Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Hokori]

Hyrule Warriors...Age of Calamity...oh my

 

[GoodGrief741]

No it doesn't hurt chances but Ryu Hayabusa seems like the kind of character Nintendo could've acquired for Smash at literally any point since Brawl were they so inclined.

Then again, so is Simon Belmont, still took until now to get him.

 

[Will]

Woah woah woah, what's with the Dark Pit hate? I don't see people ****ting on Daisy or Dark Samus over here.

I hate Dark Pit just for being an echo fighter. If he had some actual differences like dealing more damage but also being easier to KO, I'd respect him.

I mean, you're halfway there to already getting Dark Pit.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I hate Dark Pit just for being an echo fighter. If he had some actual differences like dealing more damage but also being easier to KO, I'd respect him.

Wait, do you hate all Echo Fighters or just Echo Fighters with no consequential changes like Daisy?

I personally wish his primary weapon was the Staff. It would require some animation and move changes, but I think they could make it work.

It took me two whole years to find any actual physical differences between Pit and Dark Pit.
Dark Pit doesn't have halos around his arm. That's it.

Dark Pit's arrow is faster and more spammable, but not as controllable, and his Electroshock Arm K.O.s horizontally rather than vertically. This makes Dark Pit ever so slightly better than Pit in a few situations, but you could probably do fine playing them both the same way.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'll have to wait and see how large Impa's role in the game will be.

For now, I don't think her chances of getting in Ultimate suddenly skyrocketed. Seems like the game revolves around the same characters BotW focused on, which is Link, Zelda, and the Champions. Then there's also the fact that BotW2 will be a sequel, so any appearances from young Impa will be limited to flashbacks. She'd still be old like she was in the first BotW.

 

[Ivander]

Oh cool, more Hyrule Warriors. BoTW-specific kinda limits the roster though.

L'Oreal Ganon is the best Ganon unironically, it's a shame he probably won't show up.

View attachment 284999

I guess it really depends on what Nintendo wants. In Breath of the Wild and what was detailed about him in the Calamity, Ganon was akin to a force of nature similarly to Godzilla. We have no idea if Ganon ever appeared as Ganondorf 100 years ago, but what details we have seem to imply he didn't. But Ganondorf is supposedly going to be in his human form in Breath of the Wild 2. Like it really depends on whether or not Nintendo wants to give a preview of his human form to hype people up for Breath of the Wild 2. Like we could get a glimpse or showing of Ganondorf, but we may not as well.

 

[SharkLord]

No it doesn't hurt chances but Ryu Hayabusa seems like the kind of character Nintendo could've acquired for Smash at literally any point since Brawl were they so inclined.

I mean, it took until now to get Castlevania and Dragon Quest in Smash. I don't think Nintendo has a list of characters to add to Smash and specific expiration dates, they just add them as they come.

 

[Will]

Seems like the game revolves around the same characters BotW focused on, which is Link, Zelda, and the Champions. Then there's also the fact that BotW2 will be a sequel, so any appearances from young Impa will be limited to flashbacks. She'd still be old like she was in the first BotW.

I mean it's an easy way to get designs for characters like Impa and Purah at an adult stage.

There's also this dude.

Make him a ****ing character, go nuts

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Pullin' out HW Ganondorf' to remind everyone of potential movesets another Ganon/Ganondorf could have if they decide to use him of all people for some reason for FP7.
Dual Sword fighter, polearm/spear guy, literal Stand user.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Now that Zelda has 3 games that take place on the BotW contuity, i have to wonder............is there more on the way? Could this be the Defacto Zelda universe now? BoTW always felt like a Reboot in all places (gameplay, lore, and it basically said **** you to the timeline in all places), but now im starting to think maybe this is Legend of Zelda now, as if the success of BotW has made them have this game's universe as the core focus for the foreseeable future, and if the sequel is succesful, it probably could last even longer.

Well hot damn I never would've expected another Hyrule Warriors game to be announced, but here we are.

I thought I'd post this here cause it seems interesting to note on that 9/26 date:

Found this not at Nintendo's reveal trailer but at KT's trailer
The next info for Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity will be revealed on 26 Septemberhttps://t.co/9C1GiRtFWW

That's the same day KT has an unknown title at TGS; we just wait for them to update https://t.co/vm35kWJcYV pic.twitter.com/dvzlcnwQNn

— 黒凧 BlackKite (@bk2128) September 8, 2020

Anyways, with Age of Calamity being announced today, it's really surprising how much Koei-Tecmo has going for itself right now. They've had partnerships with Nintendo for almost a decade now, and as for their franchises currently, you got Atelier Ryza being the best selling game in the series and a sequel coming soon, Dynasty Warriors' 20th Anniversary being this year with 2 games being announced in the coming weeks, and the modern Ninja Gaiden trilogy being rumored for PS4 and Switch (though I have my doubts if it's actually coming or not). Pretty much any of these 3 franchises could potentially end up getting a Challenger Pack in Vol 2, and they all have their own separate merits behind them.

UNBREAKABLE DETERMINATION INTENSIFIES

 

[I.D.]

I mean it's an easy way to get designs for characters like Impa and Purah at an adult stage.

There's also this dude.

View attachment 285005

Make him a ****ing character, go nuts

That's just Dhalsim with a hat

 

[SharkLord]

Now that Zelda has 3 games that take place on the BotW contuity, i have to wonder............is there more on the way? Could this be the Defacto Zelda universe now? BoTW always felt like a Reboot in all places (gameplay, lore, and it basically said **** you to the timeline in all places), but now im starting to think maybe this is Legend of Zelda now, as if the success of BotW has made them have this game's universe as the core focus for the foreseeable future, and if the sequel is succesful, it probably could last even longer.


UNBREAKABLE DETERMINATION INTENSIFIES

One idea I saw once was that Hyrule Warriors is actually canon and is responsible for a sort of timeline merge that led to Breath of the Wild. Maybe AoC will acknowledge it, maybe it won't. But yeah, BotW looks to be the new Zelda for the time being.

 

[Will]

That's just Dhalsim with a hat

And?

 

[N3ON]

For once, I agree with the cynic.

Optimism is for children, inebriates and holidays.

Which is ironic because I am one of the few around here who seems to believe Nintendo did have a better 2020 lined up for us than the one we received.

Then again, so is Simon Belmont, still took until now to get him.

I'm not sure how amenable Konami would've been to cooperation around the time they initially attempted to get Snake back.

Of course, it is a bit different for Metal Gear. But Konami in general has sucked for a while now, so any further instances of them being the worst wouldn't have been that surprising.

I mean, it took until now to get Castlevania and Dragon Quest in Smash. I don't think Nintendo has a list of characters to add to Smash and specific expiration dates, they just add them as they come.

I'm not sure what you're inferring from my post but my point is that KT was probably amenable to lending Ryu to Smash since third-parties became a thing. The current working relationship between the companies is nice but I don't believe it changes anything.

 

[Will]

Optimism is for children.

****, guess I'm baby.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Well hot damn I never would've expected another Hyrule Warriors game to be announced, but here we are.

I thought I'd post this here cause it seems interesting to note on that 9/26 date:

Found this not at Nintendo's reveal trailer but at KT's trailer
The next info for Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity will be revealed on 26 Septemberhttps://t.co/9C1GiRtFWW

That's the same day KT has an unknown title at TGS; we just wait for them to update https://t.co/vm35kWJcYV pic.twitter.com/dvzlcnwQNn

— 黒凧 BlackKite (@bk2128) September 8, 2020

Anyways, with Age of Calamity being announced today, it's really surprising how much Koei-Tecmo has going for itself right now. They've had partnerships with Nintendo for almost a decade now, and as for their franchises currently, you got Atelier Ryza being the best selling game in the series and a sequel coming soon, Dynasty Warriors' 20th Anniversary being this year with 2 games being announced in the coming weeks, and the modern Ninja Gaiden trilogy being rumored for PS4 and Switch (though I have my doubts if it's actually coming or not). Pretty much any of these 3 franchises could potentially end up getting a Challenger Pack in Vol 2, and they all have their own separate merits behind them.

This announcement is likely the Ninja Gaiden Trulogy then.

Which means Hayabusa is going to get announced at that same time. Source: Dude, trust me.

ITS HAPPENING!

For real though, even if Hayabusa doesn’t end up making it in, at the very least this is nothing but great news for the Ninja Gaiden series, my favorite character action franchise. Sorry Bayo and DMC.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Woah woah woah, what's with the Dark Pit hate? I don't see people ****ting on Daisy or Dark Samus over here.

All of the Echo Fighters have problems with their execution:

• would be fine if she didn't play nothing like Chrom.
• has no differences that anyone would care about.
  • What I would do is get rid of Toads from her moveset (which means a new Neutral Special), and give her an extra jump instead of a float.
• doesn't have enough differences.
  • I would make a more aggressive version of Pit.
• would be fine if he didn't play nothing like Lucina.
• is a semi-clone they labeled as an Echo Fighter for marketing purposes.
  • This defeats the purpose of the Echo Fighter though, and as such, can't really be considered an actual Echo Fighter.
• has no differences.
  • I would redesign Samus around her 2D games, and remove the new unique mechanics from Dark Pit that don't fit, and replace Morph Ball with something else.
• has no differences.
  • I would give Simon & Richter's attacks different properties depending on who used the move, and how the moves differ between games. For Example, I would have Righter's Holy Water last a shorter amount of time, but travel forward as it burns.

 

[N3ON]

****, guess I'm baby.

It's honestly news to me that you're optimistic lol

 

[SKX31]

Tbh, this is kinda why I find myself wanting more Spirit Events. Gives me more single-player stuff to do considering I don't have a Wifi adapter.

Shudders

I don't blame you at all. Leffen's called the online trash, and he's from the same city as I. Mentioning him since he's a pretty influential voice.

I don't want to imagine the online in a place where Nintendo didn't even officially support its products until (relatively) recently.

Yeah, that was eight whole months ago, how are people not over it? They need something else to focus their energy on.

So I welcome anyone who, instead, wants to join me in being mad that they included Dark Pit.

I mean, c'mon. **** that guy.

However, Dark Pit is the kind of guy who straight up doesn't give a **** and instead gives people the ELECTROSHOCK therapy.

It's pretty much his trademark,

Ooh I can't wait to play as Loading, Please Wait!

Jokes aside, any ideas on how a Civilization character would play?

I've been meaning to get to this question since Sunday, but I really struggled with it honestly. Loved Civilization IV myself, dabbled in Civilization VI.

Civilization is difficult to pin down precisely in a moveset - I honestly don't think the "advancement in time" mechanic that's integral to the Civilization series would work in Smash, where a character can die at 0 % from gimps. Civilization is also an intentionally slow game - it's one of the most prominent "just another turn / 5 minutes". However, one could instead go for the Spearman beats Tank direction - after all, Civilization as a series spans from the Neolithic / late Stone Age to Giant Death Robots. And the series' system rewards stacking endless amounts of bonuses in one's favor (leading to Spearman Beats Tank in certain scenarios). Would it be incredibly weird to see the same character rock axes and guns? Yes, but Smash is no stranger to really strange movesets.

In any case, the character would likely be something like Byleth - stragetically choosing positions and moves / attacks and controlling space. One idea is that the longer one controls a certain space, the more the character's "Sphere of Influence" grows. It's not exactly Sphere of Influence, but Civ players don't just go for the Conquest / Domination victories. Culture, Science and Diplomatic victories are also potent tools and victory conditions in Civ. And as such a Sphere of Influence makes some sense in that context.

As for the playable characters... really difficult to say. Worker units are the bland option... but they're neccessary for both the casual, veteran and the Deity Archipelago Always War Conquest speedrunner. The unit is also absurdly versatile, able to build roads, walls, improvements such as farms etc. So they could handle the weapons and moves in any hypotheoretical scenario. Hey, Villager cannot jump in AC... but here we are.

Other options include the playable leaders (monarchs and political leaders drawn from history)... but the series have made some questionable choices (several recent tyrants are playable in certain games, such as Stalin in Civ I and IV) and those are likely not ever going to be in Smash in any form. There are a lot of less controversial leaders in the games though, so those are candidates for playable and Spirits. I'm saying less controversial since while they're still debated, they're generally more in the background.

If I'd choose a playabe leader, it'd likely be Tokugawa Ieyasu (less notorious than Nobunaga - both of them are playable in different games), Elizabeth I or maybe Napoleon (as a metajoke to the Napoleon GBA game and the Napoleon hanafuda card, both of which Nintendo produced). All three of these are mainstays in the series. If one wanted to go truly meta, one could choose the Hawaiian / Polynesian leader Kamehameha (playable in Civ V).

Music shouldn't be a problem though. While Civilization mostly lacks frenetic pieces, the series doesn't lack amazing tracks. One iconic track in particular is Baba Yetu - it's the first video game track to be ever nominated for a Grammy Award. And win:

Sidenote: Gandhi is one of the most popular characters in the series due to an overflow error back in Civ II. His AI's Agression setting in the second game is the lowest possible (1 / 10) to simulate his historical pacifism. But if India survives to the Modern Era (-2 Agression due to a global decrease in agression to simulate less overt warfare...)

India's aggression overflows to 255 / 10 and he becomes NUCLEAR GANDHI. That bug became so notious that later games have Gandhi still be the most peaceful... but the one most likely to build Nukes. While I strongly doubt Nuclear Gandhi will ever make it in even as a Spirit it's still one of the most famous and popular aspects about the Civ series. The reasons I doubt that are that Sakurai's good friends with Hideo Kojima, who himself is strongly anti-nuclear weapons, and the historical Gandhi's venerated as a saint by a very large number of Indians.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I'd be excited for Impa or another Ganon! Would prefer Impa, though

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Wait, do you hate all Echo Fighters or just Echo Fighters with no consequential changes like Daisy?

I personally wish his primary weapon was the Staff. It would require some animation and move changes, but I think they could make it work.

The latter. I like Ken, despite being an echo fighter because his attacks do different things that make him interesting to play. He's not just basic version Ryu (Unlike Lucina and Chrom). It also proves that other echo fighters can have these kinds of changes.

Daisy could have used some custom specials from Smash 4 like Sleepy toad, flower bomber, Light parasol/parasol jump and Heavy/light veggies just to make her stand out from Peach. Maybe remove her ability to float and give her a third jump.

But yeah. If Echo fighters had like Melee clone levels of changes to their attacks, I wouldn't mind them so much.

 

[Will]

I'd be excited for Impa or another Ganon!

Please God not another Ganon

 

[3BitSaurus]

Shudders

I don't blame you at all. Leffen's called the online trash, and he's from the same city as I. Mentioning him since he's a pretty influential voice.

I don't want to imagine the online in a place where Nintendo didn't even officially support its products until (relatively) recently.

Let's see:

1. No official support from Nintendo between the Wii and now (particularly bad considering there are no dedicated servers)
2. Usual wifi connections are **** and unreliable over here unless you have a cable and/or pay lots of money. No, I'm not just talking the Switch.
3. Due to a few... circumstances, unless I actually move my whole setup, I can't use my GC controller reliably, being forced to play online with Joycons.

So yeah, at this point I've made peace with some of my wants being Spirited if it means I get more single player content until the end of Ultimate's life cycle.

 

[MooMew64]

That comment of mine above could have been worded a bit less affirmatively- I don’t mean to say that the new HW is absolutely leading to Hayabusa, just that it shows a sustained relationship with Koei Tecmo. It’s not that I think Hayabusa is some sort of shoe in character, but moreso that if there’s anything to it, it would probably be him.
-
In the meantime, anybody have any gut feelings about who the next character reveal will be? I find it difficult to make the call myself, but that’s largely because we don’t have much to go on.

My guess is: a video game character that brings an interesting moveset. dabs

No, but really. I feel as though it may be a non-Nintendo Fighter, but even that’s hard to say!

My gut says maybe Dante or a Bravely rep.

I just think both are likely candidates and would make sense with timing. Knowing my track record, I'm probably way off and it's Travis or something.

 

[Calamitas]

In the meantime, anybody have any gut feelings about who the next character reveal will be? I find it difficult to make the call myself, but that’s largely because we don’t have much to go on.

My guess is: a video game character that brings an interesting moveset. dabs

No, but really. I feel as though it may be a non-Nintendo Fighter, but even that’s hard to say!

Funny that - I'm leaning more towards a first-party character myself. And I want to say that it might be finally the time for my most wanted. . . but that's really just wishful thinking, I guess.

 

[Shroob]

I'm still not convinced anything's coming.

Call me a grumpy pessimist but I've just got a bad feeling about this month.

 

[SharkLord]

That comment of mine above could have been worded a bit less affirmatively- I don’t mean to say that the new HW is absolutely leading to Hayabusa, just that it shows a sustained relationship with Koei Tecmo. It’s not that I think Hayabusa is some sort of shoe in character, but moreso that if there’s anything to it, it would probably be him.
-
In the meantime, anybody have any gut feelings about who the next character reveal will be? I find it difficult to make the call myself, but that’s largely because we don’t have much to go on.

My guess is: a video game character that brings an interesting moveset. dabs

No, but really. I feel as though it may be a non-Nintendo Fighter, but even that’s hard to say!

It'll be Ryza, except instead of crafting items she uses alchemy to create homunculi in the form of Koei-Tecmo icons. The animation goes on for an obnoxiously long time and she has super armor the whole way through, meaning you have to wait for fifteen minutes for Ryu Hayabusa to slowly rise out of the pot while T-posing only to just anticlimactically shoot you in the face with a gun that he was never shown using before in any of his past appearances.

Fun.

In the meantime, here's a little game we can play: Come up with a moveset concept for a character that would have an unorthodox playstyle of unique gimmick thanks to their home series. Choose a character and have fun.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That comment of mine above could have been worded a bit less affirmatively- I don’t mean to say that the new HW is absolutely leading to Hayabusa, just that it shows a sustained relationship with Koei Tecmo. It’s not that I think Hayabusa is some sort of shoe in character, but moreso that if there’s anything to it, it would probably be him.
-
In the meantime, anybody have any gut feelings about who the next character reveal will be? I find it difficult to make the call myself, but that’s largely because we don’t have much to go on.

My guess is: a video game character that brings an interesting moveset. dabs

No, but really. I feel as though it may be a non-Nintendo Fighter, but even that’s hard to say!

At this point I couldn't tell you.

If I had to throw in a few guesses though.

BotW character, Gen 8 Pokemon, Geno, Crash, Travis Touchdown, Dante, Arle Nadja, 2B or Ryu hayabusa would be among my guesses.

 

[DarthEnderX]

(plus Hyrule Warriors was hella good)

I mean, it's not, cause it's still a Musou game. But it's about as good as Musou games get.

Hyrule Warriors Impa isn't owned by Nintendo.

Because...only characters owned by Nintendo can get into Smash? What?

Age of Calamity Impa is currently the only one with a shot.

As long as she has the naginata, I'm down.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

One idea I saw once was that Hyrule Warriors is actually canon and is responsible for a sort of timeline merge that led to Breath of the Wild. Maybe AoC will acknowledge it, maybe it won't. But yeah, BotW looks to be the new Zelda for the time being.

Honestly Hyrule warriors being part of the late timeline with Breath of the wild was always kinda my headcanon, since all other games took place before it.

Maybe it just takes place before the past games faded to myth.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I'd be excited for Impa or another Ganon! Would prefer Impa, though

If they were to go with another Ganon, I'd rather it not be another Gerudo iteration. We'd be cooking with gas if they decided to go with the beast forms, ideally one that looks, acts, and fights remotely nothing like Ganondorf.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm still not convinced anything's coming.

Call me a grumpy pessimist but I've just got a bad feeling about this month.

At least you have more optimism compared to me. I dread we'll have to wait until next year due to covid shaking the schedule up.

 

[Cosmic77]

My gut prediction is that the next character will be someone this thread never saw coming, for better or worse.

That's the only trend that seems to be consistent.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean, it's not, cause it's still a Musou game. But it's about as good as Musou games get.

You could just let people enjoy things man...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

While I strongly doubt Nuclear Gandhi will ever make it in even as a Spirit it's still one of the most famous and popular aspects about the Civ series. The reasons I doubt that are that Sakurai's good friends with Hideo Kojima, who himself is strongly anti-nuclear weapons, and the historical Gandhi's venerated as a saint by a very large number of Indians.

You might be able to get away with a passive opponent with Bob-Omb Rain for the Spirit Battle, and then have the effect be 1, something that references Ghandi's playstyle, and 2, all stats-up at 100%.

I mean, it's not, cause it's still a Musou game.

I mean, it does have a bit of a problem with informational conveyance (so much happens in later levels and the warnings they use just can't keep up), but it's still a pretty good game.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I really wish Etika was still around to see the new DLC characters, he would've loved Min Min. To me at least, Etika was a big part of Smash culture, and instead of tuning into a Nintendo Direct, I would tune into his streams to watch the Direct alongside him.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Civilization is difficult to pin down precisely in a moveset - I honestly don't think the "advancement in time" mechanic that's integral to the Civilization series would work in Smash, where a character can die at 0 % from gimps. Civilization is also an intentionally slow game - it's one of the most prominent "just another turn / 5 minutes". However, one could instead go for the Spearman beats Tank direction - after all, Civilization as a series spans from the Neolithic / late Stone Age to Giant Death Robots. And the series' system rewards stacking endless amounts of bonuses in one's favor (leading to Spearman Beats Tank in certain scenarios). Would it be incredibly weird to see the same character rock axes and guns? Yes, but Smash is no stranger to really strange movesets.

In any case, the character would likely be something like Byleth - stragetically choosing positions and moves / attacks and controlling space. One idea is that the longer one controls a certain space, the more the character's "Sphere of Influence" grows. It's not exactly Sphere of Influence, but Civ players don't just go for the Conquest / Domination victories. Culture, Science and Diplomatic victories are also potent tools and victory conditions in Civ. And as such a Sphere of Influence makes some sense in that context.

As for the playable characters... really difficult to say. Worker units are the bland option... but they're neccessary for both the casual, veteran and the Deity Archipelago Always War Conquest speedrunner. The unit is also absurdly versatile, able to build roads, walls, improvements such as farms etc. So they could handle the weapons and moves in any hypotheoretical scenario. Hey, Villager cannot jump in AC... but here we are.

Other options include the playable leaders (monarchs and political leaders drawn from history)... but the series have made some questionable choices (several recent tyrants are playable in certain games, such as Stalin in Civ I and IV) and those are likely not ever going to be in Smash in any form. There are a lot of less controversial leaders in the games though, so those are candidates for playable and Spirits. I'm saying less controversial since while they're still debated, they're generally more in the background.

If I'd choose a playabe leader, it'd likely be Tokugawa Ieyasu (less notorious than Nobunaga - both of them are playable in different games), Elizabeth I or maybe Napoleon (as a metajoke to the Napoleon GBA game and the Napoleon hanafuda card, both of which Nintendo produced). All three of these are mainstays in the series. If one wanted to go truly meta, one could choose the Hawaiian / Polynesian leader Kamehameha (playable in Civ V).

So here's what I'm getting (and formulating): The character would be all about stage control, and could claim small portions of the stage which gives them a boon of some sort depending on what type of thing you used to claim territory. The longer this territory is left alone, the more of a boon it gives the character, so its opponents will want to destroy it. Sounds like a neat idea.

For a second I thought it might promote platform camping, but you could just hit the territory from below the platform so it'd probably do the opposite. lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I mean, it's not, cause it's still a Musou game. But it's about as good as Musou games get.

Some people get a lot of enjoyment from mashing a single button though.

It's why Belmont mains exist.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

My gut prediction is that the next character will be someone this thread never saw coming, for better or worse.

That's the only trend that seems to be consistent.

I feel like I'm the only guy who called Terry. lol

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I really wish Etika was still around to see the new DLC characters, he would've loved Min Min. To me at least, Etika was a big part of Smash culture, and instead of tuning into a Nintendo Direct, I would tune into his streams to watch the Direct alongside him.

What happened to him fLIcking sucked. At least he witnessed this popoff.