Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Lamperouge]

New universes as in "has little to no representation in Ultimate as of now".

So...Great Plateau Tower, several music tracks and spirits, and its own incarnation of Link (who also appears in the sequel) being in Ultimate is considered "little to no representation" for Breath of the Wild?

BotW 2 doesn't have a character yet, sure, and its world might end up being a bit different than the original game, but the universe is already covered in Smash.

 

[Calamitas]

BOTW2 and MP4 have no confirmed release dates. They might not even release until 2022 or later.

Yeah, because "we only show off games that are relatively close to release" Nintendo would show off BotW2 three years before it even came out. When it's most likely reusing the original's engine and tons of assets and features. They'd totally do that.

 

[SneakyLink]

So...Great Plateau Tower, several music tracks and spirits, and its own incarnation of Link (who also appears in the sequel) being in Ultimate is considered "little to no representation" for Breath of the Wild?

BotW 2 doesn't have a character yet, sure, and its world might end up being a bit different than the original game, but the universe is already covered in Smash.

I probably should have clarified.

Each game that gets in is "a new universe" because Ultimate had nothing from it perviously.

BOTW has stuff so it isn't new. BOTW2 on the other hand has nothing so it can get content.

Of course, since said game is a direct sequel, it probably won't get anything. Maybe spirits or if lucky, a Mii costume.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

The more I think about BOTW2 being in and all, how about a plot twist?

We've yet to see Ganon's Castle or Bowser's Castle in the game

 

[Calamitas]

The more I think about BOTW2 being in and all, how about a plot twist?

We've yet to see Ganon's Castle or Bowser's Castle in the game

I'd honestly be surprised if we saw Bowser's Castle in BotW2.

 

[DarthEnderX]

We're asking for pipe dreams now?

Super Smash Karts
Super Mario RPG remake in Paper Mario art-style
Waluigi's Wrecking Crew

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'd honestly be surprised if we saw Bowser's Castle in BotW2.

Well we did get this in SM3DW.

 

[SKX31]

I'd honestly be surprised if we saw Bowser's Castle in BotW2.

The Zelda timeline really got out of hand this time around:

 

[Thewafflemaker2000]

Nintendo said they would be doing more partner showcases, if the direct is real I wouldn’t be very excited for it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Nintendo said they would be doing more partner showcases, if the direct is real I wouldn’t be very excited for it.

NateDrake said it was a general though. And I think Partner showcases will all be Minis

 

[Cosmic77]

Why are we even debating whether or not BotW qualifies as a "new universe"? Byleth and Min Min together require this belief to be incredibly specific in order to still be true.

BotW2 would be a new game. If Nintendo wants to add a character from a recent game, yes, BotW2 would be a contender, and they might've considered it at some point. I doubt they'd get stuck on technicalities and say, "Wait, I don't think BotW2 counts as a new universe. Guess that's not on the table."

 

[Aetheri]

The more I think about BOTW2 being in and all, how about a plot twist?

We've yet to see Ganon's Castle or Bowser's Castle in the game

There's some theories going around suggesting the castle may be a Divine Beast, or a similar structure made of the same Sheikah tech.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I probably should have clarified.

Each game that gets in is "a new universe" because Ultimate had nothing from it perviously.

BOTW has stuff so it isn't new. BOTW2 on the other hand has nothing so it can get content.

Of course, since said game is a direct sequel, it probably won't get anything. Maybe spirits or if lucky, a Mii costume.

The trouble with this statement is that ARMS technically did have some previous content: spirits and an assist trophy. If that was still enough to warrant a new DLC fighter, that technically doesn't mean the franchises used for DLC have to be completely distanced from the original game's content.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Here's something fun to think about.

Fire Emblem Three Houses released in July of 2019 and Byleth arrived in Smash as a playable fighter in January of 2020. Six months after the game released and one month before the big Cindered Shadows DLC for Three Houses released.

Pokemon Sword/Shield released in November of 2019, it's been something close to ten months after the game released and the DLC for Crown Tundra is still a couple of months away from being released.


Right now is the perfect prime time to release a Pokemon SWSH fighter for Smash to advertise the game and it's upcoming DLC.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Actually I was thinking about Sega characters, I never really considered NiGHTS but that would be incredibly cool. I do really enjoy all the NiGHTS games. And Nights as character has a super cool design.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Here's something fun to think about.

Fire Emblem Three Houses released in July of 2019 and Byleth arrived in Smash as a playable fighter in January of 2020. Six months after the game released and one month before the big Cindered Shadows DLC for Three Houses released.

Pokemon Sword/Shield released in November of 2019, it's been something close to ten months after the game released and the DLC for Crown Tundra is still a couple of months away from being released.


Right now is the perfect prime time to release a Pokemon SWSH fighter for Smash to advertise the game and it's upcoming DLC.

Which I suspect will happen.

Pokemon is too big to pass up on in Nintendo's part. Biggest media franchise for a reason after all.

They did it for Fire Emblem. They'll certainly do the same here.

 

[MooMew64]

Here's something fun to think about.

Fire Emblem Three Houses released in July of 2019 and Byleth arrived in Smash as a playable fighter in January of 2020. Six months after the game released and one month before the big Cindered Shadows DLC for Three Houses released.

Pokemon Sword/Shield released in November of 2019, it's been something close to ten months after the game released and the DLC for Crown Tundra is still a couple of months away from being released.


Right now is the perfect prime time to release a Pokemon SWSH fighter for Smash to advertise the game and it's upcoming DLC.

Does that mean...It's in?

Oh yeah...

Spoiler: It's big brain time

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Actually I was thinking about Sega characters, I never really considered NiGHTS but that would be incredibly cool. I do really enjoy all the NiGHTS games. And Nights as character has a super cool design.

What happened to NiGHTS?

I remember seeing this character all of the time as a kid, but as of recent, I haven't heard anything regarding this IP in a very long time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh boy BotW2 character speculation? Oh, I'm so anxious to discuss Link 4, Zelda 3 and Ganondorf 2, surely something everyone would want to spend 5.99 on!

 

[Wunderwaft]

Does that mean...It's in?

Oh yeah...

Spoiler: It's big brain time

It's always big brain time

Jokes aside I think it's gonna be between Cinderace and Toxtricity, both Pokemon are kinda pushed by TPC but in the end it's gonna come down to Sakurai choosing which one he thinks is more fun to develop.

 

[chocolatejr9]

What happened to NiGHTS?

I remember seeing this character all of the time as a kid, but as of recent, I haven't heard anything regarding this IP in a very long time.

According to what I know, Sega decided to have Sonic Team focus solely on Sonic, which may or may not have something to do with the creators leaving.

If you're interested, those creators are working on Balan Wonderworld, which looks to be a spiritual successor to NiGHTS.

 

[Blankiturayman]

What happened to NiGHTS?

I remember seeing this character all of the time as a kid, but as of recent, I haven't heard anything regarding this IP in a very long time.

The last new game was Journey of Dreams on Wii, and since then it's been mostly re-releases of the original, so there's not much to say about it, I suppose. NiGHTS makes cameos in games sometimes, like the Sonic & SEGA racers. I've kind of hoped for a third game for a long while now but it seems to be just there.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The trouble with this statement is that ARMS technically did have some previous content: spirits and an assist trophy. If that was still enough to warrant a new DLC fighter, that technically doesn't mean the franchises used for DLC have to be completely distanced from the original game's content.

With the exception of PP, every DLC has to come with a stage and music. ARMS had neither in base, so even if a series has spirits and/or an AT, as long as there’s not already music/a stage of the series (or its individual installment like with Byleth) it’s fair game

 

[MooMew64]

It's always big brain time

Jokes aside I think it's gonna be between Cinderace and Toxtricity, both Pokemon are kinda pushed by TPC but in the end it's gonna come down to Sakurai choosing which one he thinks is more fun to develop.

I know some here would hate it but man, I'd love Cinderace. It's such a cool Pokemon.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Watch we do get a BotW2 character but its BotW Zelda meaning we have 3 Link's, 1 Ganondorf and now 3 Zelda's.

 

[Cosmic77]

Here's how the "new universe" rule has evolved.

"Only characters from unrepped franchises are eligible."
"Only characters from unrepped games are eligible."
"Only characters from games not repped on the roster are eligible."

I don't understand why people refuse to let this statement die and admit that it might've not meant anything. I mean, what's more likely? Sakurai carefully chose his words so all eleven DLC characters would apply to what he said, or Smash fans are overanalyzing an innocent quote that basically translates to, "I'm really excited to add more new content though DLC and make Smash even bigger than it already is."

 

[TwiceEXE]

Watch wr do get a BotW2 character but its BotW Zelda meaning we have 3 Link's, 1 Ganondorf and now 3 Zelda's.

I mean, Zelda and Ganon are basically the only options we could speculate on at this point in time.

 

[MooMew64]

Here's how the "new universe" rule has evolved.

"Only characters from unrepped franchises are eligible."
"Only characters from unrepped games are eligible."
"Only characters from games not repped on the roster are eligible."

I don't understand why people refuse to let this statement die and admit that it might've not meant anything. I mean, what's more likely? Sakurai carefully chose his words so all eleven DLC characters would apply to what he said, or Smash fans are overanalyzing an innocent quote that basically translates to, "I'm really excited to add more new content though DLC and make Smash even bigger than it already is."

No one is saying these characters are ineligible, we're simply acknowledging the trend DLC has had and saying with that in mind, they do not seem likely. Everything that has come has been something with either very little to no Smash presence what so-ever. And before Fire Emblem is brought up, as I previously said, Three Houses fits this: Fire Emblems are like Final Fantasy, most games are their own thing separated from the whole, and there was no TH content in Smash at all. That coupled with comments from Sakurai and Nintendo themselves on what their goals are for DLC, I don't think we're going to get another character from a game already well represented in Smash. They're seemingly looking at options that can bring in large batches of completely brand new content, which, every DLC character has fulfilled except for Plant, and I'd hardly say Plant counts when it was intended for base-game.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think the whole "new universe/worlds" thing has been improperly framed, though I don't necessarily blame any one person.

For Fighter Pass 1, each character came from a game or series that was not in the game previously in a significant way. Persona 5, Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie, Fatal Fury, and Fire Emblem Three Houses all managed this. This also fits with bringing in content that is "new"- even with Three Houses we got a character, stage, and set of music that previously wouldn't have been in the game.

Min Min is more similar to this than different- while ARMS had spirits, an AT, and mii costumes, it did not have a playable character, home stage, or a whole lineup of music. Each game or series that has come into Smash has contribute to this idea- each crossover brought in a lot of "new" content, with each character being directly tied to a particular game.

This is one reason why I could see Pokemon and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 getting content. Their mascot/protagonist isn't playable in Smash, there isn't a stage, and for Pokemon at least, there's no music from Sword & Shield. Xenoblade 2 has music in the game, but there are several great tracks that could still be added.

With Breath of the Wild 2, I find it mostly difficult to talk about it getting a character because, frankly, all we know is that Link, Zelda, and Dry Ganon are in it. We already have Link largely based on BOTW, and I don't think BOTW Zelda is...really in the running. I can't speak for anybody else, it seems like a 3rd version of a character is kinda...I don't know how people would feel about spending $5.99 on that, but that's just me. It's hard for me to support what is essentially "BOTW2 character" when I know nothing about their role, personality, abilities, or anything. The character has to have something to them beyond, "Is from Zelda", but again, that's just me.

In terms of BOTW 2 being a "new world/universe" I don't know that I agree. We already have BOTW, and BOTW2 is a direct sequel. I don't think that means a BOTW2 character is out or something, but it's a difficult thing to speculate when we know next to nothing about how interesting a pick from the game would be beyond, "Is Zelda".

I don't think a lack of a "new world" means a characters chances are dead in the water...I just think certain characters seem to fit the mold of the Challenger Packs better than others, while others seem to fit the mold of a base roster pick better.

There's also the fact that each pick has seemingly looked for new gameplay ideas that only those characters can do. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a gimmick all the time, but they want each pack to stand out (within reason and realizable for Smash), which is why I think that identity and ability might be underrated here. Sakurai did say that they brought new and unique gameplay in each pack, when he was reflecting at the end of Byleth's presentation, and he seemed to want to continue that. With Min Min, I would say it was continued, and I think that's probably going to be a continued focus.

I do think a focus on "new" content will continue, and that's something that has applied to DLC from Ryu to Byleth EXCEPT FOR Corrin, who came with only 2 songs iirc, and Piranha Plant who is a different case altogether.

Lastly, what I always think about with the current structure of Smash presentations and the characters people want is the fact that they're educational in nature with introducing the game/series they come from. When I look at Terry's presentation or even Byleth, it becomes difficult for me to see Sakurai saying to his audience, "What is Super Mario?" or "What is The Legend of Zelda" or "What is Kirby?". That structure doesn't fit those characters as well as well as it does series that are entirely new to Smash or are less well known in nature (For example, Fatal Fury or Fire Emblem). I've seen this rebutted with, "He doesn't have to do that for those characters" but then that's just making something up to fit the narrative, which I don't agree with. I don't think lacking a "new world" discredits a character but it's not hard to see the structure of FP1 and Min Min as not really fitting series with substantial content already.

 

[Calamitas]

Oh boy BotW2 character speculation? Oh, I'm so anxious to discuss Link 4, Zelda 3 and Ganondorf 2, surely something everyone would want to spend 5.99 on!

Can't wait to discuss the possibility of A Link to the Past coming to Smash for just 5.99!

 

[Cosmic77]

No one is saying these characters are ineligible, we're simply acknowledging the trend DLC has had and saying with that in mind, they do not seem likely. Everything that has come has been something with either very little to no Smash presence what so-ever. And before Fire Emblem is brought up, as I previously said, Three Houses fits this: Fire Emblems are like Final Fantasy, each game is it's own thing separated from the whole, and there was no TH content in Smash at all. That coupled with comments from Sakurai and Nintendo themselves on what their goals are for DLC, I don't think we're going to get another character from a game already well represented in Smash. They're seemingly looking at options that can bring in large batches of completely brand new content, which, every DLC character has fulfilled except for Plant, and I'd hardly say Plant counts when it was intended for base-game.

Call it a rule, an observation, a trend, a pattern, or some other fifth thing. The fact that people have had to rewrite this twice (and one right after the other might I add) tells me that it's not that reliable in the first place.

I'm not debating how likely a BotW2 character is, but I do think that this particular logic people are using to downplay its chances of getting a character are a little ridiculous. Feels like people are trying harder to explain how "new universes" can still work instead of dismissing it and finding other reasons why BotW2 wouldn't get a character.

 

[ZelDan]

The only way I see BotW2 getting a character in Smash is if it adds a character from past Zeldas to it that aren't already playable in Smash, like Impa. I highly doubt they are going to give us "Link 4, Zelda 3, or Ganondorf 2," and I don't feel confident they'd add a character original to BotW2 to Smash either.

 

[Koopaul]

I always interpreted "new worlds" to mean a package of content that's represents something new to Smash. This could be an entire series or a single game.

I strongly believe that all the fighters in the pass will be the representative for an entire series that doesn't have a stage or character or the representative for a single game that doesn't have a stage or character.

So look at a character and ask yourself if they fit into one of those two categories.

 

[MooMew64]

Call it a rule, an observation, a trend, a pattern, or some other fifth thing. The fact that people have had to rewrite this twice (and one right after the other might I add) tells me that it's not that reliable in the first place.

I'm not debating how likely a BotW2 character is, but I do think that this particular logic people are using to downplay its chances of getting a character are a little ridiculous. Feels like people are trying harder to explain how "new universes" can still work instead of dismissing it and finding other reasons why BotW2 wouldn't get a character.

These trends have all held true, though.

BotW also just doesn't have many, if any IMO, viable candidates that could bring a ton of content we don't already have. Which character would it be? What music would they bring? The stage? Spirits? How does their moveset and playstyle differ from what's already presented with our current Zelda lineup, to continue on what Sakurai stated he wanted to do: Bring in characters with new play styles not present in Smash.

I'm not trying to downplay BotW to be mean or handwave it, I just genuinely doubt there's really a high chance it'll get more content in the form of a $5.99 pack. All of our DLC has brought in a wealth of brand new content not already present, I just honestly doubt BotW has that much more to give when Link is the major player there and we already have him.

Nintendo is seemingly prioritizing things that are new: Bringing in new audiences or using these additions as potential methods of advertising. Not to mention our DLC has been focusing on major playable characters and protagonists from these new franchises and games. Unless BotW shakes something up and offers something new on that front, I think its biggest hurdle is as I said above: Who would it even be?

 

[Cosmic77]

I always interpreted "new worlds" to mean a package of content that's represents something new to Smash. This could be an entire series or a single game.

I strongly believe that all the fighters in the pass will be the representative for an entire series that doesn't have a stage or character or the representative for a single game that doesn't have a stage or character.

So look at a character and ask yourself if they fit into one of those two categories.

I guess that's the easiest way to break it down. The character and stage will be the biggest part of the bundle, so anything that lacks either of those things should have a significantly better chance.

These trends have all held true, though.

BotW also just doesn't have many, if any IMO, viable candidates that could bring a ton of content we don't already have. Which character would it be? What music would they bring? The stage? Spirits? How does their moveset and playstyle differ from what's already presented with our current Zelda lineup, to continue on what Sakurai stated he wanted to do: Bring in characters with new play styles not present in Smash.

I'm not trying to downplay BotW to be mean or handwave it, I just genuinely doubt there's really a high chance it'll get more content in the form of a $5.99 pack. All of our DLC has brought in a wealth of brand new content not already present, I just honestly doubt BotW has that much more to give when Link is the major player there and we already have him.

Nintendo is seemingly prioritizing things that are new: Bringing in new audiences or using these additions as potential methods of advertising. Not to mention our DLC has been focusing on major playable characters and protagonists from these new franchises and games. Unless BotW shakes something up and offers something new on that front, I think its biggest hurdle is as I said above: Who would it even be?

To be fair, all of this is being applied to a game that's only received a short teaser trailer in the past year or so.

How would you know whether or not BotW2 is capable of delivering enough new and unique material for a character bundle?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

We discussing adding alternate Zelda characters?

Also I really don't think people would be upset about getting another Triforce user, people are just burned out on adding Links. I hear more complaints about Shiek being an artifact of an older game than her being in Smash just because she's Zelda, and Toon Ganondorf was a popular request during Brawl/Smash 4.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I always interpreted "new worlds" to mean a package of content that's represents something new to Smash. This could be an entire series or a single game.

I strongly believe that all the fighters in the pass will be the representative for an entire series that doesn't have a stage or character or the representative for a single game that doesn't have a stage or character.

So look at a character and ask yourself if they fit into one of those two categories.

I can agree with this. I believe as speculators, it's hard not to cling onto the literal meaning of statements because we don't have knowledge of the relevant variables that dictate a character's inclusion; we can only analyze patterns and conclude from there.

Sakurai, nor Nintendo, has never gone into detail about what exactly "new worlds" can mean, because the term itself is rather vague unless you're strictly looking at it at face value. And looking at "new worlds" at face value, as others in this thread have pointed out, has validated past observations of Smash DLC criteria.

I believe thinking like this can lead to more close-minded conversations because it allows people to forget the times where statements taken literally have proven false, like the whole Ridley debacle. But up to this point, nothing has disproved the idea that "new worlds" means literally just that. I am keeping an open mind, however, because I do believe there's a possibility where Sakurai's statement may have been over-analyzed and well-thought out patterns may just be mere coincidence, but right now we don't know, so I'm waiting for more FP2 characters to be announced to take a definitive stance on the subject.

Discussions such as these is what makes speculating so much fun and engaging.

 

[SharkLord]

View attachment 283428
We discussing adding alternate Zelda characters?

Also I really don't think people would be upset about getting another Triforce user, people are just burned out on adding Links. I hear more complaints about Shiek being an artifact of an older game than her being in Smash just because she's Zelda, and Toon Ganondorf was a popular request during Brawl/Smash 4.

Beast Ganon, I'd be completely fine with because he'd look and play much differently from Gerudo Ganondorf. It's just that there isn't much he could bring with him, unless we're doing bonus fighters now.

 

[Nightguything]

Zelda reps?

The only acceptable answer:

 

[RetroBro]

No one is saying these characters are ineligible, we're simply acknowledging the trend DLC has had and saying with that in mind, they do not seem likely. Everything that has come has been something with either very little to no Smash presence what so-ever. And before Fire Emblem is brought up, as I previously said, Three Houses fits this: Fire Emblems are like Final Fantasy, most games are their own thing separated from the whole, and there was no TH content in Smash at all. That coupled with comments from Sakurai and Nintendo themselves on what their goals are for DLC, I don't think we're going to get another character from a game already well represented in Smash. They're seemingly looking at options that can bring in large batches of completely brand new content, which, every DLC character has fulfilled except for Plant, and I'd hardly say Plant counts when it was intended for base-game.

You can't move the goal posts for FE as if it's a special exception. They are part of the same franchise regardless of how you look at them. Disregarding Ultimate's DLC Sakurai continued to flesh out old repped franchises by adding K Rool/Ridley/Pokemon ect ect. Seems like there's probably room for a few already repped franchises to have DLC characters.

Given the trend that most trends are just artificial speculation (often proven wrong as time goes on), I'd go as far as to say that it's as likely to get a character from an old franchise that is already repped as there is a new franchise to get a character that isn't repped yet.

I didn't even know this was a "trend" to argue about. Seems like a scenario where everyone screamed from the mountain top "No spirit DLC!" and then vanished then pretended they never said it.