The day humankind has feared most: when the Geno thread and the DLC speculation thread cross paths, it's like being a novice chemist and carelessly mixing together hazardous chemicals. Part of me trusts that everyone will be mature and that we'll all learn something from a well spoken conversation, but the other part of me sees a war approaching.
As an active member of both threads, I'll say that as much as I'd like Geno because of my passion for Mario RPG games, I can't say that I share the same level of confidence as other Geno supporters. This is not to call out anyone in particular, but if you go into the Geno thread, it's a constant discussion of circumstantial evidence which triggers confirmation bias. The only real "substantial evidence" I would say that is in Geno's favor is that his support has withstood the test of time, recently reaching a boiling point, and that Sakurai expressed interest in the past.
Even then, Sakurai has expressed interest in a lot of characters joining Smash, it's not some Geno-exclusive club; ExciteBike, Heihachi, Urban Champion, Ayumi Tachibana, etc.
I think what non-Geno fans try to express to Geno fans is that there is a sense of elitism and entitlement surrounding the character, and to an extant, I can agree. I don't think some Geno fans realize this, they're just seeing that their favorite character is currently the most talked about on SmashBoards. I completely disagree with the idea that Geno is the current most-wanted character. The fact that he's so controversial while also has hype surrounding him might make him the most talked about character, but it's impossible to say he is the most-wanted.
I also disagree with the idea that Geno "is the last character that would make Ultimate complete." This is what pisses non-Geno fans off, because it's a completely subjective statement that's being presented in an objective light. It disregards the passion and years of supporting other characters and goes back around to that notion of elitism/entitlement. Geno is
not better than any other character, he is not the most deserving and he is not the most wanted. You may disagree with me on that one, but that just proves that everything surrounding this character, and all Smash speculation characters, is subjectivity, and not objectivity. The idea that Geno is the last of anything is just one's belief/opinion so it does not hold any merit in discussion.
Lastly, I want to talk about Fatmanonice. Personally, I've never had any issues with the guy in the past. Our interactions have been nothing but friendly, and I do believe he is the glue that holds the Geno-thread camaraderie together. But that is a double-edged sword. Why? Because there are people in there that worship him as if he were a cult leader, and as much as others might disagree, I really don't think that is Fatman's wishes. Every time Fatman is optimistic, most of the thread becomes more optimistic. Every time Fatman states something he's heard from the grapevine, people more often than not give him the benefit of the doubt instead of taking his word with a grain of salt (something he has stated he wants people to do with his words in the past; people believe him, and then it snowballs into him having a "manipulative" and controversial reputation.)
All I'm trying to convey with this post is that this is why I'm a bit anxious to see the two threads mixing together. I want Geno fans to understand where non-Geno fans are coming from. I believe the explosion in Geno's popularity lead to some people developing a sense of grandeur, which hardly any other character supporters have. Nobody comes into this thread and says "well Krystal is extremely likely for 'x' 'y' and 'z' reasons, all the planets aligned in her favor so she would be the last big character to join Smash" because that's just flat out rude to a lot of people.
I love a lot of people in the Geno thread, and I don't think any of them are coming at discussion with a sense of malice in anyway, shape, or form, so I hope there are no bad feelings here. I just wanted to contribute to the ongoing discussion and express my opinions on the subject.
And with all that being said, here's hoping Geno gets into Ultimate!
Implying that Sakurai wanting Geno in Smash isn't circumstantial evidence, then proceeding to try to weaken it's impact and make it appear as circumstantial evidence. Pick a side of the fence before you swing for it my guy.
I've seen you in the thread and you are mostly cool, but this post reeks of strawmanning imo.
This whole post going against some made-up fanbase who thinks their character is the only character with good chances or that deserves to get in, that all we do is smell our own farts and laugh at the silly little peasants who stan non-Geno characters while we sip on ice-cold glasses of KeroKero Cola.
I can 100% confirm that is not the case. What is the case is that it is the most active Newcomer Support thread that grows in support fairly regularly and has a bunch of people who love Geno but are really impatient about Nintendo news. We have a member who is funny and witty and has been supporting Geno since ye olden days and he's more or less a figurehead of the thread. He occasionally gets insider information to share and often mixes his own conjecture with it, and the thread is fairly split on believing it wholeheartedly, being hopeful but having doubt, and thinking he's full of ****. We talk about speculation almost constantly because the character we support doesn't have a lot to discuss that we haven't already due to his nature of being in a single playable appearance, memes get shared, and we get the occasional thread invasion of asshats who have nothing better to do than bother a fandom because they love a character.
Then we have people posting things like this, telling us not to be an echo chamber even though the whole thread is about wanting a single character in Smash. Similar dumb things are posted there, like telling people to curb their excitement because everyone is a child who can't manage themselves or still giving attention to 4chan text leaks that never had a chance to mean anything.
I'm seeing a lot of people take one piece of the puzzle, try to disprove or invalidate it, but then leaving the rest untouched. Sure, perhaps you can invalid one or two points by saying that they aren't unique to Geno or trying to spin them to somehow be against him, but I don't see anyone here knocking down each and every single point. In fact, I see more arguments about Geno fans than Geno himself.
Geno could very likely not be the most-wanted character. Once again, polls are very inaccurate and can be manipulated in many ways so it's hard to know for sure, but Geno tends to hit top ten status in the majority of mock polls in reference to characters people want. I've seen many a character place higher than him, though I've also seen these characters come and go with speculation and hype while Geno remains. This means that in the very least, Geno fans have staying power.
Also, Geno fans are allowed to say that Ultimate would 'feel complete' with him. You are right, it is subjective...and there is nothing wrong with that. If a Geno fan thinks Ultimate is perfect as it is with Geno in, they are allowed to feel that way, which they rightfully should. Imagine telling someone it's not right from them to be satisfied with a game because they got the content they wanted. What you are doing right now is taking a subjective opinion on how someone feels and saying 'it's wrong' or 'there is a problem with this' just because this opinion doesn't include what you think it should. Why should a Geno fan not be content with Geno's inclusion? I know for a fact that when Geno gets in, I have no objections to any other inclusions. Sakurai could bounce off the walls and throw in characters I've never heard of or even grab characters from companies I don't like and I could care less. There is nothing wrong with that, so stop acting as if it's a bigger issue than it really is.
Also, I think you haven't been in the thread regularly, because I constantly see it rise in which the majority of the thread is positive on his chances, and I've seen it fall to where the majority thinks only his Mii Costume is coming back. There is no illusion or grandeur here, just people who want a character in Smash and look for reasons as to why he may be coming.
Funny fact you mention Krystal though. I'm all for other people talking about why their character could get in and to give evidence as to why. In fact, that's one of the reasons I came to this thread: to see who people think is likely and why. My opening debut was just to discuss two characters I didn't get a chance to in the RTC thread and to get an idea on why people really think that Sora and Geno have such low chances of happening.
As someone who constantly looks at evidence and decides if it means anything worth considering, I encourage this for other characters. The issue here is I don't think other long-time requests have much, if any evidence to go on. Sure Crash has some things, Lloyd has some things, Master Chief has some things, Dante has a couple things, Rayman has some things: out of those, only three of them have been talked about for a while, IE legacy character talks.
Where is the evidence for Isaac? For Krystal? Bandanna Dee? I'm all for it, but there has been seemingly no hubub for them or I'm sure I would have heard about it.
This is where Geno shines right now: he has the legacy in the Smash community, he has the support from both a loyal and active fanbase and from the lead dev himself, he's got all the weird things going on around him. Even if you throw away everything but his fan support, he would get in eventually.
And I think that will be my final point that I would encourage everyone to take to heat. Sakurai listens to fans, even if it takes time to get things done. Don't give up on your character. Talk about them on social media, share your art, promote content that features them. Make sure it can be seen that your character's fanbase is alive and well and still thirsty for content and it will eventually come your way. Sakurai has worked through issue after issue to make it happen thus far, so by all means show your support.
