Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Eldrake]

This. There are so many Pokemon that would be incredibly unique and do things nothing else could do, it's a shame Sakurai seems to go for the tamer options.

that gives me an idea for a Fun Forum Game™. Click on this link to get a randomly generated Pokemon. It's in Smash now. Satisfied?
https://randompokemon.com/
I got Mincinno. I am not satisfied.

I got Mudkip.

Admit it, you already know what the tagline is.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

Imagine thinking boring Urshifu will be DLC instead of electric lizard punk rocker

This post was made by Toxtricity gang

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Gengar would be a cool pick.

That said, again, I don't really know that this is a contested point. Nintendo, especially when it comes to DLC, would very likely pick characters that are unique and recognizable, but also paired to advertise the latest generation or games.

I think there's two different conversations being had here. Folks are saying that they want the Pokemon cast to be spread out a bit more and not just restricted to starters, etc. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.

Other folks are engaging in the conversation in terms of, "Is that likely to happen?". Based on previous instances of Pokemon characters in Smash (exception of DLC Mewtwo in Smash 4 because that's an entirely different context), they have almost always opted for mascot Pokemon, or highly recognizable Pokemon in the form of starters. It's not hard to see why they would continue to do so, because it most easily shows itself to viewers. The viewer knows exactly what it's from, for example, and it's easily tied to their particular game. When it is the newest game at the time, it adds incentive for people to buy said newest game. That's why throwing in a Hoenn pick when Sun/Moon is the big game in the series doesn't make any sense.

I don't know that anybody would disagree that particular Pokemon would be cool, but it has become pretty clear that Pokemon are not simply chosen based on who is "cool" or who isn't. They're seemingly chosen with a deliberate effort to look into the newest generation, and if you're not a focal point of the current content/generation, they you probably wouldn't be in Smash.

I would like to think Smash isn't only a marketing machine. But even if it isn't just a marketing machine, it's a damn good one. That's why I would say the best shot Sword/Shield has at getting a playable character would be a starter, or Urshifu.

Which is why these conversations devolve into "I hope the next X series character won't be more of the same." vs. "It will be so shut up."

 

[Guybrush20X6]

It is entirely possible there will simply be no Gen 8 Pokemon pass.

I don't see Game Freak and TPC passing up the opportunity but the possibility is there.

 

[GoodGrief741]

This. There are so many Pokemon that would be incredibly unique and do things nothing else could do, it's a shame Sakurai seems to go for the tamer options.

that gives me an idea for a Fun Forum Game™. Click on this link to get a randomly generated Pokemon. It's in Smash now. Satisfied?
https://randompokemon.com/
I got Mincinno. I am not satisfied.

I got Machoke. I'll admit, it's a good fit.

You know, I've grown to hate these conversations. They really just boil down to:

"I wish the roster of X series would branch out more, and really showcase all the series has to offer instead of vomiting the protagonists at us."
"Well Nintendo will never do that so screw what you want I guess."
"But it shouldn't be that way and in any other series these picks wouldn't be so radical."
"Tough. It ain't happenin'. Move on."

Nothing interesting is said, and the people who want the higher diversity are painted out to be whiney and entitled when that's not often the case.

People don't understand the difference between explanation and justification, just because there's a reason behind something (and there's always a reason, Sakurai isn't an animal) doesn't mean the reason's valid. Saying Pokémon's selection makes sense because of marketing ignores the fact that doing something because it's profitable doesn't mean it'll be good, it's just putting on producer goggles and not looking at the actual grievance.

That isn’t anything like Super Mario, which sticks to essentially the same cast every game. It makes more sense for Mario to get into supporting cast members than it does for games that don’t have the same supporting cast.

You know, I don't recall you using this argument for Zelda, double standard much?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It is entirely possible there will simply be no Gen 8 Pokemon pass.

I don't see Game Freak and TPC passing up the opportunity but the possibility is there.

If they do make a promotional pick, I hope it's one of the later additions so there's a chance it's Cylarex. Because who's more interesting:

A water starter that will immediately compared to Greninja regardless of playstyle,
the 3rd fire starter who's centered around a physics based object, but is otherwise pretty standard,
a grass starter who takes more brain cells to come up with something interesting for and nobody seems to be the awkward cousin of this generations starters, and thus probably wouldn't be picked anyway,
two doggos that get sidelined in their own game and won't likely be picked,
a bear that fights like a normal person,
or one floaty boi?

EDIT: Jokes aside, I think Cylarex has the most potential of the characters that have any chance to bring something wholly unique to it. Eeeeeven if Smash fans will treat it like this.

You know, I don't recall you using this argument for Zelda, double standard much?

I believe he has actually.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It would seem like a good opportunity to put in a character, sure. But Pokémon's been really badly timed for Smash a lot. Gren got in before the games released since Sakurai saw concept art. iirc, same with Cena - they just left a Poké-placeholder in the design document.

With Gen 8 out, I can see them going for one, but there really haven't been any Lucario- or Greninja-esque breakouts lately. Even the popularity charts seem to still favor earlier mons like Eevee or Meowth over the newer ones. Sure, Sirfetch'd and Meltan/Melmetal had some time in the sun, but that seemed more flash-in-the-pan worthy than anything major. And is seems that these starters, more than any since possibly Bulbasaur/Charmander/Squirtle, are much more known in their base forms than their fully evolved forms.

But I will say, the only Pokémon character we've gotten for DLC over both games was a hotly-requested veteran. The only new Nintendo first- or second-party characters from established universes were...a few characters from a franchise we keep dragging up over and over again for the same reasons...

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I got Machoke. I'll admit, it's a good fit.

People don't understand the difference between explanation and justification, just because there's a reason behind something (and there's always a reason, Sakurai isn't an animal) doesn't mean the reason's valid. Saying Pokémon's selection makes sense because of marketing ignores the fact that doing something because it's profitable doesn't mean it'll be good, it's just putting on producer goggles and not looking at the actual grievance.

You know, I don't recall you using this argument for Zelda, double standard much?

I'd argue that's not necessarily the same thing either.

Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, all three top Nintendo series, are quite different in how their identities exist within media. All mainstream Mario games focus on Mario, just like every mainstream Zelda game focuses on Link, with a different cast of supporting characters. Pokemon (which is also tied to trading cards, anime, among other merchandise) is different every single time, barring remakes, which is just like Fire Emblem. Both of those end up with different mascots or protagonists, which is something that Mario and Zelda do not do. That point isn't really comparable.

Mario and Zelda, despite having shifting supporting cast members, are still quite different from one another. Mario itself is a series that spans genres. Supporting cast members like Rosalina end up in those games, as I assume Pauline also will. The Legend of Zelda does not have that same structure to it. They come in one game, are gone the next.

This isn't even me saying that I think Midna, or Ghirahim, or Revali would be poor choices. I genuinely love the designs of characters from the Zelda series and enjoy the characters. I can't really speak for how Sakurai makes his decisions with Zelda either. But let's also not pretend as though Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon are all the same situations when it comes to the context of their characters and exposure/longevity of them.

If you ask me, the weakness of a Zelda character is that the focus goes from title to title. With Twilight Princess and Brawl, it was "Give Wolf Link and Midna!" Now that's hardly ever heard. Then it was Ghirahim, which now is practically non-existent. Then it was the Champions, and now that BOTW2 is coming, people have jumped to, "Give us a BOTW2 character!" There's no consistent support for any particular character. As it isn't a protagonist of a series with new casts every time (Pokemon, Fire Emblem) Zelda doesn't have that same "new protagonist" concept going for it. It inherently isn't like those two. The best way for that supporting Zelda character to get in is fan demand, but that fan demand isn't constant because it moves from game to game, never focusing.

At least, that's just my observation.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

This. There are so many Pokemon that would be incredibly unique and do things nothing else could do, it's a shame Sakurai seems to go for the tamer options.

that gives me an idea for a Fun Forum Game™. Click on this link to get a randomly generated Pokemon. It's in Smash now. Satisfied?
https://randompokemon.com/
I got Mincinno. I am not satisfied.

I got Blastoise which I've heard was originally considered as part of Pokémon trainer's team.
A bit redundant with Squirtle already there but it's my favourite gen 1 starter line so not bad overall.

 

[MeteoRain]

This. There are so many Pokemon that would be incredibly unique and do things nothing else could do, it's a shame Sakurai seems to go for the tamer options.

that gives me an idea for a Fun Forum Game™. Click on this link to get a randomly generated Pokemon. It's in Smash now. Satisfied?
https://randompokemon.com/
I got Mincinno. I am not satisfied.

Cyndaquil

Still a starter, but it's really cute.

 

[TheCJBrine]

This. There are so many Pokemon that would be incredibly unique and do things nothing else could do, it's a shame Sakurai seems to go for the tamer options.

that gives me an idea for a Fun Forum Game™. Click on this link to get a randomly generated Pokemon. It's in Smash now. Satisfied?
https://randompokemon.com/
I got Mincinno. I am not satisfied.

I got Carkol.

Cool in concept, weird in design transitioning from Rolycoly and then into Coalossal. Ugh.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Took the Pokemon Randomizer. Froslass. Not bad~

 

[3BitSaurus]

Coal in concept

Fixed.

I don't really see a Gen 8 rep happening right now... but you know what I would like? More Pokémon Mii Costumes like the Team Rocket one. Pokémon in Smash has almost no imagery of trainers... which is not hard to understand, considering it revolves around the monsters themselves, but still, I wish at least Gym Leaders, Elite Four members and Champions got some love.

 

[Thermithral]

If we get a Gen 8 rep, I would not be disappointed at all if they pick Falinks. They are cute little armored Kirby Spartans. For the Final Smash, they call in the other squads like Yoshi.

 

[Cosmic77]

Personally, I don't see it being Urshifu. I feel like too many people are focusing on what's relevant today and not considering what comes next.

Whichever Pokemon Nintendo chooses will probably be one that Game Freak believes has the potential to be an icon long after Gen 8 ends. One that's very recognizable and can be used to promote the franchise overall. I'm not convinced just yet that Urshifu is that kind of Pokemon. They could try to make it stick, or maybe they'll let it fizzle out the minute Crowned Tundra comes out.

The anime has always been a reliable source for me when it comes to figuring out which Pokemon GF valued the most. As of now, Cinderace is the only one who I can comfortably say is important to GF. Depending on where things go in the following weeks, Inteleon would be my next guess.

 

[Jomosensual]

Do we think that we're going to get a Sakurai presentation for the ARMS rep? Was just thinking about it and depending on how far along the character is we could just get another reveal in the same way Joker was done with a narrator in the background

Personally I hope we get a Sakurai presentation because seeing him there just feels so much better than not. Can't think of the best way to explain it but you can just tell even though he hasn't taken a break in forever that he really loves what he's doing and is excited to show us what he created for us next

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Personally, I don't see it being Urshifu. I feel like too many people are focusing on what's relevant today and not considering what comes next.

Whichever Pokemon Nintendo chooses will probably be one that Game Freak believes has the potential to be an icon long after Gen 8 ends. One that's very recognizable and can be used to promote the franchise overall. I'm not convinced just yet that Urshifu is that kind of Pokemon. They could try to make it stick, or maybe they'll let it fizzle out the minute Crowned Tundra comes out.

The anime has always been a reliable source for me when it comes to figuring out which Pokemon GF valued the most. As of now, Cinderace is the only one who I can comfortably say is important to GF. Depending on where things go in the following weeks, Inteleon would be my next guess.

So you're saying there are literally only 2 possible picks from generation 8 and they're the two most boring ones.

Sad days...

 

[Jomosensual]

If we get a Gen 8 rep, I would not be disappointed at all if they pick Falinks. They are cute little armored Kirby Spartans. For the Final Smash, they call in the other squads like Yoshi.

YES SIR!

Finally someone else says it! Welcome to the hype train

This. There are so many Pokemon that would be incredibly unique and do things nothing else could do, it's a shame Sakurai seems to go for the tamer options.

that gives me an idea for a Fun Forum Game™. Click on this link to get a randomly generated Pokemon. It's in Smash now. Satisfied?
https://randompokemon.com/
I got Mincinno. I am not satisfied.

I drew Heatmor. Not sure how to feel on that one

 

[Cosmic77]

So you're saying there are literally only 2 possible picks from generation 8 and they're the two most boring ones.

Sad days...

Keep in mind that the anime was already moving at a snail's pace before the short hiatus. I'm pretty sure the number of Gen 8 Pokemon that've debuted in the anime after nearly 25 episodes is around ten or so. They haven't even hinted to us that Grookey will make an appearance soon.

Give it some more time. Might take a while.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

So, this is off topic yes, but I think we could all use some good news right now.

It’s being reported that Nintendo is double-matching their employees donations.

https://t.co/w57FUqUV5Y

— Uncle Diego 🗯‼️ COMMISSIONS: OPEN 🏁 (@Monodi) June 3, 2020

 

[PeridotGX]

I like Falinks as a Polemon, but I don't think it would work well as Smash character. Assuming one Falink is about the size of Kirby, we would have a character six times the width of Kirby. It's hitbox would be massive.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I like Falinks as a Polemon, but I don't think it would work well as Smash character. Assuming one Falink is about the size of Kirby, we would have a character six times the width of Kirby. It's hitbox would be massive.

I don't imagine they'd make all of them a part of Falinks's hitbox. The bigger issue is their lack of appendages aside from a single horn attached to the leader. Also, their signiture move ups their stats in exchange for not letting them switch out. How on earth would that translate to a fighting game?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If we get a Gen 8 rep, I would not be disappointed at all if they pick Falinks. They are cute little armored Kirby Spartans. For the Final Smash, they call in the other squads like Yoshi.

Nice to see the Falonks support out.

Support thread and supporter list is in my sig if anyone's interested in adding their names

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nice to see the Falonks support out.

I need a picture of Falinks with Lonk faces! Stat!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Personally, I don't see it being Urshifu. I feel like too many people are focusing on what's relevant today and not considering what comes next.

Whichever Pokemon Nintendo chooses will probably be one that Game Freak believes has the potential to be an icon long after Gen 8 ends. One that's very recognizable and can be used to promote the franchise overall. I'm not convinced just yet that Urshifu is that kind of Pokemon. They could try to make it stick, or maybe they'll let it fizzle out the minute Crowned Tundra comes out.

The anime has always been a reliable source for me when it comes to figuring out which Pokemon GF valued the most. As of now, Cinderace is the only one who I can comfortably say is important to GF. Depending on where things go in the following weeks, Inteleon would be my next guess.

Hold up Urshifu, the face of half of the DLC, wasn't meant to stand out? The only people who decide whether it has lasting appeal are the fans, but the Isle of Armour had Urshifu as the face of the DLC pack, no other new Pokemon got pushed as much Urshifu. I don't care for it at all but it's literally the most marketed part of the DLC so far yet you're acting as if it's just a random mon you can catch

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hold up Urshifu, the face of half of the DLC, wasn't meant to stand out? The only people who decide whether it has lasting appeal are the fans, but the Isle of Armour had Urshifu as the face of the DLC pack, no other new Pokemon got pushed as much Urshifu. I don't care for it at all but it's literally the most marketed part of the DLC so far yet you're acting as if it's just a random mon you can catch

I think he means that when after The Isle of Armour comes out, the focus will shift away from Urshifu, which I don't think is completely baseless since there's a high chance that Cylarex will get pushed a whole lot harder when The Frozen Tundra is nearing completion.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think he means that when after The Isle of Armour comes out, the focus will shift away from Urshifu, which I don't think is completely baseless since there's a high chance that Cylarex will get pushed a whole lot harder when The Frozen Tundra is nearing completion.

That happens to damn near every Pokemon though, the exceptions are Pokemon with new forms, new evolutions or ones fans showed enough positivity too. It's what happened to a proper Johto, Hoenn and Unova rep, they got left behind and all parties involved moved on, I don't see why Urshifu potentially getting the same fate means it should be dismissed, it's like going "Gen Eight Rep please but not that one because I said so"

 

[Cosmic77]

Hold up Urshifu, the face of half of the DLC, wasn't meant to stand out? The only people who decide whether it has lasting appeal are the fans, but the Isle of Armour had Urshifu as the face of the DLC pack, no other new Pokemon got pushed as much Urshifu. I don't care for it at all but it's literally the most marketed part of the DLC so far yet you're acting as if it's just a random mon you can catch

Either you stopped reading my post after the first sentence, or you somehow really misinterpreted my point.

Urshifu is the face of Isle of Armor; that's been established. However, is there anything that suggests Urshifu won't end up like the dozens of other Legendaries and Mythicals before it? Is there anything that suggests that Game Freak will keep promoting it from Crowned Tundra onwards, and that they won't just drop it and move on to new Pokemon?

Urshifu feels like the equivalent of Eevee back during base roster speculation, only the latter actually had a clear legacy. People are focusing on what works best as promotion for what will end up being a very brief period of time. We have no idea what they'll do with Urshifu afterwards and if they'll even care about him, and that's why I feel like we're overestimating him as a candidate.

 

[Digital Hazard]

So here's the one thing I don't get for those pushing on Urshifu: How would it work when it has two different forms? I know there's a whole bunch of people saying it would use elements from both, but... Why? It's not like it can even work as a stance character standpoint considering the whole point is that, depending on how you train Kubfu, it results in whatever form it evolved to.

Yes, I know the Smash team tends to take creative liberties, but we're not in the days of Smash 64 where Ness was made having only one attack he actually had in his game because it mattered less how the character was portrayed and more that they were arounf at all; they also need to consult the developers of the original character in order to get approval for stuff.

To put into perspective, it'd be a less extreme but still somewhat similar case as if Hitmontop, Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee were made into a single character.

imo it would just be one form over the other.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I don't imagine they'd make all of them a part of Falinks's hitbox. The bigger issue is their lack of appendages aside from a single horn attached to the leader. Also, their signiture move ups their stats in exchange for not letting them switch out. How on earth would that translate to a fighting game?

I imagine it would be a down special and would be something of a cross between Monado Arts and Lucario's aura.

When activated Falink's attack speed and damage increase along with it's weight while cutting it's jump height that lasts until you're KO'd but the effect of the boost is dependant on your standing in the match.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Either you stopped reading my post after the first sentence, or you somehow really misinterpreted my point.

Urshifu is the face of Isle of Armor; that's been established. However, is there anything that suggests Urshifu won't end up like the dozens of other Legendaries and Mythicals before it? Is there anything that suggests that Game Freak will keep promoting it from Crowned Tundra onwards, and that they won't just drop it and move on to new Pokemon?

Urshifu feels like the equivalent of Eevee back during base roster speculation, only the latter actually had a clear legacy. People are focusing on what works best as promotion for what will end up being a very brief period of time. We have no idea what they'll do with Urshifu afterwards and if they'll even care about him, and that's why I feel like we're overestimating him as a candidate.

Considering we've only had promotional Pokemon since Brawl, I really fail to see why Urshifu being seen as likely due to promotional potential is suddenly bad. We got the Kanto starters because "LOOK KANTO REMAKES!" We got Lucario because "LOOK THE THING THEY KEPT PUSHING IN DAMN NEAR EVERY WAY!". After that it's a placeholder slot predetermined for whatevee Pokemon game's in development. Ultimate's non playable representation was mostly gen 7 but also gen 3 to go "LOOK HOENN REMAKES". People noticed a pattern for the past decade and you're acting as if people picking up on how the last 6 Pokemon we've gotten were added with promotional reasons are wrong for saying that the next Pokemon will likely be added for promotional reasons

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Either you stopped reading my post after the first sentence, or you somehow really misinterpreted my point.

Urshifu is the face of Isle of Armor; that's been established. However, is there anything that suggests Urshifu won't end up like the dozens of other Legendaries and Mythicals before it? Is there anything that suggests that Game Freak will keep promoting it from Crowned Tundra onwards, and that they won't just drop it and move on to new Pokemon?

Urshifu feels like the equivalent of Eevee back during base roster speculation, only the latter actually had a clear legacy. People are focusing on what works best as promotion for what will end up being a very brief period of time. We have no idea what they'll do with Urshifu afterwards and if they'll even care about him, and that's why I feel like we're overestimating him as a candidate.

Aren't you kind of holistically arguing against a Gen VIII rep with that line of reasoning? We don't have any idea what they'll do with the vast majority of Gen VIII or how much staying power the Pokemon will have it. As you said earlier, the anime hasn't even really delved into this, so if it's a knock against Urshifu, it's a knock against all Gen VIII Pokemon since we don't know if they'll just drop them and move on to new Pokemon.

Not to mention, Greninja and Incineroar both got expanded roles in the anime, but they were chosen well before that happened in the respective generations of the anime (Greninja was chosen on concept art pretty much alone prior to even being fully developed and released to the public). Promotional Pokemon have entirely been the basis of Pokemon's Smash representation. Saying we "can't know what they'll do later" is basically a self defeating argument to avoid talking about Pokemon in Smash in general, and hell Smash Speculation in general too.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So here's the one thing I don't get for those pushing on Urshifu: How would it work when it has two different forms? I know there's a whole bunch of people saying it would use elements from both, but... Why? It's not like it can even work as a stance character standpoint considering the whole point is that, depending on how you train Kubfu, it results in whatever form it evolved to.

Yes, I know the Smash team tends to take creative liberties, but we're not in the days of Smash 64 where Ness was made having only one attack he actually had in his game because it mattered less how the character was portrayed and more that they were arounf at all; they also need to consult the developers of the original character in order to get approval for stuff.

To put into perspective, it'd be a less extreme but still somewhat similar case as if Hitmontop, Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee were made into a single character.

imo it would just be one form over the other.

As far as I know, the only possible way to do this would be to have two of them. You'd control one of them directly, swap them with Down Special, and have them team up for certain attacks like their throws. It'd be like a double battle except they're both assumed to be wild Pokémon. There's no way they'll just pick one. To keep the work load down, they'd be Ken style Echo Fighters of each other (in that they're around that much different from each other), which in theory, works because alternate forms generally have movesets that are the same except for a few key attacks.

Also, your analogy is off since those are separate Pokémon. It'd be more comparable to fusing the male and female forms of Meowstic or Indeedee.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes, I know the Smash team tends to take creative liberties, but we're not in the days of Smash 64 where Ness was made having only one attack he actually had in his game because it mattered less how the character was portrayed and more that they were arounf at all; they also need to consult the developers of the original character in order to get approval for stuff.

He has the Baseball Bat and his Yo-Yo. So not just one.

But yeah, agreed. It's changed a lot since then.

Besides, they could make it work with a switch-out mechanic, akin to Zelda/Sheik, though that did only "okay" as a concept.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Besides, they could make it work with a switch-out mechanic, akin to Zelda/Sheik, though that did only "okay" as a concept.

It seems to work well with the Pokémon Trainer nowadays. I think it failed with Zelda and Sheik because they don't properly mirror each other...Or because Zelda sucked...

And Zero Suit Samus was basically an Easter egg in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

 

[Cosmic77]

So here's the one thing I don't get for those pushing on Urshifu: How would it work when it has two different forms? I know there's a whole bunch of people saying it would use elements from both, but... Why? It's not like it can even work as a stance character standpoint considering the whole point is that, depending on how you train Kubfu, it results in whatever form it evolved to.

Yes, I know the Smash team tends to take creative liberties, but we're not in the days of Smash 64 where Ness was made having only one attack he actually had in his game because it mattered less how the character was portrayed and more that they were arounf at all; they also need to consult the developers of the original character in order to get approval for stuff.

To put into perspective, it'd be a less extreme but still somewhat similar case as if Hitmontop, Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee were made into a single character.

imo it would just be one form over the other.

I doubt they'd make an Urshifu that can switch between forms at will, but if they're adamant about adding Urshifu, I could see them taking some liberties for the sake of making it feel more unique.

I agree though. It makes very little sense, and I don't see how they could stay true to the games while incorporating both forms. The best answer I can come up with is having it mysteriously unevolve after each stock is taken, but even that idea feels really weird and out of place.

Considering we've only had promotional Pokemon since Brawl, I really fail to see why Urshifu being seen as likely due to promotional potential is suddenly bad. We got the Kanto starters because "LOOK KANTO REMAKES!" We got Lucario because "LOOK THE THING THEY KEPT PUSHING IN DAMN NEAR EVERY WAY!". After that it's a placeholder slot predetermined for whatevee Pokemon game's in development. Ultimate's non playable representation was mostly gen 7 but also gen 3 to go "LOOK HOENN REMAKES". People noticed a pattern for the past decade and you're acting as if people picking up on how the last 6 Pokemon we've gotten were added with promotional reasons are wrong for saying that the next Pokemon will likely be added for promotional reasons

Pokemon Trainer got in Smash because Sakurai had a unique concept for representing the human protagonists, not because he wanted to promote a couple of remakes. If that was his goal, he could've just added Charizard or any other random Gen 1 Pokemon and called it a day.

As for the other three Pokemon, Greninja is really the only one who could qualify as promotional, unless you're claiming that two years after SuMo was released was an ideal time to promote the games via Incineroar. Lucario came about a year and a half later after DP.

New Pokemon might be prioritized over older ones, but it's not always because they're just looking for a Pokemon that will promote their latest games. It's not a coincidence that Sakurai always seems to choose the Pokemon who GF promote more than others.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And Zero Suit Samus was basically an Easter egg in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

The ability to switch to ZSS without using the Smash Ball was an Easter Egg. But you couldn't switch back without the Smash Ball, so...

 

[Digital Hazard]

Besides, they could make it work with a switch-out mechanic, akin to Zelda/Sheik, though that did only "okay" as a concept.

It seems to work well with the Pokémon Trainer nowadays. I think it failed with Zelda and Sheik because they don't properly mirror each other...Or because Zelda sucked...

And Zero Suit Samus was basically an Easter egg in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

I don't think Zelda/Sheik are comparable... Sheik is just Zelda with some magic alterations. Urshifu is not a Pokémon like Deoxys or Shaymin in that their different forms are just a change of shape that they could perform at any time, so long they have the right object to perform it.

Urshifu's different forms are more akin to a Pokémon having different evolutions like Eevee and Tyrogue.

Only realistic way I see them implementing a mode change was if they came with a Trainer that possessed and swapped between the two forms like out Pokémon Trainer does.

 

[Cosmic77]

Aren't you kind of holistically arguing against a Gen VIII rep with that line of reasoning? We don't have any idea what they'll do with the vast majority of Gen VIII or how much staying power the Pokemon will have it. As you said earlier, the anime hasn't even really delved into this, so if it's a knock against Urshifu, it's a knock against all Gen VIII Pokemon since we don't know if they'll just drop them and move on to new Pokemon.

Not to mention, Greninja and Incineroar both got expanded roles in the anime, but they were chosen well before that happened in the respective generations of the anime (Greninja was chosen on concept art pretty much alone prior to even being fully developed and released to the public). Promotional Pokemon have entirely been the basis of Pokemon's Smash representation. Saying we "can't know what they'll do later" is basically a self defeating argument to avoid talking about Pokemon in Smash in general, and hell Smash Speculation in general too.

Just because Greninja and Incineroar didn't appear until later doesn't mean we couldn't tell which starter GF favored.

Neither of these Pokemon were particularly surprising to me, as both Froakie and Litten were given more meaningful character development within the first few episodes of their respective anime series than the other starters. That tells me that the writers had probably always planned on these Pokemon evolving as a part of their development. The concept art of Incineroar with Ash helps prove my point.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think Zelda/Sheik are comparable... Sheik is just Zelda with some magic alterations. Urshifu is not a Pokémon like Deoxys or Shaymin in that their different forms are just a change of shape that they could perform at any time, so long they have the right object to perform it.

Urshifu's different forms are more akin to a Pokémon having different evolutions like Eevee and Tyrogue.

Only realistic way I see them implementing a mode change was if they came with a Trainer that possessed and swapped between the two forms like out Pokémon Trainer does.

Same mechanic, different aesthetics. Pokemon Trainer is just literally Zelda/Sheik's transformation mechanic with slight alterations; less lag/hurtboxes, cycles among 3 in a particular order instead of 2. The other mechanic unique to PT(besides having 3 instead of 2) is Type weaknesses in particular.

So like I said, akin to Zelda/Sheik, which is switching out to another character(but only two total characters). Doesn't need another Trainer for even that, since the two can tag-team by tagging one in from the background. In addition to that, they don't even need to do more than name it Urshifu to get the point down. You switch out with the other forme via a Tag Team specifically.

I guess I didn't explain it too well. We have yet to have a Switch Out character(using 2 only) that isn't a pure transformation, so I can see where the confusion is. But that'd also make it the first one that does it somewhat differently.