Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[CannonStreak]

A lotta Kojima characters are Bi including Snake and Big Boss.

So, what about Kojima himself?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I do have to wonder, within the context of that Suda quote about Travis, how much pull Sakurai would have if Suda really asked nicely.

Considering the amount of DLC newcomers we’ve had, it’s almost along the lines of the total newcomers we’ve had in precious Smash games. It’s almost like it’s a new game...hmm.

Nah, I still think Smash NX is a Smash 4 port.

 

[Lamperouge]

Very funny, but don't assume something about me, let alone others, just because of a text sentence of what I said. Text only tells so much, and I was not raising my voice with that first post. I only said that because, well, I thought the mods would step in and do something about it, as if it was against the rules. I could have been wrong, but believe me, I have been to places where it was the case.

Once again, you don't know what I was doing. I don't even know what Shiny asked. But this is turning into an unneeded argument. Just let it go. I was trying to speak for myself. Some people just made assumptions about me, or what I was doing. Like I said, I meant no harm.

Practice what you preach, man. Jesus.

 

[Monue]

Yeah, that would be Vivian. She's supposed to be trans in most versions, but this was from the 2003's, so social norms at the time led to that being censored out in some translations.

Vivian is presented as being trans in the Japanese version of TTYD.

Vivian. I think she was transgender in Japan, but all references to that were removed in the international versions, because of course they were.

And hey, I doubt that the mods will mind too terribly much if we go a bit off-topic. We really haven't been getting much in the way of Smash-relevant news recently, after all.

Very cool! Unfortunate about the international releases. It's good to see Nintendo allows the occasional scrap of representation for the community in their big name franchises - something like Mario. I wish they'd do more, but I know these things are viewed differently around the world and have changed over time.

Since we're talking about characters that are Bi and Homo-Sexual, what about characters that are Asexual?

Would love more aro/ace characters! While personally I'll die on the hill Ike is gay and in a relationship with Soren at the end, there is a lot of merit to the argument that he's ace as well. He's just definitely not straight. :B

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Snake is basically his MGS2 suit with Big Boss's face from MGS3 so I guess Big Boss counts.

Solid Snake has been implied to be Bi as well. Mostly with Otacon like in the ending of MGS1 and their relationship in MGS2.

 

[CannonStreak]

Practice what you preach, man. Jesus.

Geez, I just didn't know if it was against the rules, and I thought there would be trouble. Sorry if I caused any damage, but I was not trying to harm any one.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I do have to wonder, within the context of that Suda quote about Travis, how much pull Sakurai would have if Suda really asked nicely.

Considering the amount of DLC newcomers we’ve had, it’s almost along the lines of the total newcomers we’ve had in precious Smash games. It’s almost like it’s a new game...hmm.

If anything I think Sakurai ignoring Suda's appeal (for the third time I think?) shows he's sadly not interested in adding Travis despite how close Suda is to Sakurai. I feel like Travis getting in will be from Nintendo themselves instead of Sakurai.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Outside of completely avatar characters like Villager and Miis (where you make up their identity), I think the only canonically LGBTQ+ playable characters in Smash are Corrin and Byleth who are both bi.

Pretty sure every other instance is either headcanon, subtext, or misunderstandings.

Though depending on how whether Snake is simply Solid Snake or meant to be all the Snakes I suppose we could add him to the mix. Big Boss is bi I think.

Yeah, in most series a character's sexuality is either unimportant (Kid Icarus, Kirby, Wii Fit, etc.) or explicitly straight (I can only really think of Super Mario here actually).

I think Fire Emblem, Earthbound, and technically Pokémon are really the only series that have major queer characters if we're not counting avatars.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I do have to wonder, within the context of that Suda quote about Travis, how much pull Sakurai would have if Suda really asked nicely.

Considering the amount of DLC newcomers we’ve had, it’s almost along the lines of the total newcomers we’ve had in precious Smash games. It’s almost like it’s a new game...hmm.

Honestly, this kind of thing coming from Suda is what makes me think Travis is a when rather than an if.

Granted, it might not be in Ultimate, but I think he'll eventually make it.

As for the amount of DLC, I think the only things stopping Smash from becoming an "eternal evergreen" are budget and Sakurai & team preferring to be done with a Smash game and moving to other projects. I mean, we're in the middle of a wave of DLC that wasn't planned and is only a thing because of how well Base and Wave 1 sold, no?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

CannonStreak

I don't think you're a bigot but I do think you've put your foot in your mouth.

It's probably best to just accept that and move on.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

A nun-humanoid robot is probably the best we could hope for.

I need R.O.B. in a nun costume! Stat!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

On the topic of representation, it’s tough to really say which characters would hit certain aspects of said representation. Much of the gaming industry, let alone characters that we could consider “viable” for Smash, lacks characters that are differentiated in the gender spectrum or even racially for that matter.

Smash already has a pretty pasty roster, but that’s largely because the source material doesn’t really provide very many options, aside from a select few. In terms of gender, Tracer is arguably one of the most visible LGBTQ+ gaming characters and it seems like she’s probably out.

It seems pretty clear that in terms of selection, representation isn’t like a major aspect of the selection. Rather, it seems to be looking for fun gameplay opportunities. That said, I think it’s relevant to acknowledge that, maybe, some folks would like to feel seen in popular media rather than within the sea of consistently straight, white male protagonists.

This also isn’t to say that folks of any race, creed, gender, etc can’t identify with someone who isn’t the same race, creed, or gender, etc. but again, when there aren’t many people “like you” in popular media it’s validating to see it happen.

As a straight white dude, many characters reflect my own image (except my crooked spine). Not everyone is so lucky.

 

[CannonStreak]

CannonStreak

I don't think you're a bigot but I do think you've put your foot in your mouth.

It's probably best to just accept that and move on.

I just said some things based on something I thought was the case. Like I said, I am sorry if I meant harm, but I wasn't even trying to put my foot in my mouth.

 

[Calamitas]

Would love more aro/ace characters! While personally I'll die on the hill Ike is gay and in a relationship with Soren at the end, there is a lot of merit to the argument that he's ace as well. He's just definitely not straight. :B

I still maintain that's Dunban over there Xenobladechronicles is ace. He's only a Final Smash assist and a Mii costume, but eh, he's still cool.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Even though Smash Snake is a composite of Solid Snake and Big Boss, his fighter spirit is explicitly Solid Snake. Make of that what you will.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

For clarity on CannonStreak . He believed that we did not invite the discussion of the LGBTQ+ community when we actually do. Our inclusivity policy is open to all of our users of the LGBTQ+ community and thus a lot of discussion revolving around their community is welcome. Hate speech surrounding that community is not allowed and that is what SonicSmasher was afraid of. Other places will outright ban discussion of sexual orientation to avoid the chance of this. That is not our goal here. Our goal is to have an open place for people of all orientation to be able to discuss that topic as long as it stays within the age rating associated with the website.

Discussion of sexual orientation is welcome and since this is the newcomer thread discussion of sexual orientation pertaining to the characters is fine. However, discussion in accordance to you or others individually should be taken to a more appropriate thread like The Social Thread.

Ike is a Gay ass mother ****** and we stan him.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

 

[CannonStreak]

I still maintain that's Dunban over there Xenobladechronicles is ace. He's only a Final Smash assist and a Mii costume, but eh, he's still cool.

Based on what I know about him, yep.

But please enlighten me, what does ace mean in this case?

 

[Will]

I only said that because, well, I thought the mods would step in and do something about it, as if it was against the rules.

Geez, I just didn't know if it was against the rules, and I thought there would be trouble.

You know the question is "Why would talking about LGBT characters be against the rules" but this rabbit hole is only gonna go further down the more questions I throw. I will simply pretend I didn't see it.

In terms of gender, Tracer is arguably one of the most visible LGBTQ+ gaming characters and it seems like she’s probably out.

Do people still want Tracer after the whole Blizzard X China thing last year?

 

[cosmicB]

That said, I think it’s relevant to acknowledge that, maybe, some folks would like to feel seen in popular media rather than within the sea of consistently straight, white male protagonists.

I would argue the majority of the human Smash roster is not white.

 

[Deleted member]

How is my list?

Canonically LGBTQ+:

Implied:

Depends:

 

[Will]

I would argue the majority of the human Smash roster is not white.

Enlighten me on your Game Theory.

How is my list?

Canonically LGBTQ+:

Implied:

Depends:

Where did Joker and Samus come from?

 

[CannonStreak]

You know the question is "Why would talking about LGBT characters be against the rules" but this rabbit hole is only gonna go further down the more questions I throw. I will simply pretend I didn't see it.


Do people still want Tracer after the whole Blizzard X China thing last year?

It isn't. Just a mistaken belief I had. But while I do apologize for that, I meant no harm, either way. After all, I do respect LGBTQ people.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

and it seems like she’s probably out.

Well yeah that’s the point

 

[SirBillyBob]

Do people still want Tracer after the whole Blizzard X China thing last year?

People still wanted Snake back even after the Kojima-Konami shenanigans happened. Tracer wouldn't be that different.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I still maintain that Dunban Xenobladechronicles...

That's...quite the surname.

Enlighten me on your Game Theory.

Probably something about them being Asian.

 

[Will]

People still wanted Snake back even after the Kojima-Konami shenanigans happene. Tracer wouldn't be that different.

Eh, I guess that's true. Hard to believe that was a full-on year ago though give or take.

 

[Calamitas]

Ike is a Gay ass mother ****** and we stan him.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

I want a patch that changes Ike's voice lines so that he shouts things like "Prepare yourself, I like men", or "I like men and you'll get no sympathy from me".

Based on what I know about him, yep.

But please enlighten me, what does ace mean in this case?

Short for asexual. Not sexually attracted to anyone.

That's...quite the surname.

Could also call him Dunban Xenobladechroniclesdefintiivedition, if you prefer.

 

[SharkLord]

Honestly, this kind of thing coming from Suda is what makes me think Travis is a when rather than an if.

Granted, it might not be in Ultimate, but I think he'll eventually make it.

As for the amount of DLC, I think the only things stopping Smash from becoming an "eternal evergreen" are budget and Sakurai & team preferring to be done with a Smash game and moving to other projects. I mean, we're in the middle of a wave of DLC that wasn't planned and is only a thing because of how well Base and Wave 1 sold, no?

Travis is only a matter of when Suda51 loses it and constructs his own Glastonbury and holds Sakurai hostage until Nintendo submits to his whims and finally adds Travis to Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Where did Joker and Samus come from?

Spoiler: Persona 5 Royal Spoilers

I heard Joker can date Akechi.

I don't know why I added Samus. It wasn't because of the comic, but I haven't seen Samus really attracted to men before. I am unsure.

Edit: I forgot to add Ike.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oh oh also there was a trans woman in PoR, but only in the Japanese version, she’s treated as male everywhere else

keep forgetting her name tho

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How is my list?

Canonically LGBTQ+:

Implied:

Depends:

Eh?

I dont think any of the Heroes are LGBTQ.

And... Joker only dates girls so I'd argue hes one of the confirmed straight characters.

 

[CannonStreak]

For clarity on CannonStreak . He believed that we did not invite the discussion of the LGBTQ+ community when we actually do. Our inclusivity policy is open to all of our users of the LGBTQ+ community and thus a lot of discussion revolving around their community is welcome. Hate speech surrounding that community is not allowed and that is what SonicSmasher was afraid of. Other places will outright ban discussion of sexual orientation to avoid the chance of this. That is not our goal here. Our goal is to have an open place for people of all orientation to be able to discuss that topic as long as it stays within the age rating associated with the website.

Discussion of sexual orientation is welcome and since this is the newcomer thread discussion of sexual orientation pertaining to the characters is fine. However, discussion in accordance to you or others individually should be taken to a more appropriate thread like The Social Thread.

Ike is a Gay ass mother ****** and we stan him.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

O RLY?

On that note, I ain't doubting that. But anyone wanna give me reasons why, if it doesn't hurt to ask?

 

[cashregister9]

How is my list?

Canonically LGBTQ+:

Implied:

Depends:

I think you can add Isabelle to the Implied category because in New Leaf it is implied that Isabelle has a crush on your character regardless of gender.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Spoiler: Persona 5 Royal Spoilers

I heard Joker can date Akechi.

I don't know why I added Samus. It wasn't because of the comic, but I haven't seen Samus really attracted to men before. I am unsure.

Edit: I forgot to add Ike.

For what it's worth, writing in Fusion/Other M sorta supports it, but it's mostly to reinforce how Samus's feelings for Adam were entirely platonic.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I would argue the majority of the human Smash roster is not white.

I’ll give you Joker and Ryu, as they obviously are Japanese, however I would still maintain that many characters still could pass as Caucasian, be it art style or otherwise. That said, Marth and Roy previously speaking Japanese suggests they are of a Japanese-equivalent origin in their home games as well.

When looking at characters of color outside of Asian background, it would appear it’s a somewhat difficult commodity to ascertain in terms of “gaming character that is not only non-white or non-Japanese, but is a protagonist/mascot”.

In terms of what we might consider “eligible” for Smash, it’s rather difficult unfortunately.

 

[CannonStreak]

I want a patch that changes Ike's voice lines so that he shouts things like "Prepare yourself, I like men", or "I like men and you'll get no sympathy from me".



Short for asexual. Not sexually attracted to anyone.



Could also call him Dunban Xenobladechroniclesdefintiivedition, if you prefer.

Not a bad nickname, if I do say so, myself.

 

[Will]

I don't know why I added Samus. It wasn't because of the comic, but I haven't seen Samus really attracted to men before. I am unsure.

I mean I'd just put her down with the majority of the cast in "We don't ****ing know" category. Same for Ike personally but believe what you wanna believe.

 

[Monue]

I still maintain that's Dunban over there Xenobladechronicles is ace. He's only a Final Smash assist and a Mii costume, but eh, he's still cool.

I haven't played the games unfortunately! I'm interested, I'd love to see how his characterization leads you to feel that way! Ace characters have it hard - if they're not SCREAMING that they're ace, people just won't believe it. It's similar for other LGBTQ+ characters, but it's always stood out to me more with ace characters because people will incorrectly assume if they're not interested in the opposite sex then they're interested in the same sex.

I like Dunban's design though, and I'm interested in the series. I'll have to check it out.

 

[cosmicB]

Enlighten me on your Game Theory.

In what way? I would say the Mario cast, Ken (who is half Japanese), the Belmonts and Terry are the only unambiguous white human characters. Everyone else is explicitly Asian (Pokemon Trainer, Joker, Corrin, Min Min), or Japanese-coded Mukokuseki (Fire Emblem characters, etc)

 

[Deleted member]

Eh?

I dont think any of the Heroes are LGBTQ.

And... Joker only dates girls so I'd argue hes one of the confirmed straight characters.

Spoiler: Persona 5 Royal Spoilers

I heard Joker can date Akechi.

Could be wrong, I haven't played P5R.