Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Garteam]

I think people really overemphasize Sakurai's preference towards his own run on Kirby. The fact its more generally represented in Smash largely has to do with elements that debuted in those games and became series staples (such as Kirby, Meta Knight, Dedede, and most of the Kirby spirits), content that comes from Smash 64 and Melee (such as half of the stages and music from Kirby in Smash Ultimate), and content getting reworked at the last minute (such as the Mario Land stage becoming Dream Land GB to give Kirby a stage on the 3DS version and Epic Yarn getting salvaged into the Great Cave Offensive after it was decided Woolly World would get a stage).

 

[Cosmic77]

Yes, obviously Sakurai has a bias for his own Kirby games, but I don't buy this theory that we can't get BWD until Sakurai quits being the director. I heard similar arguments a thousand times pre-Ridley. "Sakurai feels like it wouldn't be Ridley anymore if he shrunk him. He believes Ridley needs to be big to be the same character, so until Sakurai retires from Smash, we aren't getting Ridley."

Unlike Ridley, there's nothing really holding BWD back. He's relevant, he's popular, he's fairly important to the Kirby series, and he's clearly capable of working as a fighter — Personally, I think all BWD really needs is a stronger support base like Ridley or K. Rool.

 

[Deleted member]

Ara ara...what's the buzz?

 

[cosmicB]

The fact remains that all Japan-only additions have had a caveat attached to them, whether it be miscommunication and poor planning (Lucas) or intentions of being cut (Marth/Roy). Precedent exists where that caveat didn't exist and said fighters never happened, such as Takamaru or Ayumi Tachibana.

The question is just how much does that roadblock need to be removed for Sakurai/Nintendo to reconsider. For example, will news of the Famicom Detective Club remake and its subsequent localization (all 1st party Switch games have been localized, so it's probably happening) be enough to throw Ayumi in even the west's exposure to her is in its infancy? Same with Reimu, who has already crossed that barrier but is still overall pretty unknown outside Japan?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I mean I think if we’re getting another Kirby character it’s gonna be Bandanna Dee but I’m just not sure we’re getting another Kirby character.

 

[7NATOR]

Ara ara...what's the buzz?

Nothing much right now, it's dry. We're talking about Bandanna Dee Kirby and Reimu Touhuou

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

(all 1st party Switch games have been localized, so it's probably happening)

This is false. There's an unlocalized BrainAge game on the Switch.

I mean I think if we’re getting another Kirby character it’s gonna be Bandanna Dee but I’m just not sure we’re getting another Kirby character.

Unless that super special new Kirby game is coming out soon I'd say the chances of another Kirby character for DLC are pretty minimal.

Nothing much right now, it's dry. We're talking about Bandanna Dee Kirby and Reimu Touhuou

It's just Reimu. The Touhou Project is the series name.

 

[7NATOR]

It's just Reimu. The Touhou Project is the series name.

It's a running gag

 

[Wunderwaft]

Yes, obviously Sakurai has a bias for his own Kirby games, but I don't buy this theory that we can't get BWD until Sakurai quits being the director. I heard similar arguments a thousand times pre-Ridley. "Sakurai feels like it wouldn't be Ridley anymore if he shrunk him. He believes Ridley needs to be big to be the same character, so until Sakurai retires from Smash, we aren't getting Ridley."

Unlike Ridley, there's nothing really holding BWD back. He's relevant, he's popular, he's fairly important to the Kirby series, and he's clearly capable of working as a fighter — Personally, I think all BWD really needs is a stronger support base like Ridley or K. Rool.

I think the main difference between Ridley and BWD is that Sakurai did express interest in putting in Ridley as a playable character but said he couldn't envision the character as a playable fighter so he always relegated him to an NPC role. That's a bit different from BWD where I don't think Sakurai even once acknowledged the character or expressed interest in him. I don't think Sakurai dislikes BWD or any Kirby games he didn't make but I think he's more comfortable with representing Kirby with the games he made himself instead of the ones he didn't make, that's why we barely see any content from the post-Sakurai Kirby games.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the main difference between Ridley and BWD is that Sakurai did express interest in putting in Ridley as a playable character but said he couldn't envision the character as a playable fighter so he always relegated him to an NPC role. That's a bit different from BWD where I don't think Sakurai even once acknowledged the character or expressed interest in him. I don't think Sakurai dislikes BWD or any Kirby games he didn't make but I think he's more comfortable with representing Kirby with the games he made himself instead of the ones he didn't make, that's why we barely see any content from the post-Sakurai Kirby games.

Not sure how compelling the argument is when we've gotten characters that Sakurai has never talked about before. Also, I thought the tone Sakurai took with Ridley was more him going "wait really? why?".

 

[cashregister9]

We're talking Kirby but watch as they go and add Starfy instead.

 

[Pinguino21v]

About BWD, some people already said what I think: there are so many other characters Nintendo could chose, I certainly don't think they would pick a 4th character for an already represented serie. And that's even without taking Sakurai bias into account.

I'm coming off tinfoily here, but Shantae getting all this merch the Seven Sirens physical copies and her gbc and Risky's revenge ports to Switch and Ps4 all coming in September AND Seven Sirens coming out in Japan phyiscally and digitally in October (SS physical could still come in August with it's vague "Q3" release date) makes me think Shantae could be revealed in that timeframe for Smash.

Banjo&Kazooie got similar merch ramp up right before they were revealed in Smash too

I would love for it to happen, but I doubt it means anything.

 

[cosmicB]

This is false. There's an unlocalized BrainAge game on the Switch.

Something not releasing in America doesn't mean it hasn't been localized.

Should I rephrase and say there are no 1st party Switch games that aren't available in English?

 

[I.D.]

I certainly don't think they would pick a 4th character for an already represented serie.

Not the greatest argument

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

This won't be the first or last time this point is addressed, but I feel it need be said now.

Since 2017, 12 of the ~30 official Touhou games have been steadily made available for purchase on Steam in all regions. Since PC aren't region locked, all the others can be imported through 3rd party merchants, despite not being officially distributed. They're also quite easy to pirate, which I suspect accounts for a large percentage of players.

Outside of 1 of the games on Steam, none of them have official translations/localizations. However, fan translations are simple to find and patch in. And the creator of Touhou, ZUN, has explained that he trusts fan translators to do an accurate job above anything he can do officially.

Frankly, it's not hard to play Touhou in your language right now. It's just a challenge to track who, where, and how many are playing.

I'd say the real point of contention isn't that you can't play Touhou, it's that you can't play Touhou on Nintendo. Yes, Reimu and friends have cameo'ed in a handful of games, and there are a good number of fan games (7-9 iirc), but is that enough? We know Cloud and Joker got in despite having only minor appearances on Nintendo platforms prior to their announcements; is the difference in their popularity or mainstream appeal so much greater than Reimu's that they can surmount that barrier but Reimu can't? Does a Nintendo appearance still hold the significance it used to? I recall a Sakurai quote to the effect of "an appearance on a Nintendo system is more of a formality" perhaps alongside Cloud's reveal.

I realize this is only one facet of a character's likelihood, but I felt like I should clarify Reimu's situation and raise some pertinent questions for general speculation.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

there are so many other characters Nintendo could chose, I certainly don't think they would pick a 4th character for an already represented serie. And that's even without taking Sakurai bias into account.

Erm, even The Legend of Zelda series has 6 characters.

 

[7NATOR]

Erm, even The Legend of Zelda series has 6 characters.

Half of them are Links though

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Half of them are Links though

Makes the argument even weaker since they felt the need to add the same character three times.

 

[7NATOR]

Makes the argument even weaker since they felt the need to add the same character three times.

Wait actually, what is the argument? I just wanted to bring up that there are 3 Links?

 

[N3ON]

I think people really overemphasize Sakurai's preference towards his own run on Kirby. The fact its more generally represented in Smash largely has to do with elements that debuted in those games and became series staples (such as Kirby, Meta Knight, Dedede, and most of the Kirby spirits), content that comes from Smash 64 and Melee (such as half of the stages and music from Kirby in Smash Ultimate), and content getting reworked at the last minute (such as the Mario Land stage becoming Dream Land GB to give Kirby a stage on the 3DS version and Epic Yarn getting salvaged into the Great Cave Offensive after it was decided Woolly World would get a stage).

I mean... look at that chart. Roughly 65% of all Kirby content comes from just four games in a thirty-game series. That's basically two thirds of the content from an eighth of the games. And that's giving equal weight to one spirit as it is to one character, because all the "major" content is Sakurai-era too.

There's as much from Air Ride as there is Return to Dream Land in Ultimate. And you can say that Sakurai's games debuted a lot of the recurring elements from Kirby, which is true - but take the original Zelda, Ocarina of Time, and any other Zelda of your choosing, and that still wouldn't equal 65% of the Zelda content in Smash.

Not even Gen 1 is weighed that heavily. Not even all of "modern" FE is weighed that heavily, and that's like a third of the series.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Not the greatest argument

Indeed, but I never said it was.

Nintendo could promote their newer games, like FE3H, like ARMS, like a remake such as Xenoblade Chronicles X, or like a revival such as Golden Sun.
Nintendo could promote Smash through the inclusion of third parties characters that would bring other communities into Smash, like Steve, like Master chief, like Kratos, or even like a League of Legends character.

Or, Nintendo could add Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Waluigi or Impa.

I don't deny they have their support, but these clearly don't have the same flavor as the few first examples I gave. And that's despite personally supporting Waluigi or more diversity in Zelda characters, and not liking half of the third parties that are usually talked about.

 

[Cosmic77]

As others have pointed out, 64 through Brawl was being developed before most of the "new" Kirby games were released. Then you have all the content from those three games piling up over time.

Smash 4 and Ultimate are really the only games where Sakurai could've added a lot of content from newer games, and Ultimate should probably be given a pass. BWD (or any other more modern Kirby character) had a lot of competition for the base roster, as Inklings, Ridley, and K. Rool were all more popular. Mario and Zelda are the only existing franchises in Smash that got a new stage, so a lack of a new Kirby stage isn't strange. The only thing I feel was a little unusual was the lack of remixes from newer Kirby games.

That just leaves Smash 4, and I feel like Sakurai scrambled to add both of the Kirby stages in that game. We did get a FS from Return to Dreamland though.

I think the main difference between Ridley and BWD is that Sakurai did express interest in putting in Ridley as a playable character but said he couldn't envision the character as a playable fighter so he always relegated him to an NPC role. That's a bit different from BWD where I don't think Sakurai even once acknowledged the character or expressed interest in him. I don't think Sakurai dislikes BWD or any Kirby games he didn't make but I think he's more comfortable with representing Kirby with the games he made himself instead of the ones he didn't make, that's why we barely see any content from the post-Sakurai Kirby games.

To be fair, not acknowledging a character doesn't necessarily mean Sakurai wouldn't add that character in the future. Just because Sakurai has yet to have said anything about BWD doesn't mean he's never given serious consideration to BWD.

Everything with Sakurai's stance on BWD is nothing more than speculation and assumptions. "Sakurai has never brought up BWD, therefore he must not care about adding him." It may or may not be true, which is why I don't think people should overthink why BWD isn't in Smash. The reason could be as simple as Sakurai always finding other characters to prioritize.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As others have pointed out, 64 through Brawl was being developed before most of the "new" Kirby games were released. Then you have all the content from those three games piling up over time.

Smash 4 and Ultimate are really the only games where Sakurai could've added a lot of content from newer games, and Ultimate should probably be given a pass. BWD (or any other more modern Kirby character) had a lot of competition for the base roster, as Inklings, Ridley, and K. Rool were all more popular. Mario and Zelda are the only existing franchises in Smash that got a new stage, so a lack of a new Kirby stage isn't strange. The only thing I feel was a little unusual was the lack of remixes from newer Kirby games.

That just leaves Smash 4, and I feel like Sakurai scrambled to add both of the Kirby stages in that game. We did get a FS from Return to Dreamland though.

As a slight counterpoint, there are older Kirby games that Sakurai did not have a hand in with notable elements like the Animal Friends, but those also only have songs and Spirits.

EDIT: I don't think Sakurai would actively refuse Bandana Waddle Dee though...Also, I just realized his debut was in Kirby Super Star so the entire argument is kinda moot, as he is a Sakurai character.

 

[JCKirbs]

I think people really overemphasize Sakurai's preference towards his own run on Kirby. The fact its more generally represented in Smash largely has to do with elements that debuted in those games and became series staples (such as Kirby, Meta Knight, Dedede, and most of the Kirby spirits), content that comes from Smash 64 and Melee (such as half of the stages and music from Kirby in Smash Ultimate), and content getting reworked at the last minute (such as the Mario Land stage becoming Dream Land GB to give Kirby a stage on the 3DS version and Epic Yarn getting salvaged into the Great Cave Offensive after it was decided Woolly World would get a stage).

Now that I think about it, I don't think Sakurai really had a chance to genuienly prove whether or not his apparent bias was waning or not.
Case in point:
- Only the Mario and LoZ series got a new stage in Ultimate's base game
- All of the bosses aside from Galeem and Dharkon aren't based on particularly new faces
- Of all of the new items, there are only 6 which aren't Smash-originated; furthermore, they aren't based on any relatively new concepts or ideas
- Any Nintendo-Focused Assist Trophies are based off of long-existing characters (aside from Splatoon and ARMS, of course)

Representation was more expressed through music (but even then, there were only a minimal of remixes for certain franchies) and Spirits (although, they're basically lesser Trophies).

Given that "Everyone was Here" was the main focus of Ultimate, naturally it make up the majority amount of development time in addition to the inclusion of brand-new fighters altogether. Everything else in terms of representation would theoretically be less of a priority.

Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai wanted to fall back on what he knew best about the Kirby franchise in order to make development time run smoother. Same thing could possibly apply to other franchises in terms of the ratio between representation for the most recent entries vs previous entries in the franchise.

About BWD, some people already said what I think: there are so many other characters Nintendo could chose, I certainly don't think they would pick a 4th character for an already represented serie. And that's even without taking Sakurai bias into account.

Yeah, there were so many characters Nintendo could've chosen yet they went for an 8th Fire Emblem character which was clearly already represented in Smash.
On the other hand, they're not just going to choose any character since FE:TH was at least a very recent game at the time the DLC was established (and they wanted something fresh to promote), so I say that Bandana Dee's best shot would be to promote a new Kirby game in the (near) future. Heck, the next core Kirby game was said to be the "pinnacle of the series" so that would probably be worth taking advantage of in order to elevate the Kirby series further.

But the problem definitely doesn't revolve around whether or not a series has representation or not, anymore.

 

[7NATOR]

Indeed, but I never said it was.

Nintendo could promote their newer games, like FE3H, like ARMS, like a remake such as Xenoblade Chronicles X, or like a revival such as Golden Sun.
Nintendo could promote Smash through the inclusion of third parties characters that would bring other communities into Smash, like Steve, like Master chief, like Kratos, or even like a League of Legends character.

Or, Nintendo could add Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Waluigi or Impa.

I don't deny they have their support, but these clearly don't have the same flavor as the few first examples I gave. And that's despite personally supporting Waluigi or more diversity in Zelda characters, and not liking half of the third parties that are usually talked about.

Actually though, that is an interesting conversation, when it comes to bringing in new communities

I think i remember The President of Nintendo of Japan talking about how they wanted Smash to branch into more audiences and such. I will have to find the article but I remember something like that being said

One thing I have to wonder is how much Crossover will be achieved through the communities. Will we see big enough crossover with the League community into Smash if a character got added in, Same with Halo and such. I personally think so, especially since i believe there's a good amount PC/Nintendo Switch Crossover than meets the eye. FPS and MOBA haven't really been touched upon in Smash, nor as really the PC gaming audience either, so it would be interesting to see if Nintendo is willing to go ahead and try to go for those audience in this pass, or perhaps in Min-Min is any indication they might stay on what Nintendo based audiences would want?

 

[N3ON]

As others have pointed out, 64 through Brawl was being developed before most of the "new" Kirby games were released. Then you have all the content from those three games piling up over time.

Smash 4 and Ultimate are really the only games where Sakurai could've added a lot of content from newer games, and Ultimate should probably be given a pass. BWD had a lot of competition for the base roster, as Inklings, Ridley, and K. Rool were all more popular. Mario and Zelda are the only existing franchises in Smash that got a new stage, so a lack of a new Kirby stage isn't strange. The only thing I feel was a little unusual was the lack of remixes from newer Kirby games.

That just leaves Smash 4, and I feel like Sakurai scrambled to add both of the Kirby stages in that game. We did get a FS from Return to Dreamland though.

I see this said, but one, all games did not all add an equal amount of content. Unless you were Mario, the most a series got before Brawl was three stages, maybe six songs, maybe half as many items, and around a dozen trophies. And that's across two games. And then unless you were Pokemon or Zelda, you didn't even have a second character, unless they were a clone.

Games like Brawl and 4 added waaaay more per series than the initial games. This retrospective look is implying there was parity across the titles, which is hardly the case. If the games that had actually added a lot of content added content equally across the Kirby games, it would currently look a lot more on par, because the initial games added so little in comparison.

And secondly, by the time of Smash 64, there were already more Kirby games (spin-offs included) Sakurai didn't create than he did. By Brawl, there were more mainline Kirby games that weren't made by Sakurai than those that were, and more than three times as many non-Sakurai games as Sakurai ones.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Something not releasing in America doesn't mean it hasn't been localized.

Should I rephrase and say there are no 1st party Switch games that aren't available in English?

Well, there's that Famicom detective club remake that is suppose to release this year in Japan and will peobably never be localised.

As others have pointed out, 64 through Brawl was being developed before most of the "new" Kirby games were released. Then you have all the content from those three games piling up over time.

Smash 4 and Ultimate are really the only games where Sakurai could've added a lot of content from newer games, and Ultimate should probably be given a pass. BWD (or any other more modern Kirby character) had a lot of competition for the base roster, as Inklings, Ridley, and K. Rool were all more popular. Mario and Zelda are the only existing franchises in Smash that got a new stage, so a lack of a new Kirby stage isn't strange. The only thing I feel was a little unusual was the lack of remixes from newer Kirby games.

That just leaves Smash 4, and I feel like Sakurai scrambled to add both of the Kirby stages in that game. We did get a FS from Return to Dreamland though..

To be fair about the lack of remixes that's not a thing that Sakurai choose, but the composer themselves. It seems that no one on the team was interested in modern Kirby music sadly.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm quite excited about this port- I never played Pikmin 3. Yay! Finally a port in my favor!

...not that I didnt rebuy DKTF, Pokken DX, and others I"m sure...


A Wii U title I'd love to make a debut?- NINTENDOLAND

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To be fair about the lack of remixes that's not a thing that Sakurai choose, but the composer themselves. It seems that no one on the team was interested in modern Kirby music sadly.

I believe this was only the case for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

 

[SharkLord]

Another difference is that Fire Emblem did have plans to have a localized game, though Marth was going to be in the previous game had time allowed that.

It's also worth noting that Super Smash Bros. wasn't the cultural phenomenon that it is today and that could have made considerations a bit different than it is now (although there are characters in that game who were passed on for worldwide obscurity in Melee as well as seen with Aumi Tachibana).


Oof. Can you imagine if a game simply got rid of two entire characters in your region? That'd be just the worst feeling.

And they were kept because... The playtesters thought they were unique. I don't know if the irony here is sweet or bitter.

I think people really overemphasize Sakurai's preference towards his own run on Kirby. The fact its more generally represented in Smash largely has to do with elements that debuted in those games and became series staples (such as Kirby, Meta Knight, Dedede, and most of the Kirby spirits), content that comes from Smash 64 and Melee (such as half of the stages and music from Kirby in Smash Ultimate), and content getting reworked at the last minute (such as the Mario Land stage becoming Dream Land GB to give Kirby a stage on the 3DS version and Epic Yarn getting salvaged into the Great Cave Offensive after it was decided Woolly World would get a stage).

^
It was a slow buildup, somewhat like the large amount of Fire Emblem reps. Out of the stages, we've got Dream Land, Fountain of Dreams, Dream Land again, Dream Land but retro, the Halberd, and the Great Cave Offensive. It's more of a Dream Land overload than anything, like how Donkey Kong keeps going back to jungle stages. And again, some stages got reworked from the original intent, so we would have gotten an Epic Yarn stage.
Out of the four settings (Not counting repeats), there's the inevitable Dream Land, Meta Knight's ship, the penultimate area of Adventure, and a Super Star subgame. The GCO is the only one I find unnecessary. It should also be noted that we do have noteworthy modern content in Kirby and Dedede's Final Smashes.
Maybe Sakurai's biased towards his content, but I don't think it's enough to prevent him from adding any modern content whatsoever. It's just that he ended up with mostly his own works in past games, which became more apparent when Kirby didn't get much new content in general.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It should also be noted that we do have noteworthy modern content in Kirby and Dedede's Final Smashes.

King Dedede's Final Smash is from Kirby Superstar Ultra. It's just Kirby who has a newer Final Smash origin (unless you count Meta Knight's Final Smash as being from Kirby Star Allies rather than being based on nothing, but I think that's a stretch).

EDIT: Also, since I have brought up Meta Knight's Final Smash, I am contractually obligated to point out how lame it is in comparison to Galaxia Darkness. Why on Earth did they change it?

 

[SharkLord]

King Dedede's Final Smash is from Kirby Superstar Ultra. It's just Kirby who has a newer Final Smash origin (unless you count Meta Knight's Final Smash as being from Kirby Star Allies rather than being based on nothing, but I think that's a stretch).

The main thing is that Sakurai didn't work on Super Star Ultra, where Masked Dedede originated from; That's actually where Kumazaki took the reins. You could make a case for the "Modern Age" of Kirby starting there, though RtDL is definitely where it was solidified. Still, that's a piece of Kirby content Sakurai didn't make originally.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The main thing is that Sakurai didn't work on Super Star Ultra, where Masked Dedede originated from; That's actually where Kumazaki took the reins. You could make a case for the "Modern Age" of Kirby starting there, though RtDL is definitely where it was solidified. Still, that's a piece of Kirby content Sakurai didn't make originally.

That I did not know. I thought he made both of them.

 

[SharkLord]

That I did not know. I thought he made both of them.

Nope, the last game Sakurai directed was Air Ride, and he was credited as a Special Advisor for Amazing Mirror. After that, he moved on from Kirby, besides Smash of course.

 

[I.D.]

To be fair I'm not sure if Sakurai finally relenting on Masked Dedede in Ultimate after giving him two different made-up final smashes in previous games helps your argument or not

 

[chocolatejr9]

EDIT: Also, since I have brought up Meta Knight's Final Smash, I am contractually obligated to point out how lame it is in comparison to Galaxia Darkness. Why on Earth did they change it?

Because Planet Robobot made it canon? Yeah, I've got nothing.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Actually though, that is an interesting conversation, when it comes to bringing in new communities

I think i remember The President of Nintendo of Japan talking about how they wanted Smash to branch into more audiences and such. I will have to find the article but I remember something like that being said

One thing I have to wonder is how much Crossover will be achieved through the communities. Will we see big enough crossover with the League community into Smash if a character got added in, Same with Halo and such. I personally think so, especially since i believe there's a good amount PC/Nintendo Switch Crossover than meets the eye. FPS and MOBA haven't really been touched upon in Smash, nor as really the PC gaming audience either, so it would be interesting to see if Nintendo is willing to go ahead and try to go for those audience in this pass, or perhaps in Min-Min is any indication they might stay on what Nintendo based audiences would want?

If the first FP was any indication, they might be willing to do a little bit of both. Joker's only Nintendo connection at the time of his announcement was PQ2. So while for the most part the other characters in that Pass had a stronger connection with the Nintendo fanbase, they might at least be willing to give it a shot if they feel a particular option would have a good pull with their install base.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I saw Reimu get brought up as well as possible decision making on the DLC roster. I personally feel like Sakurai has been trying to diversify the rosters DLCs to attract even more people and to represent various parts of gaming. There's various genres, regions, and companies that many people would love to have in the game and obviously not all of them can make it. He and Nintendo are aware of the most wanted characters but I wouldn't be surprised if they withhold from dropping too many of the most requested, big names in to either make them feel special or if there is a new Smash game and want a big name to sell the new game.

Reimu wasn't taken very seriously as a pick until Ultimate when people realized she is still a possibility. Even though other indies like Shovel Knight, Sans, and Shantae are more known to the English speaking world, what Reimu has is legacy and age. I can't think of many Indie series that started in the 90's and continued to this day. Obviously she'd be a Japanese catered pick but given how Smash is, it can be a trojan horse to open the series up to a wider audience.

Dragon Quest had big Western sales when Hero came out, there is huge interest for Persona to be on Switch since Joker debut, and there's been a lot of talk on SNKs own games post-Terry. While a big name will make the roster feel more "Complete" and be huge fanservice, giving some love to the lesser requested or more niche characters can benefit people due to the big boost when they get introduced.

This is why I firmly believe we may get a Reimu, Ryza, Monokuma, Arle, etc etc pick in this pass: Someone who is like Terry that they may have a legacy, whether by the company they're in or their game but is either not known outside of the hardcore gaming crowd or more popular in a specific region. And honestly, it helps widen and diversify the roster than if we went with "Oh it's just gonna be Sora, Geno, Doom Guy, Crash Hayabusa, etc and that's it".


I do believe we will get one or two Niche picks and maybe one hugely requested character in the pass.

I think there’s a chance that we can get some
Niche characters but there’s a world of difference between the characters you listed (besides Arle) & Terry/Joker/especially Hero.

Terry/King of Fighters & Joker/Persona are probably B- tier series. Persona was lower for a while but 5 really boosted its mainstream popularity. Dragon Quest is definitely an A tier series, it’d be a S tier if it was popular in the West.

I think it’s definitely possible that we could get something along the lines of Reimu or Monokuma, but it’d be the first of its kind instead of a continuation of Joker & Terry.

Slightly off-topic but I feel Monokuma’s Danganronpa is in a similar spot to Persona pre-5 right now. It’s garnered a healthy cult following in the West. It’ll be interesting to see if it can ever break out like Persona did.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To be fair I'm not sure if Sakurai finally relenting on Masked Dedede in Ultimate after giving him two different made-up final smashes in previous games helps your argument or not

I'd say it helps more than it hurts. Final Smashes seem to have been given a ton more attention in this game than the previous one. Dedede Burst could have just been something they could make quickly and easily.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I wonder if anybody on the Smash team actually cares how badly Kirby games that aren't Sakurai's get overlooked in Smash. If HAL really doesn't have a say in what Kirby should get, it would fall on other developers with power to decide its reserves. And from what I can tell, a lot of these developers have not worked with Kirby, save Sakurai because... well. That would require Nintendo to call the shots, but the last time I saw Nintendo use Kirby in an extensive light was Mario Maker 1, which only had the main three as costumes and never updated to add Waddle Dee despite the amiibo.

I hope my fears aren't justified.