Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

In Joker's video, it has the E10+ rating despite Persona 5 being rated M.

That’s probably because XI S is coming to Switch while P5R isn’t

yet...

 

[Dust319]

Dragon Quest 11 is T for Teen, so it's likely for that, since it was advertised there.

That makes sense. This was 1 part Smash infomercial and 1 part Dragon Quest ad.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Here's a topic changer: Which 3rd Party Characters do you think will return to a hypothetical Smash 6?

My guesses are Sonic, PAC-MAN, maybe Bayonetta, and Ryu.

I think the only ones that might get booted are the ones from Konami, Square and Microsoft - but that's only if these companies have a problem with it and no longer wish to cooperate. Otherwise, I see little reason to cut them.

The one exception to this is Joker - depending on how his series goes, he might get replaced by someone else from Persona or Megaten.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Which video?

Mr. Sakurai Presents Hero video

 

[LemonBoy65]

Here's a topic changer: Which 3rd Party Characters do you think will return to a hypothetical Smash 6?

My guesses are Sonic, PAC-MAN, maybe Bayonetta, and Ryu.

Highly likely to return: Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, Mega Man, Bayonetta, Joker
Might return: Banjo-Kazooie, Hero, Snake, Simon
Likely to not return: Cloud

 

[Izanagi97]

Does anyone else have the feeling that The Hero is ridiculously OP...

On one hand, Crits and Command spells look pretty damn strong, on the other hand, said attacks look pretty telegraphed and the Hero doesn't look to be a particularly fast character in terms of movement (air speed seems low and run speed seems average if not below average) though we'll know the specifics of that when we get his params

 

[Door Key Pig]

Dark Souls isn't really character driven(or rather not in the same way the other series you mentioned), Crash is admittedly a big deal but his resurgence is kind of a new thing and overall his series is a bit smaller than RE , and DoomGuy is...well, I'll be honest DoomGuy's only become popular after the 2016 incarnation of him made him give zero ****s. Before that I'm not even sure people really viewed him as his own character.

IDK, Crash's resurgence was in the same year Dragon Quest 11 came out and when Persona 5 was released overseas, right?

 

[N3ON]

In Joker's video, it has the E10+ rating despite Persona 5 being rated M.

Persona 5 wasn't directly advertised. Sakurai took a moment to market DQ11S, which is new for third-parties. Probably was Square's doing.

 

[Us3inMN]

Highly likely to return: Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, Mega Man, Bayonetta, Joker
Might return: Banjo-Kazooie, Hero, Snake, Simon
Likely to not return: Cloud

Cloud definitely won't return, Snake probably won't come back, and Hero probably won't come back either.
I would also guess that Banjo will stay considering how buddy buddy Nintendo and Microsoft are.

 

[MrElectroG64]

Hey guys, just posting this here because I don’t know where else to post it. It’s a image for a “hypothetical” echo fighter pass (even though spirited characters are there, this was more for fun). I’ll be making more echo pass images in the future, in fact I have a second one coming already.

What do you guys think?

 

[Deleted member]

Okay so you don’t find it weird that historically based or characters based on other media are in smash, despite that not being the case thus far?

Only if Sakurai makes his own version of a historical figure and not base it off of a certain franchise. If the new idea of Smash is to make it about a Video Game Crossover, making a fighter out of someone like Nobunaga Oda and not basing him from any video game franchises he's in is a bad idea because then he isn't the video game version that people would recognize from and ends up being an Smash OC entirely.

Okay cool, so where’s Goku? Or how about the Zenomorph from Aliens? Or how about we add Batman from the Arkham games? How about Abe Lincoln from Project STEAM?

Multiple companies own various properties (characters, music, artwork, etc.) of Dragon Ball, Aliens, and Batman which is why they would never be able to be in Smash even if Sakurai wanted them to be. Not to mention putting any of them in would be very costly for Nintendo.

Henry Fleming was the only spirit from Code Name STEAM, and considering not many franchises in the "other" category have more than 1 spirit, I don't think the people behind adding spirits to Ultimate didn't put Abe Lincoln in because of who he is but because no one from that game was going to become a fighter and only Henry best represents the game as a spirit.

My point is, I do not see any of the Dynasty Warriors or Samurai Warriors characters as “video game characters,” because I am familiar with the historical references and source material. Having any of them appear in Smash Brothers as a video game all-star would feel weird to me, as I think it would to several others, because they were people first and in video games later.

I don't feel as bothered by it. The characters and events that occur in the story may not have originated from a video game, but Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors originated as video game franchises and are not held under licensing. If we look at Dragon Ball and Batman, they're series I don't associate with video games because their origins go far beyond video games from comics/mangas to TV shows and movies. I don't consider Rocksteady's Batman to be a video game character because the origins of the series is from the comics and not video games. However, I don't feel the same way for Koei's version of Zhao Yun because while he is a person that existed in real life and based off of an old novel, Dynasty Warriors debuted as a video game first. Adding a character from that game to Smash isn't going be offputting because I'm willing to bet a lot more people will associate someone like Zhao Yun with Dynasty Warriors way more than the novel itself and the history of the Three Kingdoms era.

 

[Deleted member]

Mii costume theory is in a weird place now, its not disproven as the fact that the Hero only had DQ costumes still shows that the content we are getting is closely related to the company. Still its weird the absence of Chovobo Hat and Geno costume.

Really the only difference in the outcome today is that it opens the possibility of not all of the Mii costumes returning. After all we got a similar amount of costumes with Joker who only got 2 Persona costumes, 2 hats and 2 returning costumes from Sonic. Now we are getting 4 new costumes plus a hat.

Persona 5 wasn't directly advertised. Sakurai took a moment to market DQ11S, which is new for third-parties. Probably was Square's doing.

Given that Nintendo has stakes on the title, I wouldn't doubt Nintendo being involved as well. It seems like they are trying to push it again like always since its pretty much a series really close to Nintendo.

 

[KingBroly]

I'm preparing for there to be another datamine leak and/or quirk that points to who the final two DLC characters are.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Still its weird the absence of Chovobo Hat and Geno costume.

I'm betting on it being because they're from Square rather than Enix.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm preparing for there to be another datamine leak and/or quirk that points to who the final two DLC characters are.

I hope so. Even better if they are
-fighter_kind_mystery
-fighter_kind_who_can_it_be

 

[cmbsfm]

I'm preparing for there to be another datamine leak and/or quirk that points to who the final two DLC characters are.

There’s probably gonna be nothing but I hope for a vague code name that we can debate on for months on end lol.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I hope so. Even better if they are
-fighter_kind_mystery
-fighter_kind_who_can_it_be

Have more than two fighter codenames. Let people fight over whether it means we get another , a bonus fighter is in the works, or it's just a red herring.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm preparing for there to be another datamine leak and/or quirk that points to who the final two DLC characters are.

I'm interested in seeing what BK's codename is since they were simultaneously worked on alongside Joker and Hero.

With Plant's being Pakkun, Joker's being Jack, and Hero's being Brave, the current guesses I have for Banjo-Kazooie's codename are Bear, Rare, and Jigsaw (because of the puzzle piece).

 

[TheCJBrine]

I hope so. Even better if they are
-fighter_kind_mystery
-fighter_kind_who_can_it_be

oh my gosh Scooby and Shaggy are gonna be our first non-videogame characters. hype

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Watch the last two codenames for the final two be SOUL and CRATE.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

My dream: fighter_kind_hilbert and fighter_kind_jaguar

 

[Guynamednelson]

My dream: fighter_kind_hilbert and fighter_kind_jaguar

Unova Pokemon Trainer and King from Tekken confirmed.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Honestly the rest of the codenames may just actually be their names/literal translations like Hero's.

Watch the last two codenames for the final two be SOUL and CRATE.

Frisk confirmed.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Frisk confirmed.

Actually I was trying to lean more towards Nightmare due to Soul Edge and the title Soulcalibur but guess that works too. ;P

 

[GoodGrief741]

There’s probably gonna be nothing but I hope for a vague code name that we can debate on for months on end lol.

Brave was guessed near instantly, so I'd hope for something like that.

Inb4 we get something obvious like "Hell" or "Virus" and people still complain that speculation's in a boring rut.

 

[Dust319]

Only if Sakurai makes his own version of a historical figure and not base it off of a certain franchise. If the new idea of Smash is to make it about a Video Game Crossover, making a fighter out of someone like Nobunaga Oda and not basing him from any video game franchises he's in is a bad idea because then he isn't the video game version that people would recognize from and ends up being an Smash OC entirely.


Multiple companies own various properties (characters, music, artwork, etc.) of Dragon Ball, Aliens, and Batman which is why they would never be able to be in Smash even if Sakurai wanted them to be. Not to mention putting any of them in would be very costly for Nintendo.

Henry Fleming was the only spirit from Code Name STEAM, and considering not many franchises in the "other" category have more than 1 spirit, I don't think the people behind adding spirits to Ultimate didn't put Abe Lincoln in because of who he is but because no one from that game was going to become a fighter and only Henry best represents the game as a spirit.


I don't feel as bothered by it. The characters and events that occur in the story may not have originated from a video game, but Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors originated as video game franchises and are not held under licensing. If we look at Dragon Ball and Batman, they're series I don't associate with video games because their origins go far beyond video games from comics/mangas to TV shows and movies. I don't consider Rocksteady's Batman to be a video game character because the origins of the series is from the comics and not video games. However, I don't feel the same way for Koei's version of Zhao Yun because while he is a person that existed in real life and based off of an old novel, Dynasty Warriors debuted as a video game first. Adding a character from that game to Smash isn't going be offputting because I'm willing to bet a lot more people will associate someone like Zhao Yun with Dynasty Warriors way more than the novel itself and the history of the Three Kingdoms era.

Agree to disagree then.
My speculation is that due to ties with the novels etc we should not expect any Musou Warriors.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Unova Pokemon Trainer and King from Tekken confirmed.

I was aiming more for KOS-MOS (the Hilbert Effect from Xenosaga) and Elma (Full Metal Jaguar)

 

[Flyboy]

With how well they scrubbed the patch last time, I feel that we won't get any new info or codenames. But I'd love to be wrong.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

My dream: fighter_kind_hilbert and fighter_kind_jaguar

Bold of Nintendo to add the Atari Jaguar as a playable fighter

I swear if one of the code names is fighter_kind_determined or fighter_kind_sandwich I will loose my mind

 

[Izanagi97]

I'm just waiting for the Hero's Params

 

[Flyboy]

It's really interesting because the codenames have either been character name permutations (Pakkun), their actual name (Brave), codenames (Jack), or REALLY good codenames (Arsene being labeled Doyle).

We really don't know what to expect if anything shows up.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I know people have a knee jerk reaction to random elements in multiplayer games

It's not really knee jerk. It's a pretty reasonable argument.

Competitive play is supposed to be a test of player skill. If you can win or lose based on what a randomized ability does, it's not really testing your skill.

Competitive players want chess, not roulette.

Legend of Zelda, Fire Emblem, Persona 5, and Dragon Quest

What do all 4 franchises have in common?

They all have a Musou game

And you know who ELSE is in a Musou game?

 

[N3ON]

I haven't played as him yet, so this is just from what I've seen in the video, but a character you won't be able to reliably utilize to their optimal extent unless you simply are consistently lucky does sound to me to be of questionable design. I know Hero isn't the first character with an RNG move, but his is definitely a much larger part of his kit than past instances. I mean his "gimmick", so to speak, is randomness.

That said, I'm certainly no pro, and I don't even have online - so I personally am not bothered. But I understand the criticism, should the character pan out as people are anticipating.

 

[Us3inMN]

I love how everyone debates over DLC when in the end anything can happen because Sakurai is f**king insane.

 

[Captain Fun]

I haven't played as him yet, so this is just from what I've seen in the video, but a character you won't be able to reliably utilize to their optimal extent unless you simply are consistently lucky does sound to me to be of questionable design. I know Hero isn't the first character with an RNG move, but his is definitely a much larger part of his kit than past instances. I mean his "gimmick", so to speak, is randomness.

That said, I'm certainly no pro, and I don't even have online - so I personally am not bothered. But I understand the criticism, should the character pan out as people are anticipating.

Ignoring his down special, his kit is really reliable and fun to use. I only go into the command menu when I’ve got downtime or enough of a lead to take a risk.

Randomness is definitely part of his kit though. Getting put to sleep in mid air and then critical’d and KO’d at 20% as Wolf is both hilarious and tragic.

It's not really knee jerk. It's a pretty reasonable argument.

Competitive play is supposed to be a test of player skill. If you can win or lose based on what a randomized ability does, it's not really testing your skill.

Competitive players want chess, not roulette.

Thats fair. I’ve said before that this character is probably not what the competitive scene wants.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

When should we expect any inevitable leaked datamining? Tomorrow perhaps? Wonder what codenames we'll see.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

When should we expect any inevitable leaked datamining? Tomorrow perhaps? Wonder what codenames we'll see.

tomorrow I guess

 

[Nquoid]

If there is a data mine I imagine itll be a different sort to the last one. This community is obsessive, but Sakurai's team isnt going to mess up in the same way twice.

But they are only human, so there might be some other leftover content, I just don't think itll be codenames again.

 

[osby]

It's not really knee jerk. It's a pretty reasonable argument.

Competitive play is supposed to be a test of player skill. If you can win or lose based on what a randomized ability does, it's not really testing your skill.

Competitive players want chess, not roulette.

If competitive players really wanted chess, they'd all be playing as the same character, not 80 different ones with their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Smash always had some RNG as is. Or at least was designed with it in mind.

Of course having way too much is a reasonable issue for competitive play. That's why Items aren't on for major tourneys, namely ones with prizes. Well, non-Nintendo ones at least. Hero is something that needs to be tested to see if it would cause issues in the first place. I mean, we tested Items and Stages before banning specific ones.

Though I wish Mii Fighters got proper testing before a ban. Many didn't want to test out specific builds to find a balanced one for tourneys to use. I can get where part of the issue is, namely the Weight differences. That's a lot more to test than simply what custom moves might be OP. Likewise, stuff like 1111 doesn't work for them. It sucks for Palutena too, but she does have a true default moveset(her mechanic was even removed in Ultimate).