Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SharkLord]

We don't have an echo from a franchise owned by Sega. Is it a rule that it can't happen, or merely a coincidence? I'd bet most everyone here would say the latter, so what makes this different?

and don't even exist in the same universe, and that's not a problem.

You know what I mean. Fire Emblem: Binding Blade and Fire Emblem Awakening are both from the Fire Emblem series.

 

[Lamperouge]

I wouldn't expect anything Smash related.

I don't think too many people here were expecting much more than indie reveals in a showcase centered around...well, indie games, but alright.

Thanks for tempering our expectations, I guess.

 

[Curious Villager]

I cant go through every post but the recenty ones were all on week days, not sure if there is any weekend posts

I think they don't do weekend posts, then again I may have not been paying close attention..

Eitherway, they do still have this art contest going on which we'd be hearing the results of either sometime this month or next month eitherway, assuming they haven't revealed that yet.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'm sorry but what? That's not even a comparison.

Just because it hasn't yet happened doesn't mean it can't happen. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Jerry98]

Oh I thought Romanian was the word for Romani due to a language barrier, thabks for the correction!

Fun fact: in Italy we use the word "Romani" (plural of "Romano") to refer to people who lives in Rome.
"Romanians" is translated as "Romeni/Rumeni", while the people you're talking about is simply "Rom"

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Just because it hasn't yet happened doesn't mean it can't happen. That was the point I was trying to make.

Again Echoes have to be of characters from the same series.

By your logic guess too that means Nintendo games could eventually get onto other consoles or better yet prehistoric animals begins to arise from their graves because it hasn't happened.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Black Shadow's shoulders are slightly broader than Captain Falcon's, but otherwise, he fits perfectly. I think it could be fine depending on the execution. The real issue is redundancy. Ganondorf would need a redesign or removal before Black Shadow would really add anything to the game. That and Ganondorf's design isn't the greatest but that's another thing entirely.

Again Echoes have to be of characters from the same series.

By your logic guess too that means Nintendo games could eventually get onto other consoles or better yet prehistoric animals begins to arise from their graves because it hasn't happened.

What? That's not what that means at all! All it means is that a thing not happening yet does not stop it from happening at all. It doesn't mean that impossible things can happen because they haven't happened yet.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

By your logic guess too that means Nintendo games could eventually get onto other consoles

I hate this so goddamn much because people forget it's already happened

I swear I've heard absolutely nobody talked about this ever since the kickstarter was up except that they ****ed up about sending copies to European backers

 

[chocolatejr9]

I hate this so goddamn much because people forget it's already happened
View attachment 281682

I swear I've heard absolutely nobody talked about this ever since the kickstarter was up except that they ****ed up about sending copies to European backers

I mean, I've heard it's apparently the laziest Wii U-Switch port yet, but that's about it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I hate this so goddamn much because people forget it's already happened
View attachment 281682

I swear I've heard absolutely nobody talked about this ever since the kickstarter was up except that they ****ed up about sending copies to European backers

Except what Nintendo exclusive fully owned games ever made it on consoles? I'm talking about Mario, The Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, Kirby, etc.

That's what I mean.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I hate this so goddamn much because people forget it's already happened

To be honest I assumed it was 3rd party.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Black Shadow's shoulders are slightly broader than Captain Falcon's, but otherwise, he fits perfectly. I think it could be fine depending on the execution. The real issue is redundancy. Ganondorf would need a redesign or removal before Black Shadow would really add anything to the game. That and Ganondorf's design isn't the greatest but that's another thing entirely.

If it couldn't work for Isabelle with Villager. It definitely couldn't with Black Shadow for Captain Falcon.

Again dude is taller and bulkier as Isabelle's dimensions are different to Villager.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

And I oop-

Pikmin 3 Deluxe was the calm before the storm indeed

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Except what Nintendo exclusive fully owned games ever made it on consoles? I'm talking about Mario, The Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, Kirby, etc.

That's what I mean.

Nintendo owns the IP for it though. Just because it sold like **** twice doesn't meam that changed

To be honest I assumed it was 3rd party.

Common misconception but they still had to ask Nintendo's permission for the entire thing

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nintendo owns the IP for it though. Just because it sold like **** twice doesn't meam that changed

My point kinda still stands. The day we see major Nintendo IPs like the ones I mention make it onto rival consoles is the day when we see pigs fly.

 

[SharkLord]

And I oop-
View attachment 281683
View attachment 281684
Pikmin 3 Deluxe was the calm before the storm indeed

My list of potential but unlikely direct dates is practically overflowing now.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I hate this so goddamn much because people forget it's already happened
View attachment 281682

I swear I've heard absolutely nobody talked about this ever since the kickstarter was up except that they ****ed up about sending copies to European backers

I remember when That was announced and I was so confused because it's a Nintendo game on Playstation.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ok so maybe the first maintenance is for Splatoon 2 as another reran Splatfest will happen on the 21st. The others though...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

My point kinda still stands. The day we see major Nintendo IPs like the ones I mention make it onto rival consoles is the day when we see pigs fly.

First you said Nintendo games, then it was fully owned and now it's major. At least the backpedaling is a good sign I was right

 

[Cosmic77]

Regardless of whether not Wonderful 101 should count as a Nintendo game on a rival console, we're still talking about Wonderful 101 here. As harsh as it sounds, I doubt Nintendo really cares about it.

Any notable first-party franchise is probably staying with Nintendo.

 

[PeridotGX]

Again Echoes have to be of characters from the same series.

By your logic guess too that means Nintendo games could eventually get onto other consoles or better yet prehistoric animals begins to arise from their graves because it hasn't happened.

I feel like there's a bit of a difference between Sakurai thinking "oh, this character from one series has a similar build and skillset to this one from another series, it'll work as an echo" and dinosaurs coming back from the dead.

just a smidge.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If it couldn't work for Isabelle with Villager. It definitely couldn't with Black Shadow for Captain Falcon.

Again dude is taller and bulkier as Isabelle's dimensions are different to Villager.

Size itself doesn't really matter. A ton of character's sizes are inconsistent, even in regards to characters of the same series. Besides, the only thing that matters (EDIT: when basing a character model off of another character model) is that the skeletons match up. You can otherwise scale them up without any issues, so if Black Shadow needed to be taller, they could do that. In fact, doing so would make him look a bit beefier as well.

Isabelle is a bit different, as she's not only taller, but much thinner as well so her arms are in a completely different location from the Villager's arms. This isn't really the case with Black Shadow. Also, the Male Wii Fit Trainer is a bit bulkier than the female Wii Fit Trainer. It's not by much because the hitboxes need to be the same, but it does show there is a bit of leniency in that regard, even moreso for Black Shadow because his hitboxes are allowed to be different as an Echo Fighter.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Regardless of whether not Wonderful 101 should count as a Nintendo game on a rival console, we're still talking about Wonderful 101 here. As harsh as it sounds, I doubt Nintendo really cares about it.

Any notable first-party franchise is probably staying with Nintendo.

My point exactly. You'll likely be seeing pigs fly before we ever see Mario, TLoZ, Kirby and Pokemon ever being on Playstation and XBox.

 

[Schnee117]

I don't see why a potential echo fighter would be rejected just because they're from a different series to the potential original fighter.
Like it didn't stop them from adding Ganondorf in Melee as a clone (read: Echo) of Captain Falcon.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Size itself doesn't really matter. A ton of character's sizes are inconsistent, even in regards to characters of the same series. Besides, the only thing that matters (EDIT: when basing a character model off of another character model) is that the skeletons match up. You can otherwise scale them up without any issues, so if Black Shadow needed to be taller, they could do that. In fact, doing so would make him look a bit beefier as well.

Isabelle is a bit different, as she's not only taller, but much thinner as well so her arms are in a completely different location from the Villager's arms. This isn't really the case with Black Shadow. Also, the Male Wii Fit Trainer is a bit bulkier than the female Wii Fit Trainer. It's not by much because the hitboxes need to be the same, but it does show there is a bit of leniency in that regard, even moreso for Black Shadow because his hitboxes are allowed to be different as an Echo Fighter.

I'm surprised this post begins with '"size doesn't matter" yet doesn't mention Lucina who's actually got a size difference from Marth

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

At this point I think the potential of any “echo fighter from a different series” would be more relevant for the next Smash game.

Given the fact that Volume 2 is similar to Volume 1, I wouldn’t expect any Echo Fighters to be added at this point.

 

[SharkLord]

For the original argument, I don't think Black Shadow would work as an Echo for Captain Falcon or Ganondorf. For the former, he's too large and bulky, and would more likely be a Dr. Mario-type semiclone. For the latter, not using Echoes over other franchises aside, Ganondorf uses a sword now and Black Shadow doesn't, and recent fighters have been taking less liberties with the fighters. I'd imagine Black Shadow would be closer to Brawl Ganondorf as a heavy Falcon semiclone with some differences, whilethe King of Evil himself moves farther and farther away from Falcon.

 

[MooMew64]

Just sayin' maintenance doesn't always mean a Direct.

We've had plenty now without a presentation accompanying it. Pikmin 3 wouldn't be dropped through a tweet if there was this big presentation coming.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm surprised this post begins with '"size doesn't matter" yet doesn't mention Lucina who's actually got a size difference from Marth

Yeah I'm not sure why I left that detail out. It wasn't even something I forgot.

But yeah, in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U, Lucina was slightly shorter than Marth, which made her attacks not reach quite as far. This is no longer the case in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I'm not entirely sure why this change was made. My guess is they found it to be a little silly that she had a bit less range so they fixed it for balancing reasons but there's not really any way of knowing.

For the former, he's too large and bulky...

He's really not though...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I still don't buy we'll get echos of characters toward those from a different series. Especially given all the ones we have are from the same series.

 

[Teeb147]

The idea of getting dlc echo fighters is great. But I don't think it's likely, just more open, now that we know they're ok dropping random stages

 

[SKX31]

It would look really awkward when you stack 'em, though. Why would a Legend of Zelda character have an F-Zero character stacked on him? It would kindsa remove them from their home series that way.

So the F-Zero character could have energy boomerangs of course.

Perfectly balanced as all things should be.

My point exactly. You'll likely be seeing pigs fly before we ever see Mario, TLoZ, Kirby and Pokemon ever being on Playstation and XBox.

Honestly I could see it, but only if multiple consoles fail in a row. It's very unlikely, but Nintendo's business is very much tied to the first party and there's the classic example of SEGA looking unstoppable until the Saturn faltered in the US and the Dreamcast got severely outcompeted. Nintendo would probably be able to take more hits than SEGA, but that ability ain't infinite.

 

[MooMew64]

Echoes are just a fancy branding for full-on clones, I don't think there's any rules on who they can and can't be made for. If Sakurai wanted to clone a Mario character off onto, say, a Zelda character, I don't think he'd care that the original moveset comes from a character from a different series. The entire point of Echoes is to get in more characters with less dev time, so if there was a way he could get in more for less for some of the more minor characters that could conceivably work when given the original character's moveset, I don't see why he wouldn't do it. Heck, he's already done it with being based off of .

That said...We probably won't be seeing any more Echoes unless we're getting a "One more thing" bonus after FP2, and the odds of that are already pretty low IMO. More Echoes will probably be for the inevitable "Ultimate Deluxe" they'll do in the future.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The idea of getting dlc echo fighters is great. But I don't think it's likely, just more open, now that we know they're ok dropping random stages

Especially since they wouldn't be time consuming and quick to work on. A good means to pleasing fans more with a few more additional characters and rounding out to 90 (92).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The idea of getting dlc echo fighters is great. But I don't think it's likely, just more open, now that we know they're ok dropping random stages

I'm not sure it's comparable for one specific reason: Small Battlefield didn't need any assets created for it, and an Echo Fighter certainly would. It would need new animations too so it's not as quick and easy as the minor modifications that Small Battlefield has.

I also doubt we'll see another shadowdropped stage but that's neither her nor there.

 

[Teeb147]

Especially since they wouldn't be time consuming and quick to work on. A good means to pleasing fans more with a few more additional characters and rounding out to 90 (92).

Definitely, if it were me in charge I'd made some dlc echos XD It'd be great to see a little more content, even if they're clones.

I'm not sure it's comparable for one specific reason: Small Battlefield didn't need any assets created for it, and an Echo Fighter certainly would. It would need new animations too so it's not as quick and easy as the minor modifications that Small Battlefield has.

I also doubt we'll see another shadowdropped stage but that's neither her nor there.

True it wouldn't have been much work to make small battlefield, unlike echos. It's a nice little gesture. Maybe more little gestures could lead somewhere though? Definitely up to seeing more downloadable content.

 

[Diddy Kong]

For the original argument, I don't think Black Shadow would work as an Echo for Captain Falcon or Ganondorf. For the former, he's too large and bulky, and would more likely be a Dr. Mario-type semiclone. For the latter, not using Echoes over other franchises aside, Ganondorf uses a sword now and Black Shadow doesn't, and recent fighters have been taking less liberties with the fighters. I'd imagine Black Shadow would be closer to Brawl Ganondorf as a heavy Falcon semiclone with some differences, whilethe King of Evil himself moves farther and farther away from Falcon.

They should just add Blood Falcon as a direct Echo of Captain Falcon and be done with it honestly.

Same with Yarn Yoshi and Yoshi.

There's no way that these franchises will ever get anything else in any other way.

I also always said, Slippy Toad would make a great Falco Echo.

In general I would love it if veteran franchises got something new, even if it's just an Echo. Anything new is always welcome y'know. Imagine you got into Smash because your favourite franchise or character from it was in it, since one of the first Smash games and the same franchise being totally neglected ever since?

By the way, that how Donkey Kong fans felt mostly since Smash 4. Brawl finally gave us Diddy, but K.Rool was missing , and now Dixie is also sorely missing.

Zelda and Kirby also really could use a newcomer.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

My point exactly. You'll likely be seeing pigs fly before we ever see Mario, TLoZ, Kirby and Pokemon ever being on Playstation and XBox.

The "Closest" thing that we ever saw of that actually playing out was Rare IP on Xbox, But of course we all know that only happened because of the Microsoft buyout.

But seeing Mario, Pikachu or Donkey Kong officially on Playstation or Xbox would be absolutely unreal if it were ever to actually happen.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Definitely, if it were me in charge I'd made some dlc echos XD It'd be great to see a little more content, even if they're clones.

My choices would be.

Black Shadow (Captain Falcon); SmashPuppy made good points.
Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong); Similar to Chrom
Medusa (Palutena)
Octoling (Inkling)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Same with Yarn Yoshi and Yoshi.

Sakurai tweet: "We're proud to announce a new Echo Fighter: Yarn Yoshi! His feet turn into wheels when he runs, his eggs are replaced with yarn, and he has a new shield animation!"
Fans: "Yay?"

EDIT: You know what? If Yarn Yoshi's Yarn Lay turned characters into embroidered yarn balls like what happens when you lick up the other player in Yoshi's Woolly World, I would low key be excited for this character.