Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[dezeray112]

Its almost been 3 months since the Hero and Banjo-Kazooie were unveiled at Nintendo's E3 Direct.

I do anticipate that there will be another Direct coming soon (either this month or next month) and thats where I believe we will get the next DLC fighter revealed.

 

[SmashDrone_07]

This is random but what would you think about Scrooge McDuck in Smash. This is something that just crossed my mind.

 

[Slime Scholar]

I keep seeing Joker called a "Sakurai pick" and I feel a little lost when it's already been stated that Nintendo more or less chose the DLC lineup. Did something happen? Some people have gone so far as to say that Joker is somehow the exception to that because "Sakurai bias" and I really can't tell if that's based in fact or if it's some dumb assumption based on him liking Persona 5.

I still think character four reveal in the September Direct for release in Nov/Dec, with character five reveal in Dec/Jan for release in Feb makes the most sense schedule-wise, so that's what I'm predicting.

Other than Hero not releasing during E3, everything else is tracking pretty closely to what I expected so far.

I'm leaning toward this myself. A relatively steady stream of reveals/releases that don't draw too much attention away from each other.

That and we get a Direct pretty much every September and it seems like a good time to announce a fighter that's a few months off.

 

[Flyboy]

This is random but what would you think about Scrooge McDuck in Smash. This is something that just crossed my mind.

He is one of the few non-game characters I'd love to see in Smash and one of my personal pipe dreams. I love ducks, I love DuckTales, I love the DuckTales game, and being able to have the MOON THEME in Smash?? Plus the cane pogo moveset? Big time yes from me. He and James Bond would be characters I'd welcome with open arms. Classic character with classic games.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

At the rate they're going I don't think they'll make their deadline. Nintendo delays things all the time. They always believe in taking the time they need to make sure a product is as good as it can be. So when they say Animal Crossing is coming out in 2019, it might end up being 2020. It happens.

I know Sakurai and his team are not Nintendo, but I think he agrees with this principal and is not like other companies who will rush out something.

These are my thoughts as well. Though most people assume that they will meet their deadline until told otherwise.

 

[UberPyro64]

May 1980 - Pac-Man
May 1986 - Dragon Quest
September 1986 - Castlevania
July 1987 - Metal Gear
August 1987 - Street Fighter
September 1987 - Megami Tensei (Persona)
December 1987 - Mega Man
December 1987 - Final Fantasy
October 1988 - Ninja Gaiden

We're just missing the last one. Will this list be completed?

 

[Garteam]

This is the way I expect things:
September Direct - Quick segment teasing 5.0 and Banjo
Banjo Overview - Quick trailer going over Banjo and the new additions to 5.0
November Direct - Ends with Fighter #4 and an announcement of one final major Smash direct in a month
December Smash Direct - Gives a full overview of Fighter #4 and their release date, Fighter #5's announcement and overview, and a final goodbye from Sakurai.
February - Fighter #5's release date

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

what character do you think would the hardest to translate into smash if they were picked up for dlc/future games.

 

[Deleted member]

I keep seeing Joker called a "Sakurai pick" and I feel a little lost when it's already been stated that Nintendo more or less chose the DLC lineup. Did something happen? Some people have gone so far as to say that Joker is somehow the exception to that because "Sakurai bias" and I really can't tell if that's based in fact or if it's some dumb assumption based on him liking Persona 5.

Awhile ago, there was an interview with an important figure at Atlus which said that Sakurai came to them in regards to Smash with no mention of Nintendo, which made some people question if he has more influence on the Fighter Pass than we may have thought. Considering Persona 5 was credited as inspiration for Smash's UI in a way, I assume it connects the dots to why people believe Joker is considered a "Sakurai pick".

 

[Will]

September 1987 - Megami Tensei (Persona)

isn't that the (at this point totally unrelated) novel and not the game series

or are you taling about SMT

 

[ze9]

All 3 characters feel like Sakurai picks, to be honest.
He has said that he loves Persona 5, that Dragon Quest left a big impact on him, and that he wanted to include Banjo in Melee (and he obviously had the character in mind when he designed Duck Hunt).
They probably line up with Nintendo's interests, though. I think they just decided on them together.
(and that's another point in Doomguy's favor)

I'm not worried about the deadline, I'm sure they'll respect it. It may not look like it, but february is still quite far.

 

[Koopaul]

This is the way I expect things:
September Direct - Quick segment teasing 5.0 and Banjo
Banjo Overview - Quick trailer going over Banjo and the new additions to 5.0
November Direct - Ends with Fighter #4 and an announcement of one final major Smash direct in a month
December Smash Direct - Gives a full overview of Fighter #4 and their release date, Fighter #5's announcement and overview, and a final goodbye from Sakurai.
February - Fighter #5's release date

Nintendo doesn't have Directs so close to each other unless they are mini Directs.

My prediction?

-An early October Nintendo Direct will tease Banjo and version 5.0
-Late October or early November Sakurai will release a Banjo breakdown video, and later that day/ the next day Banjo will be available to download.
-January 2020 Nintendo Direct will show a trailer for Fighter #4. It will be released in late Winter. Sakurai will personally apologize saying the last two fighters will take a little longer "Thank you for your patience."
-In February 2020 Sakurai will release a special breakdown video for fighter #4 and the fighter will be downloadable later that day/next day.
-The Spring 2020 Nintendo Direct will show the trailer for the last fighter. The fighter will be available in April or May.

Maybe I'm wrong. And things could happen a lot quicker than this. But prepare for this as a possibility.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

All 3 characters feel like Sakurai picks, to be honest.

Which worries me, since the characters I'm hoping for most (Dragonborn, Prince of All Cosmos, etc) face tough competition from characters he's mentioned/potential "Sakurai Picks" (Lloyd, Heihachi, Doomguy, etc).


Also I don't think they will wait until Spring for Fighter #5. We'll likely get a #4 reveal in a September Direct around the time of Banjo's release (if the amiibo theory holds true), with a #5 reveal in a January Direct with a February release date, holding true to the schedule.

 

[Dark Bagel]

He is one of the few non-game characters I'd love to see in Smash and one of my personal pipe dreams. I love ducks, I love DuckTales, I love the DuckTales game, and being able to have the MOON THEME in Smash?? Plus the cane pogo moveset? Big time yes from me. He and James Bond would be characters I'd welcome with open arms. Classic character with classic games.

I'd like to think Scrooge is included in smash in spirit, considering Shovel Knight takes heavy inspiration from him gameplay-wise.

 

[GoodGrief741]

isn't that the (at this point totally unrelated) novel and not the game series

or are you taling about SMT

Megami Tensei is also the name of the first game in the franchise. Technically Shin Megami Tensei is a spin-off.

 

[Deleted member]

Going to be totally honest. The whole "Sakurai picks" argument is pretty much a reach, as it has been shown from time to time, Sakurai plays a lot of games from multiple consoles/genres. I'm sure he likes a lot of characters irregardless of the first/third-party status or if he hasn't mentioned them before.

 

[Leotsune]

Going to be totally honest. The whole "Sakurai picks" argument is pretty much a reach, as it has been shown from time to time, Sakurai plays a lot of games from multiple consoles/genres. I'm sure he likes a lot of characters irregardless of the first/third-party status or if he hasn't mentioned them before.

Yeah we know the man is a connoisseur of gaming history, but I'm pretty sure Sakurai hasn't played Patapon.

 

[Rangez]

How do you all feel if we got another scenario like with Hero and Banjo & Kazooie? Two newly-represented franchises, each catered towards both the European and Japanese respectively, and being more popular in the former than in the latter and vice-versa? Just something I've made for fun.

Arle would be an unexpected choice for sure, as it would be curious for how they would implement a character from a traditional puzzle matching series into Smash. I don't really see Ezio being mentioned alot in these threads, and I know many would very much prefer Rayman getting in because he "deserves" to be playable, but I can see some potential within Ezio given his variety of his combat and his skills as an assassin.

 

[N3ON]

View attachment 233852

How do you all feel if we got another scenario like with Hero and Banjo & Kazooie? Two newly-represented franchises, each catered towards both the Northern and Eastern respectively, and being more popular in the former than in the latter and vice-versa? Just something I've made for fun.

Arle would be an unexpected choice for sure, as it would be curious for how they would implement a character from a traditional puzzle matching series into Smash. I don't really see Ezio being mentioned alot in these threads, and I know many would very much prefer Rayman getting in because he "deserves" to be playable, but I can see some potential within Ezio given his variety of his combat and his skills as an assassin.

Northern? In any case, the concept seems fair to me, though if they picked another character to cater to the western fans, I'd hope it would be one they actually seem largely interested in... like Doom Slayer or Crash or Rayman or someone.

 

[Will]

tfw arle gets in before tetromino

 

[GoodGrief741]

View attachment 233852

How do you all feel if we got another scenario like with Hero and Banjo & Kazooie? Two newly-represented franchises, each catered towards both the Northern and Eastern respectively, and being more popular in the former than in the latter and vice-versa? Just something I've made for fun.

Arle would be an unexpected choice for sure, as it would be curious for how they would implement a character from a traditional puzzle matching series into Smash. I don't really see Ezio being mentioned alot in these threads, and I know many would very much prefer Rayman getting in because he "deserves" to be playable, but I can see some potential within Ezio given his variety of his combat and his skills as an assassin.

This feels kind of like a discount version of the E3 reveals. Puyo Puyo is more of a B-tier gaming franchise (or more precisely, an A-tier in Japan and C-tier anywhere else), it's not really highly demanded or that big and influential.

Meanwhile as a Western pick, Assassin's Creed is kind of dark horse tbh. Not really demanded, and while iconic and influential, I don't think it's big enough with Smash fans or even Western fans to offset the 'who is this?' of Puyo Puyo getting in with it.

Plus Sega already got a character so yeah I don't see it.

 

[Deathcarter]

Going to be totally honest. The whole "Sakurai picks" argument is pretty much a reach, as it has been shown from time to time, Sakurai plays a lot of games from multiple consoles/genres. I'm sure he likes a lot of characters irregardless of the first/third-party status or if he hasn't mentioned them before.

Eh, I'd definitely say at least Ness, Shulk, and Joker were biased picks on Sakurai's part. I can't see MOTHER, Xenoblade or Persona getting in if Sakurai wasn't enamored with them.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh, I'd definitely say at least Ness, Shulk, and Joker were biased picks on Sakurai's part. I can't see MOTHER, Xenoblade or Persona getting in if Sakurai wasn't enamored with them.

Mother is a popular series in Japan and Itoi is quite a popular figure there, plus Mother 3 was being in development for the N64. Xenoblade was a sleeper hit from Nintendo that was brought to the West due to fan demand and also Xenoblade Chronicles X was on its way, Persona 5 was a widely popular game that even got a few GOTY awards and there are a few spinoffs in development. I would say pretty much every character has a few reasons as to why they got into the game, Sakurai is a professional after all.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Awhile ago, there was an interview with an important figure at Atlus which said that Sakurai came to them in regards to Smash with no mention of Nintendo, which made some people question if he has more influence on the Fighter Pass than we may have thought. Considering Persona 5 was credited as inspiration for Smash's UI in a way, I assume it connects the dots to why people believe Joker is considered a "Sakurai pick".

Thank you. That's definitely interesting.

With that said, I'm not sure Sakurai being the one to contact Atlus and start negotiations means that the character wasn't suggested by Nintendo first. Like, it really doesn't prove anything and Sakurai's own words seem to contradict it. I don't mean to be overly nitpicky here, but in reality we fans have very little insight on how characters are chosen and I don't think we should claim to know anything with absolute certainty. I have literally seen people, on this site and others, accuse Sakurai of outright lying when he mentioned the DLC being chosen by Nintendo, which rubs me the wrong way.

How do you all feel if we got another scenario like with Hero and Banjo & Kazooie? Two newly-represented franchises, each catered towards both the Northern and Eastern respectively, and being more popular in the former than in the latter and vice-versa? Just something I've made for fun.

Just curious; how are we defining a series that caters to the East/West? Does the western series have to be developed outside of Japan?

I'm struggling to think of western-developed Smash characters that would get more than an "oh, neat" out of me. The ones that do are frankly absurd picks that even most western Smash fans would be scratching their heads at.

 

[Will]

Just curious; how are we defining a series that caters to the East/West? Does the western series have to be developed outside of Japan?

It's either that or being loved more by the West than the East.

Popular DLC Discussion Western picks right now are Doom Slayer and Sans.

 

[NextChannelGames]

Any Datamine for Smash 4.0?

Which worries me, since the characters I'm hoping for most (Dragonborn, Prince of All Cosmos, etc) face tough competition from characters he's mentioned/potential "Sakurai Picks" (Lloyd, Heihachi, Doomguy, etc).

When did Sakurai mention Doom?

 

[N3ON]

When did Sakurai mention Doom?

When talking about developers born in 1970, the only non-Japanese dev he listed was John Carmack, who he referred to as the father of the FPS.

He didn't actually mention DOOM. Though it seems he clearly appreciates Carmack's work.

Frankly the most interesting part of this whole thing is that Sakurai knew and could list eight developers born just in 1970 off the top of his head.

 

[perfectchaos83]

When did Sakurai mention Doom?

He never name dropped Doomguy. But he did list John Carmack as an influencial Game developers born in the 70's. He was not the only person name dropped in that thought. Others were as well such as Yoko Taro. It's something that doesn't mean anything.

 

[N3ON]

Keep in mind it's not the 70's he was referring to, it's literally just 1970. That speaks a little bit more to how Sakurai is an encyclopedia rather than how large the field he was working with to pluck Carmack out of it.

 

[UberPyro64]

isn't that the (at this point totally unrelated) novel and not the game series

or are you taling about SMT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Devil_Story:_Megami_Tensei

The first game is called "Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei".

 

[Ornl]

Awhile ago, there was an interview with an important figure at Atlus which said that Sakurai came to them in regards to Smash with no mention of Nintendo, which made some people question if he has more influence on the Fighter Pass than we may have thought. Considering Persona 5 was credited as inspiration for Smash's UI in a way, I assume it connects the dots to why people believe Joker is considered a "Sakurai pick".

I agree.
- Even though Megami Tensei/Persona has its first 9 games on Nintendo consoles, appeared on NES, SNES, Wii, Wii U, Switch, GB, GBA, NDS, 3DS and Virtual Boy, it isn't Megami Tensei which is at the honor in Ultimate. Joker seems to be the Sakurai's choice who, like most Japaneses in 2017, loved Persona 5. Joker would be the choice by Sakurai honors, not by historical legitimacy.
- It's the opposite about Hero, who seems to be the choice by historical legitimacy (Most games and best selling third party on Nintendo, present in the animated series Captain N (1989), specific logo version when the series is released by Nintendo, appeared in three Mario games...).
- Banjo-Kazooie would be both a ballot choice and the choice of the character that was missing in Melee.
There would be these three different motivations. Joker and Luminary are also consistent with this Sakurai statement: "Smash tend to have characters from older series. But just old characters wouldn’t make Smash worthy. If there is no new series, then the selection of the characters will be from the old series.".

 

[smashingDoug]

One of the very few things I know about the Duke Nukem series is that there are restrooms in Duke Nukem Forever. If you search these restrooms you can find poop in the toilet that you can eat to restore a bit of health.

Spoiler: Semi-Long Winded Explanation of my Thoughts

I think it depends on the game. Super Smash Bros. has a lot of avatar and self-insert characters (like Robin and Ness respectively) and the only characters that are bland in the personality department are Corrin (due to bad writing), Hero (I suspect this is because four heroes of varying personalities are sharing animations), and the Mii Fighters (which is a shame really because the Miis are quite charming in literally every other series they appear in).

As for the series you've listed, the Monster Hunter series seems to pride itself on being bombastic and having over the top levels of epicness, and a playable Monster Hunter's personality would reflect that (also the Monster Hunter's animations outside of battle are quite goofy so there's that). Skyrim's customization is so integral to gameplay that a playable Dragonborn would likely have a class switching mechanic, allowing the dev team to give the character mannerisms that are evocative of that style of play (ex. a sneaky thief). Steve's personality would come from the quirkyness of Minecraft's animations. It may not be a personality in the traditional sense but I don't think the character would feel bland or soulless. A Dark Souls character would probably pull from it's Gothic atmosphere, and might not even use the player character anyway. I've heard people talking about Solaire long before the Chosen Undead so they might just go with the one that is an actual character. As for Fallout...I dunno. It seems like the series' most notable character doesn't physically exist within the series so I'm not sure what they'd do with it.

Unless you wanted to be able to play all of the characters like I do.

You have not played Duke Nukum Forever. you can toss it around. But You can't eat it. Like WTF where did you read this?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You have not played Duke Nukum Forever. you can toss it around. But You can't eat it. Like WTF where did you read this?

No I haven't. I think it was OutsideXbox that reported it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

This is random but what would you think about Scrooge McDuck in Smash. This is something that just crossed my mind.

I love those games, but pretty sure we're not getting any non-video game characters in Smash.

And even if we did, Scrooge is probably not at the top of the list.

I'd like to think Scrooge is included in smash in spirit, considering Shovel Knight takes heavy inspiration from him gameplay-wise.

We also got a Cranky Kong spirit and Cranky is pretty much straight Scrooge in Tropical Freeze.

 

[andree123]

Sound test voice theory time

Spoiler

There are four empty slots in the voice section of the sound test menu as of 4.0.0, one of which is going to be taken by Banjo and Kazooie, and this leaves us three empty slots.
The three empty slots could be filled by:

• One voiced fighter with a different character/opposite gender alt and another fighter with a voice
• Three voiced fighters which possibly means a new post fighters pass fighter is coming or surprisingly, all three of them share one slot like Pokemon Trainer which possibly means that last fighters pass fighter may be voiced or not.
• One fighter with two more different character alts which means that the next fighter doesn't have a voice.

But there is a chance that we may get a fighter with more than three alts which leads into new theories that the 10 remaining unannounced placeholder DLC fighter slots in the WOL CSS files could be real.

 

[ze9]

Did the 4 slots appear in some datamine or is it just a matter of how the icons are arranged?

 

[Izanagi97]

Sound test voice theory time

Spoiler

View attachment 233928
There are four empty slots in the voice section of the sound test menu as of 4.0.0, one of which is going to be taken by Banjo and Kazooie, and this leaves us three empty slots.
The three empty slots could be filled by:

• One voiced fighter with a different character/opposite gender alt and another fighter with a voice
• Three voiced fighters which possibly means a new post fighters pass fighter is coming or surprisingly, all three of them share one slot like Pokemon Trainer which possibly means that last fighters pass fighter may be voiced or not.
• One fighter with two more different character alts which means that the next fighter doesn't have a voice.

But there is a chance that we may get a fighter with more than three alts which leads into new theories that the 10 remaining unannounced placeholder DLC fighter slots in the WOL CSS files could be real.

That does sound interesting

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

The Sound theory has some decent evidence to become true in the near future.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Regarding sound theory, here are some ideas I could see panning out
-Male and Female Monster Hunters
-2 RE characters (Jill & Chris, Leon & Claire, etc)
-Astral Chain characters

 

[Deleted member]

Sound theory may fit Crash too if we get Coco Bandicoot as an alt.

Time will tell, although I still don't fully latch into any single theory.