Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

Min Min looks great to me. Plus, I don't think reusing models is bad if the model they're using already looks fantastic, which all of ARMS models do (game is actually pretty gorgeous).

It's not lazy or "boring" IMO, it's just being smart and resourceful. Why spend hours upon hours making new resources if what you already got looks great?

Exactly. What matters is Min Min is fun and was worth the wait.

 

[Guynamednelson]

(GF should use their asset reuse to give the existing Pokemon more animations but of course they're too poorly managed to actually use that advantage).

They actually did do that...in Sun and Moon, where the walking/running animations made their debut.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I never even heard about this until Min Min's Smash model was brought up. Where is the proof?

Although since Smash has had plenty of recycled models even in Melee, even Nintendo would be willing to lend their own.

It's on their website

https://www.bandainamcostudios.com/en/works/products/arms.html

They worked on half of the visual assets apparently, so it adds up

 

[Guynamednelson]

It's on their website

https://www.bandainamcostudios.com/en/works/products/arms.html

They worked on half of the visual assets apparently, so it adds up

Huh. Wonder why it's not mentioned at all on Wikipedia.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

I never even heard about this until Min Min's Smash model was brought up. Where is the proof?

Although since Smash has had plenty of recycled models even in Melee, even Nintendo would be willing to lend their own.

Right on Bandai Namco's official website:

https://www.bandainamcostudios.com/en/works/products/arms.html

edit: too slow, yeppers. too slow.

 

[kevinthedot]

They actually did do that...in Sun and Moon, where the walking/running animations made their debut.

Aye, though they didn't use them there really and only finally gave us full access to them in the Isle of Armor DLC.
I was more thinking things like "Give each pokemon a second physical/special attack animation". Same amount of work as when they did walk/run for each, but it'd help out a ton of older pokemon and give the attacks more variety. If not that, at least giving them more idles or just SOMETHING besides the "cry" animation they got in Sword and Shield would have been doable had GF actually given their team the resources and time they needed.
I actually do like Sword and Shield a lot. All the issues I have with it I blame squarely on the higher ups at GF rather than their actual development team. They clearly have the skill to make good stuff, but it seems their talents are just squandered by bad management.

 

[TriggerX]

What’s interesting is that Geno and Lloyd keep coming up in speculation circles because they are missing mii costumes.
In reality, we’ve yet to see any character that was a mii costume come back as a playable character for dlc. Base game , sure we have the likes of KRool and chrom, probably a few others.

I don’t think it’s impossible ofcourse, but there’s always a chance neither character gets any kind of upgrade. Surprised they would wait for the second pass to break that pattern even once.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Aye, though they didn't use them there really and only finally gave us full access to them in the Isle of Armor DLC.
I was more thinking things like "Give each pokemon a second physical/special attack animation". Same amount of work as when they did walk/run for each, but it'd help out a ton of older pokemon and give the attacks more variety. If not that, at least giving them more idles or just SOMETHING besides the "cry" animation they got in Sword and Shield would have been doable had GF actually given their team the resources and time they needed.
I actually do like Sword and Shield a lot. All the issues I have with it I blame squarely on the higher ups at GF rather than their actual development team. They clearly have the skill to make good stuff, but it seems their talents are just squandered by bad management.

Yeah, I think Pokemon would benifit a lot from dropping the anualisation of main series titles and doing as Mario does by using spin-offs to fill the gap.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What’s interesting is that Geno and Lloyd keep coming up in speculation circles because they are missing mii costumes.
In reality, we’ve yet to see any character that was a mii costume come back as a playable character for dlc. Base game , sure we have the likes of KRool and chrom, probably a few others.

I don’t think it’s impossible ofcourse, but there’s always a chance neither character gets any kind of upgrade. Surprised they would wait for the second pass to break that pattern even once.

There were two other Mii Costumes from 4 that were playable in base Ultimate: Isabelle (who was also an AT in 4) and Inkling (who probably couldn’t be playable in 4 due to the 3DS’s graphical limitations).

personally I think if Heihachi’s costume returned, Geno and Lloyd’s probably will too. Could mean we’ll get different Square Enix/Bandai Namco reps, or not. But I’m not counting on Geno or Lloyd to happen at this rate

 

[ZenythSmash]

The voice actor of Pyra and Mythra posted this

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And here's one of the guys from GameExplain congratulating her.

Congrats on the new gig! Excited to hear what it is

— Jon Cartwright (@JonComms) June 29, 2020

Don't know if it's Smash or not, but I thought to bring it up.

That's very interesting, but i also hope nobody stalks or poke a voice actor over a possiblity for Smash.
Not going to point fingers but it got, and was, pretty annoying, especially people citing about the Adam Howden tweet as an excuse, which kept backfiring per reveal.

I'd drop $60 on a Ultimate DX if it has just one little thing.

Rollback netcode.

you and i both

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I’m curious, what are your guys opinions on geno? Personally, I think he’s a lock at this point.

According to some people in the Geno fandom, wanting sora is a deal with the devil and I want sora so I guess I made a deal with the devil

 

[Corbin]

According to some people in the Geno fandom, wanting sora is a deal with the devil and I wasnt sora so I guess I made a deal with the devil

Where/when did someone say that?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Where/when did someone say that?

I was exaggerating. I said itnin that way because of how they react when Sora is even brought up, they get hella defensiv

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That's very interesting, but i also hope nobody stalks or poke a voice actor over a possiblity for Smash.
Not going to point fingers but it got, and was, pretty annoying, especially people citing about the Adam Howden tweet as an excuse, which kept backfiring per reveal.


you and i both

About the Skye Bennett thing:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Tl;dr it isn’t Smash.

on a side note, yes, rollback netcode please

 

[Peeton]

Makes me wonder though. Which other characters could be ripped from their games and work in Smash Bros? Because there is a possibility that they could be more likely to be picked as DLC.

They could use Magnus’s Smash 4 assist as a base!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

They could use Magnus’s Smash 4 assist as a base!

I wonder if Chrom's model is just the exact same one that is in Robin's Final Smash

 

[ZenythSmash]

We can't think of a name cause we don't know **** about BotW2. And it's about time the game gets a second trailer or so.

what's wrong with "Champion" Zelda? Feels like the most direct and related term they could go with for BotW Zelda (Fighter).

I do gotta ask

do you guys think there will be a character in FP2 that good amount of people dislike, like with Byleth. Min-Min, while not the most hype character, certainly isn't hated much, and is pretty cool for people. however there is a trend of the Ending of the pass not being as good as the beginning

there was a topic on Gamefaqs that talked about this, so I'm wondering how you guys feel about this too. How much Relatively worse can the pass get for people going from Min-Min

You mean another deemed anti-climatic sendoff that hype fanatics won't like? Most likely IMO, but who knows really?

I don't believe they'd end Vol 2 with another Pokemon, but I can already tell you there will probably be a great amount of people that find a Gen 8 Pokemon underwhelming and disappointing. Would they be even more divisive than Byleth is a question that can only be answered when they reveal what Pokemon gets chosen.

JUST MY 2 CENTS: If its gonna be another bipedal Fire starter pokemon, like Cinderace, there's definitely going to be some upset. Not close to Byleth levels but surpassing Wolf and possibly Corrin levels of dissent.
From the people that wanted one of the most popular Galar Pokemons in, to people that STILL believe typing matters in who gets chosen in Smash (it doesn't matter at all LOL), to people obsessed over who's series, archetype, or fan quota overrepresented (or, in Smash talk, ""overreped""), to Dexit fanboys taking advantage of this situation, and etc.
I think Toxtricity or Inteleon would still probably get away from this easily for the 2nd and 3rd point from the last sentence above, Tox not being another Pikachu-related and being dual-typed, and Inteleon being way too underrated among Smash fanboys. Both would still be kinda accused of being "another obvious shill" Pokemon for what reason.

Lots of potiential, the hate can still be cushioned pretty easily due to how big the Pokemon fanbase is like with Incineroar, but i feel its gonna be there. I still remember when people got assblasted over Star Fox getting another Fox-like character in the game, despite Wolf being a popular Star Fox choice that could still make it in the last minute. I also still remember when people complained about the overabundance of Fire types in Pokken, despite the game having a lot of popular/fan favorite choices in and the Fire-type having a lot of popular Pokemon choices...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It's hard to tell in the realm of Rex Bad Elma Good.

I’d prefer Elma but there’s a far cry from preferring Elma over Rex to being anti-Rex.

 

[ZenythSmash]

What did they do to make it 'broken'? As far as I can tell the only evidence of it being broken is getting hit by down throw and doing literally nothing, something that only worked for the first two months of the game's release

I honestly thought it was broken at first. Manage to land a successful skewer despite being so close to the opponent.
probably been just bad placement

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

The two literally have nothing to do with one another.

O...m...g

YOU FORGOT GENO AND HERO ARE BOTH MADE BY SQUARE ENIX!?!?

Anyway...

I’m curious, what are your guys opinions on geno? Personally, I think he’s a lock at this point.

Not lock he could still get the costume despite not being with hero since both are made by square

But yea the min min spirit not being removed (and can be equipped to min min) and the fighter spirit looking different it can never be used as a argument against Him ever again

And before you say the only one official picture of him

Just use the smash ultimate fighter pose spirit like

Or his sprite in gameplay like

 

[Rie Sonomura]

O...m...g

YOU FORGOT GENO AND HERO ARE BOTH MADE BY SQUARE ENIX!?!?

Anyway...


Not lock he could still get the costume despite not being with hero since both are made by square

But yea the min min spirit not being removed and the filter spirit looking different it can never be used as a argument against Him ever again

And before you say the only one official picture of him

Just use the smashnultimate fighter pose like

Or his sprite in gameplay like

Thing is, Hero’s costumes were completely Dragon Quest themed. Even a Chocobo would be out of place for a DQ focused presentation

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Thing is, Hero’s costumes were completely Dragon Quest themed. Even a Chocobo would be out of place for a DQ focused presentation

True but it was logical to put the costume there based on the same company

 

[SharkLord]

I've seen a lot of speculation that includes phrases like "I don't want [character] cause I didn't play [game]" or "cause I played [game] and couldn't get into it" a lot.
Makes me wonder, do you guys have any wants where you want the character for them as a character or their fan demand but don't care about nor have ever played their game(s)?

Like, I got one myself in my odd desire for Tracer. Never played Overwatch and don't intend to ever, but I really like the animations and think Tracer could be a weird and fun character regardless.
I also used to have the opposite of this with . I adore the games and their character, but I just had no interest in them as a fighter since I expected it to be pretty simple. Got over it a bit when they came out and saw their gorgeous rendition, but they still aren't anything that excites me or that I want to play particularly.

Klonoa and Reimu, mostly because their games aren't on the Switch. Also, Klonoa sold horribly because Bandai-Namco somehow forgot to advertise their own product, so that's another major roadblock in accessibility. C'mon, please let Klonoa Encore be real...

O...m...g

YOU FORGOT GENO AND HERO ARE BOTH MADE BY SQUARE ENIX!?!?

Anyway...


Not lock he could still get the costume despite not being with hero since both are made by square

But yea the min min spirit not being removed (and can be equipped to min min) and the fighter spirit looking different it can never be used as a argument against Him ever again

And before you say the only one official picture of him

Just use the smash ultimate fighter pose spirit like

Or his sprite in gameplay like

People used Heihachi's costume not being with Terry as proof he had a chance, since Terry's reveal had nothing but fighting game Miis. Lo and behold, he's with Min Min, who's costumes didn't have a specific theme to begin with.
There's also the fact that Cuphead didn't come with fellow Microsoft IP Banjo. Being owned by the same company doesn't mean the Miis from that company will only release with the character. I wouldn't be too surprised if he got a Mii, PreMiium or not, and an updated Spirit battle.

 

[StormC]

View attachment 276772
Min Min is cool, but I'd trade her for Decidueye in half a heartbeat.

I wanted Decidueye too but if it was between these two realities I’m happy we got this one. I still like Incineroar and I like Min Min a thousand times more than Spring-Man.

 

[Arcanir]

True but it was logical to put the costume there based on the same company

At the same time though, they could've put Akira and Jacky with the other SEGA costumes that came with Joker, or put Heihachi with the Fighter genre costumes that came with Terry, but in both cases they got pushed off to a future set. Geno's not being with the SE costumes that came with Hero can just as easily mean that they didn't want to release him with that set, which has a reason for not having him due to the aforementioned DQ theme.

 

[Spatman]

and Inkling (who probably couldn’t be playable in 4 due to the 3DS’s graphical limitations).

I find it more likely that he/she weren't dlc in smash 4 because Nintendo wanted to keep them to hype the next smash installment

and in the base game they couldn't be playable because Splatoon neither was out when Smash 4 was almost finishing its development cycle

 

[PK-remling Fire]

I've seen a lot of speculation that includes phrases like "I don't want [character] cause I didn't play [game]" or "cause I played [game] and couldn't get into it" a lot.
Makes me wonder, do you guys have any wants where you want the character for them as a character or their fan demand but don't care about nor have ever played their game(s)?

I don't know if this counts, but I've wanted Amaterasu from Okami in smash before I actually played her game. Though playing it only makes me want her in more.

 

[volbound1700]

This has already been discussed but I don't visit Smashboards much anymore (partly because the rumors and being busy). However, there are rumors about a Fighter Pass 3. I wanted to give my input.

From the persona provided by Sakurai in the Min Min Direct, I think he wants to keep going and is enjoying adding to Smash Ultimate. However, COVID-19 is going to have a major impact and slow down his work and the work of the team. I think it won't be a matter of Sakurai's desire for a FP3 but rather can he do it in the Switch's life span and whether COVID-19 will continue to slowdown his work.

Nintendo is likely reviewing the next console leap. Granted, I think Switch will have a long life because it is still popular and it combines Nintendo's handheld and console market together (that was the best aspect of the system).

What is everyone's thoughts? I would also love to see non-character DLC similar to the spirit rematch options. A Smash Run or Break the Targets mode would be great as paid DLC.

 

[SKX31]

Klonoa and Reimu, mostly because their games aren't on the Switch. Also, Klonoa sold horribly because Bandai-Namco somehow forgot to advertise their own product, so that's another major roadblock in accessibility. C'mon, please let Klonoa Encore be real...

Decided to check out how Crucible, the F2P action shooter from Amazon Game Studios was doing and uh.....

The game really suffered from a lack of promotion or buzz prior to launch, and didn't do much in terms of twitch integration. Was also a bit uninspired as a game. pic.twitter.com/pia4Ea5LDg

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) June 26, 2020

Yeah, sometimes that happens sadly.

I wonder if Chrom's model is just the exact same one that is in Robin's Final Smash

Yes it is the same. It's easiest to see when comparing Chrom's playable model and the one in Robin's victory screen.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Yes it is the same. It's easiest to see when comparing Chrom's playable model and the one in Robin's victory screen.

Which leads to a follow-up, how many fully modelled characters are in Smash?

The Phantom that Zelda summons for her down special could possibly be reworked as Toon Zelda, the other Mega Man are animated in Classic's Final Smash and Riki, Dunban and SPOILER CHARACTER are part of Shulk's final smash.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I wanted Decidueye too but if it was between these two realities I’m happy we got this one. I still like Incineroar and I like Min Min a thousand times more than Spring-Man.

I'm still not sure which reality I'd prefer. Spring Man is fine but Decidueye still isn't my preferred gen 7 rep.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Which leads to a follow-up, how many fully modelled characters are in Smash?

The Phantom that Zelda summons for her down special could possibly be reworked as Toon Zelda, the other Mega Man are animated in Classic's Final Smash and Riki, Dunban and SPOILER CHARACTER are part of Shulk's final smash.

How about Paula and Poo in Ness’s Final Smash, and Kumatora and Boney in Lucas’s?

 

[Knight Dude]

Blessing (or Cursing, your choice) the thread right quick.

Retweet to scare a gatekeeper pic.twitter.com/dCBhoQYFvS

— Jon Cartwright (@JonComms) June 30, 2020

Anyway, Min-Min's tricky but fun to fight against. I played online for the first time in a LONG while, got bodied like it was nobody's business, lost most of my GSP. But I crawled my way back up to 5 million GSP with Mega Man.

I could have been almost at 6 million GSP, but two of the matches I won, someone pulled the coward tech of leaving right before the match ended.

 

[zriL]

So there is an interesting thing to note about the update.

Min Min got a different specific fighter spirit and her old spirit remained in the game unchanged.
However, they did talk about Spirit upgrades happening in the future. At first, I thought Sakurai was talking about spirit->costume upgrades as well as spirit->fighter upgrades. But he was definitely only talking about spirit->costume upgrade, with the cuphead example, because fighters get their own separate spirit.

This means at least one spirit will be upgraded into a deluxe costume during this pass, probably several. The obvious candidate is Geno, he is also the only one missing costume from Smash 4 that is also a spirit. At this point, I think Geno has 95% chance of being a deluxe mii costume, his proportions and moveset fit so well.

Besides Geno, what spirit do you think would work well as a deluxe mii costume ?
For example, I think Bomberman would work well visually, but the moveset doesn't really fit with any mii fighter.
Rayman could also work visually, if they can remove the limbs. But even as a brawler, the moveset would be weird for him.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So there is an interesting thing to note about the update.

Min Min got a different specific fighter spirit and her old spirit remained in the game unchanged.
However, they did talk about Spirit upgrades happening in the future. At first, I thought Sakurai was talking about spirit->costume upgrades as well as spirit->fighter upgrades. But he was definitely only talking about spirit->costume upgrade, with the cuphead example, because fighters get their own separate spirit.

This means at least one spirit will be upgraded into a deluxe costume during this pass, probably several. The obvious candidate is Geno, he is also the only one missing costume from Smash 4 that is also a spirit. At this point, I think Geno has 95% chance of being a deluxe mii costume, his proportions and moveset fit so well.

Besides Geno, what spirit do you think would work well as a deluxe mii costume ?
For example, I think Bomberman would work well visually, but the moveset doesn't really fit with any mii fighter.
Rayman could also work visually, if they can remove the limbs. But even as a brawler, the moveset would be weird for him.

Aside from Geno, maybe... hate to admit it, but Shantae. I’ll happily take a brawler with some Shantae jams if she can’t be playable

 

[Faso115]

If the whole pass goes by and Crash doesn't get in, at least i have this picture as a consolation price

 

[DevaAshera]

I’m curious, what are your guys opinions on geno? Personally, I think he’s a lock at this point.

I think he's possible but far from a lock. He's a Square-Enix character that already had a Mii Fighter costume that they could just re-use instead and he's from a 20+ year old game that was never even released in Europe until the Wii. If they were going to bother with another Square-Enix character, I think they'd be more likely to go with a more well known character like 2B from NieR Automata or one for a recent success like Octopath Traveler or Bravely Default, both of which would add another new series to the game while Geno wouldn't (and Sora isn't a Square-Enix character, hence my not listing him).
I love Super Mario RPG (its my favorite Mario game & SNES game), but I don't think Geno's popularity in the fanbase translates to popularity with the average consumer/player.

I put Geno's chances of becoming a full-fledged Fighter is about 50/50.

Aside from Geno, maybe... hate to admit it, but Shantae. I’ll happily take a brawler with some Shantae jams if she can’t be playable

I'd happily take that too and I think its the most likely scenario.

 

[Knight Dude]

Can't wait to play as Min Min and get the Min Min Spirit with my maxed-out Min Min Spirit.
This has solidified the Spirit rule's status as DEAD. I can easily picture the Fighter Spirits used for characters like Bandana Dee and Shantae, who got new official artworks with new releases. Not sure what Rex would do; Let's dig through some old Nintendo Twitter posts and see if there's any alternate artwork we could use.
Also, Attack while Getting Up. Not Getup Attack, Attack while Getting Up. I find this way funnier than I should.

Boy I'm sure glad there's a ton of cool characters who got tons of PNGs they could double up on if they pull the miracle.

 

[CosmicQuark]

This has already been discussed but I don't visit Smashboards much anymore (partly because the rumors and being busy). However, there are rumors about a Fighter Pass 3. I wanted to give my input.

From the persona provided by Sakurai in the Min Min Direct, I think he wants to keep going and is enjoying adding to Smash Ultimate. However, COVID-19 is going to have a major impact and slow down his work and the work of the team. I think it won't be a matter of Sakurai's desire for a FP3 but rather can he do it in the Switch's life span and whether COVID-19 will continue to slowdown his work.

Nintendo is likely reviewing the next console leap. Granted, I think Switch will have a long life because it is still popular and it combines Nintendo's handheld and console market together (that was the best aspect of the system).

What is everyone's thoughts? I would also love to see non-character DLC similar to the spirit rematch options. A Smash Run or Break the Targets mode would be great as paid DLC.

I think Sakurai is actually not too keen on having more DLC. I feel like he thought the Base and FP1 was a complete package, designing the UI to accompany that, and given how he talked about there being more characters in the B&K presentation (something along the lines of “the finish line keeps going further and further away”). I picture it as Sakurai would prefer ending Ultimate as soon as possible so that he can move on to something else, but if Nintendo thinks it’s profitable to make more he likes being able to add more for the fans and to continue expanding on his record. I think both can simultaneously be true and it matches what he said. As such, I don’t expect a FP3 unless FP2 sells exceptionally well.

As for non-character DLC and updates—While I don’t expect it, I would love returning stages like Pac-Maze. There’s another one, but can’t recall it at the moment. I’d also like Break the Targets and Board the Platforms, as I loved how each character had unique platforming challenges and trying to do them all—the bonus stage in Classic Mode is so boring because every character has the same one. But I see that as necessary as making one for every character seems crazy. Maybe make 20-30, and then pick characters that fit those stages, since there’s going to be some crossover anyways. But ideally each character would have a unique one, with unique assets/color schemes.

Outside of that, not much when it comes to modes. I’d like bosses and assist trophies for DLC characters (e.g., Jack Frost, Gruntilda/Mumbo, etc). Something to make them feel more like base game characters, as well as adding to WOL.

I’d like to also be able to pick what assist characters pop up. So, for instance, if I wanted Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow and Shovel Knight in a game I’d enable them in the rules, that way I could choose to play with them rather than waiting on random chance. Closest thing is training mode, and that’s not ideal. Those are the main changes and additions I’d like to see.

 

[Deleted member]

So there is an interesting thing to note about the update.

Min Min got a different specific fighter spirit and her old spirit remained in the game unchanged.
However, they did talk about Spirit upgrades happening in the future. At first, I thought Sakurai was talking about spirit->costume upgrades as well as spirit->fighter upgrades. But he was definitely only talking about spirit->costume upgrade, with the cuphead example, because fighters get their own separate spirit.

This means at least one spirit will be upgraded into a deluxe costume during this pass, probably several. The obvious candidate is Geno, he is also the only one missing costume from Smash 4 that is also a spirit. At this point, I think Geno has 95% chance of being a deluxe mii costume, his proportions and moveset fit so well.

Besides Geno, what spirit do you think would work well as a deluxe mii costume ?
For example, I think Bomberman would work well visually, but the moveset doesn't really fit with any mii fighter.
Rayman could also work visually, if they can remove the limbs. But even as a brawler, the moveset would be weird for him.

Yeah Geno is definitely getting a Deluxe Mii Costume at best... ):

Maybe a Deluxe Mii Costume for Masked Man could work. Possibly Kunio as well.