Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[StormC]

Hot take...

The next Smash is going to be a 3D Fighter. I see there being no way they can ever top Ultimate's roster and they can't continue adding forever given licensing issues.

The only way they could justify a new entry with less fighters is by giving the gameplay a big overhaul and doing something new with it. Hence why I believe a 3D Fighter would be the way to go.

If they haven't changed Mario Kart's core gameplay in the last two decades, I feel like they won't with Smash.

 

[Wunderwaft]

TBF, we got a lot of big fan requests with more strongly tied to or the stars of a franchise (Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo), which Geno sadly doesn't meet.

Geno's problem comes down to three things:
1) He's a minor character in the game he's known from
2) He hasn't made an important appearance since the game he debuted in
3) He's owned by a third party company that isn't easy to work with

All these three things combined damn him to be forgotten and abandoned in a Square Enix prison cell. This is a character that appeals to no one but the Smash fanbase. I have never seen Geno mentioned anywhere outside of Smash context, that's how terribly obscure he is.

Hot take...

The next Smash is going to be a 3D Fighter. I see there being no way they can ever top Ultimate's roster and they can't continue adding forever given licensing issues.

The only way they could justify a new entry with less fighters is by giving the gameplay a big overhaul and doing something new with it. Hence why I believe a 3D Fighter would be the way to go.

Fighting games almost never change the formula, and for good reason. If it's not broke then don't fix it. It's why Street Fighter and every other fighting game at their core remained the same throughout the years.

 

[Ura]

If they haven't changed Mario Kart's core gameplay in the last two decades, I feel like they won't with Smash.

Fighting games almost never change the formula, and for good reason. If it's not broke then don't fix it. It's why Street Fighter and every other fighting game at their core remained the same throughout the years.

I just feel like with the whole "Everyone is Here" gimmick and the insane roster for this game, there's not much Sakurai or Nintendo can do to top the next game. Which is completely different from Mario Kart's case.

I can't see how they release another game in the vein of the older Smash's with a dramatically reduced roster. A gameplay overhaul is borderline required for the next Smash.

 

[StormC]

I just feel like with the whole "Everyone is Here" gimmick and the insane roster for this game, there's not much Sakurai or Nintendo can do to top the next game. Which is a completely different from Mario Kart's case.

I can't see how they release another game in the vein of the older Smash's with a dramatically reduced roster. A gameplay overhaul is borderline required for the next Smash.

What if it isn't dramatically reduced? Just because they can't bring everyone back doesn't mean the cuts will be massive. Nintendo and Sakurai are aware the characters sell the game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Hot take...

The next Smash is going to be a 3D Fighter. I see there being no way they can ever top Ultimate's roster and they can't continue adding forever given licensing issues.

The only way they could justify a new entry with less fighters is by giving the gameplay a big overhaul and doing something new with it. Hence why I believe a 3D Fighter would be the way to go.

Heihachi confirmed.

For Smash 6.

 

[Ura]

What if it isn't dramatically reduced? Just because they can't bring everyone back doesn't mean the cuts will be massive. Nintendo and Sakurai are aware the characters sell the game.

The reason the roster is so massive is because they went out of there way to bring everyone back. For a new game, they would be lucky to have something similar to Smash 4. Possibly even less.

And in the mind of the consumer, it's an easy pass when they can get a game with more characters and what have you. That's how I see it anyways.

Heihachi confirmed.

For Smash 6.

Yo I said a 3D Fighter but I ain't talking a Tekken-like game lmao.

 

[Wunderwaft]

What if it isn't dramatically reduced? Just because they can't bring everyone back doesn't mean the cuts will be massive. Nintendo and Sakurai are aware the characters sell the game.

I feel like this is what will happen in the next game.
We might get some cuts and some fanbases will be sad. But to compensate for that we'll get a good number of newcomers. We only got 6 non-echo newcomers for the base roster of this game, that's relatively low compared to previous Smash installments. Not everyone will be back for the next game, but we'll see some new faces that will make up for it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’m talking about you not believing in something, and I’m telling you that just because something isn’t 100% accurate doesn’t mean it’s 100% inaccurate.

That's true, but I can predict 100 characters and get 1 of them right and be able to make the claim that I wasn't "100% innacurate".

If your information isn't 100% accurate, than it's not really any more useful than somebody's random guesses.

I would be fine with him if he got in, but I may skip the character if he is mostly based on the 2016 version and lacks stuff from the classic games or Eternal.

I'm a little confused as to why you think the 2016 version has less stuff than the Classic version, who doesn't really do anything besides run and shoot straight, and occasionally chainsaw.

 

[StormC]

they would be lucky to have something similar to Smash 4. Possibly even less.

How would you know this? We are talking about a game that is minimum five years away.

 

[GoodGrief741]

to answer my 12th question, it's doomslayer,Doom pretty much popularize the fps genre and a more easier violent M-rated Franchise to implement in smash than Mortal Kombat,
for comparison the way I see it in terms of violence: Mortal Kombat is more like Invader Zim(More realistic violence and Darker tone) while doom is more like The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy (more over the top/more cartoonish graphic violence) (not the best comparison but that's the closest thing I think of).

and now for my 13th Question

Question 13(similar to My 1st Question)
Witch of the 3 ps2 Sony mascots would you prefer to see in smash bros ultimate dlc(If Sony change it's Mind)
1:Jak and Daxter
2:Ratchet & Clank
3:Sly Cooper

None of them. If Sony got a rep and it was one of those it would suck, none of them really feel like Sony's mascot.

The reason the roster is so massive is because they went out of there way to bring everyone back. For a new game, they would be lucky to have something similar to Smash 4. Possibly even less.

...Why? They can clearly make a game with 80 characters. If they cut some of the fat of the roster and replace them with new characters you can totally have a Smash game with the usual amount of newcomers. They can just cut stages or whatever if they need resources.

Ultimate's resources were imo terribly allocated so there's absolutely a way to get more characters into the game. If need be just give it a longer development.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Ultimate's resources were imo terribly allocated so there's absolutely a way to get more characters into the game. If need be just give it a longer development.

How come?

Also would a Doomguy character sort of lock out a run-and-gun character that also shoots on a 2D platforming plane?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Wright, Jill or Dante would be my favourite Capcom picks.

ARTHUUUR!! We're only 3 characters away from total SNES Classic representation!

Geno's problem comes down to three things:
1) He's a minor character in the game he's known from

No, he's a major character in the game he's known for. The game's ending pretty much revolves around him.

He's a minor character in the franchise he's known for, having only ever shown up in the one game.

 

[GoodGrief741]

How come?

Despite Echoes being rebranded to much acclaim and being an easy way to fill up a roster that needed more newcomers than ever, they only made 5, so even less than the amount of uniques. The absence of most modes, only for some of them to come back through DLC - with some obvious ones like Boss Battles still MIA. All-Star being butchered and buggy as hell. Piranha Plant not being able to make base roster. It definitely feels like a game rushed to release.

My biggest qualm is with having Battlefield and Final Destination forms for every stage. If they're as resource intensive as Sakurai claims they are, then I think they absolutely should be cut.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Sorry, just woke up and I have a splitting headache. Here's the actual question: how likely do you all think a Capcom character has become?

50/50 type of likely

 

[Ura]

How would you know this? We are talking about a game that is minimum five years away.

Educated guess I suppose. Sakurai always talks about how it's hard to bring back old characters and having a roster this large. He was even quoted saying that the usual roster for fighting games is around 20-30. Not that a new Smash would be that low but still. I can't imagine a roster even close to the size of Ultimate.

...Why? They can clearly make a game with 80 characters. If they cut some of the fat of the roster and replace them with new characters you can totally have a Smash game with the usual amount of newcomers. They can just cut stages or whatever if they need resources.

Ultimate's resources were imo terribly allocated so there's absolutely a way to get more characters into the game. If need be just give it a longer development.

Don't believe it's that simple with licensing stuff and what have you. And giving it a longer development period isn't a one-fix solution.

 

[DarthEnderX]

My biggest qualm is with having Battlefield and Final Destination forms for every stage. If they're as resource intensive as Sakurai claims they are

They're not.

 

[Wunderwaft]

They're not.

Huh?
I didn't say that.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Huh?
I didn't say that.

Sorry, messed up the quote. Fixed.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Just spitballing ideas here, but I’ve always thought an interesting mechanic for a Smash game could take on is being able to pick an assist/support character like how you do in Marvel vs capcom 1 or Pokken.

Probably would be hard to balance, but it could lead to fun customization and allow some secondary characters to shine.

 

[Curious Villager]

Despite Echoes being rebranded to much acclaim and being an easy way to fill up a roster that needed more newcomers than ever, they only made 5, so even less than the amount of uniques. The absence of most modes, only for some of them to come back through DLC - with some obvious ones like Boss Battles still MIA. All-Star being butchered and buggy as hell. Piranha Plant not being able to make base roster. It definitely feels like a game rushed to release.

My biggest qualm is with having Battlefield and Final Destination forms for every stage. If they're as resource intensive as Sakurai claims they are, then I think they absolutely should be cut.

I feel like they should probably remove the omega and battlefield form stages and expand further upon the stage hazard switch. Maybe give us the option to control which hazards should be off and which ones should be on. or in cases such as travelling stages like Delfino Plaza and Skyloft, allow us to choose which locations to have the battles take place.

For stuff like Break the Targets and Board the Platforms, it may be for the best to implement those within stage builder this time around and allow for players to make and download custom bonus stages to play with.

That should hopefully make a few things a bit more manageable for the dev's.

When it comes to the characters, I guess they should do what they have been doing since Brawl and bring over as much of the past assets of the last game as they can and update/expand on them for the latest hardware while bringing in new content into the game.

 

[FurretBro]

When do you think Hero will be releasing?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wait, wait, wait, where did Sakurai he wouldn't refer to the ballot for another game?

I mean, the ballot was noted it would be potentially used for future games, not just one.

That said, Geno being 3rd party and not relevant is always going to hurt his chances. Sakurai doesn't just get a character automatically if he wants them. It's never been that simple. He even noted he failed to get Snake back during Smash 4(the context of the interview isn't clear if he attempted to get him back during base, DLC, or both, mind you).

 

[StormC]

Wait, wait, wait, where did Sakurai he wouldn't refer to the ballot for another game?

The only thing Sakurai said is he doesn't think there will be another Smash Ballot.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

They're not.

Why do you think they are not resource intensive? I get not wanting the omega and battlefield modes if you feel like it is unneeded, but what evidence do you have to refute the director of the game on what is actually resource intensive and what is not?

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

When do you think Hero will be releasing?

probably this month

 

[DarthEnderX]

I get not wanting the omega and battlefield modes if you feel like it is unneeded

I don't. That's what the other guy was saying.

but what evidence do you have to refute the director of the game on what is actually resource intensive and what is not?

Because it's literal reskins of the same 2 levels using skins that already exist because they're taken from the full versions of the level.

If you think that's resource intensive...I don't know what to tell you.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Don't believe it's that simple with licensing stuff and what have you. And giving it a longer development period isn't a one-fix solution.

Licensing only matters for third party characters. Even if no third party characters return (which is unlikely) that's 13 to 15 characters being cut. And that's 13 to 15 newcomers that can replace them.

 

[dezeray112]

When do you think Hero will be releasing?

I'd predict this month for sure.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I don't. That's what the other guy was saying.

Because it's literal reskins of the same 2 levels using skins that already exist because they're taken from the full versions of the level.

If you think that's resource intensive...I don't know what to tell you.

Reskining stages takes a lot more work than just simply copy/pasting textures. I’m not saying it’s as labor intensive as creating a new level, but various new assets and programming must be considered to make the stage work.

Take Big Blue for example

Both the main platform and the 3 smaller platforms are not found in the original level and are entirely new assets that had to be designed and modeled. They also have to change the background to feature the race track and change it so it doesn’t go upside down like the regular stage.

These may seem like small changes, but each one requires time and resources to do. Now multiple this by 100 due to sheer amount of stages and you can see why it would become resource intensive.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

When do you think Hero will be releasing?

Mid to late August. If it was this month we probably would have gotten a release date.

Licensing only matters for third party characters.

Aren't certain companies within Nintendo more difficult to negotiate with? The Pokémon Company comes to mind.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Aren't certain companies within Nintendo more difficult to negotiate with? The Pokémon Company comes to mind.

I'd say the Pokemon Company is the opposite of difficult to deal with. They even give Sakurai concept art of characters from future games so they can be added to Smash. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a corporate mandate that Smash needs to feature a new Pokemon every game.

Still, if Pokemon proved difficult to negotiate and there needed to be cuts, you wouldn't see me complaining.

 

[Klimax]

The worst thing about this DLC cycle is that first party characters are out of the running and it's sad since Smash has to represent Nintendo first, not gaming as a whole.

 

[Deleted member]

The worst thing about this DLC cycle is that first party characters are out of the running and it's sad since Smash has to represent Nintendo first, not gaming as a whole.

Disagree. Smash is a game rather than something to measure representation from a company, if third parties or first parties help the game achieve this then it shouldn't really matter where the character comes from.

 

[Opossum]

The worst thing about this DLC cycle is that first party characters are out of the running and it's sad since Smash has to represent Nintendo first, not gaming as a whole.

In theory there's nothing stopping a first party character so long as they can bring their own set of spirits.

 

[N3ON]

The worst thing about this DLC cycle is that first party characters are out of the running and it's sad since Smash has to represent Nintendo first, not gaming as a whole.

Assuming the final two characters are third-party, Nintendo characters will still make up over 80% of the roster. Almost 90%, if you choose to not pick up the Fighters Pass characters.

 

[Klimax]

Disagree. Smash is a game rather than something to measure representation from a company, if third parties or first parties help the game achieve this then it shouldn't really matter where the character comes from.

A product like Smash is all about showing how much your company has icons, it's a selling point (just look the number of people saying "Nintendo is the best because Sony or Microsoft couldn't have their own smash bros". So yeah, at first, Smash Bros was all about representing Nintendo and it helped to make people more interested about Nintendo's history. Now, silly newcomer suggestions are all over the place.

In theory there's nothing stopping a first party character so long as they can bring their own set of spirits.

Obvious marketing makes it obvious that all of the DLC are third party.

Assuming the final two characters are third-party, Nintendo characters will still make up over 80% of the roster. Almost 90%, if you choose to not pick up the Fighters Pass characters.

The problem is not the present number, the problem is that including third party characters opened the pandorax box, because we all know how people are. You give them 1, they want 2 and that's basically a neverending cycle. That's exactly why including Goku would be the biggest mistake possible, not because he's not from a video game but because after his inclusion, too many morons would be like "now I want Monkey D. Luffy because you know, according to facts, One Piece is the most popular manga in existence.". Or they should stop listening to the fans.

 

[Idon]

In theory there's nothing stopping a first party character so long as they can bring their own set of spirits.

In theory.

In practice, I doubt Nintendo is going to break this pattern so far.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Will honestly be pretty disappointed if all of the DLC is third party. Especially if the only DLC character I actually know anything about ends up being Banjo (not that Banjo is disappointing at all). I’d like to see more familiar faces over characters I may have no interest in/prior knowledge of. Plus Banjo would be a good note to end third party characters on. For this game anyways.

 

[StormC]

We'll get more Nintendo newcomers next game. After Smash 4 and now, it's obvious that Nintendo/Sakurai prioritize third party characters for DLC.

 

[Deathcarter]

Disagree. Smash is a game rather than something to measure representation from a company, if third parties or first parties help the game achieve this then it shouldn't really matter where the character comes from.

You say this but its not like Sakurai goes out his way to put in even the notably popular/iconic 1st parties candidates who failed to make base game. We didn't exactly get K. Rool, Isabelle, or a Gen 3 Pokemon in Smash 4 DLC nor does it look like we're getting say Waluigi, Octoling, or Toad/Toadette for DLC this time around.