Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SKX31]

@Swamp Sensei Before I get into my post I just noticed your signature and it's really cool!

Anywho, when is Nintendo going to give us a modern online system, you know, like the ones implemented in most consoles since the late 2000s? I know this is a weird post to make but I wanted to get some opinions on the subject. The fact that I can't go to my friends list and message people or ask them to play a game with me is kinda disappointing, but I'm assuming it has to do with the fact that a more advanced online system may attract predatory behavior on a widely known family friendly platform...? Idk.

Okay, I've actually looked into this quite a bit, so I can give a kinda rambly answer:

First of all, one has to remember that Nintendo's way of building consoles - at least Wii onward - has been focused around the "new ways to play" aspect. It's evident in their messaging and their way of designing games around new mechanics and controllers. I did find Ars Technica's interview with Reggie in 2018, and this piece seems important:

Bishop directly asked Fils-Aime about issues that Nintendo Switch Online users are facing with its peer-to-peer approach to online gaming as opposed to connecting to central servers. Fils-Aime did not answer this question and instead offered his take on why the service relies on a smartphone app for voice communication: "Nintendo's approach is to do things differently. We have a much different suite of experiences than our competitors offer, and we do that in a different way. This creates a sort of yin and yang for our consumers. They’re excited about cloud saves and legacy content but wish we might deliver voice chat a different way, for example. [sic]

"What we see is a situation where we know that Nintendo Switch is being played in the open, at a park, on a metro bus," he continued. "We believe the easiest way for you to connect and have a peer-to-peer experience with voice chat is with your mobile phone. It’s always there, it’s always with you."

While Reggie's didn't answer the original question, his answer still says quite a lot: Online's not exactly a priority. And Nintendo's organizational ideology prides itself on themselves being unique (see Furukawa's comment re: Nintendo not giving huge prize money to SSBU tournaments).

Reggie's comment does also shine a major light on the mobile aspect - mobiles also have friend lists after all. But it seems like Nintendo misjudged: they thought that solution was 100 % Galaxy Brain when they missed a couple steps in reality. First, Fortnite on the Switch has native voice chat without the app, which severely undermines the app's voice chat by implication. Second, Discord also exists, and they're also on mobile phones. The NSO app has its uses, but voice chat ain't it generally. Also, doing things differently =/= they're doing it well all the time.

It's also evident from the fact that Nintendo's one of the few major companies that do not have dedicated servers. From Seattle Times' article on NSO's launch:

Nintendo has long ignored online gaming, for philosophical and financial reasons. The company became a powerhouse through titles designed to be played alone, such as Zelda and Metroid, or face-to-face with friends in Mario Kart. There has also been concern that strangers could use the internet to reach children playing its family-focused titles.

Another factor is the cost of building online networks for a company that has traditionally been financially conservative. But with multiplayer gaming a huge part of the $138 billion games industry, the Kyoto-based company had little choice but to embrace online.

To replicate the type of platform used by Sony requires investing in servers around the world and constantly upgrading the network to ensure speeds keep up with game development and user growth.

I looked further into the concern angle, and Nintendo does actually have some of it in their official Crash Course for Parents:

Online interaction is one of the biggest concerns facing parents today. You can use parental controls to restrict your child's ability to interact with other players online. Encourage your child to tell you if they receive a friend request from an unknown user, or if they notice any suspicious activity between friends.

Online gaming is fun, but it's no substitute for real-world friendships. Make sure your kids and their friends are maintaining social ties in person.

So yes, that concern evidently exists. Maybe this plays a part in the lack of messaging system alongside Nintendo thinking the mobile app was better suited? I'm not entirely sure here, but it sounds like it. Anyway, while there are some good points here, Nintendo themselves have made something of a misstep IMHO by not building up their online infrastructure / hiring enough moderators in time. The online was going to matter one way or the other.

If there's any solace to this, it's that the demand for a better online is not going to vanish. The #FixUltimateOnline uproar proved that, and the mere fact that Sakurai contemplated rollback is slightly encouraging. #FixUltimateOnline might not be the end of the world, but it along with Ultimate being pulled from EVO Online (a major marketing opportunity removed from Nintendo's POV) clearly sent a major warning signal to Nintendo. And 8.1's existence proves that, even if it only made a small improvement to the bad online. If there's anything Nintendo's susceptible to it's bad PR.

Also, the stay-at-home orders did force Nintendo into working via the cloud - and the cloud infrastructure might be kept or even expanded since there could be a future disaster like the next big earthquake and / or tsunami. Sure, Nintendo's a financially conservative company - but the shift to subscription models (both NSO as well as their mobile offerings, as strange as the latter is) tells us that Nintendo realized that they had to pay some attention to the online services.

Still, nothing eh?

Well onwards into September more then.

Time for theme of the month:

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Alright Nintendo. What the ****.

Nintendo: What the **** do you want?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

changes text color

Let's see: Nice shade, not too close to everyone else's blue...I have achieved text color perfection! (Unless people can't read it. I tried to make sure it follows the accessability guidelines but I didn't have the exact grey. If it is hard to read pls let me know so I can fix it.)

So this gave me an idea for discussion. How would .hack work in Smash? I've never played it myself, but I've heard good things about it. Granted, it never gets mentioned among potential Bandai Namco reps, and I don't know if there's a reason for that or not...

Is .hack a game where you kinda just walk around or is that just .flow?

 

[TenghsienYang]

I doubt a Direct's happening this week anymore. Generally, they announce it the morning before, and today's already Wednesday. Small hope for a shadowdrop of SOMETHING this week, but I think I'll just keep playing my backlog...

Since all we can do is speculate, the last time a "Sakurai Presents" was announced was on a Friday.

On a side note, anyone tried Pokemon Prism? It's a hack of Pokemon Crystal with a completely new story, and includes up to Gen 4 plus a few original ones (The madmen even managed to put the later Pokemons cries in!), as well as four new types. There's a bunch of quality of life stuff from later gens programmed in. Most importantly, the difficulty spike on this game is insane, and feels like playing GSC blindly for the first time again, something I never really got out of most official Pokemon games...

 

[Shroob]

changes text color

Let's see: Nice shade, not too close to everyone else's blue...I have achieved text color perfection! (Unless people can't read it. I tried to make sure it follows the accessability guidelines but I didn't have the exact grey. If it is hard to read pls let me know so I can fix it.)


Is .hack a game where you kinda just walk around or is that just .flow?

.//Hack is a fake MMO. It's a game about being in an MMO.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I doubt a Direct's happening this week anymore. Generally, they announce it the morning before, and today's already Wednesday. Small hope for a shadowdrop of SOMETHING this week, but I think I'll just keep playing my backlog...

I'm thinking it'll be sometime in middle or late September. If not then were probably waiting until October and if nothing in October, I'm thinking we'll have to wait until next year. I'm convinced at this point COVID messed up the schedule.

 

[I.D.]

Is .hack a game where you kinda just walk around or is that just .flow?

It's one of those diamond in the rough JRPG series from the PS2 era.

 

[Shroob]

I'm thinking it'll be sometime in middle or late September. If not then were probably waiting until October and if nothing in October, I'm thinking we'll have to wait until next year. I'm convinced at this point COVID messed up the schedule.

I mean, do November and December just not exist anymore?

We've had countless November Directs.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I mean, do November and December just not exist anymore?

We've had countless November Directs.

I mean given an inevitable second wave occurring by then. I just don't see those months.

 

[Shroob]

I mean given an inevitable second wave occurring by then. I just don't see those months.

Second wave of what, Corona?

These Directs are filmed months in advance, they're not filmed the day/week of. Hell, all our "Sakurai Presents" videos were all filmed months in advance as said by him himself on multiple occasions.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Second wave of what, Corona?

These Directs are filmed months in advance, they're not filmed the day/week of. Hell, all our "Sakurai Presents" videos were all filmed months in advance as said by him himself on multiple occasions.

Yes.

I also still stand if nothing by October, we're probably waiting until next year.

 

[Shroob]

Yes.

I also still stand if nothing by October, we're probably waiting until next year.

That is some insane logic, not gonna lie.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yes.

I also still stand if nothing by October, we're probably waiting until next year.

Silly Michael. We can't have a second wave, the first one isn't gone yet!

 

[Hadokeyblade]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So this gave me an idea for discussion. How would .hack work in Smash? I've never played it myself, but I've heard good things about it. Granted, it never gets mentioned among potential Bandai Namco reps, and I don't know if there's a reason for that or not...

It would be kinda interesting.

The main character of the first series uses twin knives and has the ability to hack into the games universe. The data drain attack would make a neat final smash.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Silly Michael. We can't have a second wave, the first one isn't gone yet!

Given Flu Season is in October and if its not done by then, said wave is bound to get strong again when it first started.

 

[Cosmic77]

They usually announce general Directs a full day in advance, and since they rarely have anything on Fridays and Saturdays, I'm already feeling like it's time to drop this week and start looking into next week.

Unless they announce something at midnight or randomly shadowdrop a full Direct, this week ain't looking too good.

 

[Shroob]

They usually announce general Directs a full day in advance, and since they rarely have anything on Fridays and Saturdays, I'm already feeling like it's time to drop this week and start looking into next week.

Unless they announce something at midnight or randomly shadowdrop a full Direct, this week ain't looking too good.

Yeah, usually they do.

But this year our 1 General and 1 of the 2 Partners came out of the blue, with the other Partner not even being a 12 hour notice.


We got tomorrow and that's it for this leak.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Personally not expecting any general directs this year. I feel the rest will be partners which were meant for a general and but split into parts and the rest of character reveals will be Sakurai presents.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Given Flu Season is in October and if its not done by then, said wave is bound to get strong again when it first started.

What's the situation in Japan though? I could imagine it getting worse in the U.S., but are they being more careful in Japan? Is it already better?

I can imagine flu season actually making things better since people tend to stay home when they get the flu, and there's all the more reason to do so in a pandemic with flu like symptoms (among other, worse ones).

I may just be ignorant, but I don't exactly see the writing on the wall on that front.

We got tomorrow and that's it for this leak.

Not to mention that there's some actual evidence beyond the leak. We'll know tomorrow if it was just a coinkidink.

 

[I.D.]

They usually announce general Directs a full day in advance, and since they rarely have anything on Fridays and Saturdays, I'm already feeling like it's time to drop this week and start looking into next week.

Unless they announce something at midnight or randomly shadowdrop a full Direct, this week ain't looking too good.

More like it's time to drop this year and start looking into next year. Nobody (I hope) is expecting a full direct by now. We're just waiting to see if Nintendo shadowdrops something.

 

[Shroob]

And as mentioned by someone else


The only time we've not gotten a Spirit/Tourney event is on the same week of a reveal.



This will be very strange.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What's the situation in Japan though? I could imagine it getting worse in the U.S., but are they being more careful in Japan? Is it already better?

What I do recall is how differently they work. Japan for most workers is staying at home thus slowing down development time.

 

[AreJay25]

I think I found the script for the next general Direct.

Spoiler

Seems a bit light on content though.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

And as mentioned by someone else


The only time we've not gotten a Spirit/Tourney event is on the same week of a reveal.



This will be very strange.

Then watch this be also the same case as with the NEW removed on the Smash page which always had indicated a character reveal. Look how long its been...

 

[I.D.]

Then watch this be also the same case as with the NEW removed on the Smash page which always had indicated a character reveal. Look how long its been...

Hey now... we got small battlefield out of it...

 

[Shroob]

Then watch this be also the same case as with the NEW removed on the Smash page which always had indicated a character reveal. Look how long its been...

The NEW thing has always been non-consistent evidence.


It's evidence yes, but it's not consistent.


The NEW thing was removed not even 2 weeks after K.Rool was shown off, but it was still about 2-3 weeks until Isabelle was shown. It's evidence, but it's evidence that varies.


Likewise, this has always been a constant.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hey now... we got small battlefield out of it...

The Small Battlefield has been around two weeks or so now. Long before the NEW was removed.

I'm telling ya, covid messed up the schedules.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

More like it's time to drop this year and start looking into next year. Nobody (I hope) is expecting a full direct by now. We're just waiting to see if Nintendo shadowdrops something.

I do think it's still possible, but a Nintendo Direct Mini (an actual one, not a Partner Showcase) is definitely more likely. It could even be a random Sakurai Presents "???", but I dunno 'bout that. This is of course, assuming that anything's coming at all, but yeah.

 

[Cosmic77]

More like it's time to drop this year and start looking into next year. Nobody (I hope) is expecting a full direct by now. We're just waiting to see if Nintendo shadowdrops something.

I think it's a little premature to give up this early. There's still a lot of time left before September ends.

If we don't get anything before October though, then I wouldn't expect any more 2020 releases. Origami King and Pikmin 3 Deluxe were given two months before their launch, so anything revealed past September is probably more likely to be a 2021 game.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

As promised, how my dream brain interpreted Ninten as Smash Ultimate DLC:



Yes, his scarf is black, his hat is yellow, and he's wearing basketball shoes. The only thing I fudged a bit was the details of what the hat was. I just remember it being yellow with a black bill, so I made up the rest.

In retrospect, I would turn the hat to his left more and I'd change the proportions a bit. My dream self depicted him as slightly shorter than Ness, being sort of a Pichu to Ness' Pikachu. I don't really like the color balance, so I'd also change some colors, probably on his shoes.

It'd be wild if we got something on this level of reimagining (better design, though) for one of the characters. We kind of already did with Smash 4 Roy and Brawl Pit. I'd be up for another old character getting a modern facelift, especially if that character hasn't been seen in awhile.

 

[I.D.]

No Smash event this week and neither NoA nor NoE have tweeted anything in well over a day now. The stage is set for a shadowdrop at least. Let's see if something is actually delivered...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

No Smash event this week and neither NoA nor NoE have tweeted anything in well over a day now. The stage is set for a shadowdrop at least. Let's see if something is actually delivered...

I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I'd wait until next week to start again.

 

[Shroob]

I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I'd wait until next week to start again.

Mike, is everything alright bro? You've been kinda.... how do I put it, a downer the last 2-3 days now?


Ya need to talk?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Mike, is everything alright bro? You've been kinda.... how do I put it, a downer the last 2-3 days now?


Ya need to talk?

Yeah, I'm okay. Just a bit pessimistic to be honest given how many times leakers had cried wolf getting our hopes up all for nothing. So I just don't know when we should expect anything else at this point.

And now I'm convinced it could be that covid might of had screwed up the schedule which is understandable.

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, I'm okay. Just a bit pessimistic to be honest given how many times leakers had cried wolf getting our hopes up all for nothing. So I just don't know when we should expect anything else at this point.

I mean, that's fine, but you're also kinda going out of your way to stomp out other's excitement if they show any visible signs of it.


We're all very exhausted by the drought, and we're all very cautious about tomorrow, but there's no need to be so fatalistic about it, ya know.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I mean, that's fine, but you're also kinda going out of your way to stomp out other's excitement if they show any visible signs of it.


We're all very exhausted by the drought, and we're all very cautious about tomorrow, but there's no need to be so fatalistic about it, ya know.

I just don't want them to get disappointed either but perhaps I should just keep it to myself then from now on. Apologies.

 

[Shroob]

I'm still banking on a shadow drop of some form, be it an actual Mini, or this rumored Mario thing.


Checking the Smashwiki, we didn't get a Spirit event until AFTER the March Mini-Direct, assuming I understand timezones.

 

[Trevenant]

Yeah, I'm okay. Just a bit pessimistic to be honest given how many times leakers had cried wolf getting our hopes up all for nothing. So I just don't know when we should expect anything else at this point.

And now I'm convinced it could be that covid might of had screwed up the schedule which is understandable.

I mean those are leakers. These are bits of food caught between the teeth of the horses mouth so to speak and we won't know if it's a gift horses mouth unless Nintendo says so. Here's to hoping I guess.

Discussion starter. Name a character you know who may or may not (preferably the latter) have a shot who has tonnes of potential for a really unique mechanic.

Just to start it off that Dragon Quest question I asked the other day wasn't entirely unrelated as I was throwing around ideas for a a playable Jade who I thought would be the most challenging to make a modest around after my recent walkthrough although I haven't picked it up since I entered the Fortress Of Fear. Since in several cutscenes she practically kicks things and is left unscathed while what was kicked was easily put in a more prone state I thought a fun idea was if she kicked terrain that it would temporarily disappear somewhat like the weights on Mushroom Kingdom. Kicking the walls on Mementos with an F Tilt for instance would cause them to disappear. Granted a gimmick based on Revamp would probably work better and be more canon but I was thinking an out there gimmick that could be really unique as revamp for all intents and purposes is a stance change. It wouldn't even be feasible in the game itself but I guess it doesn't have to be if it won't exist

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm still banking on a shadow drop of some form, be it an actual Mini, or this rumored Mario thing.


Checking the Smashwiki, we didn't get a Spirit event until AFTER the March Mini-Direct, assuming I understand timezones.

i think they waited until the character (Min Min) was officially revealed, and i think it was Octopath that time

 

[Dr.DonPatch64]

I'm still banking on a shadow drop of some form, be it an actual Mini, or this rumored Mario thing.


Checking the Smashwiki, we didn't get a Spirit event until AFTER the March Mini-Direct, assuming I understand timezones.

Question, How do time-zones exactly work between regions?