Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Mushroomguy12]

I think you mean this image.

Crime doesn't pay.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Crime doesn't pay

What Dante didn't know was he was gonna be the next character after Min Min.

This action costed him his chance to be in and as punishment resorted to a Mii costume.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Nate is actually saying "It may make you cry" because this character will, in fact, cause some complaints. Which, since this is the Smash community, makes it impossible to boil down who this character is.

Easy: a Gen 8 Pokemon. We've been over this before.

Crime doesn't pay.

And that's the story of why James Bond was scrapped from Melee.

James Bond does steal invitations, right? I never watched the movies.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Nate is actually saying "It may make you cry" because this character will, in fact, cause some complaints. Which, since this is the Smash community, makes it impossible to boil down who this character is.

Once Baby Mario is inexplicably revealed as Fighter 7, we'll all kick ourselves for missing the obvious crying clue.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

"This direct will make you cry"

Ninten confirmed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQUN7QAnMp0&feature=youtu.be

 

[Calamitas]

I think you mean this image.

Ayyk92? Wasn't that also the artist who made the original Bowsette comic?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Dante also really should had switched Byleth's name to his in the invite when he had the chance.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Ayyk92? Wasn't that also the artist who made the original Bowsette comic?

You mean to say "The mistake" right?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

What Dante didn't know was he was gonna be the next character after Min Min.

This action costed him his chance to be in and as punishment resorted to a Mii costume.

Sakurai then decided to select a more law abiding citizen as the Capcom rep instead.

 

[SNEKeater]

Devil May Cry 4 port announcement in the Direct maybe?

That is actually a fairly likely announcement for the next Direct if you ask me. The Switch should be able to run DMC4SE without problems.

 

[Schnee117]

Sakurai then decided to use a more law abiding citizen as the Capcom rep instead.

Sorry, he got disbarred for forging evidence in April last year

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Aight but look, if the character somehow, someway ended up being Prince of Persia I would be over the moon.

My favorite Prince design is actually from the one game where he was nearly entirely ambiguous to the plot.

Prince of Persia ‘08

Prince of Persia ‘08 is what many consider the Black Sheep of the PoP games and it’s for a reason. The game hails back to its earlier counterparts focusing FAR less in combat and more on traversal and exploration. This adds up to a more Journey feel to the game as compared to The Sands of Times more action game approach. It’s one of my favorite games of the last Generation and so severely underrated.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You mean to say "The mistake" right?

Nah, that's not descriptive enough. It could mean just about anything, like Bruxish, or cereal with the milk first.

 

[snowgolem]

Sakurai then decided to select a more law abiding citizen as the Capcom rep instead.

let’s get a poggers in the chat for our boy

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I will say that the 08 Prince of Persia isn't quite the blackest of sheep for the franchise:

Spoiler

Every IP needs the equivalent of the weird uncle they don't like to talk about, I guess.

 

[cosmicB]

Edit: Deleted after seeing the mod post. I really should actually read the thread further before I write responses when logging on for the first time of the day.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Easy: a Gen 8 Pokemon. We've been over this before.

Nope, the character could come from a series with 10 fighters or 0, have debuted in 2019 or 1985, be a cartoon animal or an anime swordsman or neither. We are the Smash community. Wherever we are, we must also complain.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sakurai then decided to select a more law abiding citizen as the Capcom rep instead.

Worth it.

 

[7NATOR]

I've heard that as well. Also, my speculation is that Nintendo has really tightened down the bolts on Smash to prevent leaks because we haven't gotten much of anything since Banjo (Terry was a blunder by Nintendo).

Being Honest, I can believe the main reason Hero and Banjo were heard so much is it's a Carry over from Base game Speculation. Remember when during the base game speculation there were rumors of a 2nd Rep from Square, along with Minecraft Content coming to Smash. Even when DLC went into Production (which means less people are involved, than with Base game) the Rumors carried over

From FP1 to FP2, there's not that type of Transition, so I expect less leaks, unless it's a couple days within a Reveal of the new character

 

[Mr. Game + Watch]

Not my meme but I find this very close to what I feel when trying to get people to discuss crazy Dave. Lol

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sorry, he got disbarred for forging evidence in April last year

Ah but then a certain wolf goddess took his place as well.

Still worth it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ah but then a certain wolf goddess took his place as well.

Then they said "nah, let's add something with a better history", and went with Arthur instead.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So the Dante stuff was a ruse huh?

 

[MooMew64]

Phoenix Wright would make me so gosh dang happy but I really do feel if Capcom's getting another fighter, it's gonna be Dante. IMO, there's just too much going in his favor for me to believe they'd pick anyone else at this point. Plus, Ace Attorney seems to not be a huge priority for Capcom ATM while Devil May Cry has been pushed super hard on Switch so far with ports of all the old games and interviews acknowledging the requests for Smash.

Time will tell, but I honestly would be legit floored if we get another Capcom rep and it isn't Dante.

I would absolutely love Phoenix though Sakurai pls.

 

[SNEKeater]

Amaterasu would be fantastic. Imagine an Okami stage, that could be PERFECTION.

Also we need this beautiful song in Smash. Seriously, one of the best themes I've heard in a videogame.

 

[7NATOR]

Seeing as how they Added Goemon as a Fan Costume (and his Support was more niche than alot of characters) I'm Pretty Sure Dante and Phoenix will be in the game in Some form (Probably not just Spirit Events either) and Probably Viewtiful Joe

That's as far as I'm gonna go guess though.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Seeing as how they Added Goemon as a Fan Costume (and his Support was more niche than alot of characters) I'm Pretty Sure Dante and Phoenix will be in the game in Some form (Probably not just Spirit Events either) and Probably Viewtiful Joe

That's as far as I'm gonna go guess though.

Oh wasn’t there a twitter exchange between Kamiya and Sakurai about viewtiful joe? And didn’t Sakurai say something like “hmmm...”?

makes me think either a spirit event or costume is in the cards for Viewtiful Joe at least

 

[snowgolem]

Capcom Cafe’s Ace Attorney theme ends today. If we truly are getting a direct in the next week, then that means the Capcom Cafe theme could’ve been used to get people talking about Ace Attorney before a certain reveal, as games have gotten revealed during Capcom Cafe themes before. So it could either be an Ace Attorney game, which could still lead to Phoenix in Smash, or just Phoenix in Smash.
Combine that with all the evidence which has always applied, like Phoenix being primarily on Nintendo consoles, and you’ve made yourself a good case for our Turnabout Attorney.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Amaterasu would be fantastic. Imagine an Okami stage, that could be PERFECTION.

More than anything I would love to see how they would integrate Ōkami's oil painting artstyle with Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's water color artstyle. I imagine the results would be phenomenal.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Capcom Cafe’s Ace Attorney theme ends today. If we truly are getting a direct in the next week, then that means the Capcom Cafe theme could’ve been used to get people talking about Ace Attorney before a certain reveal, as games have gotten revealed during Capcom Cafe themes before. So it could either be an Ace Attorney game, which could still lead to Phoenix in Smash, or just Phoenix in Smash.
Combine that with all the evidence which has always applied, like Phoenix being primarily on Nintendo consoles, and you’ve made yourself a good case for our Turnabout Attorney.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what's Capcom Cafe?

 

[7NATOR]

Oh wasn’t there a twitter exchange between Kamiya and Sakurai about viewtiful joe? And didn’t Sakurai say something like “hmmm...”?

makes me think either a spirit event or costume is in the cards for Viewtiful Joe at least

kamiya: ma-kun... what about joe...??
sakurai: uuuuhhhhhmmmm.... pic.twitter.com/v7OHmCT0eq

— pereden @ ff14 vortex (@perepereden) June 12, 2019

This right here. And I have seen some support for Viewtiful Joe Support even since Brawl. the Guy who made One of the best Brawl Shadow mods ever, and Worked on Knuckles for Project M has Viewfiful Joe as his Most wanted

Plus I think he'll work really good as a Mii Costume

 

[M@R!3]

Oh wasn’t there a twitter exchange between Kamiya and Sakurai about viewtiful joe? And didn’t Sakurai say something like “hmmm...”?

makes me think either a spirit event or costume is in the cards for Viewtiful Joe at least

Could've sworn that was about Wonder Red.

Edit: Guess not. Where did I get that from?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Phoenix Wright would make me so gosh dang happy but I really do feel if Capcom's getting another fighter, it's gonna be Dante. IMO, there's just too much going in his favor for me to believe they'd pick anyone else at this point. Plus, Ace Attorney seems to not be a huge priority for Capcom ATM while Devil May Cry has been pushed super hard on Switch so far with ports of all the old games and interviews acknowledging the requests for Smash.

Time will tell, but I honestly would be legit floored if we get another Capcom rep and it isn't Dante.

I would absolutely love Phoenix though Sakurai pls.

A Capcom rep not getting any DLC at all would be probably the biggest surprise to me given the sheer embarrassment of riches at their disposal. Its a telling sign that they could not have anyone for DLC from the most semi-relevant contemporary franchises:

-Street Fighter
-Resident Evil
-Monster Hunter
-Mega Man
-Devil May Cry
-Phoenix Wright
-Dead Rising
-Onimusha

...And they could still put in any number known characters (Amaterasu, Bionic Commando, Viewtiful Joe, Final Fight cast) in as a Fighter.

 

[snowgolem]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what's Capcom Cafe?

Cafe in Japan based on Capcom games, occasionally has themes to where the menu and decor changes to match a specific series, and these themes have lined up with game announcements in the past

 

[ShrimpScampi]

Sorry, he got disbarred for forging evidence in April last year

Then he can probably forge a Smash invite and it'll be fiiiiine. Joker stole one, so Phoenix can get away with a little forgery

Aight but look, if the character somehow, someway ended up being Prince of Persia I would be over the moon.

My favorite Prince design is actually from the one game where he was nearly entirely ambiguous to the plot.
View attachment 282763
Prince of Persia ‘08

Prince of Persia ‘08 is what many consider the Black Sheep of the PoP games and it’s for a reason. The game hails back to its earlier counterparts focusing FAR less in combat and more on traversal and exploration. This adds up to a more Journey feel to the game as compared to The Sands of Times more action game approach. It’s one of my favorite games of the last Generation and so severely underrated.

Prince of Persia '08 is such an interesting game for me, where I find it flawed but probably my most enjoyable experience with a Prince of Persia game nonetheless. I love its visuals and music, but wish the combat was a little better. I was impressed by the direction they took with the ending, but then the DLC epilogue backpedaled on it completely (and then it got a sequel on the DS that solidified the epilogue as canon). And I absolutely love the '08 design for the Prince, and would love to see that design appear in Smash, even if only as an alt.

 

[Firox]

Welp, might as well throw my hat in the ring.

To put it bluntly, I'm holding pretty much everyone accountable. On one hand, Fatman is not the devil incarnate, or the creature from the deep, or whatever comparisons we're using today. He's just a guy, and if I'm going to be honest he seems pretty chill. He should be able to go wherever without getting bullied off the thread.

On the other hand, there's the whole issue about the supposed insider info. When you claim to have that kind of info, you'll be held under much greater scrutiny. If you keep getting things wrong despite the supposed insider info, your credibility will tank. Goes for everyone, really. Acting all high and mighty about one of your guesses won't help either, no matter how much of an ***hole other people are. You can throw out a guess and go "Hey, I was right. Sweet!" without the "I know everything" attitude.

Part of the leaker issue isn't even Fatman's fault anyways; He can't control what the Geno thread does. It's not his fault that some people take his predictions as fact, even after he stresses that it's just theorycraft. In general, the thread gets a bit ahead of itself at times. Once someone there pretty much told me "**** off, we wanna speculate!" for daring to give my opinion on one little thing that may or may not mean anything. The blockade against any form of negativity lets confirmation bias take hold, and Fatman's word becomes the gospel, even after he stresses that he's just guessing. Doesn't help that he's oh-so smug bout getting things right even though he's just speculating. He'd got insider info so he's obviously true, but he's just guessing so he can't be held accountable.

What I'm saying is, both sides should just drop the aggression and just speculate together. That's the entire point of an online forum, right?

No, no, you're fine. Sitting around doing nothing won't get us anywhere; If we don't deal with this issuewe'll have to deal with this needless petty bull**** until the SmashBoards train crashes and burns. Let's get this out of the way now and be done with it.

Thank you for being the voice of reason here. I totally agree with both your points. Sure, Fatman has a knack for playing the "I'm just 'speculating' even though I might actually know something wink*wink" game, but that really doesn't give all the hyper-sarcastic elitists around here license to slander the guy every chance they get. We're all here to speculate (I hope), so let's just speculate. You don't want to believe the stuff Fatman says? Good for you, don't, if that's what you want. I, for one, am VERY skeptical of Fatman's predictions since tons of them haven't really panned out, but guess what? I still find them interesting to discuss, especially when things are slow and boring, so how about we drop the condescending horse **** and just theory craft like good boys and girls?

EDIT: Whoops, looks like I replied to a relatively older post and we already moved on. Good for us!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

oh yeah here's that AndreGX Geno thing I mentioned earlier:

Nintendo Direct Speculation |OT10| Bakugan with the Wind OT

I could totally believe it being Super Mario Gallery as the title and them making it to be a museum theme of the series. Still think it's fake but cool idea.

www.resetera.com

He is! In Fighter Pack 7

it was later made known that he was teasing iirc

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Cool, I mean it's nice to hear but under what authority is this person speaking from? Just observation? I'm very unfamiliar with what 5chan is btw, a japanese message board for Japan?

My posts about Japanese Smash speculation scenes are nothing but just observations. So please don't take them too seriously.


With that being said, I'm posting my observation of recent Japanese speculations.

There are mainly 4 big clusters of speculators in Japan now.

A, 5chan speculation threads.
B, Nico Nico Douga and Nico Nico Pedia.
C, Musekinin Otoko and his followers on Twitter.
D, YouTube channels especially TTC1266 and their comment sections.
and E, other random speculators here and there on Twitter, YouTube, and their own blogs.

I can't really tell which is the biggest portion. They are about the same I think.

Spoiler: 5chan

5chan (former 2chan) is the equivalent of 4chan in West.
They are always gathering information overseas. The disscussions they have aren't that different from Smashboards, Gamefaqs, or ResetEra. They talk everyday about Japanese picks and seeking for any trace of evidence so they can be confident on their characters but their disscussions tend to end with negative notes saying "think for the West".
Most talked about characters recently are Arle, Monster Hunter, Reimu, Rex, Cinderace. In order. Sometimes Crash, Hayabusa and Tales rep.
I see Arle is their genuine want. Her name keeps coming back everyday even though they are surprisingly pessimistic about her. Nagoshi insulted Puyo players hit them hard too. The CCO's attitude towards the franchise isn't the best sign for Smash negotiations. Monster Hunter, about the same as Arle.
Cinderace, many of them are thinking that they'll get a Gen 8 pokemon. I don't really see people acutially wanting pokemon, but their minds are stuck with Cinderace mainly because of the Anime I think.
Rex, also their favourite, but I see a lot of counter arguments saying that he might requires too much worktime to develop when you compare to other swordsman so probably not coming since the sales of FP2 will inevitably decrease over time. One thing I noticed is that 5chan people talk about development costs a lot. This is one of the reasons they are low-key about Arle despite the amount of talks for her.
Reimu. Very controversial. The evaluation of the character is polarized just like here. The opinions of the people think she's a viable contender are mostly coming from Touhous' recent presence among kids in Japan. The main counter argument for her is the numbers. She doesn't have official data to judge anything objectively.
Not much talks about Crash, but still I can say he is popular in 5chan. The main concern for him is wheter Sakurai can manage to get the Japanese design of him or not. Some are saying if he can't have that look then no. His situation there is more like Pac-man or Banjo. Hayabusa not so much. He's kind just a "leak" character. I don't see genuine wants for him really. Maybe Dante has more wants than him. Not many Capcom talks btw other than Monster Hunter. People there already gave up for Phoenix Wright since main staffs are all gone and Capcom is not caring about the franchise anymore.
Tales rep. Lloyd is the contender because of the West. Yuri, Cress, Alphen as counters. Not so much interests from them when you compared to the top 5 talked about characters.
And Geno. I'm sure his fans exist because I see Geno want posts time to time but no one really talks about him. Actually, I see more posts saying that they just want SMRPG music not another Mario character.

Spoiler: Nico Nico

Speculates on video formats, comments on them, and thread on Nico Nico Pedia.
Character names pop up here are very diversified. I couldn't find any trends like 5chan has.
However, I only see Steve as repeated names for Western character. Puyo Puyo and Monster Hunter of course, and other titles like Pawapuro, Momotaro Dentetsu, Super Robot Wars, Disgaea, Quiz Magic Academy, Y's, Trails series, Taiko no Tatsujin, Shiren the Wanderer, Atelier, Idolmaster, Dynasty Warriors, Hyperdimension Neptunia, Sakura Wars, Granblue Fantasy, I see them a lot more often and repeatedly then Western forums.
Touhou and Fate reps show up frequently as wll as pure wants and seems like people are pretty cool about them not like in 5chan. Maybe Fate is not really, but Touhou is for sure. Tales rep has a variety. Cress and Yuri are the top 2, Lloyd and Asbel about the same, then Ludger, Velvet, Alphen, Luke, Stahn.
Nintendo characters like Magolor, Banadana Dee, Octoling, Paper Mario, Rex, Elma, Akira Howard has presence. Not many Crash from Nico Nico Pedia which surprises me. Seems like Crash and Geno are coming more from the content creators of Nico Nico Douga who are much more older than people in Nico Nico Pedia.

Spoiler: Musekinin Otoko

He is a speculator on Twitter who has some cult followers for some reason. I called him the equivalent of Fatmanonice in the Japanese scene, but he doesn't have any connections with insiders. He's just nothing more than a speculator but creates "Theories" all the time. BTW, his predictions for now are, Crash, Cress/Stahn, Hayabusa, Reimu, and a brand new Monolith character. Also Adol from Y's. He was pushing for Doomguy once but he dropped it after Vault Boy.
The followers of him are also speculating everyday, and gathering info from overseas like 5chan people do. They tend to lean towards the Western speculation maybe more than 5chan does, so characters like Crash, Master Chief, Dovahkiin, 2B, Lara Croft, Doom Slayer, Geno, Shantae has more presence than other places.
But Lloyd isn't seen as lock as 5chan. Yuri and Cress are often brought up for Tales rep.
Reimu is also controversial in this cluster but not much as 5chan since their Guru is pushing for her. Fate, no.

Spoiler: TTC1266

Now, this cluster is... something else.
The channel introduces the speculation scenes of the West time to time but with very and I mean VERY unique narratives.
Like a video from 1 or 2 days ago informed us that the legendary leaker Sabi came back and posted multiple footage of upcoming Mini Direct and some randos leaking five brand new 3D mode data of unknown playable characters the West is on fire now and Blocked Content, the real big shot of Smash insiders, is making some moves the scene is going forward or what not, Kasumi, RWBY, so much more that an ignorant like me can't even understand what am I into.
In their realm, words from leading figures like PapaGenos, Blocked Content, WUG Martin and other names I can't even find are super influential even among actual insiders. I fell in love with their narratives when they called the collab discussion of PapaGenos, Blocked Content, and LaxChris, "The Summit Conference" and making it sounds like a HUGE deal.
What's really scares me is that no one in the comment sections is doubting the channel and some are even praising how the Western gaming media is so much in advance compared to Japans'. You can't imagine how much PapaGenos is beloved there.
People speculate there are relatively younger than other places. They are genuine but naive. You can find typical Japanese picks there a lot, such as Touhou, FGO, Atelier, and other any cute girls you can think of. Oh, and some anime characters too. Tanjiro is more popular than Kirito these days.
As for Tales rep, Lloyd isn't the top contender. Yuri and Cress are the top 2 in here as well. Ludger and Asbel too. Not many Luke, Alphen, Stahn, Velvet.

Spoiler: Others

Combination of other small specualtion clusters. But they tend to overrap with at least one of four big clusters. Not many young people, especially those doing blogs, but I see quite a few Lloyd and Geno demands from them. Crash, 2B, Dante are popular. No Touhou or Fate or other cute girls. Not many Arle too. Western reps other than Crash, I don't see them.
Twitter and YouTube, on the other hand, Arle and Reimu has presense, but not Fate. Lloyd and Yuri are popular, but not many Cress demands. Sora, Dante, Rex, Monster Hunter, Cinderace, Zhao Yun, Steve, Raiden, Sephiroth, Magolor, Banadana Dee, Crash, Octoling, Paper Mario.

EDIT: And I just noticed something. I see Sonic characters probably less than Doomguy.
EDIT2: Not many Level 5 reps too. Very few Layton.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Capcom Cafe’s Ace Attorney theme ends today. If we truly are getting a direct in the next week, then that means the Capcom Cafe theme could’ve been used to get people talking about Ace Attorney before a certain reveal, as games have gotten revealed during Capcom Cafe themes before. So it could either be an Ace Attorney game, which could still lead to Phoenix in Smash, or just Phoenix in Smash.
Combine that with all the evidence which has always applied, like Phoenix being primarily on Nintendo consoles, and you’ve made yourself a good case for our Turnabout Attorney.

Don't do that.

Don't give me hope.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Tales of Arise technically has two protags right?

googles

the other one that’s not Alphen is a woman named Shionne. Imagine if we got her over him lmao