Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Blankiturayman]

I'd say what's key with characters that already are in the game in some form, and whether or not they could become fighters, is timing. If say, a character was made into a spirit/costume/something after FP2 was decided (at most around Terry's announcement, I reckon) then yeah, they probably aren't getting in because it'd make no sense to decide to make them both a spirit/costume and a fighter. On the other hand, if this character was made that before FP2 was decided upon, then there's the chance they could've gone back to the character in case there was an interest, be it for a new development, or maybe simply because the priorities weren't there for them in FP1. Of course, they can't make the entire FP2 from just content that's already in the game, gotta have new things as well, so I'm not saying it'll be all that; just that there's a chance for around 1 or 2 more "promoted" things. Well, that's how I see it, at least.

I also agree with the comments that being right or wrong doesn't really matter. I just go with what I think could happen, and if it doesn't? then oh well, no problem really.

 

[SKX31]

Being fair, we wouldn't have had Zelda talk if it wasn't for that Hyrule Warriors reveal.

This shows just how much tunnel vision a lot of speculators have, thinking the only way a first-party character can happen is if they have a game coming soon... despite Min Min being from a 2017 game and added to Smash in 2020.

Yeah, it doesn't help that Nintendo's kind of wonky when it comes to supporting a game over the long term. This does risk sounding like a broken record (I've talked about the period of time when Nintendo went completely crickets re: ARMS quite a few times) but it worth keeping in mind when Nintendo's been more consistent with the more obviously-successful Splatoon.

Had Nintendo continued to tout ARMS tournaments and balance patches between 2018 and the March 2020 announcement the game would've likely been on more peoples' radar.

That said, I'm coming from the "Valve, Riot and Rockstar have shown how to keep games going for the long term" angle, so that's why I personally think Nintendo's radio silence for 2 years was... odd to say the least.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On the other hand, if this character was made that before FP2 was decided upon, then there's the chance they could've gone back to the character in case there was an interest, be it for a new development, or maybe simply because the priorities weren't there for them in FP1. Of course, they can't make the entire FP2 from just content that's already in the game, gotta have new things as well, so I'm not saying it'll be all that; just that there's a chance for around 1 or 2 more "promoted" things. Well, that's how I see it, at least.

Hmm...Do you think we might get a Mii Costume upgrade because the costume itself sold really well?

 

[Trevenant]

Was scrolling through Twitter and I found this:View attachment 285075
The definition of “fan rule” here seems to suggest that those who come up with “rules” are actively trying to make it so that people “can’t want their most wanted”.

At least from my point of view, it seems like an overly sensitive reading of the situation. If I roll up with an opinion, based on something, where I say, “I believe we will not get Shovel Knight or Waluigi because I do not believe we’ll get Assist Trophy upgrades for these reasons”, is that me “not letting someone want who they want” or just making an argument as to why I don’t necessarily think it’s likely?

Granted, Twitter is a social hellscape so that’s probably part of it too lol. But it seems as though “fan rule” is partially a defense mechanism for fans. Eh, can’t say I blame anybody, especially if dudes just show up and call your most wanted pick trash and start speaking in absolutes.

Otherwise it’s just speculation.

EDIT: To be clear, I’ve come to the realization that “fan rule” here probably refers to stupid things like “too obscure”, “too sexy” or “too big”. Yes, those are stupid rules. But to make a case as to why something may or may not be is not a fan rule. It’s speculation.

I think I know who the guy is. The guy literally does a ton of annoying things on Twitter. If someone says that they simply WANT a character he literally just replies with a silly reason to try and shoot them down.

There was even a tweet back in May that was made about him and it got 10k likes and retweets filled with screencaps of him doing it. It isn't limited to Smash either as once someone made a mock up of a Windows UI and he says 'it can't be realas it's already known what it is' or at least along those lines. Long story short if you say you believe anyone but Rayman, Shantae, Geno, Crash and Lloyd Irving has a shot or even want them, he will be on your back till you block him. He probably spends hours a day doing it. I'm 90% sure it's a troll account as he was recently banned and made a new account for what I assume was because he was not complying with Bidoofs Law.

To sum it up, I'm fairly certain it's just people getting hasty with them due to how constant it is and how cookie cutter his reasons are as it's blatantly obvious they just try to find a reason to shoot anything down. All of the stuff he says is pretty much lies as it all doesn't gel with how he should act on Twitter if he was telling the truth. I have had a few run ins with him on Twitter to say the least and he's really obnoxious. He's like a mosquito but on steroids so that it's able to go to several places at once and still be as trollish.

Im sure that's why they are playing the card because of him but what I think of it is fanrules are best used as a guideline to speculation. Yes they can be broken but playing the fanrule card is literally just going against speculation as it just means you don't have to predict stuff and such when that's kind of speculation in a nutshell. If you are discussing how cool a character would be and someone like he who shall not be named comes and starts treating it at speculation when it isn't, then that's when the fanrule card can be played. But even then it's more beneficial to just ignore them or block and report.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

speaking of twitter accounts not posting, the Layton twitter haven't posted anything is 13 days. I think Layton went missing again

 

[Blankiturayman]

Hmm...Do you think we might get a Mii Costume upgrade because the costume itself sold really well?

It could happen, since if it was well-received, then they'd have a bigger interest in making it a fighter proper. Although like I mentioned in the post above it'd have to do with when the costume was made.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You know, I think Impa is actually pretty likely now. I'm pretty certain, as in 99% certain, that she's a key character in Hyrule Warriors 2, and her design there might carry over to BotW2. She's a strong first party contender for a franchise that gets major attention by Nintendo, but not so much in Smash, which has been a major complaint so far, and Zelda's anniversary is next year.

I'm getting confident for one of my favourite characters again, and it feels good bro

 

[Captain Fun]

People call innocent speculation “fan rules” so they can conveniently group them with old, disproven theories. You saw it a lot with the “spirits deconfirm” thing. It usually goes like:

1. Argument gets oversimplified and deliberately misrepresented.
2. Is branded a “fan rule” so it can join the ranks of theories like “no 2 third parties from the same company.”
3. If it’s disproven or becomes outdated, detractors of the theory cry victory and openly mock anyone who believed it, all while acting like they were being oppressed by the people in the community who were instating “fan rules.”

Smash fans get so defensive. Remember when “box theory” was a thing? Detractors would act like you were trying to shut down discussion just by talking about it, when in reality, they were just upset because they didn’t like that possible outcome.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Bidoofs Law.

I must know what this is!

It could happen, since if it was well-received, then they'd have a bigger interest in making it a fighter proper. Although like I mentioned in the post above it'd have to do with when the costume was made.

Oh I know that, it's just an interesting angle I haven't heard yet. Though the first Mii Costume to fit this description is probably Sans, which would make it null and void.

 

[Deleted member]

I am going to say it, but people need to learn this:

Smash Bros. is a party and fighting video game. Smash is made for fighting with characters, not for speculating.

I am not saying you cannot speculate, speculation can be good. But some people go WAY too far...

I legit see people harassing others over characters.

If you cry and harass others because Byleth got in or some other reason based on Smash, then you need help.

There are games where you can spend a lot of time in, like Animal Crossing. That is okay. Hell, I sometimes spend two hundred hours from two weeks in Terraria. However, Smash speculation is a different. Speculation is just making theories and points based on characters revealed.

My lesson is to not base your life on Smash Speculation, that is all.

 

[Calamitas]

Nintendo hasn’t tweeted yet today...

Idk about NoA, but NoE has already made multiple tweets today already. Most recent one was just a few minutes ago, asking people how old they were when Mario 64 first released.

I must know what this is!

. . .Oh god, I never thought I'd see the phrase "Bidoof's law" uttered here of all places. Well, basically it says that more often than not when you see some person with a very obnoxious attitude making a fool of themselves, checking their profile reveals that they are unashamedly into hentai, porn, or have some pretty out there fetishes. The name comes from a tumblr user going by the url of "Bidoof", who made a post that basically said just that. Ironically, they themselves also turned out to be into some weird stuff, I think.

 

[Deleted member]

You know what would be a pretty cool, old-school 3rd party character? Edward Falcon. He was considered the main character of Power Stone. Everybody used to freakin' LOVE Power Stone so it would probably have a lot of nostalgic fans.

 

[cashregister9]

I must know what this is!

Here it is on Urban Dictionary I don't know if I can type some of these words without getting censored so be aware of that

 

[Trevenant]

I must know what this is!


Oh I know that, it's just an interesting angle I haven't heard yet. Though the first Mii Costume to fit this description is probably Sans, which would make it null and void.

Would probably be reported if I actually said but it basically sums up the user in a nutshell. They do what that user I just described were doing and then you look at the retweets and replies etc.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know what would be a pretty cool, old-school 3rd party character? Edward Falcon. He was considered the main character of Power Stone. Everybody used to freakin' LOVE Power Stone so it would probably have a lot of nostalgic fans.

Sadly, since he can't get into Capcom's crossovers (Capcom please), I don't think he has a shot going into this one.

Profound Sadness

Here it is on Urban Dictionary I don't know if I can type some of these words without getting kicked off of the planet so be aware of that

Would probably be reported if I actually said but it basically sums up the user in a nutshell. They do what that user I just described were doing and then you look at the retweets and replies etc.

Expectation: Something really gross.
Reality: "Problematic guy likes nsfw stuff"

This was probably the tamest Urban Dictionary entry I've seen.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

People call innocent speculation “fan rules” so they can conveniently group them with old, disproven theories. You saw it a lot with the “spirits deconfirm” thing a lot. It usually goes like:

1. Argument gets oversimplified and deliberately misrepresented.
2. Is branded a “fan rule” so it can join the ranks of theories like “no 2 third parties from the same company.”
3. If it’s disproven or becomes outdated, detractors of the theory cry victory and openly mock anyone who believed it, all while acting like they were being oppressed by the people in the community who were instating “fan rules.”

Smash fans get so defensive. Remember when “box theory” was a thing? Detractors would act like you were trying to shut down discussion just by talking about it, when in reality, they were just upset because they didn’t like that possible outcome.

Yeah its deliberate and an attempt to rouse support.

That kind of behavior ultimately shows a lack of confidence.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Another weird tactic I’ve seen is the idea that, since Duck Hunt Dog is old, that being old isn’t an issue at all, or because Min-Min isn’t the protag, it isn’t an issue at all to not be. Usually used in tandem with other outliers so that every character can seem to be super likely.

Here’s an example.

Perry the Parasol is unlikely? Why?
A one-off? Dark Pit, Sheik, Min-Min say hi!
No moveset potential? Piranha Plant, R.O.B, Fox are right there?
Not important in its series? Have you missed Jigglypuff being in?

Like, honestly, there’s not a single argument against Perry the Parasol that doesn’t crumble under my Logic

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Another weird tactic I’ve seen is the idea that, since Duck Hunt Dog is old, that being old isn’t an issue at all, or because Min-Min isn’t the protag, it isn’t an issue at all to not be. Usually used in tandem with other outliers so that every character can seem to be super likely.

Here’s an example.

Perry the Parasol is unlikely? Why?
A one-off? Dark Pit, Sheik, Min-Min say hi!
No moveset potential? Piranha Plant, R.O.B, Fox are right there?
Not important in its series? Have you missed Jigglypuff being in?

Like, honestly, there’s not a single argument against Perry the Parasol that doesn’t crumble under my Logic

People can easily twist things to make it sound like any video game character has a shot though, regardless of rules.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah its deliberate and an attempt to rouse support.

That kind of behavior ultimately shows a lack of confidence.

How dare you say that I bet you secretly hate my most wanted and burn copies of their game in your free time because you KNOW my most wanted's a lock! Join my False Unity Thread if you believe otherwise

 

[WeirdChillFever]

You can easily twist things to make it sound like any video game character as a shot though.

Ugh, another fan-rule worshipper, come back when you have a proper argument against Perry the Parasol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Idk about NoA, but NoE has already made multiple tweets today already. Most recent one was just a few minutes ago, asking people how old they were when Mario 64 first released.

I didn't exist.

Here’s an example.

Perry the Parasol is unlikely? Why?
A one-off? Dark Pit, Sheik, Min-Min say hi!
No moveset potential? Piranha Plant, R.O.B, Fox are right there?
Not important in its series? Have you missed Jigglypuff being in?

Like, honestly, there’s not a single argument against Perry the Parasol that doesn’t crumble under my Logic

Counter this! Perry is unlikely because there's not only the fact that nobody care about him, but also the fact that a lot of people find Super Princess Peach sexist and I don't think Ninendo would want to touch a game who's McGuffin is very much implied to be an nsfw toy with a 10 foot pole.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How dare you say that I bet you secretly hate my most wanted and burn copies of their game in your free time because you KNOW my most wanted's a lock! Join my False Unity Thread if you believe otherwise

This strawman stuff kinda feeds that behavior.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Counter this! Perry is unlikely because there's not only the fact that nobody care about him, but also the fact that a lot of people find Super Princess Peach sexist and I don't think Ninendo would want to touch a game who's McGuffin is very much implied to be an nsfw toy with a 10 foot pole.

Fire Emblem frequently dabbles into sexual assault and incest

This strawman stuff kinda feeds that behavior.

I felt like it was obvious comedy but yeah the last part does feel like that now that I look back on it. Whoops

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I didn't exist.


Counter this! Perry is unlikely because there's not only the fact that nobody care about him, but also the fact that a lot of people find Super Princess Peach sexist and I don't think Ninendo would want to touch a game who's McGuffin is very much implied to be an nsfw toy with a 10 foot pole.

Agh, my logic has been foiled by the Good Boys and Girls, which states that each adult theme is the exact same and thus unfeasible!

Though Bayonetta is in so.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I also feel as though there’s been much more of an “us vs them” nature of speculation lately. Like, pouncing on users if they’re “wrong” about something relating to a character addition, and trying harder to be “correct” than to enjoy playing/talking about Smash.

I find that the people who often mock others for being wrong don't ever put their own necks on the line, at least on here. Not that it's okay to mock others even if you're right, but it's pretty pathetic to basically not partake in speculation until you can pounce on someone thanks to the power of hindsight.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fire Emblem frequently dabbles into sexual assault and incest

Fire Emblem is also very much not like Super Mario. I don't think such adult themes would fly in the series in this day and age.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Fire Emblem is also very much not like Super Mario. I don't think such adult themes would fly in the series in this day and age.

Haha I bet you never saw children cartoons, both from the 90's and ones from these days.
Though Nintendo doesn't mind rereleasing SMRPG, which implies that Peach has a sex toy in her room

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Agh, my logic has been foiled by the Good Boys and Girls, which states that each adult theme is the exact same and thus unfeasible!

Though Bayonetta is in so.

Ah but you forget: Bayonetta doesn't count for some reason!

Why?

Because it's good for my argument!

Haha I bet you never saw children cartoons, both from the 90's and ones from these days.
Though Nintendo doesn't mind rereleasing SMRPG, which implies that Peach has a sex toy in her room

OK, this conversation has already given me some very cursed knowledge involving Bowser so let's just agree to drop the subject before it gets even more cursed.

 

[chocolatejr9]

You know what would be a pretty cool, old-school 3rd party character? Edward Falcon. He was considered the main character of Power Stone. Everybody used to freakin' LOVE Power Stone so it would probably have a lot of nostalgic fans.

Don't worry, he'll get added eventually...

To Street Fighter. ba dum tsh

Haha I bet you never saw children cartoons, both from the 90's and ones from these days.
Though Nintendo doesn't mind rereleasing SMRPG, which implies that Peach has a sex toy in her room

So THAT'S why Geno can't get in...

 

[Deleted member]

Though Nintendo doesn't mind rereleasing SMRPG, which implies that Peach has a sex toy in her room

I thought it was something else horny, but I get it now.

If they were to make a SMRPG remake, do you think they would include that joke?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Don't worry, he'll get added eventually...

To Street Fighter. ba dum tsh

Honestly, if he were the unrevealed Street Fighter V character the internet would likely explode (in a good way).

I thought it was something else horny, but I get it now.

If they were to make a SMRPG remake, do you think they would include that joke?

Certainly not. They seem to be OK with rereleasing stuff, but when they remake them, they make changes to what they don't like (apparently, this can be seen in the Mario & Luigi remakes). They're pretty odd that way.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Don't worry, he'll get added eventually...

To Street Fighter. ba dum tsh

That would still be really dope.

Getting both Rival Schools and Power Stone in Season V? That just sounds incredible.

 

[SharkLord]

With all the talk about fanrules, I would like to reiterate: Your gut is your most reliable source. The brain tries to make a thousand different reasonings based on fact and tends to make oversights, then awkwardly scrambles to patch itself together when it fails. The gut, on the other hand, just decides "I believe X" and runs off into the approaching storm, screaming "LEEEROY JEEENKINS!" at the top of their lungs. Not as logical, but it's heck of a lot more fun.

Haha I bet you never saw children cartoons, both from the 90's and ones from these days.
Though Nintendo doesn't mind rereleasing SMRPG, which implies that Peach has a sex toy in her room

WHAT THE ACTUAL SH-
AHJJJH<AHGULGSYGYFYFVWB
Snjbhd,jsahdkisol
wWHYYY
WHY MUST YOU GIVE SUCH CURSED KNOWLEDGE
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

With all the talk about fanrules, I would like to reiterate: Your gut is your most reliable source. The brain tries to make a thousand different reasonings based on fact and tends to make oversights, then awkwardly scrambles to patch itself together when it fails. The gut, on the other hand, just decides "I believe X" and runs off into the approaching storm, screaming "LEEEROY JEEENKINS!" at the top of their lungs. Not as logical, but it's heck of a lot more fun.

We need more of that here.

It's certainly better than waiting every Tuesday for us to get nothing Smash-related, then just talk about the same stuff over and over and over again.

 

[Deleted member]

My gut says Phoenix Wright is the next character, but we will see.

Also when Mario found Peach's XXX, the level went from normal to hard.

 

[Schnee117]

We need more of that here.

It's certainly better than waiting every Tuesday for us to get nothing Smash-related, then just talk about the same stuff over and over and over again.

Or posting every single twitter rando that pops up.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Haha I bet you never saw children cartoons, both from the 90's and ones from these days.
Though Nintendo doesn't mind rereleasing SMRPG, which implies that Peach has a sex toy in her room

So this is why Sticker Star is Nintendo's new baseline for any remotely interesting Mario content.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Or posting every single twitter rando that pops up.

Yep.

Would be nice to just randomly speak about how some characters could work, regardless of chances.

 

[SKX31]

I thought it was something else horny, but I get it now.

If they were to make a SMRPG remake, do you think they would include that joke?

Nope. Nintendo in general is very adamant about keeping Mario family friendly. This can be indirectly seen by the official Pokemon twitter's reaction to #pokemonmastersex, which was basically this:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The sex joke would either A) Be completely missed at first, and then when people start talking about it on twitter Nintendo would likely be adamant about it before removed in a patch, or B) Removed at the get go.

Certainly not. They seem to be OK with rereleasing stuff, but when they remake them, they make changes to what they don't like (apparently, this can be seen in the Mario & Luigi remakes). They're pretty odd that way.

What did they change in the M&L remakes if I may ask?

Anyhow, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo's general way of patching out stuff is probably with the casual player and / or kids in mind. To use the BLJ as an example - it's an amazing speedrunning trick, but one needs to be incredibly precise with it to get the results one wants. Otherwise it can send you careening into a deathtrap / get you stuck in a PU if you build up too much speed or go in a wrong direction. Also worth noting: it was patched out in 97's Shindou edition, long before speedrunning became as big of a factor as it is today.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

With all the talk about fanrules, I would like to reiterate: Your gut is your most reliable source. The brain tries to make a thousand different reasonings based on fact and tends to make oversights, then awkwardly scrambles to patch itself together when it fails. The gut, on the other hand, just decides "I believe X" and runs off into the approaching storm, screaming "LEEEROY JEEENKINS!" at the top of their lungs. Not as logical, but it's heck of a lot more fun.

WHAT THE ACTUAL SH-
AHJJJH<AHGULGSYGYFYFVWB
Snjbhd,jsahdkisol
wWHYYY
WHY MUST YOU GIVE SUCH CURSED KNOWLEDGE
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

When you kidnapped as much as Peach does it would only make sense to have a stress reliever on hand.