Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

I think Sakurai is actually not too keen on having more DLC. I feel like he thought the Base and FP1 was a complete package, designing the UI to accompany that, and given how he talked about there being more characters in the B&K presentation (something along the lines of “the finish line keeps going further and further away”). I picture it as Sakurai would prefer ending Ultimate as soon as possible so that he can move on to something else, but if Nintendo thinks it’s profitable to make more he likes being able to add more for the fans and to continue expanding on his record. I think both can simultaneously be true and it matches what he said. As such, I don’t expect a FP3 unless FP2 sells exceptionally well.

As for non-character DLC and updates—While I don’t expect it, I would love returning stages like Pac-Maze. There’s another one, but can’t recall it at the moment. I’d also like Break the Targets and Board the Platforms, as I loved how each character had unique platforming challenges and trying to do them all—the bonus stage in Classic Mode is so boring because every character has the same one. But I see that as necessary as making one for every character seems crazy. Maybe make 20-30, and then pick characters that fit those stages, since there’s going to be some crossover anyways. But ideally each character would have a unique one, with unique assets/color schemes.

Outside of that, not much when it comes to modes. I’d like bosses and assist trophies for DLC characters (e.g., Jack Frost, Gruntilda/Mumbo, etc). Something to make them feel more like base game characters, as well as adding to WOL.

I’d like to also be able to pick what assist characters pop up. So, for instance, if I wanted Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow and Shovel Knight in a game I’d enable them in the rules, that way I could choose to play with them rather than waiting on random chance. Closest thing is training mode, and that’s not ideal. Those are the main changes and additions I’d like to see.

>adding to WoL

how so? Funny enough I got some WoL-related ideas that aren’t the obvious Very Hard Mode: Boss Rush (which presumably would include Galeem and Dharkon), Free Play As Master Hand Mode without having to do new WoL files each time (like Galactus Mode in UMvC3), and uhhhhh.... using the possession/light and dark clone effects outside of WoL? Hero’s trailer DID show it was possible and I’d like to see trailers that use the Light Realm effect and phantom effects but that’s beside the point

they’d of course all be unlocked upon beating WoL with the true ending for the first time, just like with the menu music

 

[CosmicQuark]

>adding to WoL

how so? Funny enough I got some WoL-related ideas that aren’t the obvious Very Hard Mode: Boss Rush (which presumably would include Galeem and Dharkon), Free Play As Master Hand Mode without having to do new WoL files each time (like Galactus Mode in UMvC3), and uhhhhh.... using the possession/light and dark clone effects outside of WoL? Hero’s trailer DID show it was possible and I’d like to see trailers that use the Light Realm effect and phantom effects but that’s beside the point

they’d of course all be unlocked upon beating WoL with the true ending for the first time, just like with the menu music

To incorporate the DLC character’s series more into it. Though, I haven’t played WOL so I’m not sure how it would work, but from the appearance it looks like given it’s a board they could add new areas to it, include new DLC bosses and fights with DLC characters. Something that adds to it that wasn’t in the base game, but I’m not familiar with the intricacies so I’m not sure how that would work in practice.

 

[Heoj]

At the same time though, they could've put Akira and Jacky with the other SEGA costumes that came with Joker, or put Heihachi with the Fighter genre costumes that came with Terry, but in both cases they got pushed off to a future set. Geno's not being with the SE costumes that came with Hero can just as easily mean that they didn't want to release him with that set, which has a reason for not having him due to the aforementioned DQ theme.

I think the heihachi point is relevant but you cant really use the akira and jacky miis as joker already had a full set of 6 miis, 4 persona miis and 2 sonic miis.
Again, the heihachi point still stands, but the way i see it, the theme still sort of fits.

I also personally just dont understand the whole thing about them purposefully excluding geno and chocobo just cuz they wanted to keep it dragon quest focused, like geno and chocobo arent premium costumes/large western surprises so they cant overshadow dragon quest.

So there is an interesting thing to note about the update.



Min Min got a different specific fighter spirit and her old spirit remained in the game unchanged.

However, they did talk about Spirit upgrades happening in the future. At first, I thought Sakurai was talking about spirit->costume upgrades as well as spirit->fighter upgrades. But he was definitely only talking about spirit->costume upgrade, with the cuphead example, because fighters get their own separate spirit.



This means at least one spirit will be upgraded into a deluxe costume during this pass, probably several. The obvious candidate is Geno, he is also the only one missing costume from Smash 4 that is also a spirit. At this point, I think Geno has 95% chance of being a deluxe mii costume, his proportions and moveset fit so well.



Besides Geno, what spirit do you think would work well as a deluxe mii costume ?

For example, I think Bomberman would work well visually, but the moveset doesn't really fit with any mii fighter.

Rayman could also work visually, if they can remove the limbs. But even as a brawler, the moveset would be weird for him.

I also dont understand how people think genos gonna get the "deluxe" treatment, i mean all mii costumes, "deluxe" or not, all cost the same amount of money,plus since geno already has a smash 4 costume, why would they spend resources enhancing an already existing decent costume into a better looking costume thats anyways going to cost the same amount of money.

Imo genos fate comes down to either playable or the old costume comes back, though imo playable is a lot more likely.
(or even both)

 

[Speed Weed]

I've seen a lot of speculation that includes phrases like "I don't want [character] cause I didn't play [game]" or "cause I played [game] and couldn't get into it" a lot.
Makes me wonder, do you guys have any wants where you want the character for them as a character or their fan demand but don't care about nor have ever played their game(s)?

Like, I got one myself in my odd desire for Tracer. Never played Overwatch and don't intend to ever, but I really like the animations and think Tracer could be a weird and fun character regardless.
I also used to have the opposite of this with . I adore the games and their character, but I just had no interest in them as a fighter since I expected it to be pretty simple. Got over it a bit when they came out and saw their gorgeous rendition, but they still aren't anything that excites me or that I want to play particularly.

i've never played cave story but quote seems like a pretty cool guy

Yeah that sister series died too

to be a part of takamaru gang is to suffer

I’d prefer Elma but there’s a far cry from preferring Elma over Rex to being anti-Rex.

yo **** both of them gimme zeke

 

[Jomosensual]

I've seen a lot of speculation that includes phrases like "I don't want [character] cause I didn't play [game]" or "cause I played [game] and couldn't get into it" a lot.
Makes me wonder, do you guys have any wants where you want the character for them as a character or their fan demand but don't care about nor have ever played their game(s)?

Like, I got one myself in my odd desire for Tracer. Never played Overwatch and don't intend to ever, but I really like the animations and think Tracer could be a weird and fun character regardless.
I also used to have the opposite of this with . I adore the games and their character, but I just had no interest in them as a fighter since I expected it to be pretty simple. Got over it a bit when they came out and saw their gorgeous rendition, but they still aren't anything that excites me or that I want to play particularly.

There's likely more but Akira from Astral Chain and Travis Touchdown are my top 2. I don't even think I'd like playing as Akira either, but Astral Chain feels like it made a big enough splash as a new first party series to get a playable rep. There's also pretty much all the RE characters that I'd like in the game too even though I've only played RE3

 

[volbound1700]

I think Sakurai is actually not too keen on having more DLC. I feel like he thought the Base and FP1 was a complete package, designing the UI to accompany that, and given how he talked about there being more characters in the B&K presentation (something along the lines of “the finish line keeps going further and further away”). I picture it as Sakurai would prefer ending Ultimate as soon as possible so that he can move on to something else, but if Nintendo thinks it’s profitable to make more he likes being able to add more for the fans and to continue expanding on his record. I think both can simultaneously be true and it matches what he said. As such, I don’t expect a FP3 unless FP2 sells exceptionally well.

As for non-character DLC and updates—While I don’t expect it, I would love returning stages like Pac-Maze. There’s another one, but can’t recall it at the moment. I’d also like Break the Targets and Board the Platforms, as I loved how each character had unique platforming challenges and trying to do them all—the bonus stage in Classic Mode is so boring because every character has the same one. But I see that as necessary as making one for every character seems crazy. Maybe make 20-30, and then pick characters that fit those stages, since there’s going to be some crossover anyways. But ideally each character would have a unique one, with unique assets/color schemes.

Outside of that, not much when it comes to modes. I’d like bosses and assist trophies for DLC characters (e.g., Jack Frost, Gruntilda/Mumbo, etc). Something to make them feel more like base game characters, as well as adding to WOL.

I’d like to also be able to pick what assist characters pop up. So, for instance, if I wanted Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow and Shovel Knight in a game I’d enable them in the rules, that way I could choose to play with them rather than waiting on random chance. Closest thing is training mode, and that’s not ideal. Those are the main changes and additions I’d like to see.

I agree that FP2 is likely to be the last one. I think it is a matter of timing. If Nintendo starts to move on to a new console around 2022, then I would NOT expect a FP3. Also COVID-19 is likely slowing down the team's ability to add DLC.

However, I get the impressions from all of the Sakurai directs that he wants to continue it and is pushing the DLC add so I don't agree with your comments about Sakurai. He probably has a lighter schedule working on DLC vs. Base Game and is able to enjoy life more. Who wouldn't want to be in that position? If Sakurai didn't like doing it, he could step away and have a member of his team take over as Director to finish it out. However, I get from his comments that he is enjoying the DLC process (more so than he enjoyed the base game. I think he got burnt out with Smash in the past but I don't read it as being the case this time around).

I don't expect a major Game Mod add such as an expansion to WOL. That would be too difficult. Small modes is what to expect. The most likely mode that could appear is boss rematches based off Spirits in the Spirit Board (i.e. Dracula spirit allows you to fight Dracula in boss stage).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Anyway.

spirit event tonight. POSSIBLY a new series.

who do you expect?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

This has already been discussed but I don't visit Smashboards much anymore (partly because the rumors and being busy). However, there are rumors about a Fighter Pass 3. I wanted to give my input.

From the persona provided by Sakurai in the Min Min Direct, I think he wants to keep going and is enjoying adding to Smash Ultimate. However, COVID-19 is going to have a major impact and slow down his work and the work of the team. I think it won't be a matter of Sakurai's desire for a FP3 but rather can he do it in the Switch's life span and whether COVID-19 will continue to slowdown his work.

Nintendo is likely reviewing the next console leap. Granted, I think Switch will have a long life because it is still popular and it combines Nintendo's handheld and console market together (that was the best aspect of the system).

What is everyone's thoughts? I would also love to see non-character DLC similar to the spirit rematch options. A Smash Run or Break the Targets mode would be great as paid DLC.

I'm hoping that Smash Ultimate DLC continues until the end of the Switch's life span because there are many other third party characters I'd like to see get in so I'm hoping this pass is mostly third party characters about a four to two ratio. I'm not fussed about whether they do Fighter Passes or not but the least they do is show how many characters they are planning to make, it's just annoying that we have to guess who those characters are going to be.

I'd rather see first parties get in the next game in the series where the roster is exclusively from Nintendo franchises.

Besides Geno, what spirit do you think would work well as a deluxe mii costume ?
For example, I think Bomberman would work well visually, but the moveset doesn't really fit with any mii fighter.
Rayman could also work visually, if they can remove the limbs. But even as a brawler, the moveset would be weird for him.

Yooka Laylee could be a good PreMiium costume. Shovel Knight should definitely get one too. I just think PreMiium costumes should be saved for Indie characters so even if none of them get in as playable characters, they can always have one soundtrack from their game to be put in the game,

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Anyway.

spirit event tonight. POSSIBLY a new series.

who do you expect?

Maybe they'll have one with the DLC ARMS fighters like Lola Pop, Misango, Dr. Coyle, and Springtron.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Anyway.

spirit event tonight. POSSIBLY a new series.

who do you expect?

Assuming Paper Mario himself isn't in the pipeline, promo spirits for The Origami King.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Maybe they'll have one with the DLC ARMS fighters like Lola Pop, Misango, Dr. Coyle, and Springtron.

I don't know what's up with their lack of spirits. Min Min's Classic Mode? There's a battle referencing Dr. Coyle. Spring Stadium? They show up in the background screens and their themes can play.

Oh well, we got brand new spirit battles for a couple base game ARMS spirits so it's not like we're fully using old content.

 

[Jomosensual]

Anyway.

spirit event tonight. POSSIBLY a new series.

who do you expect?

It's been a while since we had a series spirit event so I'm guessing we get one today. IDK which one

 

[Perkilator]

Anyway.

spirit event tonight. POSSIBLY a new series.

who do you expect?

It's been a while since we've had a tournament, actually. Maybe we'll get THAT instead?

 

[SneakyLink]

It's been a while since we had a series spirit event so I'm guessing we get one today. IDK which one

Since Min Min released, next has to be her obligatory first event tourney.

Assuming we get anything this week... we didn't when Hero or Byleth released.

 

[Cosmic77]

Regardless of whether or not they should've included the other SE costumes with Hero, I think Heihachi makes it clear that none of the DLC Mii costumes from Smash 4 are in the clear. Lots of people thought a Tekken character was on the table after Heihachi wasn't announced with Terry, but then he randomly comes back with Vault Boy and the Squid Sisters.

I don't think characters like Lloyd or Geno are in a better position than they were a few weeks ago. There are five character bundles left, and only six DLC Mii costumes remain MIA.

 

[volbound1700]

Playing the Spirits outside of WOL is a lot more fun. WOL got boring to me after awhile. I have only played it through once. It just drags so much trying to go through and beat all of the spirits. There also isn't any organization to the Spirits. Having a Mario section, Kirby section, Legend of Zelda section, Indie section, Classic section, etc. would have been a lot more fun. The Street Fighter section really stands out to me and is enjoyable but most of the rest of it was meh. The Final Boss fight was fun as well but it take so long to fight through to that part.

The new Spirit rematch is fun because I can go and just play through series now which is what I wish they had done with WOL.

 

[Faso115]

Here hoping Undertale gets spirits

 

[Knight Dude]

If the whole pass goes by and Crash doesn't get in, at least i have this picture as a consolation price

Whoever drew this is a Chad for including not only that girl Regina, but also that dude Raziel.

 

[SneakyLink]

Here hoping Undertale gets spirits

Of all the DLC Mii Costumes, we have no spirits for the following:
Persona 4 and Persona 3 protagonists
Teddie
Veronica (solo)
Erdrick (well, that specific armor)
Martial Artist
Goemon
Team Rocket (actually, only human characters from Pokémon who are spirits are the two trainers)
Jacky Bryant
Altaïr
Rabbids (not counting the Mario x Rabbids characters)
Heihachi
Vault Boy

 

[Guynamednelson]

Teddie

Heihachi

These characters are still represented in some other form, however: Teddie makes a cameo on P4 Mementos and Heihachi can appear in Pac-Man's Namco Roulette.

 

[Knight Dude]

Anyway.

spirit event tonight. POSSIBLY a new series.

who do you expect?

Something to disappoint me. Killer Instinct Spirit event here we gooooooooooo........

 

[Jomosensual]

Something to disappoint me. Killer Instinct Spirit event here we gooooooooooo........

Don't put that idea in my head. I'd feel like a dumb ass if my recent KI could be the next Microsoft rep push ended like a week after I started it

 

[Calamitas]

Anyway.

spirit event tonight. POSSIBLY a new series.

who do you expect?

Maybe they'll give us some new Spirits based on Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition? I could see them adding the likes of Alvis, Tyrea, Dickson and Kallian.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think there's been quite a few hasty judgments in the last 12-15 hours since Min Min came out. The revelation of Min Min getting a separate Fighter Spirit, in my humble opinion, didn't really tell us something we didn't already know. Any potential Spirit Upgrade prospect will receive new artwork as their Fighter Spirit, and it's entirely possible that they don't do anything to change the Spirit that is already present.

From most folks I've talked to, Rex seems like an upgrade candidate in good shape. A protagonist of his own game, was considered (by Sakurai) for base game, and his absence was compensated for with the Mii Costume. The only thing with Rex is that, in my opinion, the longer we go without him, the less likely it seems he's in. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is, as of today, about 2.5 years old. While ARMS is 3 years old and got Min Min, I'd say Xenoblade is just a bit different considering the genre and ways that the characters within each respective series exist.

That said, I think Rex is looking good right now.

Geno...I think we need to pump the breaks. Not only does he have history as a Mii Costume (which we've yet to see a DLC upgrade from), but he could absolutely be a Premium costume, or just come back as normal. We have to remember, while Geno is a major pillar of fan demand right now he's still:
- a party member from a generations old Mario game
- owned by a different company
- Nintendo is choosing the characters, not Sakurai (or at least he isn't as much the "sole" person choosing)

Now, these things don't mean he's toast. It's just that Square Enix hasn't used him, and Nintendo would likely only choose him on the basis of fan demand. Again, it doesn't mean he WON'T be added, but he's far from a lock.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Here hoping Undertale gets spirits

Hope you like fighting Vault-Boy, Brotherhood of Steel member, and Super Mutant instead.

 

[frozolloyd]

Regardless of whether or not they should've included the other SE costumes with Hero, I think Heihachi makes it clear that none of the DLC Mii costumes from Smash 4 are in the clear. Lots of people thought a Tekken character was on the table after Heihachi wasn't announced with Terry, but then he randomly comes back with Vault Boy and the Squid Sisters.

I don't think characters like Lloyd or Geno are in a better position than they were a few weeks ago. There are five character bundles left, and only six DLC Mii costumes remain MIA.

I'm sorry, maybe I missed the people stating this opinion, but did anyone actually say these things before the Heihachi costume? I thought the thought process was ALWAYS that if the character didn't come back as a character, they were going to come back as a mii costume again. All the mii costume being missing means, in my opinon, was that the character has the potential to be put in a playable spot, unless the costume is confirmed to come back. Personally, I think its a bit silly to say "guys Nintendo are not going to choose Lloyd or Geno because they had mii costume in the PREVIOUS game", because at that point, it very much sounds like making a fanrule to gatekeep. Is it possible they randomly return? Absolutely, I just think its way too early to count them out, especially in a game that already upgraded 4 mii costumes from the last game (but that's base game... it totally doesn't count). Also, since no one has said it in this thread yet, daily reminder that even if Lloyd wasn't in consideration because of his mii costume, that there are other protagonist they could choose from the Tales of series (and have Lloyd's mii costume return with), including Yuri, who has a game on the switch currently.

 

[SharkLord]

A couple pages back I think I saw someone jokingly suggest Nia as the XC2 rep. The funny thing is, given the spoileriffic thingamabobber going on with her, she could arguably represent the game's concepts almost as well as Rex, if not the game itself.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think there's been quite a few hasty judgments in the last 12-15 hours since Min Min came out. The revelation of Min Min getting a separate Fighter Spirit, in my humble opinion, didn't really tell us something we didn't already know. Any potential Spirit Upgrade prospect will receive new artwork as their Fighter Spirit, and it's entirely possible that they don't do anything to change the Spirit that is already present.

From most folks I've talked to, Rex seems like an upgrade candidate in good shape. A protagonist of his own game, was considered (by Sakurai) for base game, and his absence was compensated for with the Mii Costume. The only thing with Rex is that, in my opinion, the longer we go without him, the less likely it seems he's in. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is, as of today, about 2.5 years old. While ARMS is 3 years old and got Min Min, I'd say Xenoblade is just a bit different considering the genre and ways that the characters within each respective series exist.

That said, I think Rex is looking good right now.

Geno...I think we need to pump the breaks. Not only does he have history as a Mii Costume (which we've yet to see a DLC upgrade from), but he could absolutely be a Premium costume, or just come back as normal. We have to remember, while Geno is a major pillar of fan demand right now he's still:
- a party member from a generations old Mario game
- owned by a different company
- Nintendo is choosing the characters, not Sakurai (or at least he isn't as much the "sole" person choosing)

Now, these things don't mean he's toast. It's just that Square Enix hasn't used him, and Nintendo would likely only choose him on the basis of fan demand. Again, it doesn't mean he WON'T be added, but he's far from a lock.

I mostly agree, though I do think Min Min's Spirit was notable in the sense that we now know exactly how duplicates will be handled. Any character with an existing Spirit can be given alternate artwork and have (Fighter) added to the end of their name without any reworking of the orginal Spirit.

I'm sorry, maybe I missed the people stating this opinion, but did anyone actually say these things before the Heihachi costume? I thought the thought process was ALWAYS that if the character didn't come back as a character, they were going to come back as a mii costume again. All the mii costume being missing means, in my opinon, was that the character has the potential to be put in a playable spot, unless the costume is confirmed to come back. Personally, I think its a bit silly to say "guys Nintendo are not going to choose Lloyd or Geno because they had mii costume in the PREVIOUS game", because at that point, it very much sounds like making a fanrule to gatekeep. Is it possible they randomly return? Absolutely, I just think its way too early to count them out, especially in a game that already upgraded 4 mii costumes from the last game (but that's base game... it totally doesn't count). Also, since no one has said it in this thread yet, daily reminder that even if Lloyd wasn't in consideration because of his mii costume, that there are other protagonist they could choose from the Tales of series (and have Lloyd's mii costume return with), including Yuri, who has a game on the switch currently.

I'm not counting either out, but I do think it's a little silly for anyone to rate their chances of getting in higher than what they were before Heihachi. That costume returning wasn't necessarily a good thing.

 

[DarthEnderX]

There's a few others, actually.

- ThruSpace, a Wiiware game with a 3DS sequel called Ketzal's Corridors (which like Doshin, had a trophy in Smash before this),
- Endless Ocean, a duo of scuba-diving games for the Wii that were actually pretty popular
And in terms of other stange omissions,
- Odama, a bizarre pinball/strategy hybrid from the mind behind Seaman
- Time Twist, a text adventure game for the Famicom that came out REALLY late in it's lifespan and inevitably was never released over here
- Uniracers, a game made to show that the SNES didn't need any of that fancy blast processing to make things go fast, but it was legally screwed over because Pixar thought they owned the idea of a unicycle that moves on it's own
- Flipnote Studio, an absurdly popular DSi app with a disappointing 3DS successor and it baffles me they didn't make the frog a spirit
- Color TV-Game 15, which is particularly weird because it's in the game as an assist trophy

Several of those aren't multi-game?

"The party continues! Firstly, the contents of these 6 DLC sets has already been decided. Secondly, there are no plans to make more beyond this. In other words, after we finish putting all our effort into these, work on Smash Bros Ultimate will finally be finished."

No plans isn't definative though, as plans can change. Especially over 2 years.

 

[ZelDan]

Yeah, Geno isn't a lock, and I don't think his chances are THAT good. I'm not saying he won't make it in at all, but I don't feel he's "highly likely."

Granted, I honestly don't know if I feel any character is "likely." There's alot of characters that have legacy or popularity or have something going in their favor, yes, but there's only 5 slots for all these most speculated characters to take. That, and I definitely feel like Sakurai will have a curveball or 2 in FP2. You know, characters like Terry, who flew under many peoples' radars but actually made perfect sense as a Smash inclusion. I doubt the rest of FP2 will be nothing but characters that the Smash fanbase has speculated or predicted ad nauseum.

The closest to a "likely" character to me is probably Rex, and even then I could just as easily see him not make it.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I feel the main problem with Geno is that he’s basically only popular in the Smash community. Banjo is the obvious comparison to Geno, but his games sold better than Mario RPG back in the day. Banjo is also the main character of those games instead of being a side character next to freakin’ Mario, Peach & Bowser.

The Banjo games have also become cult classics in the past decade due to various YouTube videos about the series. This has helped him become more recognizable even with younger generations &/or those who haven’t played the Banjo games.

So his inclusion was for more than just the Smash community, Banjo is much more well known despite being a “dead” series.

So it all comes down to how much Nintendo, Square & Sakurai want to please the hardcore Smash fans. Especially when Geno is up against several Square characters who please Smash fans as well as a legion of game characters outside of Square too.

I’m not saying it’s impossible but it’s not a lock either.

 

[DarthEnderX]

To be honest, I thought Min Min being an upgraded Spirit more or less showed that Spirits no longer disconfirmed, and I assumed there would be a new Spirit for her.

And there was! Her Fighter Spirit.

Obviously, what we need now is for all the Fighters to ALSO get NON-Fighter Spirits. So it's equal.

Hell, the artwork for them is even in the game already, since all the Fighter Spirits have non-Smash alternate artwork.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I mostly agree, though I do think Min Min's Spirit was notable in the sense that we now know exactly how duplicates will be handled. Any character with an existing Spirit can be given alternate artwork and have (Fighter) added to the end of their name without any reworking of the orginal Spirit.

Yeah, I think that's key. Like others have said, at this point it's clear that Spirits aren't a hard disconfirmation, but it truly depends on the individual character.

So it's not that the Spirits "disconfirm" a character. What will keep a character out of contention (despite us not knowing it) would be circumstances related to that specific character. Like for Rex, the spirit isn't what would keep him out, but Nintendo could opt to not use him because they may consider XC2 as not worth including (though I'm not sure I would agree with that).

But yeah, I'm with you here.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Obviously, what we need now is for all the Fighters to ALSO get NON-Fighter Spirits. So it's equal.

Do things like Tennis Mario count?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Do things like Tennis Mario count?

Nope. Neither of Min Min's spirits have a modifier.

Well, one says (Fighter), but they're both just regular Min Min. One isn't, like, Waitress Min Min.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I agree that FP2 is likely to be the last one. I think it is a matter of timing. If Nintendo starts to move on to a new console around 2022, then I would NOT expect a FP3. Also COVID-19 is likely slowing down the team's ability to add DLC.

However, I get the impressions from all of the Sakurai directs that he wants to continue it and is pushing the DLC add so I don't agree with your comments about Sakurai. He probably has a lighter schedule working on DLC vs. Base Game and is able to enjoy life more. Who wouldn't want to be in that position? If Sakurai didn't like doing it, he could step away and have a member of his team take over as Director to finish it out. However, I get from his comments that he is enjoying the DLC process (more so than he enjoyed the base game. I think he got burnt out with Smash in the past but I don't read it as being the case this time around).

I don't expect a major Game Mod add such as an expansion to WOL. That would be too difficult. Small modes is what to expect. The most likely mode that could appear is boss rematches based off Spirits in the Spirit Board (i.e. Dracula spirit allows you to fight Dracula in boss stage).

To clarify, I didn’t say he doesn’t like it, I’m just paraphrasing what he said and taking it at face value. Unless he’s completely joking, he did expect to be done with Fighter’s Pass 1, but he’s also happy to work on more if Nintendo decides to do so.

To me, it feels like the finish line is sliding farther away. You may wonder, ‘how much longer can he be involved with Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?’ But I’m also excited. Adding more characters into the game means that more game worlds will be added to the series. And ultimately, that means there will be an even greater opportunity to delight the fans.

It’s why I said both seemingly contradictory feelings (i.e., wanting to finish Ultimate, wanting to add more worlds to please fans) are simultaneously true for him. As it is with me. Can’t wait for it to be done so I have a completed mural and wallpaper, but I also want this hype train to never die. But I think it’s important to recognize both of those feelings he has on the matter to get a more accurate idea as to how he’s thinking.

 

[volbound1700]

I think there's been quite a few hasty judgments in the last 12-15 hours since Min Min came out. The revelation of Min Min getting a separate Fighter Spirit, in my humble opinion, didn't really tell us something we didn't already know. Any potential Spirit Upgrade prospect will receive new artwork as their Fighter Spirit, and it's entirely possible that they don't do anything to change the Spirit that is already present.

From most folks I've talked to, Rex seems like an upgrade candidate in good shape. A protagonist of his own game, was considered (by Sakurai) for base game, and his absence was compensated for with the Mii Costume. The only thing with Rex is that, in my opinion, the longer we go without him, the less likely it seems he's in. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is, as of today, about 2.5 years old. While ARMS is 3 years old and got Min Min, I'd say Xenoblade is just a bit different considering the genre and ways that the characters within each respective series exist.

That said, I think Rex is looking good right now.

Geno...I think we need to pump the breaks. Not only does he have history as a Mii Costume (which we've yet to see a DLC upgrade from), but he could absolutely be a Premium costume, or just come back as normal. We have to remember, while Geno is a major pillar of fan demand right now he's still:
- a party member from a generations old Mario game
- owned by a different company
- Nintendo is choosing the characters, not Sakurai (or at least he isn't as much the "sole" person choosing)

Now, these things don't mean he's toast. It's just that Square Enix hasn't used him, and Nintendo would likely only choose him on the basis of fan demand. Again, it doesn't mean he WON'T be added, but he's far from a lock.

Anytime that someone has made an assumption for Smash, they have been proven wrong. Sakurai clearly doesn't have any rules and looks at things differently. I agree that Rex looks good right now (unfortunately as I am not a fan of Xenoblade. I have the original for Wii and didn't enjoy it that much). However, Sakurai has acknowledge the demand for Geno in the past so I don't think that your comments are that accurate regarding the character.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Makes me wonder though. Which other characters could be ripped from their games and work in Smash Bros? Because there is a possibility that they could be more likely to be picked as DLC.

Maybe...

-Sora's KH3 model
-Crash's N. Sane Trilogy model
-Captain Toad's Odyssey model

While Crash Bandicoot already has an existing 3D model from "N.Sane Trilogy", They made an enhanced model for the upcoming game that I believe is the best Crash has ever looked and sacrifices realism for an even more Cartoony and adorable look, Kind of reminds of me of what they did to Banjo-Kazooie for Smash, This to me is the "Definitive" Crash Bandicoot and is the one I would love for them to use for Super Smash Bros.

"Crash Bandicoot: N.Sane Trilogy"

"Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time"

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Blessing (or Cursing, your choice) the thread right quick.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I feel like Jon's Tweet somewhat frustratingly encapsulates how much this discussion has been ruined by bad faith actors who turned legitimate points of speculation into something that can be more easily dismissed as gate keeping. Every single one of those examples has a key component that originally would have made them relevant. Lucas as DLC was not planned until after Smash for Wii U had released, hence the trophy appearing before he got included. Min Min got included as a fighter when the time came to renegotiate content after the first initial wave of content was planned alongside base game Ultimate. Chrom and Isabelle getting upgraded from one game to the next weren't ever really in question to begin with? Pointing to a Mii Costume alongside a fighter just tells us the usual fact that timing and circumstances determine everything and always did. People saying "King K. Rool got a costume in base game alongside being playable, why can't Rex?" for the first Fighter's Pass was a key example of missing what Rex as a Bonus Mii Costume in the original Fighter's Pass indicated for their plans and that they brought back costumes cause there wasn't a point not to in a base game that was including the character in the first place.

Like all of the conversations regarding "rules" for upgrades should be considered from a practical standpoint and are used to make you question why a game would receive content at one point in time if it had other known plans in the pipeline. They are always subject to reassessment when it comes time to choose more content relative to the initial moment when they were placed in a non playable role, and then consider what positives and negatives do they bring on a case by case basis when those additional opportunities for content arise. It's not generally been the content itself that's been a problem for upgrades, but instead what the content itself signifies beyond its inherent conclusion that was the issue.

 

[Deleted member]

Geno...I think we need to pump the breaks. Not only does he have history as a Mii Costume (which we've yet to see a DLC upgrade from), but he could absolutely be a Premium costume, or just come back as normal. We have to remember, while Geno is a major pillar of fan demand right now he's still:
- a party member from a generations old Mario game
- owned by a different company
- Nintendo is choosing the characters, not Sakurai (or at least he isn't as much the "sole" person choosing)

Now, these things don't mean he's toast. It's just that Square Enix hasn't used him, and Nintendo would likely only choose him on the basis of fan demand. Again, it doesn't mean he WON'T be added, but he's far from a lock.

I think that's absolutely fair and definitely true despite how badly I want him. The most the spirit upgrade thing has done for him is prove that hes not impossible but looking at Geno's chances beyond the whole Spirit thing he's still rather unlikely with the situation hes in.

As you said hes only starred in a Generations old Mario game, Hes owned by a different company, Nintendo is choosing and we don't know what their thoughts are on him and if they'd view him as making financial and business sense, etc. etc.

And not to mention he's also only appeared as a cameo (not including Smash) in Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga and was later removed which shows how little importance he was to that game, Square definitely wouldn't want him in compared to other characters and more.


As I tell myself he's not impossible just improbable. That said I wouldn't call him impossible as a few of those things I and you mentioned could be viewed in a different perspective:

1) Mario and Luigi Cameo: fairly recently AlphaDream went into bankruptcy as I'm sure we all know so depending on how long they've been having issues like that they may have wanted to get the Geno cameo back but couldn't due to licensing costing money and they might've viewed it as a "the more saved the better" situation which may have led them to not want to license an agreement with Square.

2) Nintendo is Choosing and they wouldn't choose Geno: While I believe it's highly unlikely they'd go for Geno over 2B, Bravely or even Sora I still think there's a slight chance they may as you said choose him on the basis of Fan Demand much like they did with Banjo. That is a reason why they'd may want to choose Geno and likely the main reason but if they have interest in representing the Mario RPG side of the Mario franchise they could view Geno as a good choice as he starred in the game that had a direct hand in starting that entire side of the franchise as without it we'd likely not have it's devs move onto the Mario and Luigi series nor Paper Mario which started off as SMRPG2. Speaking of which I say this and I think it's a fair argument but they could just as easily choose Paper Mario if they wish since he'd be less of a hassle to license as they own the character.

and so on so forth. All this said I can only really see him getting his Smash 4 Mii Costume ported or nothing. I'm expecting the worst and if I get my preferred outcome of Geno being playable? Awesome. I view him as incredibly unlikely, not impossible but there's a lot of hurdles he'd have to jump to get in and I'm just not sure how possible it is for him to jump all of them. I just see 2B getting in with the Smash 4 Mii Costume being ported.