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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Cosmic77

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I do think the reused Spirits for the ARMS Spirit Board works in favor of characters who are both base game and post game Spirits.

If anything, it just saves him the trouble of making them down the road. Add a few Spirits when a game releases, and then when the fighter comes, you already have three or four Spirits ready. Add a couple more and you've got yourself a Spirit Board.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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At the same time, Nintendo is choosing what Sakurai at least chooses a character from - he doesn't decide who he's getting (unless Nintendo just wants anybody from a certain game/series and nobody specific) nor which company he's working with himself, though he does discuss with Nintendo - and if Sakurai didn't care about this + how they're changing spirit battles as he explained, he's unlikely to deny based on spirits and whatever and Nintendo likely doesn't care either. I don't see why they would care about stuff they added two years ago, anyway. Min Min's spirit board also has basegame spirits in it. If they happen to want to throw Dixie Kong or whoever's fans a bone, they could.

Though I agree in the case that very popular characters such as Waluigi are more-likely promotions.
I can't say I necessarily understand the point here?

ARMS is clearly a special case when it comes to DLC picks, even if Nintendo gives Sakurai a list of characters beforehand. It's the same case with Byleth and Three Houses. It seems like it was less "here's a list of characters for you to choose, let's talk" and more "we want a character from this game in Smash, you're going to make it." In which case, my previous point on allowing upgrades stands because not allowing upgrades would be far too limiting and just wouldn't make sense. However, outside of a special case like this where Nintendo essentially forces Sakurai to add a character, I don't see it happening.

Is it possible? Sure. Just like it's possible I get a girlfriend within the next year. Which isn't likely at all.
 

Rie Sonomura

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In hindsight it’s funny, those Min Min image leaks were fake but we got her anyway
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Min Min is my girlfriend so none of you are allowed to play as her. Sorry I don’t make the rules.
 

TheCJBrine

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I can't say I necessarily understand the point here?

ARMS is clearly a special case when it comes to DLC picks, even if Nintendo gives Sakurai a list of characters beforehand. It's the same case with Byleth and Three Houses. It seems like it was less "here's a list of characters for you to choose, let's talk" and more "we want a character from this game in Smash, you're going to make it." In which case, my previous point on allowing upgrades stands because not allowing upgrades would be far too limiting and just wouldn't make sense. However, outside of a special case like this where Nintendo essentially forces Sakurai to add a character, I don't see it happening.

Is it possible? Sure. Just like it's possible I get a girlfriend within the next year. Which isn't likely at all.
Oh okay I see. I had a feeling I may have read your point wrong tbh and even confused myself a bit but eh.

I think some fan-favorites still have a chance, like Geno, depending on how Nintendo views them, but you have a point.
 

Nemitic

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Oh boy, seeing people expecting Geno. Have you guys not learn your lesson from the past two years already? Ain't happening.
 

SKX31

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Just a random thought: while I doubt this was a reason Min Min was selected, I wonder if having a character with very obvious Chinese inspirations will increase her popularity in China. Or I guess, translate to more sales (of Smash, FP2, Min Min herself)
[ FTR, the big recent Nintendo games there are RFA and New Horizons. The Chinese state delisting New Horizons couldn't stop Animal Crossing, by the by. Instead AC suddenly became "Macho Man picking up tree branches" in Chinese online stores. I estimate there to be close to 4 million Switches in China at the moment (based on Nintendo's Jaunary estimate of 3 million, before New Horizons released and got a lot of attention on Chinese social media), perhaps approaching 5 million if Nintendo got really lucky with AC / RFA. More on the Chinese console situation here.]

As for Min Min being aimed at the Chinese crowd - could happen? Just quickly checked on ARMS in China specifically. And no I don't think it has a particularily strong current following. Reactions on Weibo (Chinese Twitter) and Bilibili (Youtube / Crunchyroll) seems to be rather standard so far (it's safe to say that the reveal will garner at least six figures - my wild guess is 150K+ - there, if not more. Six figures is usual, and Terry / Byleth might hold the current record). The Chinese commentators appear to have particularily noted the two Chinese sentences Min Min spoke.

On her own, I'd say no because ARMS isn't big there. Consoles are relatively niche there, and while Smash has a relatively small but notable Chinese following ARMS doesn't have much of a foothold.

Min Min does appear to have a Chinese nickname ("Noodles" of course!), so she could be a strong "gateway" character. Especially in the event where another character(s) with significant popularity there (LoL, Steve, Reimu etc.) are part of FP2 and Min Min becomes a gateway character into ARMS. Then again, we'll have to see. For example, when the official Chinese release of Smash happens and if they tie a character to that.

[In b4 the entire FP2 turns out to be (partly) aimed at Chinese audiences.]
 

N3ON

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Funny to think that the next presentation may very well have already been filmed by this point.
 

Glaciacott

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In hindsight it’s funny, those Min Min image leaks were fake but we got her anyway
The last character I was this hyped about, Palutena, had pretty much the same exact situation happen: leak right before reveal winds up being fake but the character happens anyway.
They're also both June characters! Ah yes, my main ladies will get along quite well.
 

Kotor

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In hindsight it’s funny, those Min Min image leaks were fake but we got her anyway
Just like the Palutena leak back in SSB4, except for that one, it was never proven to be fake before Palutena's official reveal. Only during the ESRB leak period that we got confirmation the screenshot was ultimately a fake.
 

smashkirby

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There was a problem fetching the tweet

So, looking at Sakurai's house here makes me wonder... was I the ONLY person who had THIS immediately come to their mind?:
1592846762161.png
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I do think the reused Spirits for the ARMS Spirit Board works in favor of characters who are both base game and post game Spirits.

If anything, it just saves him the trouble of making them down the road. Add a few Spirits when a game releases, and then when the fighter comes, you already have three or four Spirits ready. Add a couple more and you've got yourself a Spirit Board.
I'm not sure of particular Spirit sets, but I WILL say I think this could definitely come in handy for say, Pokemon Sword and Shield.

Assuming post-launch Spirit Events aren't a death sentence, anyway.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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Oh boy, seeing people expecting Geno. Have you guys not learn your lesson from the past two years already? Ain't happening.
I definitely keep expectations in check but...

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: These types of posts are officially denial or troll post now Now that min min killed the spirit's deconfirm rule that rule was the only major roadblock geno had
 
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SirBillyBob

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The fact that we got 18 tracks from ARMS does make Byleth's music selection all the more disappointing, even if there would've been overlap with base game music.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I definitely keep expectations in check but...

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: These types of posts are officially denial or troll post now Now that min min killed the spirit's deconfirm rule that rule was the only major roadblock geno had
Geno's absolutely on the table but let's not pretend that Spirits were the biggest roadblock he ever had
 

Rie Sonomura

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The fact that we got 18 tracks from ARMS does make Byleth's music selection all the more disappointing, even if there would've been overlap with base game music.
I’m just super disappointed Byleth didn’t come with Shambala. Screw God Shattering Star, that song S L A P S
 

Cosmic77

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I'm not sure of particular Spirit sets, but I WILL say I think this could definitely come in handy for say, Pokemon Sword and Shield.

Assuming post-launch Spirit Events aren't a death sentence, anyway.
Well, I guess that's one thing we can agree on.

For now, I'm putting all Spirits back on the table. The argument that Sakurai wouldn't bother making a Spirit Event for future DLC doesn't hold much weight since it's no longer time wasted. He can reuse Spirits and add on to what he already has.
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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Well, I guess that's one thing we can agree on.

For now, I'm putting all Spirits back on the table. The argument that Sakurai wouldn't bother making a Spirit Event for future DLC doesn't hold much weight since it's no longer time wasted. He can reuse Spirits and add on to what he already has.
>Resident Evil

S-so you're saying there's a chance?

"Resident Evil, known as Biohazard in Japan, is the peak design of the horror genre in games. With Resident Evil 8 coming to consoles soon, the series is still as relevant as ever. It is Capcom's highest profiting series, and only has a small selection of spirits. Here's how Resident Evil can still win-"
 

RawstyleEevee

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I hope Min Min destroying spirit rule, favours Resident Evil now to (also feel Rex & Pyra and a Gen 8 mon's chances skyrocketed to)
 

N3ON

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I definitely keep expectations in check but...

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: These types of posts are officially denial or troll post now Now that min min killed the spirit's deconfirm rule that rule was the only major roadblock geno had
I'm going to sound like a broken record but the major roadblock Geno has is his existence and ownership: he's a (virtually) one-off supporting character from an old spin-off owned by a fairly austere third-party. Being a spirit was never the biggest of his roadblocks.

He would've gotten in long before spirits were even a thing if it weren't for that other stuff. That's the stuff keeping him out.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Min Min looks like a surprisingly deep character that also took some cool inspiration from Chun-Li. I hoped that we would see ARMS go a different route as the ARMS roster had what seemed to me no clear main character, and I was happy to be right on the money about that part. Min Min and this Challenger Pack feels more like showing off ARMS as a whole concept as opposed to any individual one fighter too, even if Min Min gets to be playable in her full glory. Min Min was always a popular choice in and out of the ARMS community, so it seems like an ideal situation to include her with Spring Man already in the game in a different role.

I would still caution people from really using ARMS as much of a roadmap for upgrades too though. ARMS had a very specific set of circumstances leading to it being less represented in the base game and timing seemed to hit it harder than anything else. This works in favor of newer titles like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 that have otherwise released at an inopportune time for inclusion in Smash and maybe this does open up a little bit more room for some characters if they couldn't be priority due to a lower number of base newcomers... but I don't really think much has moved for most Spirits. Someone like Bandanna Dee might have a bit better of a shot now, but that depends on what Nintendo is looking to get out of this Fighter's Pass too. There still remains a lot of questions as to what this pass will look like, and what Nintendo will pull from. Kahn clearly has his own ideas about what Nintendo might try to do, but I don't know if I agree with his analysis considering where Nintendo's IPs seemingly already are in the game and how Ultimate was always going to be losing fighters as they started talking future titles anyway.

Oh well, glad to have a new character soon and the info today was solid. She looks fun and ARMS looks to have gotten a lot of of great love. Vault Boy is an awesome costume to have as well...

Just a shame Heihachi died for ARMS to live with the unique controlling multiple limbs mechanic...
 

Cutie Gwen

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3BitSaurus

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People really be using Min Min in Smash to say that ARMS will now push her primarily, huh.

In fighting games, there's sometimes a big difference between being the most popular character/mascot and the "bread and butter/P1 default character". And Min Min seems to be considered the former - at least in Yabuki's eyes, this does not mean she'll become the latter.
 

N3ON

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Well even Jill and co could still be out, doesn't mean we could not get Nemesis afterall Min Min shows a franchise can be repped and you don't have to be the main protagonist.

Only reason you need for why Nemesis made it into Smash would be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlrXrwdpwl4&start=120
As much as I'd love to hear how Sakurai can spin Nemesis into the protagonist, opening these kind of floodgates is only going to leave a lot of people disappointed.
 

AceAttorney9000

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Well even Jill and co could still be out, doesn't mean we could not get Nemesis afterall Min Min shows a franchise can be repped and you don't have to be the main protagonist.

Only reason you need for why Nemesis made it into Smash would be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlrXrwdpwl4&start=120
I don't disagree that Nemesis would be a decent choice for a Resident Evil rep, but I think I can provide an even better reason for him to be in Smash...
 

Nekoo

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I think people really need to really think about what we learned through that presentation after rewatching it, and everything we know, and they should stop taking everything as "It's black or white" face value. So far, what we can take from what we learned...

"THE PROTAGONIST RULES IS GONE!"
It is not. The protagonist rule is still in place, and visibly, it even was Sakurai's concern as he did bring up "Wait, why no SpringMan" when talking with the ARMS director, he claimed that "All characters are Protagonists" which, whenever you hate it, like it, or try to find a spin on it. In the end, the Director/Creator have the last word, and we must go with their words.

"SPIRIT RULES IS ****ING GONE! WHOOOHOOO!"
I think that one is more nuanced than that. And people really should calm their horses, and not see it as "IT DECONFIRM" or "THE RULE IS DEAD". As in like, each characters has it's own context behind it and should be taken as it's own case.

It's also important to remember that visibly, ARMS is a special case, EVEN in the Smash development itself, as it was a request from Nintendo, and from the way Sakurai talk about it, it seems that Nintendo rather told him to make a Fighter from ARMS instead of a specifics characters, and he then went to look out for a character, visibly himself going for Ninjara, before asking what the ARMS creator would want in smash, where he clearly asked for Min-Min.

Try to be a japanese game developper refusing your co-worker's wish and character from his own game because you made it a Spirit.
That...Wouldn't fly, even by Sakurai logic or whatever fan-rules that exist. As such, Min-Min being an Upgrade is great in that sense, but should be taken so far, as a first case scenario, opening possibilities, instead of a "Yeah, it's totally happening."

There is also the special case of Spirit Events, which In my opinion still hard deconfirm any characters appearing there. Even more Third Parties event ones. As those spirits and event would just be overlapping with the current DLC schedules if they had a DLC characters that was going to happens, by that I mean-
Why would you make a Resident Evil Spirit Event, if down the line, especially with the timeline they released, you made a deal for a fighter AND Spirits that would be sold togethers nonetheless?

Basically, for Spirits, it should be taken as a "Hey, it's possible, but she might be the only instance of it because of the context" than "OH **** YEAH LET'S GO! ZACIAN NEXT FIGHTER ON MY WAY!" for exemple with Pokémon.

"AT ARE NOT DEAD!"

I think the fact that Sakurai was thinking about Ninjara himself and not Spring-Man sneakily tell us that he consider Boingy Boy represented enough and that he wouldn't Upgrade and AT.

"WHAT ABOUT MII COSTUMES?!"

DLC Mii costumes are still for me the hardest deconfirm you can get for a characters, and even probably a company. For exemple, Heihachi being deconfirmed today, totally rule him out for the Fighter Pass 2, however, it doesn't rule out Namco, who could get a Tales of Characters for exemple, with Mii Costume focused on RPG/Tales of. But not only that, Heihachi's Mii costume being back, also put the remaining 3rd Parties Mii Costumes and Characters that have yet to come back from S4 in a very shaky spots.... (Hi Lloyd and Geno.) where them coming back in a future pass would also decomfirm them.

HOWEVER- The Vault Boy Mii Costume is a special case, where I'm willing to take that extra-step and say that Bethesda won't get any character this pass. Why?
I think that, in the event where a company would be introduced in Smash, they would bring their set of Mii Costume with them, like we saw with Cloud, Joker, Hero and Terry. Banjo being the only surprising omission probably because of Microsoft.
I feel that it would be weird to release a Fallout Mii Costume, when you could release it alongside let's say DoomGuy in a Mii Costume showcase focused on their IP, just like the others did?


That's all, that's the most rational way to look at the situation, where nothing is a guaranteed until proved otherwise, some "rules" still stands, others do not, unless we see down the line that it was just a special occasion exemple, if we see that Min-Min was the only promotion of this pass.

I'm now excited to see where the speculation will go. But I just hope it won't go too crazy and toxic, and people will stay with the famous "Hype responsibly" and "Think before Hyping."
 

RawstyleEevee

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As much as I'd love to hear how Sakurai can spin Nemesis into the protagonist, opening these kind of floodgates is only going to leave a lot of people disappointed.
Well its the most iconic RE monster, still offcourse would still prefer Jill myself
 

Faso115

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I think Nemesis is kind of too visceral for the rating this game has.

Sure, his blood is purple. Sure, he is mostly safe compared to other mutants and BOW but that kinda detracts from what makes Nemmy look cool
 

Evil Trapezium

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We may have gotten Min Min as a spirit promotion but that could also mean she maybe the only promotion we get.
 

RawstyleEevee

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I think Nemesis is kind of too visceral for the rating this game has.

Sure, his blood is purple. Sure, he is mostly safe compared to other mutants and BOW but that kinda detracts from what makes Nemmy look cool
Yeah thats sadly still my main concern regardig getting a playable RE rep, because of the ratings, still I can dream again xD
 

Buffalo Soldier

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Jumping back in here, been a while since I've posted with the wait for a new character.

I think they did a great job with Min Min, seems creative as usual and good to get a female character because I know so many people on here were really dying for that. Always cool to see a new world incorporated on a stage and the biggest advantage of working within Nintendo is all the music they can incorporate without a huge negotiation.

But once again, I feel like I got two characters added with the Vault Boy mii costume. These Delux miis are one of my favorite things about Ultimate.
 

Speed Weed

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HOW are you guys talking about re characters without spirits and not mentioning HIM

the one and only

the chad

BARRY MOTHER****ING BURTON

he is one of the only re characters i know and it's for no other reason than the memes
 

Cutie Gwen

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People really be using Min Min in Smash to say that ARMS will now push her primarily, huh.

In fighting games, there's sometimes a big difference between being the most popular character/mascot and the "bread and butter/P1 default character". And Min Min seems to be considered the former - at least in Yabuki's eyes, this does not mean she'll become the latter.
Maybe, but at the same time, Min Min was not only the most popular, but she kinda, you know, got in Smash before Spring Man. It's similar to what happened with Morrigan Aensland, she was simply a popular character who had relations to the protagonist, Demitri. Ask anyone about Darkstalkers and Morrigan's gonna pop up first, not Demitri. Demitri's only time in a VS game was SNK BS Capcom iirc, yet none of the Capcom made games, with MvC having had like 6 other Darkstalkers yet Demitri never appeared. Granted, Midnight Bliss is a thing, but Morrigan became the mascot and overshadowed Demitri as the protagonist, Min Min may very well have the same fate
 

SuperSmashStephen

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I wonder how long it will be before we get another announcement/reveal?

I’m going to say put Rex & Pyra back on the table, and I am more confident than ever that we are probably going to get a Gen. VIII Pokémon.

I still think Namco deserves another character though, but maybe they are just content with Pac-Man.

I’ll propose this; List 10 Characters you think we could potential see as Fighters for the remainder of this Fighter’s Pass. There’s only 5 left so you get double the chance to guess correctly.

I’ll start.
1. Rex & Pyra/Mythra
2. Generation VIII Pokémon
3. Euden
4. Paper Mario
5. Ryu Hayabusa
6. Tales of Character
7. KOS-MOS (Namco puts her in a lot of crossovers.)
8. Akira (Astral Chain)
9. Sora
10. Geno
 
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