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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Michael the Spikester

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I still say if any assist gets promoted its Waluigi. The outcry was just massive compared to Isaac and Shadow.

I mean it did make it onto this news site did it not? Can't exactly remember the name.
 

frozolloyd

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Curious question to everyone. Who do you think is the most slept on or dark horse pick this Pass could have?
Definitely the Chosen Undead from Dark Souls. Like when talking about Namco reps, the Tales of series is always brought up, KOS MOS usually has one or two people mention them, Digimon usually gets a mention and Nightmare is probably the second most brought up now a days, yet I have seen literally no one include the Chosen Undead in discussion. For me this is mind blowing, just because of how influential Dark Souls as a whole has been on the gaming industry and how famous the series is. If I were to put bets on a Namco rep, I think it would probably be between a Tales rep and Dark Souls.
 

SharkLord

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I don’t think Reimu is a dark horse pick by the sole virtue that she’s in the conversation in Smash speculation, which considering how narrow the scope it has is, makes her quite “brought-up”
I believe that would make her not a sleeper pick rather than a dark horse. At least, I think that's the definition.
From what I can gather, a sleeper pick would be someone who gets ignored despite having a fair bit going for them, while a dark horse would be someone with the odds stacked against them. I believe Terry and Joker would fit those definitions pretty well, perhaps more than Reimu. In addition, while Reimu gets brought up a fair bit nowadays, a lot of people still either ignore her or consider her unlikely, with knowledge on her varying.
She's still an indie character from a niche genre, much of her support is concentrated in Japan, and she's not usually associated with Nintendo (Even if she has had some Nintendo interaction before). I'd say that constitutes a dark horse character.
 

WeirdChillFever

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I believe that would make her not a sleeper pick rather than a dark horse. At least, I think that's the definition.
From what I can gather, a sleeper pick would be someone who gets ignored despite having a fair bit going for them, while a dark horse would be someone with the odds stacked against them. I believe Terry and Joker would fit those definitions pretty well, perhaps more than Reimu. In addition, while Reimu gets brought up a fair bit nowadays, a lot of people still either ignore her or consider her unlikely, with knowledge on her varying.
She's still an indie character from a niche genre, much of her support is concentrated in Japan, and she's not usually associated with Nintendo (Even if she has had some Nintendo interaction before). I'd say that constitutes a dark horse character.
Depending on that definition, yeah I’d say she’s a dark horse
 

cashregister9

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Curious question to everyone. Who do you think is the most slept on or dark horse pick this Pass could have?
Saber from Fate. she is from one of the largest franchises in japan and it even has decent popularity in the west.

EDT: Gran/Djeeta From Granblue Fantasy are also slept on
 
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SharkLord

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Saber from Fate. she is from one of the largest franchises in japan and it even has decent popularity in the west.
I've heard her name tossed around a couple times. I also hear the series is somewhat screwy and hard to keep track of, but I could be misinterpreting some things. Could someone give me a quick rundown of the whole thing?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Curious question to everyone. Who do you think is the most slept on or dark horse pick this Pass could have?
Agumon, Doom Slayer(only cause there's two interviews, and it's unclear the exact details of what the second interview is referring to when talking about "talks that Doom Slayer isn't happening", which could be either the original interview only referring to Pass 1 in context, or a later one we don't know about. I treat him as a gray area of disconfirmation with the two interviews existing), Sakura(I forget her last name, from Sakura Wars), anybody Microsoft that isn't Steve or Master Chief, Klonoa, The Prince(Katamari Darmacy), Prince of Persia, any Resident Evil character.

There's probably a lot more, but those are off the top of my head. I don't consider a Gen 8 rep really a darkhorse pick since there's a lot of discussion on it and many legitimately expect one anyway.
 

Guybrush20X6

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We're still in completely dark waters as regards to who could be next or even when. Sakurai may still be on track but I'm having my doubts about Nintendo.

Did we ever find out what the stuff about Granblue fantasy was?
 

cashregister9

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I've heard her name tossed around a couple times. I also hear the series is somewhat screwy and hard to keep track of, but I could be misinterpreting some things. Could someone give me a quick rundown of the whole thing?
Fate/Stay night was the first to release and it was a visual novel, The anime came out and gave it a big boost in popularity and that has many spin offs like Fate/Zero. Games continued to release culminating with the release of Fate/Grand Order which continues to be one of the biggest mobile games of all time. and games are still being made and even localized
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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I honestly don't think we can say interviews can confirm nor deconfirm. NDA's are a thing and Nintendo is one of the more strict to code followers of NDA's (look at Fire Emblem Three Houses when 2 voice actors were fired for breaking NDA's). I wouldn't take that interview too seriously. Who knows if they could be making it up for the sake of NDA.
However, if a character can be talked about outside NDA, that creates the assumption that there's no NDA around that character.

After all, silence or a non-answer is often the best answer when legal implications are involved.
 
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PLANTMAN

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Even if you’re under an NDA you can still talk about smash but you can’t say that said character is coming when ever it’s publishers, creators ,voice actors ,etc
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Curious question to everyone. Who do you think is the most slept on or dark horse pick this Pass could have?
Not that the franchise has ever huge in the States, nor is it necessarily on the hottest streak now, but I always thought someone from Yo-kai Watch like Jibanyan had a decent chance. At the very least its the kind of plausible (albeit likely underwhelming to many) release I could see happening.
 

Digital Hazard

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The thing that makes it even more blatant is the fact that first person shooters are, by definition, a subgenre of Action games, which make up half of the Action-Adventure subgenre. So like, there's no way to say it isn't an FPS. :V
It's amazing that there's people at all that deny the Prime series is a FPS.

Same for how people deny 2D Metroid is a platformer series, just a sub-genre.
I've heard her name tossed around a couple times. I also hear the series is somewhat screwy and hard to keep track of, but I could be misinterpreting some things. Could someone give me a quick rundown of the whole thing?
Oh boy... Alright, here's a bit of a rundown:

Fate/stay night was a visual novel released in 2004, like many VNs it has routes, 3 to be exact. The route for Saber herself received an anime (that wasn't very good) in 2006; the second route focusing on the character Rin Tohsaka was also made into an anime in 2015, called Unlimited Blade Works. The third route, Heaven's Feel, focusing on Sakura Matou, which is currently been animated into a series of movie, 2 already released, and the final one this year.

It has a sequel visual novel released in 2005, Fate/hollow ataraxia, which is generally much lighthearted but still has a plot, hasn't been animated, but has a couple of mangas. The prequel to all of this, Fate/Zero, is a series of light novels that received an anime adaptation in 2011.

Absolutely every single other thing is a spinoff that doesn't requires previous knowledge, but it's highly recommended one gets to Stay Night, Zero, and Hollow Ataraxia first.

tl;dr: Stay Night, Zero and Hollow Ataraxia are the "main" works while everything else is secondary. One can get into the series by anything, it's simply easier to grasp things on by first getting to the first three.

"But what about the massive mobile game of which everyone keeps making lewd drawings of its waifus?"

Again, it is technically a spinoff with its own story and lore, the most profitable thing in the series no doubt, but you don't require previous knowledge, it's just recommended.
 
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SnowClaws

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Curious question to everyone. Who do you think is the most slept on or dark horse pick this Pass could have?
I have a lot of dark horse pick for this Pass, but I feel like I am going to be repeating myself often, if I mention them again. So I limit my choice with the one that sort of caught my interest right now.

Skullomania (Fighting EX Layer), after all, Arika did help Nintendo with developing Tetris 99.
Asuka or Yumi (Senran Kagura) or someone from Rune Factory for a Marvelous pick.
Ayane or Kasumi (Dead or Alive), the Koei Tecmo pick over Ryu Hayabusa, Dynasty Warriors, and the Atelier series.
 

Arcanir

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I honestly don't think we can say interviews can confirm nor deconfirm. NDA's are a thing and Nintendo is one of the more strict to code followers of NDA's (look at Fire Emblem Three Houses when 2 voice actors were fired for breaking NDA's). I wouldn't take that interview too seriously. Who knows if they could be making it up for the sake of NDA.
They could've, but we also have to take into consideration that they aren't lying. While it is true that we had a case like Grant Kirkhope where he gave a pretty cheeky answer with his 'I wouldn't hold your breath' comment, we also have cases like Erica Lindbeck (Celica), Skye Bennett (Pyra), and Hideo Kojima (Snake in Smash 4), Kosube Yabuki (ARMs with base Ultimate) and Kenji Inafune (Mega Man with Brawl) where they're being completely genuine when they say that they haven't heard anything. So if the developers in that interview are saying 'we tried, but it didn't work out', then it's something that should be kept in mind when speculating about the character as they can be telling the truth about them.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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They could've, but we also have to take into consideration that they aren't lying. While it is true that we had a case like Grant Kirkhope where he gave a pretty cheeky answer with his 'I wouldn't hold your breath' comment, we also have cases like Erica Lindbeck (Celica), Skye Bennett (Pyra), and Hideo Kojima (Snake in Smash 4), Kosube Yabuki (ARMs with base Ultimate) and Kenji Inafune (Mega Man with Brawl) where they're being completely genuine when they say that they haven't heard anything. So if the developers in that interview are saying 'we tried, but it didn't work out', then it's something that should be kept in mind when speculating about the character as they can be telling the truth about them.
also cristina vee had to shut down speculation for her new voice role cause people thought it was Shantae for smash. surprise it was actually fortnite
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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With NDA's, they'd have to deny it no matter what or stay silent. It's not one or the other.

That said, a lot of people who say "nope" are not under NDA anyway. It's possible they are. NDA's are fickle and only have at most a rule that they cannot say it's actually happening. They can be harsher and force them to give no comment, or allowing for them say "it's not happening" like Grand Kirkhope did. If they deny it, it's probably the case they were not under NDA.

It's the exact opposite of leaks. Most are fake. With people denying a character is in, it's usually true. Maybe not the best analogy, but it's somewhat close to the idea.
 

Guynamednelson

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also cristina vee had to shut down speculation for her new voice role cause people thought it was Shantae for smash. surprise it was actually fortnite
There were also people who thought it'd be Edelgard. This is before knowing the final game would replace her with Tara Platt, in case you're wondering.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Happy birthday Sakurai. Thanks for giving us one of the best gaming franchises ever. How much you've poured your heart out for us to make even the seemingly impossible and biggest crossover ever shows how much you care for us and we couldn't be happier.

You definitely don't deserve us. You have already done enough as it is but clearly gaming and working on them is your passion and we can't stop you from doing that so keep doing what you love.

You're definitely one of the best game developers for sure. :)
 
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SKX31

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I still say if any assist gets promoted its Waluigi. The outcry was just massive compared to Isaac and Shadow.

I mean it did make it onto this news site did it not? Can't exactly remember the name.
Washington Post reported on Waluigi's disconfirmation - with the article comparing him to Daisy's inclusion:

Nothing prepared them for the Nintendo equivalent of a “Game of Thrones”-style Walk of Atonement for Waluigi.

First, they announced Princess Daisy as an “echo fighter.” Who as a what now? Exactly, but give me a few seconds to explain.
Princess Daisy is an obscure character who first appeared as the stand-in distressed damsel in Super Mario Land for the original Game Boy in 1989. She didn’t resurface until Mario Tennis in 2000, which was also Waluigi’s first appearance.

Since the turn of the century, both characters have been relegated to spinoff Mario games, usually involving sports or group activities. They attend Mario parties. They drive Mario karts. They play soccer, golf and more tennis.
Suddenly, in 2018, Daisy is now an “echo character,” which means that in the game, she has the same fighting moves as another character, but you can play as her. It’s sort of like being a “featured player” on SNL. You’re there, but you’re not really quite in the club yet. The fact that Daisy (long rumored to be Luigi’s love interest) is playable before Waluigi is already savage.

It gets worse. Suddenly, 17 minutes into the presentation, Waluigi makes an appearance. And it is yet another affront to decency. Waluigi is a mere “assist” character. Assist trophies are basically soulless effigies of other characters that players can pick up, bringing the depicted creature to life for mere seconds. They’re golems.
New to this game, Nintendo excitedly announces, you can KO them! You score a point for it! And who better to showcase this macabre new feature?
And WaPo's one of the most famous newspapers / sites around, so that article got at least some attention / spread.

on a side note

today is Sakurai's birthday!
He's 50 now! What a career.

His age is what got me wondering if he'll manage a Smash 6 (if it starts production in 4-5 years or so just as a hypotheoretical), but still, he's done tons of amazing work. Especially his work on the Smash series: creating 5 Smash games that wound up interesting on their own accords is no small feat. All 5 games being interesting and unique from both from a competitive and casual standpoint.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Thanks that's what it was.

For the sake of his health too I hope the next game Sakurai does is a smaller one like Kid Icarus 2. I really wish the first one could be ported to the Switch. I really want to play it.
 

PLANTMAN

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Curious question to everyone. Who do you think is the most slept on or dark horse pick this Pass could have?
Sol badguy

seriously y’all are sleeping on a big deal here when it comes to moveset & content

there’s even a 2 part thread somewhere in this site which has stuff he could bring to smash

am I right Cutie Gwen Cutie Gwen ?
 
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venomthebest

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fun little exercise, who do you think would the monster hunter costumes go well with like they did the heihachi costume for the arms "fighting game" character?
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Sol badguy

seriously y’all are sleeping on a big deal here when it comes to moveset & content

there’s even a 2 part thread somewhere in this site which has stuff he could bring to smash

am I right Cutie Gwen Cutie Gwen ?
Sol's indeed a ****ing fantastic choice but a darkhorse is a character who's unexpected or surprising, Sol gets frequent discussion on this thread to the point all the regulars here who never touched an ArcSys game at least know who Sol is, I personally don't think darkhorse would be the right term for him anymore
 

Rie Sonomura

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fun little exercise, who do you think would the monster hunter costumes go well with like they did the heihachi costume for the arms "fighting game" character?
drop em with anyone really idc

would fit best with a RPG character tho
 

ArkSPiTFirE

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I still say if any assist gets promoted its Waluigi. The outcry was just massive compared to Isaac and Shadow.

I mean it did make it onto this news site did it not? Can't exactly remember the name.
Isaac's outcry was still pretty big, maybe not news worthy because Isaac isn't a meme. I think the worst part was leaving it to the very last direct to tell us he was an assist trophy, after all the incorrect speculation had been built up. It hurt.

Also I don't think there's a queue to get out of Assist Trophy status, with Waluigi being at the front. Nintendo/Sakurai are going to pick the character they want or will fit best for their plan (whether thats for marketablility or fan demand) and we'll just have to see who they choose. It's not really a question about who's more deserving to get their big break.

You could be right that there's just one though, but there's such a good pool of demanded characters in the assist trophies that I don't think more than one is even out of the question.
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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Most every character in Smash Speculation is "slept on" in one way or another. The term is largely subjective and spans a wide variety of characters, as everyone has different opinions on what characters meet this vague criteria.

The term "slept on" has been used so much that it's become cliché and lost all meaning. Most of the characters I've seen named so far are far from "slept on," and see semi-regular discussion both here and abroad in other communities.

The real "slept on" characters are the ones most of us won't consider we actually see them in the game.
 
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Hydreigonfan01

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fun little exercise, who do you think would the monster hunter costumes go well with like they did the heihachi costume for the arms "fighting game" character?
Dante would be cool, the Monster Hunter costume looks like Sin Devil Trigger Dante anyway and it'd go with a Capcom rep.
 

Cosmic77

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I don't really know if there's any character who I definitely feel like people are sleeping on.

Honestly, I could list a lot characters I want who could easily end up getting absolutely nothing, and then I'd realize that people were right about sleeping on their chances.
 

MooMew64

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Can't say anyone on my personal wishlist is "slept on" as most of the ones that others would think are unlikely are probably right for thinking so, lol.

Characters like Octoling, Yuri Lowell, Eggman, and Waluigi really don't have great odds given the precedents we've seen in DLC so far, so I don't blame anyone for thinking that they're probably not happening. Only realistic wants I have ATM are Arle, Kiryu, Cinderace, Steve, and maaaybe a Kirby character if Kirby lucks out and gets a promotional pick for an upcoming game.

As for characters that I've speculated on that feel like slept on picks? Bravely and Tomb Raider would fit that rather well, I think.
 
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Curious question to everyone. Who do you think is the most slept on or dark horse pick this Pass could have?
I don't know about the dark horse thing. If I'm remembering right, the entire idea behind the term is that nobody knows the entity, and so betting on it (in actual horse racing) could go either way. The horse could have the best or the worst shot at winning. Nobody knows. In Smash, we'd be talking about an IP nobody knows about: either something new or an old obscure property that we don't know is going to get a big push. The other way to define it would be that an existing character's chances of happening are incredibly ambiguous, but that covers just about every character under the sun.

For a slept on character, whether they are likely or not, I'd say someone from Falcom or Koei Tecmo (besides Ryu). I don't know that I expect them, but I guess that's the point. Not a lot of people do.

Overall, I don't think any character is in the lead for likelihood right now. There's no clear path that DLC will take, so it's hard to make any solid guesses.
 
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