizza.

He's not though. He's using a metaphor to help explain his point.

 

[extremeturkey]

I would LOVE a gold/silver remake but not if it's Let's Go. Honestly I'd be perfectly happy if they just put Crystal version on the eshop.

 

[Teeb147]

He's not though. He's using a metaphor to help explain his point.

I know. I dont agree with the point and I don't feel like repeating myself right now.
I like discussion, not debate. So uh, carry on.

 

[extremeturkey]

I would LOVE a gold/silver remake but not if it's Let's Go. Honestly I'd be perfectly happy if they just put Crystal version on the eshop.

Which I might add they SHOULD HAVE DONE LONG AGO on switch

 

[Caladuz]

He's not though. He's using a metaphor to help explain his point.

It's more of an analogy than a metaphor

 

[Teeb147]

I would LOVE a gold/silver remake but not if it's Let's Go. Honestly I'd be perfectly happy if they just put Crystal version on the eshop.

I love gold and silver but I feel like they've been remade for gba and ds, do you really want another one? lol. It's ok if you do.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Scoliosis Jones What do you teach? If you don't mind me asking.

 

[PacificFun]

We're in the endgame.

 

[Teeb147]

We're in the endgame.

Definitely feels 'imminent' ;p
Feel like it can definitely be next week. If it's not the week after that still, then we need to have a word with nintendo.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I'm no Pokemon fan, so I'll never tune into a Pokemon Direct. Nintendo wouldn't show something non-Pokemon in a Pokemon-centric Direct like Smash, because it would not only steal thunder but also miss the mark because people like me won't be watching.

 

[Arcadenik]

They were made for the anime.

And before someone point out Lucario, he was designed for the game before it

So what? Team Rocket still originated in video games. Smash would be just using the anime designs of the video game characters... which Smash already does with Cloud.

 

[Teeb147]

I'm no Pokemon fan, so I'll never tune into a Pokemon Direct. Nintendo wouldn't show something non-Pokemon in a Pokemon-centric Direct like Smash, because it would not only steal thunder but also miss the mark because people like me won't be watching.

Of course not, it'd be a pokemon character.
A new pokemon trainer would be what I'd look for XD But I know that's asking for too much, 3 characters. How about 2 pokemon though, maybe that'd be doable..