Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Lamperouge]

I like Geno and support his inclusion in Smash (even though there are other characters from SE that I'd prefer) but I usually try to distance myself from his thread because I'm not that passionate for him compared to almost everyone else there.

 

[7NATOR]

I think if that were the case, then we wouldn't get statements like how Hero was the first choice, but they would pick Slime instead if that they vetoed that.

Both Joker and Banjo Kazooie go against that theory. No way Microsoft would choose banjo over a series that's more relevant. And Sakurai went over to say he wanted joker in smash, so they didn't even know about it before he did, at least inferring from the interviews.

Theories are fine, but you gotta work on them a lot and in the end people want something boxed in to believe, but things are usually a bit more open ;p

Yeah maybe this isn't the the way it's handeled. I still think it's interesting to think abut, because i do wonder how EXACT the process is, if the Process is even used for all the characters the same.

On the Banjo Point though, Phil spencer said he'd be down for Banjo in Smash before Ultimate was announced and such, and I would think they know about the requests for Banjo and how close he is to Nintendo in legacy, so i could see them putting Banjo in over Chief and Steve potentially, Especially Chief if they aren't the most comfortable putting their mascot in Smash. But i don't think the theory has all the answers. I'll go theorize more with my fellow brothers though on here and Gamefaqs though

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I don't want to say too much, because I don't want to get a warning for flaming again, which has only happened with him.
Some people don't see some things about someone, because they focus on what they like, and give credit for that. That's what I think, but I tend to stay away from that now. I like Geno, I just prefer to be mild about the fanbase for now XD

Nah, I totally get where you're coming from. If you're implying I'm not letting myself see the negative, you're probably right, but then again, I'm not super dedicated to this site and I'm never really reading what everyone is saying in depth. Maybe I should be a bit more perceptive.

 

[Teeb147]

Phil Spencer had been pushing for Banjo for a while.

From what I understood, he said he would be ok with adding banjo, not that it's the one he would want the most, or that he'd be making the decision for microsoft. I can't say I remember exactly what he said though.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Edit: That being said, it annoyed me a lot how people were acting like Katalina was sooooo much more interesting even though she's one of the most boring and generic characters in the game. The literal mute protagonists show more personality in their art for their different jobs than Katalina does in 100+ chapters of main quest with voiced dialogue.

To be fair, while I never played the original game, I did play a little bit of GBFVS. And as far as that game showed me, she did seem more interesting both in personality and, more importantly, moveset-wise.

I did hear some people talking about how Gran/Djeeta can use every weapon class in OG GBF, but I'm doubtful if Smash would incorporate that, tbh.

That said, I can understand the annoyance. It's basically similar to what happened with ARMS.

 

[Teeb147]

Yeah maybe this isn't the the way it's handeled. I still think it's interesting to think abut, because i do wonder how EXACT the process is, if the Process is even used for all the characters the same.

On the Banjo Point though, Phil spencer said he'd be down for Banjo in Smash before Ultimate was announced and such, and I would think they know about the requests for Banjo and how close he is to Nintendo in legacy, so i could see them putting Banjo in over Chief and Steve potentially, Especially Chief if they aren't the most comfortable putting their mascot in Smash. But i don't think the theory has all the answers. I'll go theorize more with my fellow brothers though on here and Gamefaqs though

Just for fun I took a look at any recent stuff they said, and it's still hard to tell who made the decisions, lol, but it doesn't sound like it was microsoft as a whole.

Spencer on the relationship with nintendo:
""The licensing relationships between the two companies, they're there and are kind of ongoing. The reason it's not some interesting, deep conversation is because with us owning Rare and the history between those two things, there are a lot of conversations over the years about, 'Hey, we want to do "X" is that okay? I think it's cool that Banjo is going to be in Smash." "

And then what Rare said when banjo was revealed:
"You asked. We listened. Nintendo were listening too, and we were happy to work with our old friends to make this one a reality. Banjo and Kazooie are coming to Super #SmashBrosUltimate! "

Kinda sounds like they worked more with Rare? And everyone was listening to the fans I guess, which is cool.

 

[I.D.]

I did hear some people talking about how Gran/Djeeta can use every weapon class in OG GBF, but I'm doubtful if Smash would incorporate that, tbh.

Why not? That's essentially their main gimmick. And Sakurai himself has expressed interest in creating a job based character in Smash, something that hasn't happened yet.

From what I understood, he said he would be ok with adding banjo, not that it's the one he would want the most, or that he'd be making the decision for microsoft. I can't say I remember exactly what he said though.

Even without Phil, we had that Rare interview showing there was interest from people within the company in putting him in Smash. I'm not saying that guy's theory is correct but there is plenty of evidence to show there were people in Microsoft/Rare who actually wanted it to happen. I suspect this is a bit of an uncomfortable truth for some though, since it implies it wasn't fan input alone that allowed Banjo to get in.

 

[Shroob]

Why not? That's essentially their main gimmick. And Sakurai himself has expressed interest in creating a job based character in Smash, something that hasn't happened yet.


Even without Phil, we had that Rare interview showing there was interest from people within the company in putting him in Smash. I'm not saying that guy's theory is correct but there is plenty of evidence to show there were people in Microsoft/Rare who actually wanted it to happen. I suspect this is a bit of an uncomfortable truth for some though, since it implies it wasn't fan input alone that allowed Banjo to get in.

I thought their main gimmick was that the world basically revolved around them.

 

[JarBear]

I only visit the Geno thread when there's a new character reveal, and honestly, I don't think the thread had a non-toxic reaction to any of the five characters for the first pass. Hero was the wrong SE rep, Banjo shouldn't have gotten in before Geno, nobody wanted Terry or Byleth, and so on.

They were mostly indifferent to the ARMS reveal, but everyone was happy when Min Min was revealed. She deconfirmed Spirits, so because it directly benefited Geno, she didn't receive a lot of criticism (at the time she was revealed).

People outside the thread are usually chill, but the thread itself? It's too much.

As a huge Banjo fan that was the most excited reveal to date for me and have expressed that with others on that thread ... what do you know, let’s crap on the thread again and make generalizations.

 

[Teeb147]

Why not? That's essentially their main gimmick. And Sakurai himself has expressed interest in creating a job based character in Smash, something that hasn't happened yet.


Even without Phil, we had that Rare interview showing there was interest from people within the company in putting him in Smash. I'm not saying that guy's theory is correct but there is plenty of evidence to show there were people in Microsoft/Rare who actually wanted it to happen. I suspect this is a bit of an uncomfortable truth for some though, since it implies it wasn't fan input alone that allowed Banjo to get in.

Pretty sure they wanted them in smash 'because' of the fan demand ;p Guess I can't be totally sure tho

 

[Idon]

Why not? That's essentially their main gimmick. And Sakurai himself has expressed interest in creating a job based character in Smash, something that hasn't happened yet.

Byleth using 4 weapons as it is is clunky, unnatural, and sporadic. I hate to imagine what kind of moveset it would look like if you took all 11 of them and tried to make a functional moveset out of them.

 

[cosmicB]

Why not? That's essentially their main gimmick. And Sakurai himself has expressed interest in creating a job based character in Smash, something that hasn't happened yet.

When was this? If he could figure out how to make it work, sounds like we could be getting a Bravely character.

 

[I.D.]

Pretty sure they wanted them in smash 'because' of the fan demand ;p Guess I can't be totally sure tho

Obviously fan demand played a role but the point is that the people involved actually need to have some interest in it. If nobody at Nintendo OR Microsoft cared about putting Banjo in Smash it simply wouldn't have happened no matter how much people yelled at them.

Byleth using 4 weapons as it is is clunky, unnatural, and sporadic. I hate to imagine what kind of moveset it would look like if you took all 11 of them and tried to make a functional moveset out of them.

Bartz already did that in Final Fantasy Dissidia (rip)

 

[3BitSaurus]

Why not? That's essentially their main gimmick. And Sakurai himself has expressed interest in creating a job based character in Smash, something that hasn't happened yet.

True, but they didn't even do it in a fighting game centered around Granblue. Though that probably has to do with "protagonists" in fighting games being accessible.

Besides, some characteristics of a series/character can be thrown away for the sake of others. Cloud has no magic because they focused on Limit Breaks. Joker doesn't change Personas - probably would make his moveset too cumbersome - so he focuses on other P5 mechanics. Hero has way more RNG than in his home series. And so on.

I dunno, I guess I'm just not very... optimistic on that kinda thing? I think there's at least a good chance they would prioritize mechanics other than a Class Change.

 

[Shroob]

I feel like Gran/Djeeta's issue is they're just..... boring unless you do a class-based mechanic. Their portrayals in Versus, while accurate, are as bog standard "Fighter" as you can get. If you want to make them interesting, you almost have to focus on a class change system, and that seems.... challenging to implement, to say the least.

 

[cashregister9]

I feel like Gran/Djeeta's issue is they're just..... boring unless you do a class-based mechanic. Their portrayals in Versus, while accurate, are as bog standard "Fighter" as you can get. If you want to make them interesting, you almost have to focus on a class change system, and that seems.... challenging to implement, to say the least.

Either the class change/Weapon system or a summoning system and bring Lyria into the mix

 

[Shroob]

Either the class change/Weapon system or a summoning system and bring Lyria into the mix

Shhh no one likes Lyria

I, I mean... y-yeah! Lyria! That super awesome character I don't forget exists over half the time!

 

[DevaAshera]

Byleth using 4 weapons as it is is clunky, unnatural, and sporadic. I hate to imagine what kind of moveset it would look like if you took all 11 of them and tried to make a functional moveset out of them.

I dunno, I absolutely love Byleth's Moveset, I don't think it was as clunky, unnatural, or sporadic as you say..its not like we don't already have Link(s) out here with a bunch of weapons.

 

[osby]

I feel like Gran/Djeeta's issue is they're just..... boring unless you do a class-based mechanic. Their portrayals in Versus, while accurate, are as bog standard "Fighter" as you can get. If you want to make them interesting, you almost have to focus on a class change system, and that seems.... challenging to implement, to say the least.

They should just add Lowain and his bros, they were hilarious in Versus.

Or Ladiva because she's awesome.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I thought their main gimmick was that the world basically revolved around them.

Isn't that almost every mobile protagonist though?

 

[smashkirby]

Make Alph an actual echo.

Right the wrongs of the past!

Ngl, this was one of the first things to come to my mind regarding Pikmin 3 DX. I don't care what anyone says. Alph got done real dirty going into Smash Ultimate. Heck, going into Smash Bros. in general, really. Honestly, the poor little guy is so obscure as a playable character in the context of Smash, it's like he's a hidden character... without actually being a hidden character.

Speaking of Pikmin though, I checked out the Pikipedia (Pikmin wiki) and came across something I now wish Smash Bros. had added as an Easter Egg.
https://www.pikminwiki.com/Pikipedia:April_Fool's_Day/Olimar's_notes_in_Super_Smash_Bros._Ultimate

For real, this alone would have given Olimar the personality he so desperately needs in Smash Bros. right now. Bonus points if Alph got his own take on this.

In other news, Akira from Rival Schools just got confirmed for Street Fighter V. If any of you want an RS character in Smash, that's probably how we'll get it.

Of course! We'll put the Street Fighter V game, in out Super Smash Bros. Ultimate game!


More seriously though, it is cool that Rival Schools is getting some mainstream attention. If people like Akira enough, they might even do a new game.

Also, RIP Batsu as the series's mascot.

Honestly, I LOVE Akira and I legit lost it when she was announced for SFV. I kid you all not, I always felt (and hoped) that if ANY RS character would be the first to enter a SF game, it'd be her.

Actually, does anyone else kind of feel like she's the Min Min to Batsu's Spring Man? Seriously, that was the vibe I always got from those two.

 

[I.D.]

True, but they didn't even do it in a fighting game centered around Granblue. Though that probably has to do with "protagonists" in fighting games being accessible.

Besides, some characteristics of a series/character can be thrown away for the sake of others. Cloud has no magic because they focused on Limit Breaks. Joker doesn't change Personas - probably would make his moveset too cumbersome - so he focuses on other P5 mechanics. Hero has way more RNG than in his home series. And so on.

I dunno, I guess I'm just not very... optimistic on that kinda thing? I think there's at least a good chance they would prioritize mechanics other than a Class Change.

I don't mean to be rude or anything but let's imagine a hypothetical scenario where Nintendo orders Sakurai to include Gran/Djeeta in the game. Two possible scenarios:

1. Sakurai goes for a portrayal that is accurate to the original game, and which would also satisfy his requirement of each DLC character bringing something new to the table.
2. Sakurai goes for a portrayal based on the much less popular and non-canon spin-off fighting game, that essentially turns the main characters into generic shotoclones for the sake of simplicity.

You seriously think the second option is more likely? To be fair you said they could prioritize mechanics other than class change, but what would those be?

When was this? If he could figure out how to make it work, sounds like we could be getting a Bravely character.

For some reason I can't find it. I think it was from the Smash 4 days but I'm not sure. Maybe I just hallucinated it or I'm confusing Sakurai with someone else entirely.

 

[Teeb147]

Obviously fan demand played a role but the point is that the people involved actually need to have some interest in it. If nobody at Nintendo OR Microsoft cared about putting Banjo in Smash it simply wouldn't have happened no matter how much people yelled at them.

Well nintendo cared about fan demand, and took some pointers from the poll. Ultimate showed they listened much more than ever before, with K.Rool, Ridley, and more. Personally I think Banjo was entirely Nintendo's decision based on the demand, but of course I can't be sure.

That's also why I think Geno and Shantae do have some chances. Even if I still see them as low for now.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Honestly, I LOVE Akira and I legit lost it when she was announced for SFV. I kid you all not, I always felt (and hoped) that if ANY RS character would be the first to enter a SF game, it'd be her.

Actually, does anyone else kind of feel like she's the Min Min to Batsu's Spring Man? Seriously, that was the vibe I always got from those two.

Admittedly, I am a little surprised that we didn't get Batsu first, since it's been established that he's the protagonist. Then again, we still don't have Mike Haggar playable, so it's not TOO surprising.

 

[Shroob]

I don't mean to be rude or anything but let's imagine a hypothetical scenario where Nintendo orders Sakurai to include Gran/Djeeta in the game. Two possible scenarios:

1. Sakurai goes for a portrayal that is accurate to the original game, and which would also satisfy his requirement of each DLC character bringing something new to the table.
2. Sakurai goes for a portrayal based on the much less popular and non-canon spin-off fighting game, that essentially turns the main characters into generic shotoclones for the sake of simplicity.

You seriously think the second option is more likely? To be fair you said they could prioritize mechanics other than class change, but what would those be?


For some reason I can't find it. I think it was from the Smash 4 days but I'm not sure. Maybe I just hallucinated it or I'm confusing Sakurai with someone else entirely.

Eh, let's not kid ourselves though.

At least for lore purposes, that shoto-clone playstyle is their canon class. Anytime the game forces you into a story battle where you can't bring your own gear, it's always as the Fighter class.

 

[I.D.]

Shhh no one likes Lyria

I, I mean... y-yeah! Lyria! That super awesome character I don't forget exists over half the time!

I wish I could forget Lyria exists, but she keeps cockblocking me in every Fate Episode.

Eh, let's not kid ourselves though.

At least for lore purposes, that shoto-clone playstyle is their canon class. Anytime the game forces you into a story battle where you can't bring your own gear, it's always as the Fighter class.

But even when it does that, you get skills from other classes depending on the battle, something that Versus simply doesn't explore at all. Also nobody cares about boring scripted battles.

 

[N3ON]

Some people choose to blindly listen to everything he says, but then again, he's not out there trying to be a leaker. He claims to have sources on the inside, but never directly "leaks" anything, just mainly theorizes based on what he hears in comparison to what others here.

There's a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes leaking if some believe broadcasting previously private "information" doesn't count as leaking just because it is then used as a basis for further speculation. The moment you share something that was previously undisclosed, that is leaking.

Just because you recuse yourself, or just because you say you're not a leaker, doesn't mean that's true. One doesn't get to reject responsibility for words said and actions taken just because you eschew the title. Especially if you still want to claim insight should you be proven correct. But whether or not the information is valid, there is tangible evidence of dissemination of otherwise sensitive info, which is what leaking is.

It's like if I said, for example, "I've been told by my sources that the next fighter is from Capcom, and I think it's going to be Dante". Obviously the latter is speculation, but the former is very much an inside claim being publicly broadcast. That's textbook leaking - regardless of credibility.

Now, the credibility of those claims should, logically, inform how trustworthy you are as a source going forward, but that's another issue.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Isn't that almost every mobile protagonist though?

This time it's literally the plot. Gran/Djeeta is known as a singularity, which means that they are completely unaffected by fate and can change the fates of others so they basically just get to do what they want.

There are other singularities but they aren't the protagonist so I assume it's less of a big deal.

Also, while Gran is your typical anime protagonist, Djeeta (who I have seen referred to as "Whale-chan") is often portrayed as ridiculously confident and overpowered. This distinction probably wouldn't carry over to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate as much (at most it'd be the difference between male and female Corrin), but if it was I'd imagine a ton of people would really like her and less people would claim that she's generic.

 

[osby]

I don't mean to be rude or anything but let's imagine a hypothetical scenario where Nintendo orders Sakurai to include Gran/Djeeta in the game. Two possible scenarios:

1. Sakurai goes for a portrayal that is accurate to the original game, and which would also satisfy his requirement of each DLC character bringing something new to the table.
2. Sakurai goes for a portrayal based on the much less popular and non-canon spin-off fighting game, that essentially turns the main characters into generic shotoclones for the sake of simplicity.

You seriously think the second option is more likely? To be fair you said they could prioritize mechanics other than class change, but what would those be?


For some reason I can't find it. I think it was from the Smash 4 days but I'm not sure. Maybe I just hallucinated it or I'm confusing Sakurai with someone else entirely.

I love how Smash kept Joker accurate to his origin game by giving him multiple Personas and just didn't stick to the most basic one.

 

[Shroob]

This time it's literally the plot. Gran/Djeeta is known as a singularity, which means that they are completely unaffected by fate and can change the fates of others so they basically just get to do what they want.

There are other singularities but they aren't the protagonist so I assume it's less of a big deal.

Also, while Gran is your typical anime protagonist, Djeeta (who I have seen referred to as "Whale-chan") is often portrayed as ridiculously confident and overpowered. This distinction probably wouldn't carry over to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate as much (at most it'd be the difference between male and female Corrin), but if it was I'd imagine a ton of people would really like her and less people would claim that she's generic.

Pretty much.

The anime portrays them in two completely different lights. Gran's a literal scrub, Djeeta has invested an ungodly amount of money into the game and 2shots everything.

 

[Teeb147]

I love how Smash kept Joker accurate to his origin game by giving him multiple Personas and just didn't stick to the most basic one.

Not to mention that persona (arsene) is gone pretty quick. I just.. fused it and got something else. Was I supposed to not do that? ;p

 

[osby]

Pretty much.

The anime portrays them in two completely different lights. Gran's a literal scrub, Djeeta has invested an ungodly amount of money into the game and 2shots everything.

That's literally just male Ritsuka Fujimaru vs Learning With Manga Gudako

 

[SharkLord]

Gran has Timbs that break everything in half. I think that's enough for him.

Byleth using 4 weapons as it is is clunky, unnatural, and sporadic. I hate to imagine what kind of moveset it would look like if you took all 11 of them and tried to make a functional moveset out of them.

Eh, I'm fine with it. They're a mercenary, like Ike. They're going to be pretty rough around the edges regardless, especially considering how Sothis literally just gave them the Relics because they weren't doing so hot with the sword alone.

 

[Shroob]

That's literally just male Ritsuka Fujimaru vs Learning With Manga Gudako

More or less yes

Except Djeeta isn't insane

 

[I.D.]

I love how Smash kept Joker accurate to his origin game by giving him multiple Personas and just didn't stick to the most basic one.

Nice try, but even Joker with just one Persona is infinitely more interesting than "Bartz from FFV but he's a freelancer only and can only swing his sword around" which is essentially what classless Gran/Djeeta would be.

Edit: It would be more akin to having Joker except he never summons a Persona at all.

 

[osby]

More or less yes

Except Djeeta isn't insane

How's that she's not insane if she actually spends real money for a gatcha game?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

2. Sakurai goes for a portrayal based on the much less popular and non-canon spin-off fighting game, that essentially turns the main characters into generic shotoclones for the sake of simplicity.

Eh, let's not kid ourselves though.

At least for lore purposes, that shoto-clone playstyle is their canon class. Anytime the game forces you into a story battle where you can't bring your own gear, it's always as the Fighter class.

It's worth keeping in mind that Gran/Djeeta doesn't have to be a beginner character in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and that the shoto archetype is absolutely not a beginner archetype in platform fighters. Combine that with the fact that Ryu and Ken exist and there's 0 chance that Gran/Djeeta would be a shoto. Infinitely more likely is Granblue Fantasy's unique mechanics being portrayed through their movesets.

Heck, they could even go as far as to make them an assist character with as much randomness as Hero to simulate the gaccha mechanics.

 

[Shroob]

How's that she's not insane if she actually spends real money for a gatcha game?

Easy

Spoiler: It's all V-Tuber si----donation money

 

[I.D.]

Okay, since this is just going to go in circles from now on and I doubt people are that interested in granblue conversation I'll say this as my last statement on the matter: to me thinking they could put the Granblue MCs without using the job system in any way is like thinking they could put Bartz from Final Fantasy V or Agnes from Bravely Default in the game without using the job system. Could they theoretically do it? Probably. But why? Who the hell would actually want that?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Easy

Spoiler: It's all V-Tuber si----donation money

Dang are those holograms?!? 'Cuz if it is Imma hafta quote Ash here:

"Wow! Science is so amazing!"



...Oh wait, did I just curse those things to explode?