Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

And didn't Sakurai say 4 might be his last rodeo? Because, well, look where we are now.

i mean he also said that about Brawl, but I was referring explicitly to Everyone Is Here

Also, LOOK AT THIS:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Hadokeyblade]

i mean he also said that about Brawl, but I was referring explicitly to Everyone Is Here

Honestly the only way I can see everyone is here being a thing again is if they go the route smash 4 did and offered some veteran characters as DLC in the future.

 

[Arcanir]

Changing relationships between publishers is always a factor, but I still wouldn't necessarily worry about that. Nintendo has really pulled out all of their cards to build bridges between themselves in the publishers in Smash during the Switch era. Their third party relations haven't been this good since the SNES.

The only company I could see things changing with is Microsoft. They're very cooperative now, but I think the overall underperformance of the Xbox One is somewhat responsible for that. When a company underperforms, there's a certain humbleness about them, where they're more likely to pursue consumer-friendly strategies and equal partnerships with other companies. Inversely, success comes with a corporate ego which leads to companies pushing their luck with consumers and in partnerships. I don't think its surprising that Nintendo and Microsoft were much quicker to adopt crossplay than Sony, who's currently riding rather high.

It's more that it's always a factor you can't completely prepare for. It's easy to look at company relationships now and say 'yeah, they'll be fine', but things are always changing. Leadership change, policies change, financial situations change and all of those type of factors do influence how companies approach each other. A good example of that is again Konami as if you asked anyone back in Brawl whether they'd would just go off and burn all their bridges people would've thought you were crazy, yet thats what happened around the time of Smash 4's development. They changed their course from what we saw previously and stopped caring about their video game division.

It's especially the case since we're all just casual viewers with limited knowledge of how Sakurai goes into the negotiations. So we don't have a full grasp of the work that he puts into getting those characters, and whether or not they're as easy to get as we think they are.

 

[Speed Weed]

While I don't think Smash will "end", I think that there could be changes going forward that result in Smash "as we currently know it" to end.

I mean, think about it. While there's hardly any way for Smash to sell poorly, they've gone all in on making the mascot crossover the best it can be in the most effective marketing method possible: having an all-star roster of characters. We're at a point where with basically any character being cut, that character would become the among the highest requested characters.

We're also at a point where few of the remaining non-playable requests don't have nearly the same fan support or demand as previously large demands, and their role in their home games isn't necessarily large. For "new" series, there are few that have regular prominence in promo material and releases. Ultimate covers many bases.

Even if you add Dixie Kong, Bandanna Waddle Dee, and Waluigi, that's three newcomers. If Golden Sun and Advance Wars aren't revived, those two series are hard on luck to get a fighter. Sure, you'll get the newest Pokemon and probably Fire Emblem lord, but where else do you go? For another example, Chibi-Robo is dead. New character additions would probably be overshadowed by veteran announcements overall, but there isn't a major pool for 1st party newcomers like there once was.

This would result in, most likely, changes to gameplay and game modes, which isn't as much of a draw as characters are currently. It's not a black and white situation at all. While Smash will likely continue, the question is not necessarily "will they" but "how will they". It cannot be denied that it will be extremely difficult to outperform Ultimate in terms of scope and audience. I'm not entirely sure how this will happen, if i'm being honest.

The fact that this crossover may never happen again is a reason why I'd like to see it get even bigger. It'll probably never happen again, so I say go all in.

i mean, i don't really agree with the notion that first-party options would be limited for a smash 6, simply because it's not like we're getting smash 6 right after this one

if we go with the assumption that we won't get a new smash for a while, then by that time there should be a lot of new characters and series rising to prominence (and probably even a few older ones coming back). the current options we have? sure, i can see that, even though there's still a crapton of first parties i'd love to see, i have to agree that the vast majority of them don't really have star power.

to better illustrate my point, let's look at the hypothetical scenario where it takes 10 years until a new smash. the longest time period i've seen thrown around until a potential smash 6. 10 years was also the period of time between brawl and ultimate. of course, during that time period the at-the-time current nintendo landscape changed heavily, so if we take a look at various additions in smash 4 and ultimate, we can see that between brawl and ultimate, the following things happened that affected the two games after brawl:

-punch-out and kid icarus were revived
-splatoon became a thing
-xenoblade became a thing
-isabelle became the de facto mascot of animal crossing
-fire emblem became a major ip
-arms became a thing

and that's just the ones that affected smash

as this demonstrates, once smash 6 comes around, there will probably be a lot more viable first party choices again, provided we don't already get it 3 or 4 years from now (and even then, it's not like we HAVE to have recent first parties only). assuming it'll be a while, we're bound to get a bunch more new characters, series and revivals until then.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

uhhhhhhhhhhh

There was a problem fetching the tweet

down to the exact hour. idk this guy's cred, but worth keeping an eye on regardless

 

[cmbsfm]

Snake didn't have realistic firearms in Brawl. Project M gave him a tranquilizer gun, but Brawl stuck to explosives, seemingly to avoid realistic firearms.

I don't think anything's officially been stated about why Snake didn't make it into Smash 4. Kojima stated that he wanted Snake to be in the game, but Konami was in full-on bridge-burning/pachinko machine mode at the time (firing Hideo Kojima and removing his name from the boxart of games, removing P.T. from all digital stores, sticking exclusively to gambling and mobile games aside from MGSV (which they rushed out rather than letting the developers finish the game), etc.), so as far as anyone can tell, Konami seems to be the reason.

The thing is though, the project plan for ultimate was finalized in 2015, at the height of Konami’s ****ery. So, Sakurai still decided to bring back Snake despite this.

Honestly, just seems like Snake’s absence in Smash 4 was on Nintendo/Sakurai. Probably just wanted to focus on other character I guess.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I'm honestly expecting the next Smash to massively cut down the roster.

Doubt it

Other than cutting people due to licenses and maybe lower popular characters, I don't think it'll happen. The only way I can see a massive cut is if they reboot the series.

The only characters I feel who have a higher risk of being boot are these imo:

Spoiler

Again, this is my personal opinion based on the series with cuts and who are considered some of the lower members and those who were cut at some point. Don't @ me for this[ because I would be glad for all of them to return/spoiler]

What you're asking for is flammable pitchforks to happen. Be realistic about this

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The thing is though, the project plan for ultimate was finalized in 2015, at the height of Konami’s ****ery. So, Sakurai still decided to bring back Snake despite this.

Honestly, just seems like Snake’s absence in Smash 4 was on Nintendo/Sakurai. Probably just wanted to focus on other character I guess.

I think the most likely scenario is that Sakurai just didn't have the guts to ask at the time BECAUSE of all the bad PR Konami was getting.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'm doing a Smash 6 concept thing, and X is one of the newcomers. I thought I'd actually make a mockup of his alts.

Copy X is like the Koopalings and Alph, with a seperate name and voice recording. Cyber Elf X also has a different voice recording (like the Ikes), sounding much more calm.

graphic design is my passion.

 

[skylanders fan]

My only thing with x is I wonder if Capcom would want both him and both in honestly I’d prefer X I mean have X and Mega Man playable in the same game

 

[MooMew64]

You must be really desperate to dunk on Forces because this was the most unrelated reply to a post I've ever seen.

Not to stray off topic too much, but I'll chip in and say that as someone who used to bash that game to heck and back, it ain't even that bad. It's not great, but it ain't the complete Sonic Boom level dumpster fire some treat it as. Why people take every opportunity to trash it is a bit odd to me.

Anyways, back on topic, I could see an indie Direct happening, but I wouldn't necessarily get hopes up that'll mean anything for a General. I still think I'm putting more stock in the original Mario remasters sources, as their original info has panned out pretty much 100% so far.

 

[Ura]

uhhhhhhhhhhh

There was a problem fetching the tweet

down to the exact hour. idk this guy's cred, but worth keeping an eye on regardless

UTC + 2 was like 3-4 hours ago.

 

[Will]

uhhhhhhhhhhh

There was a problem fetching the tweet

down to the exact hour. idk this guy's cred, but worth keeping an eye on regardless

he doesn't wanna say **** because he knows if there's anything disappointing he'll get chewed out by rabid nintendo manchildren

 

[Hadokeyblade]

My only thing with x is I wonder if Capcom would want both him and both in honestly I’d prefer X I mean have X and Mega Man playable in the same game

Would kinda prefer to have one of the RPG megamen instead if im being honest.

 

[PeridotGX]

My only thing with x is I wonder if Capcom would want both him and both in honestly I’d prefer X I mean have X and Mega Man playable in the same game

I mean, X isn't getting in anytime soon (He had a Mii Costume with Byleth), I just think he'd be neat. And I don't think there'd be too much danger of overlap between the two.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

STRAP IN Y'ALL

 

[chocolatejr9]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

STRAP IN Y'ALL

Wait, do we know if they're credible?

 

[SNEKeater]

Don't trust Setanta

 

[GoodGrief741]

Every time the discussion breaks out about how Ultimate can't be topped, how cuts are inevitable, how we'll just see Ultimate ports until the end of time... To me, the solution is clear: give Smash more dev time and give it a bigger budget. Smash Ultimate was built from the ground up, with a new engine, a decent amount of single player content, and 6 unique newcomers (I'll count Plant since it seems to have been developed alongside the base game stuff) in three years, admittedly reusing a lot of assets. With the engine set, the next three years will give us an additional 11 fighters and stages, on a smaller team to boot. Imagine what a Smash game could do on a 5-year period for development. Sure, you'd see some cuts because of licensing and redundancies, but it's nowhere near impossible for them to reach or surpass Ultimate's fighter count if that's what they deem the game needs to sell.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

STRAP IN Y'ALL

Keeping expectations low.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait, do we know if they're credible?

This ***** constantly runs away after I give him my Macca in SMT4, absolute joke tier credibility

 

[Rie Sonomura]

2 PM has passed. he hasn't said anything... gonna keep refreshing

 

[SharkLord]

2 PM has passed. he hasn't said anything... gonna keep refreshing

Well that was a ****ing lie

 

[Michael the Spikester]

2 PM has passed. he hasn't said anything... gonna keep refreshing

As I expected everytime something like this happens.

 

[CannonStreak]

Why was this guy's tweet posted here, anyway?

 

[Calamitas]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

STRAP IN Y'ALL

PressXToDoubt.png

 

[CannonStreak]

Another thing: Not doubting this guy's credibility, or lack of it, but what else has he gotten wrong in the past?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Another thing: Not doubting this guy's credibility, or lack of it, but what else has he gotten wrong in the past?

can't find those, but did find what he got right:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[CannonStreak]

can't find those, but did find what he got right:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Is that all? It doesn't seem like much.

 

[MooMew64]

Setanta didn't mention Pikmin 3 first, that was in the Mario Remasters leak.

Not to mention Pikmin 3 stuff was going around since like, February 'cause of the stuff with the Pikmin 3 site.

 

[osby]

Shocked to learn that the random twitter guy with a questionable track record might be wrong.

 

[cmbsfm]

I think the most likely scenario is that Sakurai just didn't have the guts to ask at the time BECAUSE of all the bad PR Konami was getting.

For Smash 4? Because the roster for that game was decided in 2012 I believe, and at the time Konami didn’t have the bad PR they do now.

Also not sure when DLC was decided for Smash 4, but they only brought back like 3 veterans as DLC. Konami probably didn’t have anything do with it either, as there wasn’t an entity with bad PR keeping Wolf and Pokemon Trainer out.

 

[CannonStreak]

Shocked to learn that the random twitter guy with a questionable track record might be wrong.

Of course you aren't.

PS: I know you were being sarcastic there, but I just had to say that.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Every time the discussion breaks out about how Ultimate can't be topped, how cuts are inevitable, how we'll just see Ultimate ports until the end of time... To me, the solution is clear: give Smash more dev time and give it a bigger budget. Smash Ultimate was built from the ground up, with a new engine, a decent amount of single player content, and 6 unique newcomers (I'll count Plant since it seems to have been developed alongside the base game stuff) in three years, admittedly reusing a lot of assets. With the engine set, the next three years will give us an additional 11 fighters and stages, on a smaller team to boot. Imagine what a Smash game could do on a 5-year period for development. Sure, you'd see some cuts because of licensing and redundancies, but it's nowhere near impossible for them to reach or surpass Ultimate's fighter count if that's what they deem the game needs to sell.

Still waiting on the proper Adventure mode and Board the Platforms to return before I call it decent

 

[Guynamednelson]

give it a bigger budget.

I don't think it necessarily had a small budget. Just one taken up by third-party licensing.

 

[Will]

it's ****ing funny

a leaker could say they have news at 2 PM, and no matter if it's real or fake, by 2:01 people are already ****ting on him like they're supposed to do it on the clock at the exact moment the hour hits like they don't have lives, makes you wonder who the real no lifes are

 

[MooMew64]

I don't think Smash is lacking in a meaty budget. Licensing is very, very, very expensive business, and a temperamental one at that. Both parties need to be satisfied with an outcome in order to be fully onboard, and things can change over the years. Who knows where Smash'll end up, honestly: Only thing I see is for sure is it ain't going away.

What's funny to me is we had these exact same talks of "Is Smash over?" when Smash 4 ended, and then we got Ultimate. Some things never change, I guess.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

watch as we get it at 10 PM-midnight tonight

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't see licensing issues being an issue for most of the third parties.

The only ones who seem iffy are .

Square seems willing to play but the rights to songs seem muddy, and Microsoft will continue to be a gray area as long as its a rival corporation.

The rest of the third party companies seem pretty eager to join Smash. I mean SNK kinda just said they'll give Sakurai anything they want.

 

[CannonStreak]

watch as we get it at 10 PM-midnight tonight

If it is at midnight, that would be at 10PM my time. Just saying.

But we're not taking this guy seriously, are we?