Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Door Key Pig]

I'd say there are still some viable first parties, though they are very few. I think at this point the only truly left field first parties would be Spirit or Assist Trophy promotions, since we're pretty much convinced they deconfirm, for the most part.

Don't personally think it's happening, just throwing it out there.

Anyway, do we have something from dataminers?

What few first parties would you say in particular have a shot?

 

[Zinith]

What few first parties would you say in particular have a shot?

As the ultimate authority on objectivity...

 

[3BitSaurus]

What few first parties would you say in particular have a shot?

Well, going by the assumption that Spirits deconfirm...

Personally, I think it isn't "too late" for a Three Houses character, especially because Nintendo apparently wants to keep that game running for some time. For Pokémon, I have my doubts, because the game being released in November means a Gen 8 rep would either release before the game as #4 or close the Pass as #5... none of which are very favorable imo.

Sylux is... way too early, considering Prime 4 releases next year and while we don't have a window, it probably won't be before the Pass finishes in February.

Porky is also a possibility, but even as someone who likes the Mother series... I can't really see him in the Pass, I think he'd work better either as a base game character or a standalone DLC.

There's other non-Spirit first parties too, like Adeleine and a few RH characters (much to your liking ), but I dunno...

Overall, I think first parties would fare better if we ended up getting more post-pass DLC. Take all of this with a grain of salt, as these are just opinions, but I'm not feeling so confident in Nintendo characters right now.

 

[Ovaltine]

Not to sound like a jerk, but why is there such a hype for wanting Geno in Smash? He's been requested for so long and I don't get it. Is it a nostalgia thing?

I also would ask the same about many other characters but it's easy to start with Geno.

As the lovely TheCJBrine said, this video really encapsulates why I personally love Geno and would adore seeing him in Smash. I'm more of a recent fan, too, so while some of it is based on nostalgia (from what I see), it isn't always the case. Hope this helps to give you a bit of an idea of what to make of his support! Trust me, I getcha. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me for years myself, and I say this as someone who champions him with every fiber of my being now.

 

[Nap_]

About first parties I'm only betting for Waluigi due the massive fan demand (it wasn't normal ) and a 3 Houses character, the biggest issue with first parties for me is the music and the stage if we are talking about series which are already in. Another problem is that the 3rd characters are now 3 of a 5 fighter pack. I'm going with 'everything is third' mostly by hype, with companies who are working well with Nintendo recently, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Capcom again...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What few first parties would you say in particular have a shot?

A character from Fire Emblem: Three Houses or Pokémon Sword and Shield still have a shot. Both would have the community in a tizzy (especially if either were #5) because a lot of us believe that both series have way too many characters already*. A bunch of people think Porky is likely for some reason. I mean, yeah he doesn't (technically) have a spirit but I don't think a major character from two old cult classic games would make for a good DLC character, especially since his main villain role didn't even hit the US. There might be one more character people are gunning for but I don't remember it if it is.

*I don't personally believe this. It's just what I see all the time.

Sylux is... way too early, considering Prime 4 releases next year and while we don't have a window, it probably won't be before the Pass finishes in February.

Wait it releases next year? I thought they were starting from scratch. Wouldn't that mean it's at least 2-5 years down the line?

 

[3BitSaurus]

As the ultimate authority on objectivity...

[Insert joke about Poochy being viable because only Yarn Poochy is a Spirit here.]

Every time I look at that Yoshi, I feel bad that we didn't get the cool-looking Yarn texture instead of this weird felt one. The black Yoshi skin died for this. Never forget. It was my favorite, too...

We still have Boshi dark blue Yoshi, but it's not quite the same...

Wait it releases next year? I thought they were starting from scratch. Wouldn't that mean it's at least 2-5 years down the line?

... yeah, no, I misspoke. Animal Crossing was delayed to next year, MP4 was delayed indefinitely. My bad.

 

[3BitSaurus]

EDIT: Delete, sorry. My other post went before the one that quoted me.

 

[HyruleHero]

A character from Fire Emblem: Three Houses or Pokémon Sword and Shield still have a shot. Both would have the community in a tizzy (especially if either were #5) because a lot of us believe that both series have way too many characters already*. A bunch of people think Porky is likely for some reason. I mean, yeah he doesn't (technically) have a spirit but I don't think a major character from two old cult classic games would make for a good DLC character, especially since his main villain role didn't even hit the US. There might be one more character people are gunning for but I don't remember it if it is.

*I don't personally believe this. It's just what I see all the time.


Wait it releases next year? I thought they were starting from scratch. Wouldn't that mean it's at least 2-5 years down the line?

I would have to say that a character from sword or shield or FE will not be coming to the DLC pass due to Sakurai saying Rex came out to late to implement. I think its safe to say that games that come out after smash Ultimate or not viable for a representative.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I would have to say that a character from sword or shield or FE will not be coming to the DLC pass due to Sakurai saying Rex came out to late to implement. I think its safe to say that games that come out after smash Ultimate or not viable for a representative.

The line of thinking makes sense for the base roster as it was decided years ago, but the DLC was decided just last year and since both games were known at the time I'd say they're eligible. Will they come to pass? My guess is probably not, but they are in the realm of possibility.

 

[3BitSaurus]

One thing that makes me curious about Doom Slayer/Bethesda characters in general: which Spirits/Mii Costumes would you guys see them bringing to Smash?

 

[ze9]

A giant red Kirby as a cacodemon, pink Bowser as a pinky, and 5-6 green Dark Samuses as the possessed soldiers are a must.
The cyberdemon would probably be Meta Ridley, and I dunno who could represent the Spider Mastermind but I guess its spirit battle would involve Mother Brain.

 

[HyruleHero]

One thing that makes me curious about Doom Slayer/Bethesda characters in general: which Spirits/Mii Costumes would you guys see them bringing to Smash?

Well there are a plethora of enemies from the OG doom games with fun names that would fit right in with the other PNG's in the game. If just Bethesda characters then some Elderscrolls or Fallout stuff could also be there, personally I see only Doom characters being the more likely spirits if Doom does get in the game.

 

[Ovaltine]

One thing that makes me curious about Doom Slayer/Bethesda characters in general: which Spirits/Mii Costumes would you guys see them bringing to Smash?

Something Skyrim. You can't have Bethesda representation without something Skyrim thrown in there. Dovahkiin or something would make sense if Skyrim didn't get a fighter in and of itself.

If we got a Bethesda rep with nothing involving Skyrim on-board, I'd be wondering if Todd Howard just missed the office meetings entirely for this.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’d kind of expect a Vault Boy costume too

 

[3BitSaurus]

A giant red Kirby as a cacodemon, pink Bowser as a pinky, and 5-6 green Dark Samuses as the possessed soldiers are a must.
The cyberdemon would probably be Meta Ridley, and I dunno who could represent the Spider Mastermind but I guess its spirit battle would involve Mother Brain.

Well there are a plethora of enemies from the OG doom games with fun names that would fit right in with the other PNG's in the game. If just Bethesda characters then some Elderscrolls or Fallout stuff could also be there, personally I see only Doom characters being the more likely spirits if Doom does get in the game.

I don't know much about Doom, but I'm particularly curious about Mii Costumes. Would they pull stuff from other Bethesda games?

And these Spirit battle ideas sound great. Plus every Doom fan tells me the track selection would be out of this world.

Something Skyrim. You can't have Bethesda representation without something Skyrim thrown in there. Dovahkiin or something would make sense if Skyrim didn't get a fighter in and of itself.

If we got a Bethesda rep with nothing involving Skyrim on-board, I'd be wondering if Todd Howard just missed the office meetings entirely for this.

"After PC, Xbox 360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4 and Switch... here's Skyrim for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate!"

I used to joke around with my friends that the next Elder Scrolls after Skyrim wouldn't be VI, but just Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim II.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I would say a Sword/Shield rep. is still somewhat likely, I just don’t know that the community would be in favor of it. Everyone understands WHY Pokemon has so many reps in Smash, and justifiably so, seeing as how many characters the series has that could be viable candidates. However, we JUST GOT a new Pokemon rep to FINISH the base game. I’m not too sure people would want another one so soon. Maybe if we didn’t get a new Pokemon, or Incineroar was revealed early on, but I don’t think we’ll get one as DLC.

As for a Three Houses rep, pretty much in the same boat. I could see it happening, but again, we just got ANOTHER Fire Emblem character (which people don’t seem to be keen on anymore), AND another Sword character with Hero (which is a weaker argument, but we have been getting a lot of Sword/FE characters recently). And if you ask me, the FE representation would be fine if we cut a character or 2 already in the game (not that I personally have anything against them).

As for other first parties, I agree that at this point in the DLC cycle that they would work better as standalone DLC or part of a Nintendo themed pass. Even if I’d rather the last 2 in this pass be first party. But (thankfully) none of us have any idea what Nintendo is planning on with those last 2 slots. And by that I mean nobody has datamined/leaked the last 2, as I hate knowing what will happen instead of having the surprise factor.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

A giant red Kirby as a cacodemon, pink Bowser as a pinky, and 5-6 green Dark Samuses as the possessed soldiers are a must.
The cyberdemon would probably be Meta Ridley, and I dunno who could represent the Spider Mastermind but I guess its spirit battle would involve Mother Brain.

When you said Cacodemon I thought you were talking about Digimon. lol

Plus every Doom fan tells me the track selection would be out of this world.

Get it? 'Cuz the game takes place on Mars?

 

[Dinoman96]

I really don't think a Three Houses rep makes sense at this point in time.

Think about it: Corrin came at just the right time, at the right place when Smash 4's DLC was in development. By the end of 2015, Fire Emblem Fates was released in Japan, but it had yet to be released internationally. So naturally Corrin worked well as a promotional character for a game that the west wasn't familiar with yet.

Thing is, Three Houses is already available worldwide now. By the time we get to the fourth and fifth Fighters Pass characters, 3H will be old news. What exactly would be the point of including a character for the sake of promoting a game that's several months old and which everyone's already played?

 

[Opossum]

Decided to go through all the rumours that have definitively named characters and came up with this list of 8. Obviously we have a few generics like "A Capcom/Namco Rep". And not all of these are from rumours that are as valid as others (some have been completely debunked). But how would people rank these 8 from most to least excited if they were to be the last characters in the fighters pass?

Edelgard
Sylux
Doom Slayer
Monster Hunter
Lloyd Irving
Crash Bandicoot
Ryu Hayabusa
Steve

Also please feel free to remind me of anyone other rumours that still hold some credibility.

A little late on this, but I figured I'd join in.

1. Edelgard - Three Houses is a fantastic game, and Edelgard is a fantastic character. Easily one of my most wanted...especially after Hero kinda killed what remained of Celica's chances.

2. Crash Bandicoot - Another one of my most wanted. The original Crash was one of the first video games I ever played, and the character holds a special place in my heart as a result.

3. Steve - Minecraft is huge, and seeing such a huge icon in the game is always fun. If they give Steve a moveset similar to PSASBR's take on Sackboy, I'd be beyond hyped.

4. Ryu Hayabusa - Pretty much all of the iconic NES/Famicom-era franchises would be present with Hayabusa in. Plus he has so many fun abilities to pull from.

5. Monster Hunter - Another prestigious Capcom franchise gets a fighter. While I'd personally prefer Phoenix Wright, the Monster Hunter would fit right in, especially since Rathalos is already here.

6. Doom Slayer - The character has a long and storied history alongside Nintendo relevance, so why not? Plus my brother would love it since he loves the 2016 game.

7. Lloyd Irving - I'm not really into the Tales of series, but some of my friends are so that's cool. I'd just hope he'd be more fun than his Super Smash Flash 2 version.

8. Sylux - "I swear he'll eventually be important" the character. Probably the only character on this list I outright wouldn't want, to be honest. Nothing about him seems interesting to me.

 

[ze9]

They need to chill with the Fire Emblem characters, there's already way more than enough.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

IMO a new Fire Emblem character shouldn’t happen before at least one of the following:

• 4th Kirby character, be it Bandana Dee or Adeleine
• At least one more Xenoblade character. Still think Rex is done for until Smash 6, and Lora probably won’t ever happen, but at the very least, give us Elma. Or Fiora if you wanna pull a Chrom again and make another FS character playable at the same time. It would just be a disappointment if the only new Xenoblade content we got was the Rex costume and the Spirits.
• (Optional and super unlikely) either Poochy from Yoshi, Medusa from Kid Icarus, a Wario series character that isn’t Ashley (I also count ATs as “gonna have to wait for next game”), or Black Shadow from F-Zero

Tl;dr give other series a chance to “catch up” first. If we WERE to have another FE character as DLC I’d have preferred Celica but it seems Hero fills her niche to an extent

 

[Door Key Pig]

IMO a new Fire Emblem character shouldn’t happen before at least one of the following:

• 4th Kirby character, be it Bandana Dee or Adeleine
• At least one more Xenoblade character. Still think Rex is done for until Smash 6, and Lora probably won’t ever happen, but at the very least, give us Elma. Or Fiora if you wanna pull a Chrom again and make another FS character playable at the same time. It would just be a disappointment if the only new Xenoblade content we got was the Rex costume and the Spirits.
• (Optional and super unlikely) either Poochy from Yoshi, Medusa from Kid Icarus, a Wario series character that isn’t Ashley (I also count ATs as “gonna have to wait for next game”), or Black Shadow from F-Zero

Tl;dr give other series a chance to “catch up” first. If we WERE to have another FE character as DLC I’d have preferred Celica but it seems Hero fills her niche to an extent

Nah they should make sure they got a Rhythm Paradise character in first...

Spoiler

No I'm not salty that Chrom from the Gemetsu leak was denied his Smash 4 spot but THEN got into Ultimate while the Chorus Kids still remained the only character from that to still never get in, nope. Chrom was much easier to develop as an existing franchise echo, see, it's fine!

 

[Predictabo]

One thing that makes me curious about Doom Slayer/Bethesda characters in general: which Spirits/Mii Costumes would you guys see them bringing to Smash?

Too bad Bethesda is afraid to showcase anything New Vegas, because a Mr. House Spirit Battle against a stationary target being protected by an army of ROBs would be awesome

 

[ze9]

Dixie Kong has more priority, too.
But really, practically everything is better than even more Fire Emblem. The series has given everything that it could give and then some.
It is well-represented across the ages, it has a good amount of fan-favorites (Ike and Chrom, and Roy too, even if he is such just because of Smash), and a good representation of the various classes (with magic and transforming characters represented with Robin and Corrin, and the different styles of swordplay with Marth and Ike). Give or take an over-reliance on swords, on counters and on Marth's moveset, the series is very well represented.

Almost every other choice would be more inspired.
Wanna go with more fan-favorites (Isaac, Geno, Dixie, Bandana Dee)? Wanna represent the new Nintendo series (Astral Chain, Xeno 2, ARMS)? Wanna throw in even more crazy 3rd party characters (there's too many to count)?
I really can't see how a 3H character would be add more to Smash than any of these other choices.

 

[krokotopia101]

Aren't Rabbids a 3rd party rep? I mean I'm probably the onle one who can see a Rabbid as a Ubisoft rep above Ezio and Rayman. Aren't they like Ubisoft's main mascot next to Rayman? Plus due there's allot of ideas in movesets in homage to their on the nose Nintendo collab, Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle.

 

[lordvaati]

A Three Houses rep at this stage would be a controversial move since it puts Sakurai's statement about some characters arriving too late to be in the game(Rex, Spring Man etc.) into question. And considering how the Corrin reveal went down the last thing I wanna see is a FE character getting unneeded flak for being in the wrong place at the wrong time once again.

 

[krokotopia101]

A Three Houses rep at this stage would be a controversial move since it puts Sakurai's statement about some characters arriving too late to be in the game(Rex, Spring Man etc.) into question. And considering how the Corrin reveal went down the last thing I wanna see is a FE character getting unneeded flak for being in the wrong place at the wrong time once again.

You mean like how Three Houses is already getting flak for....just existing?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Dixie Kong has more priority, too.
But really, practically everything is better than even more Fire Emblem. The series has given everything that it could give and then some.
It is well-represented across the ages, it has a good amount of fan-favorites (Ike and Chrom, and Roy too, even if he is such just because of Smash), and a good representation of the various classes (with magic and transforming characters represented with Robin and Corrin, and the different styles of swordplay with Marth and Ike). Give or take an over-reliance on swords, on counters and on Marth's moveset, the series is very well represented.

Almost every other choice would be more inspired.
Wanna go with more fan-favorites (Isaac, Geno, Dixie, Bandana Dee)? Wanna represent the new Nintendo series (Astral Chain, Xeno 2, ARMS)? Wanna throw in even more crazy 3rd party characters (there's too many to count)?
I really can't see how a 3H character would be add more to Smash than any of these other choices.

It's not that Fire Emblem doesn't have any more interesting things to add, it's that it's only just starting to make a name for itself while still having double the roster size of already established franchises like Donkey Kong, The Legend of Zelda, and Kirby. On top of this, four of the seven characters from the series are based off of the same moveset. On top of even that, I'd say that the Fire Emblem characters suffer the most from not taking as much from the source material as they maybe could have (or now can due to new developments within the series) causing them to be less interesting then they could be.

A Three Houses rep at this stage would be a controversial move since it puts Sakurai's statement about some characters arriving too late to be in the game(Rex, Spring Man etc.) into question. And considering how the Corrin reveal went down the last thing I wanna see is a FE character getting unneeded flak for being in the wrong place at the wrong time once again.

Considerations for base game: All characters must be known by around 2015.
Considerations for DLC: All characters must be known by 2018.
Why not just make the people that fall in between DLC? I think it's because Sakurai doesn't worry about it until the game is released. I agree with your second statement though.

EDIT: By not worrying about it I mean I think he treats the base game as if it won't have DLC.

 

[tenworldsguy]

People really want Porky in Smash, huh? If not Ultimate, what chances would he have

He's likelier than most first parties people throw around (Eledgrade just came out, Sylux is a "idk maybe he's a villian in 4", and Ado/Poochy aren't fighter's pass material for the most part), considering many factors. But the fact MOTHER already has playable characters and spirits kind of hinders his chances, as most notably- stages and music. How'll they incorperate Porky's stage and its music into the already existing music of MOTHER? Personally I really want him but he's almost certainly not coming.

What few first parties would you say in particular have a shot?

Most, nearly all, notable first parties not in as fighters are more or less deconfirmed- too new, series already has a presence, etc. A lot of people bet on Waluigi but more likely than not the Pass was decided long before the Waluigi outrage, as well as said outrage probably severly hindering Walu's chances in general (Sakuri isn't immune to being spiteful in Smash- we have no non-Sakuri Kirby outside of spirits and a handful of tracks, for an example). In addition to all of this, not only is he a spirit but an assist trophy.

Sakuri really wants us to know he's not getting in this time

About first parties I'm only betting for Waluigi due the massive fan demand (it wasn't normal ) and a 3 Houses character, the biggest issue with first parties for me is the music and the stage if we are talking about series which are already in./QUOTE]

Spoiler: argument against FE/Pokemon DLC

(Read above for Waluigi argument)

I strongly doubt that we're getting a 3H rep (or SwiSh for that matter). Not only is the anti-FE hate extremely strong (to the point of, as mentioned, smash fans dislike 3H for existing) as well as Pokemon hate (look at the Incineroar reveal trailer for an example of how much people want another Pokemon), but both games are extremely new (SwiSH hasn't even been released yet and 3H was just released a few weeks ago). If Rex, a character Sakuri clearly wanted to add, got axed because he was too new, then why would he reserve a slot for some rando FE or Pokemon rep? We shouldn't even pull off the "but he reserved slots for Incin and Grenin" argument because 1) Neither were DLC, and 2) Incineroar wasn't Sm4sh DLC despite the game releasing around that time. Also while FE3H is fairly well recieved Pokemon SwiSh is almost universally hated by Pokemon fans rn
tl, dr: We are surefire not getting a Pokemon or FE rep in DLC unless a Fighter's Pass 2 comes about and there's massive demand for either.

IMO a new Fire Emblem character shouldn’t happen before at least one of the following:

• 4th Kirby character, be it Bandana Dee or Adeleine
• At least one more Xenoblade character. Still think Rex is done for until Smash 6, and Lora probably won’t ever happen, but at the very least, give us Elma. Or Fiora if you wanna pull a Chrom again and make another FS character playable at the same time. It would just be a disappointment if the only new Xenoblade content we got was the Rex costume and the Spirits.
• (Optional and super unlikely) either Poochy from Yoshi, Medusa from Kid Icarus, a Wario series character that isn’t Ashley (I also count ATs as “gonna have to wait for next game”), or Black Shadow from F-Zero

I know this is gonna be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but if we're talking next game base roster I want a new Link that accurately represents one given Link. The current one is just the OoT one with a fresh coat of paint and flashy bomb, and the Yink/Tink combo really don't change much from their base character. You could take a single Link from any one game and you could make a unique moveset all for himself. Take BOTW Link- not only does he have a gagillion weapons he could use but also the Champion's gifts, the Shieka Slate tools, his armors, etc- bam, a unique link, call him BOTW Link and make him his own character (maybe take the BOTW out of current link then). If that's not the case, heavily declone the Link clones and modify Link himself to have less relics in his moveset.
A new Xeno rep of any kind would be cool, esp a XC1 party member, but the series is so cool any new rep would be an automatic thumbs up from me. We need new reps for several series that have been here since the older games. Why not make a list?

Spoiler: long list of series who could use new guys

DK- Funky would be cool, as would Dixie or Crankey
LOZ?- revamps for the Triforce Three (they all kinda suffer from being classics, especially Ganon whose greatest steps to decloning were unique smash attacks), and another villian maybe (my hope is Ghirahim but more realistically Skull Kid or Vaati)
Metroid?- Rundas or Sylux would be awesome. We don't have many ice/electrical themed fighters that aren't just "buy one element get all", the best I can think of for Electric being Pikas and Ice the Icies.
Yoshi- Kamek as a mage archetype, or Poochie as a good boy.
Kirby- Bandee or Ado. I'd prefer Ado but Bandee is a lot more popular
Mother- Ninten or Porky. I see Giygu as a Mewtwo echo being tossed around on occasion, too
F-Zero- Goroh would be pretty cool. We don't have many heavy sword users, let alone a techno-themed one.
(FE needs no more reps but if we get one more Eledgarde or Lyn would be neat)
Kid Icarus- Viridi as a Palutena semiclone or Hades as a Ganon echo? If we're going deep then practically any major KI char can be a fighter (but I'd love to see Magnus or Phosphora)
Pikmin- (biased here) Louie as a unique fighter and Alph/Charlie/Britanny as potential Olimar echoes. If you want to go Plant-mode then there's always Bulborb.
Wario- some folks really want Ashely but Syrup or just Warioware as a whole could be fighters (Warioware could be every employee of it partaking in some help as a fighter idk)
Xenoblade- any party member could work, but as priorities I see Rex, Elma, and maybe Fiora.
FF- Black Mage or someone from FF6, to have a character with actual history w Nintendo
might be too much to ask considering Konami atm but can i ask for Alucard please

 

[Jonathan Motes]

Not to sound like a jerk, but why is there such a hype for wanting Geno in Smash? He's been requested for so long and I don't get it. Is it a nostalgia thing?

I also would ask the same about many other characters but it's easy to start with Geno.

Honestly I think it comes down to Geno being perceived as a cool character, and SMRPG being held in high regard by a devoted subset of fans. That's how it kicked off, at least. But it was enough for Sakurai to take note. Now the "cool factor" has maintained, but I'd guess what has really guided Geno for a long time is the belief that he's likely, built partially on the backs of developments like the costume, Sakurai's statement, and Square's involvement. Before those elements, support was definitely waning. Still, I'd reckon a good portion of his fanbase hasn't actually played his game.

People flock to characters they believe stand a good chance. For example, the support for Doom Slayer between now and two years ago is night and day. Even though nothing about the character themselves has changed in that time-span. Nor, really, has the Nintendo support (not that that really matters). People say his series is seminal and the character "iconic". But that's as true now as it has been the entirety of Smash's existence. Then you get a Smash acknowledgement from Bethesda and some new releases on the Switch, perception changes, and popularity suddenly follows.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. People deem a character likely, enough people buy in, that character's popularity raises to the point it becomes true. Or at least, truer than it was. Geno had an appealing design with attractive moveset potential, so even people unfamiliar with his game agreed he would be nice to see. Soon the movement becomes larger than the fans of the game it began with, and new people are retroactively playing the game and becoming fans themselves. I've noticed a similar phenomenon within the Isaac thread, where people say they're trying Golden Sun out because of how the fanbase raves about it, then many become fans in their own right.

Despite all that, his situation is an anomaly. Even for diehard fanbase characters. At least characters like K. Rool, Isaac, Ridley... how they accrued popularity is more readily apparent.

N3ON hits on something important when it comes to understanding speculation. Characters and ideas don't rise up in popularity entirely by their original 'merits,' as you could say. Factors like perceived likelihood play a part as well; fans are less likely to pour their hearts into the idea of something that might happen if they believe it's truly unrealistic.

Similarly, once you have a popular idea within a community, that popularity reinforces itself. Characters like Geno benefit from their pre-established popularity ensuring that they'll always be relevant in discourse even in the absence of new material to work with. This can help draw new supporters in, but it can also draw out questions about why this character is so popular. Ironically, such questions help keep said character in the center of discourse, once again reinforcing their status.

In a way, Geno is an anomaly when compared to other popular characters, but he's also a demonstration of how certain ideas can achieve status within fandoms provided the right conditions are met. You get a cool idea with just enough of a realistic chance and you can get surprisingly far, especially if it's an idea that fans have been attached to for generations.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know this is gonna be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but if we're talking next game base roster I want a new Link that accurately represents one given Link. The current one is just the OoT one with a fresh coat of paint and flashy bomb, and the Yink/Tink combo really don't change much from their base character. You could take a single Link from any one game and you could make a unique moveset all for himself. Take BOTW Link- not only does he have a gagillion weapons he could use but also the Champion's gifts, the Shieka Slate tools, his armors, etc- bam, a unique link, call him BOTW Link and make him his own character (maybe take the BOTW out of current link then). If that's not the case, heavily declone the Link clones and modify Link himself to have less relics in his moveset.

My thinking is that they make dub the base Link "Wild Link" (or something) and have him use the design philosophies of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and its sequel (just as you say) and then add an echo fighter simply named Link that uses the design philosophies of the past Zelda games (so basically the Link we currently have, but it's an amalgam of the Links in Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword). Then keep Toon Link, and have him represent the top down Zelda titles (with a little bit of Wind Waker thrown in). If Young Link makes it in then he can stay as is (just with a new Final Smash) or change a bit more. It doesn't really matter since he'll be a cake icing edition to the roster.

Spoiler: Characters from existing series that I think would be cool

Super Mario-Captain Toad would be an interesting addition due to his gimmicks, and he could also portray how items work in the 2D Mario series.
Donkey Kong-Dixie Kong & Kiddy Kong a two fighters that show off the mechanics of the older Donkey Kong Country series.
The Legend of Zelda-Ganon because he appears a lot more often than Ganondorf and because I don't really want him to be changed too much.
Metroid-A Metroid from Metroid 2: Samus Returns could be an interesting slow burn character that gets better over time.
Yoshi-Poochy. Because yes.
Kirby-Bandana Waddle Dee, and pretty much any playable character from Kirby Star Allies. They're all amazing (Though I'm not particularly fond of Suzie or Taranza).
Pokémon-Arceus. I can't explain why but I really want this.
Mega Man-I think Zero is the best choice for another unique fighter since X would just be more Mega Man in terms of gameplay.
Mii-This isn't really a character per say but please make the Miis more interesting/charming in their own right.
Xenoblade Chronicles-Elma and Rex would both bring some interesting things to the table, but I'm gonna pick Elma here since she would be more unique than Rex would in terms of gamefeel compared to the rest of the roster.

The list is focused on unique fighters so no echoes were listed.
I also wanted to add Black Mage, but its technically not from a currently represented franchise (Final Fantasy VII is just Final Fantasy VII. I kinda wish it and Persona 5 dropped their number monikers to be honest).

 

[StormC]

I wonder if fighter 4 is a completely new character (no presence in Ultimate), there will still be debate on whether or not Spirits deconfirm for the Fighters Pass.

 

[yeet123]

Every fighter on the pass is going to be completely new to the series.

If they decide to release a bonus character, a la Piranha Plant, it's gonna be Waluigi. Everyone on here is right; his demand is so big that it has even been acknowledged by Nintendo.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wonder if fighter 4 is a completely new character (no presence in Ultimate), there will still be debate on whether or not Spirits deconfirm for the Fighters Pass.

If it’s a third party character then yeah the debate will still continue

If it’s a Nintendo character, however, and one that doesn’t have a Spirit... Chaos will ensue

If it’s a Nintendo character that DOES have a Spirit... I guess the “they deconfirm” camp will just take the L

 

[3BitSaurus]

I wonder if fighter 4 is a completely new character (no presence in Ultimate), there will still be debate on whether or not Spirits deconfirm for the Fighters Pass.

I think the bigger question would be: if there is more DLC after the Pass, would Spirits still deconfirm?

I personally think it's unlikely that Sakurai and his team would plan this far ahead when choosing which characters should be Spirits. I also doubt that, in the event that the pass is entirely third-party, we would get mostly third-party DLC with no new Nintendo characters.

So if that happens, I think speculation would turn on its head. We'de be scrambling for which Spirits could be promoted.

 

[yeet123]

I bet that after fighter 5 they drop a few echoes to give the dev team and Sakurai a well deserved break. Then after a few months - a year, they do Fighters Pass 2

 

[Dark Bagel]

Almost every other choice would be more inspired.
Wanna go with more fan-favorites (Isaac, Geno, Dixie, Bandana Dee)? Wanna represent the new Nintendo series (Astral Chain, Xeno 2, ARMS)? Wanna throw in even more crazy 3rd party characters (there's too many to count)?
I really can't see how a 3H character would be add more to Smash than any of these other choices.

Speaking of Astral Chain, do any of you guys think the reps from there have a shot at being in Smash Ultimate at some point, or do you believe they're more plausible canidates for the next installment? Also since there's a headlining male and female protagonist, which one do you think is more likely to be included, or will they go towards the echo fighter/alt costume route, including them both?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Speaking of Astral Chain, do any of you guys think the reps from there have a shot at being in Smash Ultimate at some point, or do you believe they're more plausible canidates for the next installment? Also since there's a headlining male and female protagonist, which one do you think is more likely to be included, or will they go towards the echo fighter/alt costume route, including them both?

If they're not a promo pick then it will depend on reception and how long its popularity lasts. If they did get in they would probably use both since they seem to be interchangeable.

 

[StormC]

I think the bigger question would be: if there is more DLC after the Pass, would Spirits still deconfirm?

I personally think it's unlikely that Sakurai and his team would plan this far ahead when choosing which characters should be Spirits. I also doubt that, in the event that the pass is entirely third-party, we would get mostly third-party DLC with no new Nintendo characters.

So if that happens, I think speculation would turn on its head. We'de be scrambling for which Spirits could be promoted.

I think anything is fair game for post-Pass DLC.

Spoiler

Shame we won’t get any.