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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Cutie Gwen

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I see people saying Byleth and ARMS didn't leak because Nintendo's more secretive of their own characters and I must say, I wasn't aware Joker was a Nintendo character.
Also we only expected DQ content before Hero's reveal due to Nintendo ****ing up and leaving "IT'S A DRAGON QUEST CHARACTER" in the files and Nintendo ****ing up again by leaking the SNK trademark themselves
 

Shroob

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I see people saying Byleth and ARMS didn't leak because Nintendo's more secretive of their own characters and I must say, I wasn't aware Joker was a Nintendo character.
Also we only expected DQ content before Hero's reveal due to Nintendo ****ing up and leaving "IT'S A DRAGON QUEST CHARACTER" in the files and Nintendo ****ing up again by leaking the SNK trademark themselves
Still wonder what the hell transpired for Banjo to leak tho.
 

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I guess I'll give this a try.

1. Arms character(s)
2. Shantae (Shantae Series) (Spirit Promotion)
3. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
4. Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
5. Crash (Crash Bandicoot)
6. Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear)
7. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
8. Dante (Devil May Cry)
9. Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes)
10. Master Chief (Halo)
11. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
12. Saber (Fate Series)
13. Reimu Hakurei (Touhou)
14. Doom Slayer (DOOM)
15. Ragna (Blazblue)
16. Scorpion (Mortal Kombat)
17. Spyro (Spyro the Dragon)
 

Shroob

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That's almost a year gap between someone overhearing that and someone hinting Banjo.
Yeah, that's what I meant.

I def think that Banjo's rights were secured at E32018 but, the big question is what was the spearhead that caused him to be leaked in the first place? Something had to have happened behind the scenes.
 

Jomosensual

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Is it because of him being bland or boring?
I think it's part this and part because a lot of the Nintendo fans I've interacted for Smash related stuff have something of a hipster(this isn't the right word but I'm tired and can't think of the correct one and it's close enough) view of who should get in and who shouldn't. No, it can't be the star of a game or someone from a huge franchise because (insert reason), it has to be someone from one game 25 years ago instead or the extra side character that I like, even though the star makes a lot of sesne! And yes, I get that some main characters are boring and that sometimes there's emotional attachment to a more minor character, I'm not trying to say this is a completely black and white type of deal, but it feels like there's been a good deal of pushback towards main characters lately and I'm not sure why else that is. And then since the smash community is well, what it is, people take personal offense to when it's not their favorite or most wanted basically every time someone else gets revealed and a **** storm happens.

Like really, when you leave this bubble it's surprising how many characters people clamor for a lot of others have either never heard of or barely know, even a lot of the top requested characters for Smash. I had 0 clue who Banjo or Geno were before coming into the bubble and I'm not sure I've ever seen their names mentioned more than twice, but if you're in here(meaning,once again, the smash bubble) you'd think both are all time gaming icons.

I've legit seen people argue wild **** because of it. Ran across someone from a different site arguing that Shantae would create more buzz for Smash than Lara Croft. I remember an example in here once that people were trying to argue that nobody would know who Pac-Man is back in Smash 4 speculation. Like, what? This is why I'm really big into people who can playing games on different consoles or at least looking into them(a lets play, game reviews, etc) because it feels like we got a lot of people so deep into the bubble that KOS MOS suddenly became a gaming icon to some last year when she was the hot topic of all the leaks, and that's just no. There's a lot more I can bring up here too but I don't want to make people feel that I'm flaming their characters or anything so I'll drop it now.

And I just realized that this went way off topic but I'll leave it as is because I'm tired.
They made the deal during E3, it isn't surprising that people overheard it.
I mean, sort of, but it's not like they negotiated it on live mics or something. Banjo was always going to be heavily rumored based on his popularity in the fanbase and Microsoft and Nintendo getting really close lately and even though the never ending Banjo vs Steve wars might have made it confusing nobody actually seems like they knew any solid info until about 2 days before.
 

Hadokeyblade

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....? Eh?

That doesn't make much sense since the trailer was shown at E3, they didn't bang out an entire trailer + all the gameplay that we saw in a few days.
I meant 2018 E3, not 2019 E3.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

I def think that Banjo's rights were secured at E32018 but, the big question is what was the spearhead that caused him to be leaked in the first place? Something had to have happened behind the scenes.
I may be misremembering but wasn't he leaked alongside Hero, who was apparently done but was held off for dlc?

Maybe Banjo's model was done and the insider saw him T posing on a PC screen.
 

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I meant 2018 E3, not 2019 E3.


I may be misremembering but wasn't he leaked alongside Hero, who was apparently done but was held off for dlc?

Maybe Banjo's model was done and the insider saw him T posing on a PC screen.
Banjo was teased by an insider over at ResetEra like a week before the reveal.
 

Shroob

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I meant 2018 E3, not 2019 E3.


I may be misremembering but wasn't he leaked alongside Hero, who was apparently done but was held off for dlc?

Maybe Banjo's model was done and the insider saw him T posing on a PC screen.
No, we only knew Joker and Hero.


Joker because, duh

And Hero due to "Brave". We knew nothing else besides that.
 

Jomosensual

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Banjo was teased by an insider over at ResetEra like a week before the reveal.
That was more like 2 days at most before. The only leak that got way out of control was Hero(not sure what happened there other than the code name which wasn't enough to have him be obvious before the game even came out), and even then some of the more important details were wrong.

That's also why I didn't believe the Hayabusa got moved rumors. Because like, there's no way you move him and are just ok with a DQ rep getting close to Ken tiers of telegraphed for like 8 months even with Square being how they are.
 
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PLATINUM7

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That was more like 2 days at most before. The only leak that got way out of control was Hero(not sure what happened there other than the code name which wasn't enough to have him be obvious before the game even came out), and even then some of the more important details were wrong.

That's also why I didn't believe the Hayabusa got moved rumors. Because like, there's no way you move him and are just ok with a DQ rep getting close to Ken tiers of telegraphed for like 8 months even with Square being how they are.
Shinobi made the tease on June 4th and BK were revealed June 11th.

That's 1 week.
 

Shroob

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That was more like 2 days at most before. The only leak that got way out of control was Hero(not sure what happened there other than the code name which wasn't enough to have him be obvious before the game even came out), and even then some of the more important details were wrong.

That's also why I didn't believe the Hayabusa got moved rumors. Because like, there's no way you move him and are just ok with a DQ rep getting close to Ken tiers of telegraphed for like 8 months even with Square being how they are.
It 100% was obvious.

The codename was Brave. Anyone who knows anything about Dragon Quest knows that the Hero's class in those games is called Yuusha, which is directly translated as Brave.

We had multiple people in the industry talk about Dragon Quest(Probably due to 11s being a thing), and several of which referring to the Hero as "The Brave!"


Even right now, if you go to the Japanese website and translate Hero's name into English, it translates into Brave.



It was VERY obvious it was Dragon Quest.
 
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PLATINUM7

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I love how we're having the same Brave argument now that we were having back when it was first datamined.
 

Hadokeyblade

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No, we only knew Joker and Hero.


Joker because, duh

And Hero due to "Brave". We knew nothing else besides that.
I was just talking about how we knew about Dragon quest before the game even came out, since insiders said there would be four more characters, Ken, incineroar, a Microsoft character and a Square enix character.

I remember that being a thing that was thrown around before the final prerelease direct.
 

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lol, no. Brave was not 100% obvious. That's pure hindsight. We had no real clue what it means and only one person ever leaked Hero before that. Leakers guessed it was a name for Yuusha specifically, which just like Packun Plant, was essentially the Japanese name for the character. The reason people kept saying it was that because they thought the Leakers knew something(when only like one or two even knew of Hero to begin with, and one came out well after Verge, and didn't get the details right either), but those Leakers were completely misinterpreted. All they said was "I think it might be Hero because Brave is one way to spell Yuusha", and even then, they had it wrong, only guessing Erdrick alone. People came to a completely incorrect conclusion, that it was a codename, instead of just a translation instead.

We took a guess and guessed right(well, not really. The only real consensus was that it Erdrick. Being the general class was not a massive guess in comparison). We had some idea it related to Hero only cause of Verge directly leaking it to us(and he didn't leak Hero, but a specific character, and he didn't appear to know it was 4 characters in one either, so his leak had many come to an incorrect conclusion too). Which is what gave the idea actual credibility. 100% is a massive stretch to begin with. We required actual evidence via leakers to make it clear. The word Brave is extremely vague on its own. It was no real difference from Jack on its own.
 
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Shroob

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lol, no. Brave was not 100% obvious. That's pure hindsight. We had no real clue what it means and only one person ever leaked Hero before that. Leakers guessed it was a name for Yuusha specifically, which just like Packun Plant, was essentially the Japanese name for the character. The reason people kept saying it was that because they thought the Leakers knew something(when only like one or two even knew of Hero to begin with, and one came out well after Verge, and didn't get the details right either), but those Leakers were completely misinterpreted. All they said was "I think it might be Hero because Brave is one way to spell Yuusha", and even then, they had it wrong, only guessing Erdrick alone. People came to a completely incorrect conclusion, that it was a codename, instead of just a translation instead.

We took a guess and guessed right. We had some idea it related to Hero only cause of Verge directly leaking it to us(and he didn't leak Hero, but a specific character, and he didn't appear to know it was 4 characters in one either, so his leak had many come to an incorrect conclusion too). Which is what gave the idea actual credibility. 100% is a massive stretch to begin with. We required actual evidence via leakers to make it clear. The word Brave is extremely vague on its own. It was no real difference from Jack on its own.
Codenames aren't this magic password that has to be cracked, they're straightforward.


Banjo's codename is Buddy. If you looked at that, you'd instantly know at the very least "This character isn't solo", unless you believe the character was named Buddy.

Jack and Doyle(Joker and Arsene) aren't difficult to understand at all. A jack is a suite of cards, a Joker is a card. Arsene is the name of a famous fictional Thief, Doyle is the name of Sherlock Holme's author.


The only difficult one is Terry, and even then that's just Japanese wordplay like Brave/Yuusha.


"テリー・ボガード (Terry Bogard in Japanese)
Terī Bogādo
Bogādo Terī
dorī
Dolly (ドリー)
テリー・ボガード"



You can say we couldn't 100% say it was Hero for certain sure, but there was much more supporting it was The Hero than not, unless you were one of those weirdos who took the stance of "WHAT IF IT MEANS THE CHARACTER IS BRAVE?!"
 
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Cutie Gwen

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lol, no. Brave was not 100% obvious. That's pure hindsight. We had no real clue what it means and only one person ever leaked Hero before that. Leakers guessed it was a name for Yuusha specifically, which just like Packun Plant, was essentially the Japanese name for the character. The reason people kept saying it was that because they thought the Leakers knew something(when only like one or two even knew of Hero to begin with, and one came out well after Verge, and didn't get the details right either), but those Leakers were completely misinterpreted. All they said was "I think it might be Hero because Brave is one way to spell Yuusha", and even then, they had it wrong, only guessing Erdrick alone. People came to a completely incorrect conclusion, that it was a codename, instead of just a translation instead.

We took a guess and guessed right(well, not really. The only real consensus was that it Erdrick. Being the general class was not a massive guess in comparison). We had some idea it related to Hero only cause of Verge directly leaking it to us(and he didn't leak Hero, but a specific character, and he didn't appear to know it was 4 characters in one either, so his leak had many come to an incorrect conclusion too). Which is what gave the idea actual credibility. 100% is a massive stretch to begin with. We required actual evidence via leakers to make it clear. The word Brave is extremely vague on its own. It was no real difference from Jack on its own.
The word Brave is so vague which is why it was impossible to realize it meant the character most associated with the word Brave, thank you, Very Cool and Beeg Brain
 

Hadokeyblade

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You can say we couldn't 100% say it was Hero for certain sure, but there was much more supporting it was The Hero than not, unless you were one of those weirdos who took the stance of "WHAT IF IT MEANS THE CHARACTER IS BRAVE?!"
They were technically right, to be a hero you have to be a brave individual.
 

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Codenames aren't this magic password that has to be cracked, they're straightforward.


Banjo's codename is Buddy. If you looked at that, you'd instantly know at the very least "This character isn't solo", unless you believe the character was named Buddy.

Jack and Doyle(Joker and Arsene) aren't difficult to understand at all. A jack is a suite of cards, a Joker is a card. Arsene is the name of a famous fictional Thief, Doyle is the name of Sherlock Holme's author.


The only difficult one is Terry, and even then that's just Japanese wordplay like Brave/Yuusha.


"テリー・ボガード (Terry Bogard in Japanese)
Terī Bogādo
Bogādo Terī
dorī
Dolly (ドリー)
テリー・ボガード"



You can say we couldn't 100% say it was Hero for certain sure, but there was much more supporting it was The Hero than not, unless you were one of those weirdos who took the stance of "WHAT IF IT MEANS THE CHARACTER IS BRAVE?!"
But what if Dolly refers to the train dolly from Terry's stage in Fatal Fury?

That's the real codename argument.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Codenames aren't this magic password that has to be cracked, they're straightforward.


Banjo's codename is Buddy. If you looked at that, you'd instantly know at the very least "This character isn't solo", unless you believe the character was named Buddy.

Jack and Doyle(Joker and Arsene) aren't difficult to understand at all. A jack is a suite of cards, a Joker is a card. Arsene is the name of a famous fictional Thief, Doyle is the name of Sherlock Holme's author.
But at the same time they're also quite vague.

Buddy could mean a duo or something but it could also mean that the character plays the role of "the heart", or is known for being the friend of another notable character.

Jack is a card value sure, but without context it's just a name, and with the extra context of Doyle, we would've been thrown way off if we had known the code names.

EDIT: Dolly would most certainly have been taken literally, and have the Geno fans in a tizzy.

Likewise, Brave could have been Yuusha, but it also could have been a brave character, which narrows it down to everyone that isn't a specifically timid character.
 
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TheCJBrine

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My 17 characters (after ARMS) featuring cheesy intro lines:

1. Steve gets crafty!
2. Geno grants a wish!
3. Skull Kid stops the clock!
4. Midna wolfs up! (couldn’t think of a good line)
5. Porky means business!
6. Gengar sneaks through the shadows!
7. Chibi-Robo cleans up the battlefield!
8. Toad proves his strength!
9. Waluigi makes it into battle?!
10. Tom Nook rings the bell!
11. Bandana Dee spears it through!
12. Isaac psynergizes up!
13. Bomberman blasts through!
14. Master Chief joins the fight! (idk about the line)
15. Doomguy rips it up!
16. Crash is spinning to win!
17. Tails powers up! (had it as Tails before posting, but then made it “Slime draws nearer!” after messing up the “only one spirit” rule in the second part and my brain went dumb and removed Tails from here too. I would also like Slime, though)

Ignoring ATs + only one spirit:

1. Steve joined the brawl!
2. Geno gets this show on the road!
3. Porky gets spankety!
4. Falinks marches to victory!
5. Phoenix Wright makes a case!
6. Master Chief (still idk about the line)
7. Doomguy tears in!
8. Crash bashes in!
9. Ryu Hayabusa...yeah idk! (drops in? idk he’s a ninja)
10. 2B is to be!
11. Creeper blasts on in!
12. Papyrus is ready for the spaghetti!
13. Freddy joins the party!
14. Quote...idk!
15. Spyro toasts it up!
16. Heavy brought his gun!
17. Conker swears not to swear!
 
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Shroob

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But at the same time they're also quite vague.

Buddy could mean a duo or something but it could also mean that the character plays the role of "the heart", or is known for being the friend of another notable character.

Jack is a card value sure, but without context it's just a name, and with the extra context of Doyle, we would've been thrown way off if we had known the code names.

EDIT: Dolly would most certainly have been taken literally, and had the Geno fans in a tizzy.

Likewise, Brave could have been Yuusha, but it also could have been a brave character, which narrows it down to everyone that isn't a specifically timid character.
But at the same time they're also quite vague.

Buddy could mean a duo or something but it could also mean that the character plays the role of "the heart", or is known for being the friend of another notable character.

Jack is a card value sure, but without context it's just a name, and with the extra context of Doyle, we would've been thrown way off if we had known the code names.

EDIT: Dolly would most certainly have been taken literally, and had the Geno fans in a tizzy.

Likewise, Brave could have been Yuusha, but it also could have been a brave character, which narrows it down to everyone that isn't a specifically timid character.
Sure, they could have, but in hindsight, it's very obvious they aren't, like, at all. Aside from Terry's being funny wordplay, they're pretty cut and dry in their meaning.


I forgot to add one but Byleth's is "Master". which makes a lot of sense since "Master" would probably be said as "Sensei" in Japanese, and most people recognize Sensei as meaning Teacher.
 

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Codenames aren't this magic password that has to be cracked, they're straightforward.
Just like Jack? I explained later, but.

Banjo's codename is Buddy. If you looked at that, you'd instantly know at the very least "This character isn't solo", unless you believe the character was named Buddy.
Using hindsight examples doesn't really help. I wouldn't call that straightforward other than a duo at best. Other duos exist. So again, this is purely hindsight.

Jack and Doyle(Joker and Arsene) aren't difficult to understand at all. A jack is a suite of cards, a Joker is a card. Arsene is the name of a famous fictional Thief, Doyle is the name of Sherlock Holme's author.
Except for the fact nobody figured out how Jack tied to it. Jack could be Jack of All Trades, Suite of Cards, or Jack Frost(less likely the last one). Doyle is closer, but nobody figured it out till it was out. So no, they aren't as straightforward as you're remotely saying.

The only difficult one is Terry, and even then that's just Japanese wordplay like Brave/Yuusha.
I'll always call Brave something not terribly obvious. Again, decent guess we had with a leak slightly supporting it, but not enough details to even get it right. The only time we were right was the Hero Class in particular. But the actual guess was, that was actually treated as the only realistic option "Hero Class, therefore Erdrick". The fact we came to the wrong conclusion makes the "obvious" remark blatantly wrong. If we had come to the right conclusion, it would make more sense.

"テリー・ボガード (Terry Bogard in Japanese)
Terī Bogādo
Bogādo Terī
dorī
Dolly (ドリー)
テリー・ボガード"

Terry nor Banjo's leaked, so that's meaningless at this point.

You can say we couldn't 100% say it was Hero for certain sure, but there was much more supporting it was The Hero than not, unless you were one of those weirdos who took the stance of "WHAT IF IT MEANS THE CHARACTER IS BRAVE?!"
There wasn't really actually anything supporting it beyond a couple of leakers, and the key term is "supporting", not a bunch of leakers taking a guess. Again, it was purely a guess it might relate to it. Brave would've been tied to anyone where Bravery matters. Yuusha was entirely a guess.

So no, definitely not 100% like you're claiming. Considering we did not remotely know why Jack is named that way(there's 3 possibilities. There's zero confirmation of why it's obvious either. Buddies actually is obvious in context. Jack is not with 3 logical meanings to tie him to Joker within the series).

Honestly, almost every name is extremely vague(Packun Flower aside), and is meant to be. Terry is the only one who isn't entirely vague, but even then, people can get that wrong. Geno would've been a logical guess. It was obvious in hindsight that Brave clearly was a name for the Class... and also the name of the character incidentally.

Hero's codename was obvious in hindsight, but was a decent guess beforehand lightly supported by leaks.
 

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Just like Jack? I explained later, but.


Using hindsight examples doesn't really help. I wouldn't call that straightforward other than a duo at best. Other duos exist. So again, this is purely hindsight.


Except for the fact nobody figured out how Jack tied to it. Jack could be Jack of All Trades, Suite of Cards, or Jack Frost(less likely the last one). Doyle is closer, but nobody figured it out till it was out. So no, they aren't as straightforward as you're remotely saying.


I'll always call Brave something not terribly obvious. Again, decent guess we had with a leak slightly supporting it, but not enough details to even get it right. The only time we were right was the Hero Class in particular. But the actual guess was, that was actually treated as the only realistic option "Hero Class, therefore Erdrick". The fact we came to the wrong conclusion makes the "obvious" remark blatantly wrong. If we had come to the right conclusion, it would make more sense.


Terry nor Banjo's leaked, so that's meaningless at this point.


There wasn't really actually anything supporting it beyond a couple of leakers, and the key term is "supporting", not a bunch of leakers taking a guess. Again, it was purely a guess it might relate to it. Brave would've been tied to anyone where Bravery matters. Yuusha was entirely a guess.

So no, definitely not 100% like you're claiming. Considering we did not remotely know why Jack is named that way(there's 3 possibilities. There's zero confirmation of why it's obvious either. Buddies actually is obvious in context. Jack is not with 3 logical meanings to tie him to Joker within the series).

Honestly, almost every name is extremely vague(Packun Flower aside), and is meant to be. Terry is the only one who isn't entirely vague, but even then, people can get that wrong. Geno would've been a logical guess. It was obvious in hindsight that Brave clearly was a name for the Class... and also the name of the character incidentally.

Hero's codename was obvious in hindsight, but was a decent guess beforehand lightly supported by leaks.
"Nobody figured it out til it was out"


Yeah because we literally knew Joker was coming the literal day the game came out. You're trying to say "You can't use hindsight!", but you're literally pointing out something that was a big "Yeah no ****". The character after Piranha Plant that started with J was obviously Joker.
 

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No, we only knew Joker and Hero.


Joker because, duh

And Hero due to "Brave". We knew nothing else besides that.
Actually there were rumors of Hero going around months before his reveal.

Even the fact that he was multiple heroes (just not which ones).

It just didn't go public.
 

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Sure, they could have, but in hindsight, it's very obvious they aren't, like, at all.
And that's the issue with your argument. These codenames make total sense in hindsight, but that's not something we had before the release of the characters so we could never say for certain what the codenames meant.

You're trying to say "You can't use hindsight!", but you're literally pointing out something that was a big "Yeah no ****". The character after Piranha Plant that started with J was obviously Joker.
If I told you (and was 100% correct) that the fighter of Challenger Pack 7's name started with 'S' would you be able to figure out who that is before reveal?
 

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Actually there were rumors of Hero going around months before his reveal.

Even the fact that he was multiple heroes (just not which ones).

It just didn't go public.
I knew of the former, though I didn't know the latter, interesting, though, Verg did say he had heard both 11 and Erdrick.
 

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But at the same time they're also quite vague.

Buddy could mean a duo or something but it could also mean that the character plays the role of "the heart", or is known for being the friend of another notable character.

Jack is a card value sure, but without context it's just a name, and with the extra context of Doyle, we would've been thrown way off if we had known the code names.

EDIT: Dolly would most certainly have been taken literally, and have the Geno fans in a tizzy.

Likewise, Brave could have been Yuusha, but it also could have been a brave character, which narrows it down to everyone that isn't a specifically timid character.
To be fair people didn't seem to find Doyle until Joker came out, we did find files for Jane though, which may be the most infamous mystery Ultimate has. People saw the stats reflected a very agile character and people thought Jack meant either the playing card or Jack Frost, so we gravitated towards the character we already knew was coming. Brave was unannounced but as soon as someone pointed out Brave can translate into Yuusha, most people realized that no other character had a bigger tie to the term Brave. After that, they got rid of the codenames cause they realized they ****ed up and people understood the codename
 

Shroob

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And that's the issue with your argument. These codenames make total sense in hindsight, but that's not something we had before the release of the characters so we could never say for certain what the codenames meant.


If I told you (and was 100% correct) that the fighter of Challenger Pack 7's name started with 'S' would you be able to figure out who that is before reveal?
This argument doesn't work at all, because we knew Joker was coming the day of Smash came out, while the game wasn't datamined until late December/Early January. It was obvious that "Jack" was going to be Joker because Joker was the next character after Piranha Plant, and had already been shown off.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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"Nobody figured it out til it was out"
That's the point. You're only using hindsight as an argument. Especially as you're only taking one version of Jack as possible, when there's 3 literal meanings that tie Jack to Joker within proper context.

Yeah because we literally knew Joker was coming the literal day the game came out. You're trying to say "You can't use hindsight!", but you're literally pointing out something that was a big "Yeah no ****". The character after Piranha Plant that started with J was obviously Joker.
You're missing the point. Nobody knew it was for sure Hero and we only guessed it based upon some leaks. You're making it sound like it was massive supporting evidence. It wasn't. We had a decent reason to believe Brave tied to Hero, but that was it. That was the popular guess, and not even Hero, but Erdrick.

Your argument doesn't make sense. "It's obvious this was this in hindsight" is a pointless argument to make. You need to remove hindsight and then look at why people didn't have one guess only for it to mean much. Obviously in hindsight it makes sense. What kind of argument is that but a pointless one? Especially when you're trying to use an example like Jack that is not actually obvious how it tied in. Even with Doyle leaked, they did not remotely figured out Jack meant Joker. It made sense only one he released, but nobody could figure it out. Brave was exactly the same amount of vagueness. A very simplistic description of a character trait. The only thing clear is that it should be actually important to he character. That's why mostly the guesses were Hero(least guessed one in general), Erdrick, Luminary, and certain other Heroes, Agumon, and the only joke answer, Braviary. The rarest and worst guess was "they happen to be a protagonist", which made no sense cause that would not be an important character trait.

Every single codename is important too. We looked through Jack later on to help determine Brave, but with 3 possible answers(Card Suit, Jack Frost, and Jack of all Trades), it was never clear how it directly applied to the character. Doyle himself is a different story). This is why it was hard to come to a most proper conclusion. There was no outright clear details to go off of. Jack was definitely not a straight reference here. You need to know which of three is true, and we actually don't know what it means in this case. I think Card Suit is most likely, and Jack Frost is least likely, but it could still be any of the three regardless. Or it could be multiple references at once.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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This argument doesn't work at all, because we knew Joker was coming the day of Smash came out, while the game wasn't datamined until late December/Early January. It was obvious that "Jack" was going to be Joker because Joker was the next character after Piranha Plant, and had already been shown off.
Ok. I thought you were saying we predicted Joker because of one letter, which is preposterous.
 

Shroob

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That's the point. You're only using hindsight as an argument. Especially as you're only taking one version of Jack as possible, when there's 3 literal meanings that tie Jack to Joker within proper context.


You're missing the point. Nobody knew it was for sure Hero and we only guessed it based upon some leaks. You're making it sound like it was massive supporting evidence. It wasn't. We had a decent reason to believe Brave tied to Hero, but that was it. That was the popular guess, and not even Hero, but Erdrick.

Your argument doesn't make sense. "It's obvious this was this in hindsight" is a pointless argument to make. You need to remove hindsight and then look at why people didn't have one guess only for it to mean much. Obviously in hindsight it makes sense. What kind of argument is that but a pointless one? Especially when you're trying to use an example like Jack that is not actually obvious how it tied in. Even with Doyle leaked, they did not remotely figured out Jack meant Joker. It made sense only one he released, but nobody could figure it out. Brave was exactly the same amount of vagueness. A very simplistic description of a character trait. The only thing clear is that it should be actually important to he character. That's why mostly the guesses were Hero(least guessed one in general), Erdrick, Luminary, and certain other Heroes, Agumon, and the only joke answer, Braviary. The rarest and worst guess was "they happen to be a protagonist", which made no sense cause that would not be an important character trait.

Every single codename is important too. We looked through Jack later on to help determine Brave, but with 3 possible answers(Card Suit, Jack Frost, and Jack of all Trades), it was never clear how it directly applied to the character. Doyle himself is a different story). This is why it was hard to come to a most proper conclusion. There was no outright clear details to go off of. Jack was definitely not a straight reference here. You need to know which of three is true, and we actually don't know what it means in this case. I think Card Suit is most likely, and Jack Frost is least likely, but it could still be any of the three regardless. Or it could be multiple references at once.
Hey Mop?

I know I've said this before but, I have autism, so when you like... word vomit, it kinda makes me shut off. Can we... at least 'try' to summarize what can be said in like, a parahraph and not an entire story? I don't wanna sound harsh but, it's really hard to read.... all these massive posts you reply with me with without my mind just kinda turning off.
 

osby

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The word Brave is so vague which is why it was impossible to realize it meant the character most associated with the word Brave, thank you, Very Cool and Beeg Brain
Something brave instrument something.
 

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Especially when you're trying to use an example like Jack that is not actually obvious how it tied in. Even with Doyle leaked, they did not remotely figured out Jack meant Joker. It made sense only one he released, but nobody could figure it out.
Small correction: It's been said before, but thinking about it, I remember this as well. Jack was very quickly tied to Joker because he had been revealed before we even saw the codename, and we didn't find Doyle until his release.

Had we have known the codename sooner though, I doubt we'd have put two and two together before the reveal.

EDIT: Jane and the ponytail would have thrown us way off as well.
 
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Arcanir

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Actually there were rumors of Hero going around months before his reveal.

Even the fact that he was multiple heroes (just not which ones).

It just didn't go public.
Yeah, offhand I remember Tansut and Vergeban hinting at a DQ character, and Imran Khan hinted at a SE one pretty early on. It's one of the reasons why Brave was often tied to Hero since it fit in perfectly with what we were hearing at the time.
 
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