Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Unless you're working on the game, no one's in a position to say when BotW 2 will come out and how far it's gotten in development.

We got what appeared to be specific cutscenes from what I'd assume is the beginning of the game. At the very least, it didn't seem like they had just started development. However, there's still a lot we don't know. The game could launch as early as 2020 or as late as 2022. We haven't been given a whole lot to work with since E3 2019.

At this point I'm convinced your parents got murdered in an alley by someone who's clothes had a pattern and you're trying to pretend that didn't happen by denying patterns existing at all

 

[Cosmic77]

At this point I'm convinced your parents got murdered in an alley by someone who's clothes had a pattern and you're trying to pretend that didn't happen by denying patterns existing at all

Must've missed the part where I brought up patterns and said BotW2 was coming out in 2020. Good thing you know my stance on things better than I do.

I made a post saying either side could be right or wrong and that it's difficult to make any calls when we know just as much as we did a year and a half ago. Why are you arguing against this?

 

[N3ON]

Yes, well, despite my lack of position on the game's development team, I suspect the side that says BotW2 is coming in 2020 will be wrong.

 

[Shroob]

If BotW2 was coming out this year, we'd have heard about it by now. That was Nintendo's BIG E3 shock factor last year, as much as I like Origami King and am excited for Pikmin 3 on Switch, that's a game that's not just going to be shadow dropped on Twitter 2 months before it comes out, that's going to be a tagline for a General direct if no game ever was.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Must've missed the part where I brought up patterns and said BotW2 was coming out in 2020. Good thing you know my stance on things better than I do.

I made a post saying either side could be right or wrong and that it's difficult to make any calls when we know just as much as we did a year and a half ago. Why are you arguing against this?

The discussion is about BotW2. Nintendo's established a pattern about 'now in development' not meaning 'coming soon'. By saying it's still entirely possible for a 2020 release to happen and that we just don't know, you're once again trying to deny patterns existing.

If BotW2 was coming out this year, we'd have heard about it by now. That was Nintendo's BIG E3 shock factor last year, as much as I like Origami King and am excited for Pikmin 3 on Switch, that's a game that's not just going to be shadow dropped on Twitter 2 months before it comes out, that's going to be a tagline for a General direct if no game ever was.

BotW is easily the biggest Nintendo game since what, Galaxy? Maybe Nintendo has convinced people by their braindead stunt from yesterday that they no longer are capable of sensible decisions or something

 

[Shroob]

The discussion is about BotW2. Nintendo's established a pattern about 'now in development' not meaning 'coming soon'. By saying it's still entirely possible for a 2020 release to happen and that we just don't know, you're once again trying to deny patterns existing.

BotW is easily the biggest Nintendo game since what, Galaxy? Maybe Nintendo has convinced people by their braindead stunt from yesterday that they no longer are capable of sensible decisions or something

Honestly, Galaxy seems like a fair comparison to be blunt. Both games were monumental not only for the system, but their franchises too, and ironically, both are getting/got sequels.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Like, it's gotta be this year, right? Are they really gonna put 5 characters into 2021 and just call it a day? Cause like, bruh, this year has been dry as hell for Smash.

They might. That's basically what Covid is making SF5 do for this last season of DLC. Dan comes out this year, and the rest are all in 2021.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They might. That's basically what Covid is making SF5 do for this last season of DLC. Dan comes out this year, and the rest are all in 2021.

At least they told us who else was in besides the last character then

 

[Deleted member]

I think BoTW was a very large success. I also think it will not be released in 2020, due to COVID-19 and you can tell how much effort is needed to complete this game.

At this point I'm convinced your parents got murdered in an alley by someone who's clothes had a pattern and you're trying to pretend that didn't happen by denying patterns existing at all

This statement was really funny to me.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Yes, and this is something that I absolutely hate.
Years ago I was a diehard Mario and Zelda fan, now occasionally I still play those franchises, but I stopped being an obsessive fan of them when I realized they were "sterilizing" them, and it's something that started out with the DS/Wii. I only play them when I'm 100% sure that I'm going to enjoy the game and replay it multiple times in the future... if it does not interest me, I just skip it. I skipped many entries so far, including 3D World and Odyssey.

Damn dude, you’re missing out one of the best games ever. Odyssey is the complete opposite of sterile. It does so many new, interesting things gameplay wise. Mario goes to entirely new lands & meets new races of people that have never appeared before too. There’s barely any Toads in it lol

I’d highly suggest watching some reviews on Odyssey. It’s an amazing game. If it wasn’t for Smash Ultimate, I’d say Odyssey is the Switch’s crown jewel.

 

[Aetheri]

Damn dude, you’re missing out one of the best games ever. Odyssey is the complete opposite of sterile. It does so many new, interesting things gameplay wise. Mario goes to entirely new lands & meets new races of people that have never appeared before too. There’s barely any Toads in it lol

I’d highly suggest watching some reviews on Odyssey. It’s an amazing game. If it wasn’t for Smash Ultimate, I’d say Odyssey is the Switch’s crown jewel.

Even I bought and played Odyssey and I'm the guy that doesn't even care for Mario titles.

 

[KillerCage]

pic.twitter.com/xNDuYMEN1A

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) September 4, 2020

this totally isn't suggestive at all nope

Are they referencing Freedom Planet's finale here?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Are they referencing Freedom Planet's finale here?

That'd be one hell of a coincidence as GalaxyTrail posted that they'd show a Freedom Planet 2 update soon when I completely forgot about that game

 

[Eldrake]

That sad feeling when Metroid shares Legend of Zelda's anniversary so Nintendo will never celebrate Metroid's anniversary.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That sad feeling when Metroid shares Legend of Zelda's anniversary so Nintendo will never celebrate Metroid's anniversary.

Nah they'll finally give us the Prime Trilogy port, but they'll remove it from the Wii U VC and it'll only be available for 6 weeks and then go "It seems Metroid simply doesn't sell" and scrap Prime 4

 

[TechPowah]

I'd rather get my teeth pulled than see a FOURTH Pokemon Kanto game lmao
----

Anyway, sorry in advance if this was touched on already, but in the case of licensing costs
sometimes it just depends on the company's mood, regardless of how big the character or price tag is or "should" be

among what I assume would be a great variety of reasons why Crash never made it to PS All Stars
one of the biggest was Activision simply asked for far too much for Superbot's and Sony's blood
because Activision
and mind you, this was 2013 at the absolute latest, back when Crash was still in retirement and the Remake Trilogy was years away from being public knowledge

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'd sooner get my teeth pulled than see a FOURTH Pokemon Kanto game lmao
----

Anyway, sorry in advance if this was touched on already, but in the case of licensing costs
sometimes it just depends on the company's mood, regardless of how big the character or price tag is or "should" be

among what I assume would be a great variety of reasons
why Crash never made it to PS All Stars, one of the biggest was Activision simply asked for far too much for Superbot's and Sony's blood
because Activision
and mind you, this was 2013 at the absolute latest, back when Crash was still in retirement and the Remake Trilogy was years away from being public knowledge

To my understanding, that game had a lot of budget issues while Sony kept meddling with the game in general. Shame too, PSABR just needed a few changes and it'd have as much praise as Smash imo

 

[SpectreJordan]

I'd rather get my teeth pulled than see a FOURTH Pokemon Kanto game lmao
----

Anyway, sorry in advance if this was touched on already, but in the case of licensing costs
sometimes it just depends on the company's mood, regardless of how big the character or price tag is or "should" be

among what I assume would be a great variety of reasons why Crash never made it to PS All Stars
one of the biggest was Activision simply asked for far too much for Superbot's and Sony's blood
because Activision
and mind you, this was 2013 at the absolute latest, back when Crash was still in retirement and the Remake Trilogy was years away from being public knowledge

That could be a reason why Crash doesn’t make it. But on the other hand, Activision wants Crash to be one of their staple franchises so they’re probably looking for good marketing opportunities. Smash is a hell of a marketing tool.

 

[Deleted member]

If BotW2 was coming out this year, we'd have heard about it by now. That was Nintendo's BIG E3 shock factor last year, as much as I like Origami King and am excited for Pikmin 3 on Switch, that's a game that's not just going to be shadow dropped on Twitter 2 months before it comes out, that's going to be a tagline for a General direct if no game ever was.

To be fair, wasn't Mario Odyssey announced like 2 months before its release?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To be fair, wasn't Mario Odyssey announced like 2 months before its release?

No? It was announced January 2017 iirc, 9 months before release

 

[Deleted member]

How large was the influence that Smash played on Three Houses's sales?

I heard Three Houses was a succesful game, but was a large or small part of it because of Smash?

 

[osby]

How large was the influence that Smash played on Three Houses's sales?

I heard Three Houses was a succesful game, but was a large or small part of it because of Smash?

Not sure how much Smash added to that, but iirc, it already sold pretty well before Byleth's reveal.

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure how much Smash added to that, but iirc, it already sold pretty well before Byleth's reveal.

True, I am dumb.

I'd rather get my teeth pulled than see a FOURTH Pokemon Kanto game lmao

I don't think another Kanto game is going to happen for the Switch, unless it is a spin-off or something.

 

[Deleted member]

No? It was announced January 2017 iirc, 9 months before release

Really?! Damn. I guess I had missed it. I feel like the first I heard of it was the Summer before its release lol.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Damn dude, you’re missing out one of the best games ever. Odyssey is the complete opposite of sterile. It does so many new, interesting things gameplay wise. Mario goes to entirely new lands & meets new races of people that have never appeared before too. There’s barely any Toads in it lol

I’d highly suggest watching some reviews on Odyssey. It’s an amazing game. If it wasn’t for Smash Ultimate, I’d say Odyssey is the Switch’s crown jewel.

I know, but there's something about that game that makes it unappealing to me, it's difficult to explain it in words.
Probably it's the game constatly asking you to not be taken seriously, with all those funny situations (including the costumes) and clashing styles, like, the dinosaur, the food world that looks like if it had no textures, and all the realistic looking locations and characters, the Dark Souls wannabe thing... It lacks the coherence and immersivity of something like Sunshine. But it's also because of the gameplay, I think that having to possess stuff with the hat takes away from platforming.

I mean, I don't find many differences in Mario becoming a realistic t-rex from Paper Mario fighting a giant realistic pencil case, they both scream "casual" to me.

I watched a lot of gameplay videos and I know the game enough... let's say that aside of the things that I said, the amount of moons to collect in order to 100% the game is the real reason for why I skipped it and I seriously doubt I'll change my mind anytime soon: I had a deja vu of the Korok seeds from BOTW and I ran away in fear.

 

[Metal Shop X]

I know, but there's something about that game that makes it unappealing to me, it's difficult to explain it in words.
Probably it's the game constatly asking you to not be taken seriously, with all those funny situations (including the costumes) and clashing styles, like, the dinosaur, the food world that looks like if it had no textures, and all the realistic looking locations and characters, the Dark Souls wannabe thing... It lacks the coherence and immersivity of something like Sunshine. But it's also because of the gameplay, I think that having to possess stuff with the hat takes away from platforming.

I mean, I don't find many differences in Mario becoming a realistic t-rex from Paper Mario fighting a giant realistic pencil case, they both scream "casual" to me.

I watched a lot of gameplay videos and I know the game enough... let's say that aside of the things that I said, the amount of moons to collect in order to 100% the game is the real reason for why I skipped it and I seriously doubt I'll change my mind anytime soon: I had a deja vu of the Korok seeds from BOTW and I ran away in fear.

I mean, sunshine had moment where you're throw in some sort of bizarre dimension filled with DOOT and make pretty much no sense beside being challenge you must complete without FLUDD. That, and the game try to take itself wayyy too seriously when the VA & plot aren't good enough to support it (where's Phoenix Wright when you need him? Mario was convicted of crime so quickly, you think they wanted to put him in jail before he even was invited on the island), atleast from what I remember.

Also, scream "casual"? What does this even mean? How's a T-Rex is on the same level as a pencil?

Finally, don't know why peoples are so focused on 100% when the reward for those isn't even that worth it (Isn't Sunshine 100% pretty bad due to the blue coins?). Just play the game & have fun with it, there's lots of moons for you to take so you can go how you prefer it. (tho here your problems is that you already seen alot, but that's the problem with spoilers in general)

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think there's a scenario in which that is likely. I feel like either they're coming next year, or they're gonna have to wait a while longer for their Let's Go remake.

Next year's not a good time. I'm honestly expecting no new main series game, just some mobile events and some more DLC for Sword and Shield.

 

[Calamitas]

I'd rather get my teeth pulled than see a FOURTH Pokemon Kanto game lmao

Impossible. You are Pokémon consumer. You love Charizard and Pikachu and Kanto and nothing else. Please Buy Our Products And Engage With Them And Do Not Demand Anything.

 

[Deleted member]

I know, but there's something about that game that makes it unappealing to me, it's difficult to explain it in words.
Probably it's the game constatly asking you to not be taken seriously, with all those funny situations (including the costumes) and clashing styles, like, the dinosaur, the food world that looks like if it had no textures, and all the realistic looking locations and characters, the Dark Souls wannabe thing... It lacks the coherence and immersivity of something like Sunshine. But it's also because of the gameplay, I think that having to possess stuff with the hat takes away from platforming.

I mean, I don't find many differences in Mario becoming a realistic t-rex from Paper Mario fighting a giant realistic pencil case, they both scream "casual" to me.

I watched a lot of gameplay videos and I know the game enough... let's say that aside of the things that I said, the amount of moons to collect in order to 100% the game is the real reason for why I skipped it and I seriously doubt I'll change my mind anytime soon: I had a deja vu of the Korok seeds from BOTW and I ran away in fear.

I get a lot of what you're saying; even agree with a lot of it (that Food land did lack an aesthetic appeal) but the one thing I can't agree with is the Hat mechanic taking away from the platforming. The Hat and the Possession mechanic added more platforming options and versatility than any previous Mario game hands down. Because the level design and worlds are all based around that mechanic, there's tons of ways to approach any given situation. As opposed to a game like Sunshine where its all using the F.L.U.D.D. pack to propel yourself around or shooting water at things with it (or the bonus level here and there making you rely on simple running, jumping, & diving without it).

I mean, if the only real reason you kept away from it is your OCD compulsion to 100% a game, it's a damn shame because you're truly missing out.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...And SMTV

I can never not read this as "SM TV" instead of "SMT V" as if it's the title of some TV channel.

Heck, there's a reason for why I dislike Bandana Waddle Dee so much, it's because I think he's part of that exact process of "sterilization" of the Kirby franchise; luckily Kumazaki brought back all the old characters and references to the old games, but the francise still feels like it's getting "sterilized" regardless due to how every game uses the same formula, engine and visual style of the Wii game and it's getting stale; I bought Star Allies only as a way to say thank you to HAL for bringing back Adeleine, I would have happily skipped it too if it wasn't for that.

Hmm...I agree that the series is getting stale, but I'm not sure it's due to sterilization like it is with the Super Mario series. I think the problem is that the games themselves are very samey. They all bring new ideas, but they don't give off any sort of different vibe. I feel like in this case it's a "sticking to what works" thing rather than a "must be on-brand" thing (it also doesn't help that Kirby Star Allies's level design isn't all that great). I guess we'll just have to see if the next game tries to change up the formula or not.

I know, but there's something about that game that makes it unappealing to me, it's difficult to explain it in words.
Probably it's the game constatly asking you to not be taken seriously, with all those funny situations (including the costumes) and clashing styles, like, the dinosaur, the food world that looks like if it had no textures, and all the realistic looking locations and characters, the Dark Souls wannabe thing... It lacks the coherence and immersivity of something like Sunshine.

When they finally do something different and you don't like it. Whomp whomp...

I think that is a fair criticism though. I think they all have their reasons for existing (the T-Rex is over detailed in a cartooned world for comedic effect; it's funny because it doesn't belong, the luncheon kingdom (I think) is trying to reference how early polygonal models looked, and I think New Donk City and the Dragon are supposed to just bring something that feels really different), but it can come off as disjointed. The costumes though are just having something for everyone. You don't even have to wear them (I generally don't), and there are a bunch that are quite nice.

But it's also because of the gameplay, I think that having to possess stuff with the hat takes away from platforming.

I've seen this criticism before mentioned off-hand when talking about Sonic's design. He just pegged it as variety for the sake of it without any substance. I don't entirely agree, though I could see why the constant switching of controls would turn someone off. It is certainly antithetical to what Super Mario is in every game prior.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

For me, Odyssey is like the opposite of the Galaxy games in terms of how the fun is placed. The former is incredibly enjoyable in the main game while becoming less engaging more you 100% it, while the latter two are more consistent in regards to overall fun factor. If you're a completionist, they don't hit Odyssey's highs but don't hit its tedious lows either. And even the stuff like the Manta Ray surfing or Fluzzard flights doesn't rankle nearly as bad as the stock car races or jump rope sections in SMO.

 

[Deleted member]

Still confused about Nintendo's silly decision.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This makes me wonder how each series is doing in regards to sterilization. imo:

• Super Mario is the worst with it. It almost feels like outside of main titles, new ideas are banned. The Luigi's Mansion series will never be the same, Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle is probably the freshest thing in recent memory that isn't Super Mario Odyssey, and even if Paper Mario went back to its roots, it'll still be kinda bleh since they won't be able to design cool new characters for it (or they're just creatively bankrupt and went "here you go, a stapler. Have fun").
• I think Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U was the height of sterilization for the series. It somehow felt incredibly generic and continued the trend of doing its best to remove all difficult tech from the series. I do believe though, that Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has fixed this to a good degree with a more interesting (likely by necessity) artstyle and attempt at making the game deeper at a surface level. Would love to see a new take on Battlefield though...Oh wait. Eh, you know what I mean.
• Kirby...I dunno about Kirby. I don't think it's sterilizing itself so much as it's stuck in its ways. There's nothing I would say that it's doing to make itself more family friendly or more easy to play (I mean, kind of, but it's a consequence of bad level design than anything else I think), it just seems to be altering existing ideas rather than making new ones for the most part. Like, can we stop having a Meta Knight, and a King Dedede boss fight and shoving Green Greens into the final boss theme in every single game? Thank you.
• The Legend of Zelda hasn't seen this one bit. It's constantly either changing its artstyle (though the toon style did reign supreme for a while) or its gameplay structure, and each title has something new to offer.
• Pokémon is what happens when you're both stuck in your ways, and actively trying to sterilize your series. The new designs are cuter, and the old designs weren't even drawn differently to compensate, the artstyle isn't anything striking, and the games are easy to the point of being boring because GameFreak has no faith in their players to stick it out. Each title may have something new to offer, but it's either surface level, or a quality of life change, and GameFreak can't tell the difference between the two. All this, and the games are pretty much the same as they've always been. It's pretty much the most depressing thing ever. The sad part is there's nothing anyone can really do about it since Pokémon is both the biggest thing ever and people automatically write off anything remotely similar as a "rip-off", making competition literally impossible.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Reminder its been one year since the last general direct.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This makes me wonder how each series is doing in regards to sterilization. imo:

• Kirby...I dunno about Kirby. I don't think it's sterilizing itself so much as it's stuck in its ways. There's nothing I would say that it's doing to make itself more family friendly or more easy to play (I mean, kind of, but it's a consequence of bad level design than anything else I think), it just seems to be altering existing ideas rather than making new ones for the most part. Like, can we stop having a Meta Knight, and a King Dedede boss fight and shoving Green Greens into the final boss theme in every single game? Thank you.

With Kirby its a case where the it feels like they've gone as far as they can with 2D gameplay. They brought back the Super Star formula with Return to Dreamland and perfected it in the next two games with new variations (Foreground/background with Triple Deluxe & the Mech Suit in Robobot), with the latter possibly being the tightest Kirby title ever released. The big issue with Star Allies (beyond the decrease in difficulty) was that that it felt like a game grabbing old ideas (helpers, power combinations) because it really didn't have a big central idea of its own. For lack of a better phrase, its the most Kirby-iest Kirby game, basically to its detriment; feeling almost NSMB in how bog standard it felt in its design.

Maybe the series doesn't necessarily have to go to 3D to try new ideas, but it does need refreshed beyond another sharpening of a gameplay format that was invented in 1996.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Didn't the last update for Kirby Star Allies as like the devs saying Star Allies was the last 2D Kirby game (hence the return of lots of fan favourites) and that their next project would be more experimental?

I need to do some research on this to be sure.

 

[TechPowah]

The development for All Stars could be called "Executive Meddling: the Game" and no one would fault you
a good third-to-half the characters they had planned or considered to add, were all slapped down by either Sony or participating collaborators, gave them a budget that calling it shoestring would be an overstatement

Capcom outright railroaded them into using a version of DmC Dante that wasn't allowed to use his full moveset or even his real skins for SpOiLEr reasons

Zeus was most definitely a Sony mandate to cross promote God of War Ascension, despite his reception being lukewarm or mediocre at best due to being a second GOW and an assumed save-for-sequel pick, Isaac Clarke being such a left field pick that no one ever considered or asked for

and then the second they rightfully didn't sell gangbusters, Sony torches the place and runs

BUT IN ANY CASE, the fact Activison would be too stingy with a character that they haven't really done much with over the previous 10 year gap tells me, whether or not Nintendo goes to them for Crash, whether they get him or not
they definitely won't be going cheap

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

With Kirby its a case where the it feels like they've gone as far as they can with 2D gameplay. They brought back the Super Star formula with Return to Dreamland and perfected it in the next two games with new variations (Foreground/background with Triple Deluxe & the Mech Suit in Robobot), with the latter possibly being the tightest Kirby title ever released. The big issue with Star Allies (beyond the decrease in difficulty) was that that it felt like a game grabbing old ideas (helpers, power combinations) because it really didn't have a big central idea of its own. For lack of a better phrase, its the most Kirby-iest Kirby game, basically to its detriment; feeling almost NSMB in how bog standard it felt in its design.

Maybe the series doesn't necessarily have to go to 3D to try new ideas, but it does need refreshed beyond another sharpening of a gameplay format that was invented in 1996.

I think the idea was to bring back helpers, and use that idea to its full extent, which I think is an amazing idea, but something went wrong in execution. I kind of hope they keep helpers, or at least multiplayer (unless they're going 3D or something else that would make it understandable to remove multiplayer) in future titles, because that was a huge draw for me. I don't think they've exhausted all ideas that the series could do to shake things up in 2D, but I do think that jumping to 3D would do wonders for the series if done right. If nothing else, mixing in the current style Kirby games with more experimental stuff could help a lot in keeping things fresh.

Didn't the last update for Kirby Star Allies as like the devs saying Star Allies was the last 2D Kirby game (hence the return of lots of fan favourites) and that their next project would be more experimental?

I need to do some research on this to be sure.

I don't know that they've said they're abandoning 2D, but they do seem to be cooking up something new based on the general rumblings from the devs and the internet. Granted, this was also the case with Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield, but we'll see what happens.

 

[Deleted member]

• I think Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U was the height of sterilization for the series.

One word: Brawl.

Smash 4 was geared towards casuals, yes, but I would say Brawl was geared even more towards casuals.

They literally added tripping in Brawl just for the casuals.

Due to the floaty nature, high tech combos are a lot more difficult to achieve. At least in Smash 4, you could get some combos in.

I love Brawl, and I respect it, but they pandered quite hard to the casuals and removed the high-tech parts of it, which is fair, because we got a lot of new Smash fans from this.

Also... I keep on imagining the Mario series no longer being able to get pregnant.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

One word: Brawl.

Smash 4 was geared towards casuals, yes, but I would say Brawl was geared even more towards casuals.

They literally added tripping in Brawl just for the casuals.

And define what you mean by sterilization, because I keep on imagining the Mario series no longer being able to get pregnant.

I'm using another definition of the word. lol

free from living germs or microorganisms; aseptic:
sterile surgical instruments.

In the case of the games, I and others are using the term to mean a general draining of the life from a franchise in order for it to appeal to more people. This can be through visual styles, difficulty, and a lack of ideas that give each game a different feel from the others.

I do get some of it, we don't want any more scenes where Mario is jealous of Luigi and steps on his foot, but something like Mario Strikers: Charged where everyone being highly aggressive is kinda the point (and also the joke) I feel should be allowed to exist.

EDIT: I'm not sure if Super Smash Bros. Brawl could be considered more sterile than it's two immediate successors. I do think it does have a lot more systems that are actively trying to discourage competitive play, but it also has a lot of big and bold ideas, not the least of which being the art style. If anything, it kind of feels like the Shadow the Hedgehog of the series.