Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Megadoomer]

New POTD

pic.twitter.com/3lRCVT46MT

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) June 1, 2020

B E E S

This seems relevant:

(From the Last Days of Foxhound webcomic)

 

[OnyanRings]

This seems relevant:

(From the Last Days of Foxhound webcomic)

IT'S HIP

But where do the bees come from ? Is that the hive item from AC ?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well, we're in June and no one make the joke yet, so...

Spoiler: Europe intensifies

As a rule of thumb, you can pretty safely throw out any supposed leak saying Max Brass is the ARMS fighter. He's pretty much 4chan's new Steve, where they're literally only pushing him to demoralize people (in this case, people who think Assists or Spirits have a chance). Basically just being contrarian douchebags.

Thanks for breaking my heart, Opo

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Here we are

June is here

So now when will the arms rep winner will be shown?

 

[Dark Bagel]

Here we are

June is here

So now when will the arms rep winner will be shown?

June 30th, at 11:59pm.

 

[Eldrake]

Here we are

June is here

So now when will the arms rep winner will be shown?

Shown at June 30th in 2021.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Shown at June 30th in 2021.

Nintendo technically never said which year, did they?

 

[skylanders fan]

I’m gonna say June 11th at 11:11 cst

 

[Megadoomer]

6月2日（火）22時より、Nintendo Switchソフト『ポケットモンスター ソード・シールド エキスパンションパス』に関する新情報の公開が決定！
ぜひチェックしてね！https://t.co/6D0tsz56JB #ポケモン剣盾 pic.twitter.com/YRiHwV3c8W

— ポケモン公式 (@Pokemon_cojp) June 1, 2020

News on the Pokemon expansion pass is going to be revealed tomorrow. (it's June 2nd at 10 pm Japan time - I think that would be 9 am Eastern) I think there was a Pokemon presentation last year before E3 (correct me if I'm wrong - I could be thinking of 2018, or I could be completely off-base), so hopefully that's a sign that we'll get the ARMS reveal (and hopefully a Nintendo Direct) within the next week or so.

 

[Perkilator]

Well, time to bring about my 10.most wanted yet again! I even slipped in some support threads this time, which you'll find in the names:

1. Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)
2. Sakura Shinguji (Sakura Wars)
3. Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
4. DeMille (Tomato Adventure)
5. Adeleine and Ribbon (Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards)
6. Bandana Dee (Kirby: Return to Dream Land)
7. Euden (Dragalia Lost)
8. Dig Dug/Taizo Hori (Dig Dug)
9. Crash Bandicoot (Cash Banooca)
10. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)

Honorable mention I forgot to add: Min Min (ARMS)

 

[Garteam]

Keep in mind, Paper Mario: Origami King and the March 26th Nintendo Direct were both dropped on Thursday, so a Thursday sometime this month seems to be the most likely option.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

6月2日（火）22時より、Nintendo Switchソフト『ポケットモンスター ソード・シールド エキスパンションパス』に関する新情報の公開が決定！
ぜひチェックしてね！https://t.co/6D0tsz56JB #ポケモン剣盾 pic.twitter.com/YRiHwV3c8W

— ポケモン公式 (@Pokemon_cojp) June 1, 2020

News on the Pokemon expansion pass is going to be revealed tomorrow. (it's June 2nd at 10 pm Japan time - I think that would be 9 am Eastern) I think there was a Pokemon presentation last year before E3 (correct me if I'm wrong - I could be thinking of 2018, or I could be completely off-base), so hopefully that's a sign that we'll get the ARMS reveal (and hopefully a Nintendo Direct) within the next week or so.

Yeah it was literally 1 week before Nintendo's presentation last year, yet they showed the exact same info alongside Nessa. Really, one of the reasons I thought Nintendo's presentation was mediocre was hyping up the exact same ****

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Here we are

June is here

So now when will the arms rep winner will be shown?

Either revealed June 11th and released on the 16th.

Or

Revealed and released on June 16th.

Keep in mind, Paper Mario: Origami King and the March 26th Nintendo Direct were both dropped on Thursday, so a Thursday sometime this month seems to be the most likely option.

Paper Mario confirmed for FP7.

 

[Pokelego999]

6月2日（火）22時より、Nintendo Switchソフト『ポケットモンスター ソード・シールド エキスパンションパス』に関する新情報の公開が決定！
ぜひチェックしてね！https://t.co/6D0tsz56JB #ポケモン剣盾 pic.twitter.com/YRiHwV3c8W

— ポケモン公式 (@Pokemon_cojp) June 1, 2020

News on the Pokemon expansion pass is going to be revealed tomorrow. (it's June 2nd at 10 pm Japan time - I think that would be 9 am Eastern) I think there was a Pokemon presentation last year before E3 (correct me if I'm wrong - I could be thinking of 2018, or I could be completely off-base), so hopefully that's a sign that we'll get the ARMS reveal (and hopefully a Nintendo Direct) within the next week or so.

Finally, I want to see more info on those new regis.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I’m betting next week for the reveal. Wasn’t that the week that E3 was originally going to happen during anyway?

I also think we’ll get the next character revealed even if it’s just the CG trailer. I think they know that the Arms character won’t excite everyone, so they’ll reveal someone more exciting to boost Pass sales.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Finally, I want to see more info on those new regis.

I'm still waiting for a Gigantamax Melmetal event dammit!

 

[Jomosensual]

As a rule of thumb, you can pretty safely throw out any supposed leak saying Max Brass is the ARMS fighter. He's pretty much 4chan's new Steve, where they're literally only pushing him to demoralize people (in this case, people who think Assists or Spirits have a chance). Basically just being contrarian douchebags.

Not sure why Max is their choice for a bad pick. Even though I'm not sure a heavy character is going to be the rep there's for sure worse choices

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Spoiler: Media

6月2日（火）22時より、Nintendo Switchソフト『ポケットモンスター ソード・シールド エキスパンションパス』に関する新情報の公開が決定！
ぜひチェックしてね！https://t.co/6D0tsz56JB #ポケモン剣盾 pic.twitter.com/YRiHwV3c8W

— ポケモン公式 (@Pokemon_cojp) June 1, 2020

Oh good! I hope they show off just how much this adds to the game. I mean, it doesn't have to spoil anything, but it needs to give us a good indication of how substantial this DLC is.

Here's to hoping it's not just a foofy side event that can be completed in 5 minutes. It'd be great for things like that to happen to the mythical Pokémon, but it's not worth $30 for 10 more minutes of gameplay.

Not sure why Max is their choice for a bad pick. Even though I'm not sure a heavy character is going to be the rep there's for sure worse choices

In order to emphasis Max Brass's abilities, I don't think he'll be a super heavyweight until he pumps up. My guess is that his weight value will be 108 (maybe a bit less), and them bump up to 116, or perhaps a bit more to hit it home.

EDIT: If those values don't mean anything to you, this is the difference between KOing * and .

*Bowser Jr. is also this weight, but he dies either earlier or later depending on if you hit the kid or the car.

 

[SNEKeater]

I’m betting next week for the reveal. Wasn’t that the week that E3 was originally going to happen during anyway?

I also think we’ll get the next character revealed even if it’s just the CG trailer. I think they know that the Arms character won’t excite everyone, so they’ll reveal someone more exciting to boost Pass sales.

Yeah. We're almost at E3 season. To clarify: we don't have E3 as we know it, but there are multiple things for gaming news during this month. The Summerfest thing, New Game Plus Expo starting June 23 with news from japanese companies and developers such as Sega, Atlus, SNK, Arc System Works, Koei Tecmo, Spike Chunsoft or Grasshopper. Then there's IGN doing his own thing during the summer with new trailers and interviews from multiple developers, and of course, this week is the PS5 presentation.

So in the end, I'd say that instead of getting 3-4 days of announcements, we're getting new things during all the month. We will get some random and surprise news as well, I think.
Saying this for anyone who could be interested in looking forward to some general gaming news.

 

[Phoenixio]

An entire chunk of the roster would be swordsmen, the one thing that the Smash fandom hates so much.

Well you're missing the point: why do people hate swordsmen? It's not because of gameplay, it's because the characters could be absolutely anything else, and instead there's a repeated and similar design to a bunch of them, all with the anime look and swordfighting mechanics.

But take away the premise of the game, that fighters can be from anywhere, and postulate that they can only be from Fire Emblem instead. And suddenly what you get is a very rich game with tons of potential characters, all within the same theme, all with different gimmicks and mechanics, even if a bunch of them have swords. But with a roster that big, and if they try to be representative of every FE game out there, there'd be tons of axes, lances, bows, magics, and every other lesser known weapons in the games.

Why did they decide to stick mostly to Swords in Smash, when Fire Emblem is all about the weapon triangle, and the relationship between melee weapons and ranged projectiles/magics, I don't know. But there's a lot of depth in FE that could be at least partially translated to a Smash game. And if the focus of the game was on that, instead of a representation of all types of games out there, it'd be one hell of a fun Smash-spinoff to play. And I'd buy it blindly.

Fire Emblem is a GREAT series of games, even if they made poor decisions about its integration in Smash. And again, I blame Lucina and Chrom, because people were loving Marth and Roy back in Melee despite not knowing much about them, and Ike was a nice super-heavy variation on swordsmen, back in Brawl. And Robin is nothing like a swordsfighter, and goes to show how original an all-FE cast could be.

 

[Cosmic77]

Well you're missing the point: why do people hate swordsmen? It's not because of gameplay, it's because the characters could be absolutely anything else, and instead there's a repeated and similar design to a bunch of them, all with the anime look and swordfighting mechanics.

But take away the premise of the game, that fighters can be from anywhere, and postulate that they can only be from Fire Emblem instead. And suddenly what you get is a very rich game with tons of potential characters, all within the same theme, all with different gimmicks and mechanics, even if a bunch of them have swords. But with a roster that big, and if they try to be representative of every FE game out there, there'd be tons of axes, lances, bows, magics, and every other lesser known weapons in the games.

Why did they decide to stick mostly to Swords in Smash, when Fire Emblem is all about the weapon triangle, and the relationship between melee weapons and ranged projectiles/magics, I don't know. But there's a lot of depth in FE that could be at least partially translated to a Smash game. And if the focus of the game was on that, instead of a representation of all types of games out there, it'd be one hell of a fun Smash-spinoff to play. And I'd buy it blindly.

Fire Emblem is a GREAT series of games, even if they made poor decisions about its integration in Smash. And again, I blame Lucina and Chrom, because people were loving Marth and Roy back in Melee despite not knowing much about them, and Ike was a nice super-heavy variation on swordsmen, back in Brawl. And Robin is nothing like a swordsfighter, and goes to show how original an all-FE cast could be.

For me personally, it's never been about the design. If all the characters were handled like Corrin or Byleth, I would be fine. However, if we're going to get someone like Hero, who has a really unique down special but overall feels like a mix-and-match of various attacks from several different swordfighters, then I'd prefer we get a different moveset. I don't want every tilt, aerial, and Smash attack to involve swinging a sword in a slightly different way. I want more variety.

I know people are going to roll their eyes when I say this, but I think an all-Pokemon cast would be better. Designs are varied, practically every species has some type of "magic" or supernatural power, and it's honestly very difficult to make Echoes of Pokemon characters, or at least compared to every other Nintendo franchise.

 

[Jomosensual]

Nowi and Tiki in Smash would be dope. If we're doing more FE reps might as well go for the the most unique ones possible

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I can understand the frustration with every Fire Emblem character in Smash using a sword. Really, I get it.

The thing is, Smash is a mascot crossover. The protagonist of each Fire Emblem game would very likely be the pick, as that is how things have always been. They could have chosen a non-sword user from many games, but that's strictly a pick from a gameplay angle. That's not typically how picks are made.

Robin was picked because he was a main character of his game AND had unique gameplay opportunities.

Anyway, as said before, the problem with the "too many swordfighters" in a mascot crossover isn't really the picks themselves; it's the fact that many character predominantly using a weapon use swords. Very few mascots use a weapon other than a sword.

If you want a Fire Emblem character in Smash that doesn't just use a Sword, then maybe push for Intelligent Systems to change up the look of their protagonists.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

For me personally, it's never been about the design. If all the characters were handled like Corrin or Byleth, I would be fine. However, if we're going to get someone like Hero, who has a really unique down special but overall feels like a mix-and-match of various attacks from several different swordfighters, then I'd prefer we get a different moveset. I don't want every tilt, aerial, and Smash attack to involve swinging a sword in a slightly different way. I want more variety.

I know people are going to roll their eyes when I say this, but I think an all-Pokemon cast would be better. Designs are varied, practically every species has some type of "magic" or supernatural power, and it's honestly very difficult to make Echoes of Pokemon characters, or at least compared to every other Nintendo franchise.

While I don't think that a Fire Emblem platform fighter would be as boring as you make it sound, I do think a traditional fighter would suit the series more, as it's more methodical than it is bombastic. You could even represent more characters through assists.

I agree that the Pokémon series would fit better, though I personally would prefer a 3v3 versus style game for the series.

Nowi and Tiki in Smash would be dope. If we're doing more FE reps might as well go for the the most unique ones possible

Caeda (& the other Pegasus Knights) as well if you can fit in the Pegasus without making her the largest character in the game.

 

[SKX31]

I can understand the frustration with every Fire Emblem character in Smash using a sword. Really, I get it.

The thing is, Smash is a mascot crossover. The protagonist of each Fire Emblem game would very likely be the pick, as that is how things have always been. They could have chosen a non-sword user from many games, but that's strictly a pick from a gameplay angle. That's not typically how picks are made.

Robin was picked because he was a main character of his game AND had unique gameplay opportunities.

Anyway, as said before, the problem with the "too many swordfighters" in a mascot crossover isn't really the picks themselves; it's the fact that many character predominantly using a weapon use swords. Very few mascots use a weapon other than a sword.

If you want a Fire Emblem character in Smash that doesn't just use a Sword, then maybe push for Intelligent Systems to change up the look of their protagonist.

Also, it's worth pointing out that Sakurai's tried to create at least some differences between the FE Lords (even if the ever-dreaded time crunch created the clones to begin with). Such as the sweetspot / sourspot stuff (whether they exist or don't). I haven't seen the competitive community complain as much about the FE clones as say casuals or the people here largely because the more minor differences do matter there.

Roy's journey is an interesting case study: In Melee he had unfinished hitboxes and attacks (due to the timecrunch) and as such no one made much of a splash with him until Don'tTestMe Zain proved that a skilled can beat any . His Smash 4 incarnation suffers a bit from laggy attacks. But now with his Ultimate self? Sakurai's realised his dream and turned him into a high tier attack monster that can convert jabs into much, much more. That might help Roy's chances in future installments or whatever now that he's a viable character.

I know people are going to roll their eyes when I say this, but I think an all-Pokemon cast would be better. Designs are varied, practically every species has some type of "magic" or supernatural power, and it's honestly very difficult to make Echoes of Pokemon characters, or at least compared to every other Nintendo franchise.

I do wonder what you and other Nintendo-leaning people will think if the project TPC and Tencent's working on turns out to be a Pokemon MOBA or other multiplayer-focused game. Now, I presume that you're disinterested in the genre at large, but I'm asking this question since the project could be a proof-of-concept of what you're saying.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

6. Dovahkiin(I dont think hes on the switch)

Skyrim's been on Switch for several years, it was shown in the Switch's reveal trailer, even. (as much as a certain character's fanbase likes to forget)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Keep in mind, Paper Mario: Origami King and the March 26th Nintendo Direct were both dropped on Thursday, so a Thursday sometime this month seems to be the most likely option.

Well Thursdays and Tuesday 9th as it was the original date of E3.

Nintendo was always the good kid who waited until the show before showing what they had so we may get one or more projects who still made that deadline.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I do wonder what you and other Nintendo-leaning people will think if the project TPC and Tencent's working on turns out to be a Pokemon MOBA or other multiplayer-focused game. Now, I presume that you're disinterested in the genre at large, but I'm asking this question since the project could be a proof-of-concept of what you're saying.

A MOBA is very different from a fighting game so it wouldn't be a proof-of-concept for one. However, a Pokémon MOBA could be amazing. Especially if some of the weaker Pokémon can make a name for themselves within it.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I do wonder what you and other Nintendo-leaning people will think if the project TPC and Tencent's working on turns out to be a Pokemon MOBA or other multiplayer-focused game. Now, I presume that you're disinterested in the genre at large, but I'm asking this question since the project could be a proof-of-concept of what you're saying.

I'd be very un-enthused unless they've got some new innovative way or combating the rank toxicity the genre inherently brings.

Pick a non-meta character, reported!
Try out an experimental build, reported!
Give it your all and come up a little short, reported!
Show up in the default skin, REPORT THE PEASANT!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Show up in the default skin, REPORT THE PEASANT!

Wait what? Do you seriously get reported for not paying for skins?

EDIT: Or just preferring the default skin?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Wait what? Do you seriously get reported for not paying for skins?

Not wearing skins or, Arceus-forbid, wearing free skins means you're either a free-to-play noob or worse, a Smurf account. The idea that people simply LIKE the original skins is considered laughable.

 

[Cosmic77]

I do wonder what you and other Nintendo-leaning people will think if the project TPC and Tencent's working on turns out to be a Pokemon MOBA or other multiplayer-focused game. Now, I presume that you're disinterested in the genre at large, but I'm asking this question since the project could be a proof-of-concept of what you're saying.

Sounds interesting, but like any other game, I'll have to actually see it before I can form a solid opinion. I'll give the concept the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Something I find funny is that, despite all the complains on "fE aLwAyS tHe SaMe!1!!" is that Lucina and Chrom might be amongst the better made Echoes around, at least from what I think.

Lucina just has one change, one sole change: The damage output in her sword is different from Marth as she lacks a tipper. And yet, that already makes it so she must be played significantly different: with Marth you must make spacing so the tipper connects, with Lucina, it's more of a rushdown.

Chrom is even more of a step up, not only he lacks Roy's sweetspot but of course has a different recovery.

And even back in Melee when Roy was a straight up clone and an unfinished mess, at least he had a different sweetspot from Marth and a different charge move. As terrible as he was back then.

That's honestly much more than what can be said for Dark Samus, Daisy or Richter, especially Daisy.

Sure, I wish they were more unique, but they are fine as they are imo.

And anyone who calls, Ike, Robin, Corrin and Byleth more Marths is just salty.

As a rule of thumb, you can pretty safely throw out any supposed leak saying Max Brass is the ARMS fighter. He's pretty much 4chan's new Steve, where they're literally only pushing him to demoralize people (in this case, people who think Assists or Spirits have a chance). Basically just being contrarian douchebags.

Dude, I already got over when you cursed me with that Merlin avatar, don't make me don't like you again.

 

[SKX31]

A MOBA is very different from a fighting game so it wouldn't be a proof-of-concept for one. However, a Pokémon MOBA could be amazing. Especially if some of the weaker Pokémon can make a name for themselves within it.

Meant a proof of concept as in a proof of concept on how to differentiate the different Pokemon (especially those sharing a similar elemental theme). The big MOBAs usually do a great job with this by having different animations for different spells etc. Fighting games do this too, to be fair - but an all-Pokemon game could show ways to distinguish attacks so Smash can adapt those for the next Fire / Water / Psychic Pokemon.

I'd be very un-enthused unless they've got some new innovative way or combating the rank toxicity the genre inherently brings.

Pick a non-meta character, reported!
Try out an experimental build, reported!
Give it your all and come up a little short, reported!
Show up in the default skin, REPORT THE PEASANT!

*Vietnam Flashbacks to when I most intensely played Dota 2. Russian words echo in the background.*

Combatting the toxicity is going to be a major issue here too, yes. One way would be to shorten the individual matches so they're not as time-intensive. So people don't get as enraged about decisions made during it (given that this is likely to be a mobile game with perhaps a Switch port like Tencent's own mobile MOBA, it's certainly possible).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Not wearing skins or, Arceus-forbid, wearing free skins means you're either a free-to-play noob or worse, a Smurf account. The idea that people simply LIKE the original skins is considered laughable.

Being default & bad = broke noob.
Being default & good = smurf.

Because clearly nobody enjoys a character's original design.

Clearly.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Being default & bad = broke noob.
Being default & good = smurf.

Because clearly nobody enjoys a character's original design.

Clearly.

You better wear those gaudy limited time Easter 2014 event costumes with the giant ears if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You better wear those gaudy limited time Easter 2014 event costumes with the giant ears if you want to be taken seriously.

So what you're saying is that the TRUE way to play competitive Smash is like this?

 

[MrJudd]

I can understand the frustration with every Fire Emblem character in Smash using a sword. Really, I get it.

The thing is, Smash is a mascot crossover. The protagonist of each Fire Emblem game would very likely be the pick, as that is how things have always been. They could have chosen a non-sword user from many games, but that's strictly a pick from a gameplay angle. That's not typically how picks are made.

Robin was picked because he was a main character of his game AND had unique gameplay opportunities.

Anyway, as said before, the problem with the "too many swordfighters" in a mascot crossover isn't really the picks themselves; it's the fact that many character predominantly using a weapon use swords. Very few mascots use a weapon other than a sword.

If you want a Fire Emblem character in Smash that doesn't just use a Sword, then maybe push for Intelligent Systems to change up the look of their protagonists.

For me, mascot doesn't need to mean protagonist: Just look at staples of the Fire Emblem franchise like Tiki and Anna, which have more game appearences than any other character in the franchise, and I would argue even relevance over some already in Smash. While Tiki would probably be redundant nowadays with Corrin's introduction, Anna has so many routes they can go with moveset in terms of items, weapons and even including money somewhere that would both break the form, be relevant and not anger (as much) people with the classical trope.
While I get that main characters from a recent game are fresher in hindsight and have more chances to be chosen, I wouldn't undervalue the importance of franchise staples as fighters for both relevance and potential [insert it doesn't matter if a character is important quote here]. Some of them can have even more presence than most main characters.
For example: who to choose for a second Final Fantasy fighter if you were meant to represent the franchise as a whole? People would go all over the place in choices: some would choose another 7 rep, because it's the most relevant one, some would choose a hero from another FF. If I choosed the next one, I would go with Vivi from Final Fantasy IX, because of the combination of a main staple of the franchise in the form of the Black Mage, like Chocobo and Moogle, plus a beloved character from a FFFF (that stands for fan-favorite Final Fantasy lol). Also, characters from other FF classes don't share the same visual design like Vivi does the Black Mage classic look.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So what you're saying is that the TRUE way to play competitive Smash is like this?

Spoiler: image

View attachment 273436

Ma'am, there is a gross lack of pastel pinks, blues, and whites in your costume. I'mma have ta report you for being a noob, and not playing a meta relevant character.

 

[Mamboo07]

So what you're saying is that the TRUE way to play competitive Smash is like this?
View attachment 273436

I knew it, Ganondorf is allergic to rabbits because the Master Sword is made of bunnies.