Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

i mean, i don't really think a character's background color needs to be something related to the character, as long as it just complements or contrasts well with the character
terry, for example, has red as his "main color", so to say, but he still goes well with a blue background

To be honest, it makes sense. It's quite common for games to have meaningful backgrounds. Just "looking nice" isn't always enough.

I mean, every single color is associated with a character in a character-driven game. Sakurai made sure every character was also listed by exact reveal order too. There's a lot put into these things, even if they don't honestly matter all that much. Or for that matter, is popular. A lot would love to change the Character Select Screen order outside of Echo Stacking as it's all out of place in a way. 4 did this too, and people even thought the leak was fake cause characters were in weird spots. Like Yoshi, who isn't treated as a Super Mario character right between the Super Mario characters. Albeit, he's right after the original generation and before the new generation as is, so it still fits. And then you have clones in strange spots, and then 3rd parties, then Mii Fighters, and DLC is all in order. It's a mess. Ultimate is a much more clear design(Mii Fighters are the only ones split into their own category).

 

[TechPowah]

The color definitely isn't required to come from the character's palette, but it's definitely a trend that they seem to keep
such as Terry's blue background coming from his jeans

 

[Guynamednelson]

such as Terry's blue background coming from his jeans

It could also be a reference to SNK's blue logo, since his challenger pack focuses on the company's games in general, not just Fatal Fury.

 

[Speed Weed]

i wasn't saying the colors don't or can't come from the character, either
just that it doesn't really have to have a connection to them either, as long as it just fits them in some way
it's not necessarily one or the other, these things are always more of a middle ground

 

[Michael the Spikester]

From the ARMS thread. Figured this was worth discussion.

Color Comparison:

Spoiler

 

[Speed Weed]

that could easily be one of two things
a placeholder
or
a reference to arms' main color motif instead of any particular character
so a placeholder

 

[Cutie Gwen]

From the ARMS thread. Figured this was worth discussion.

Color Comparison:

Spoiler

If colour matters in terms of who it is, then that barely shrinks the list, though it DOES mark off Spring Man, which is it Mike? Always the protag or the colouring mattering?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If colour matters in terms of who it is, then that barely shrinks the list, though it DOES mark off Spring Man, which is it Mike? Always the protag or the colouring mattering?

I was just posting this to hear your thoughts and that was worth discussion. That was all.

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

Not that I’m bandwagoning off of Mechanica or Twintelle, but a simple Google search for “arm definition” turned up this.

Pay close attention to definition 2. “Arms” in case of the statement made during the direct could easily refer to definition 2, which wouldn’t completely rule out Twintelle or Mechanica.

 

[Speed Weed]

Not that I’m bandwagoning off of Mechanica or Twintelle, but a simple Google search for “arm definition” turned up this.

View attachment 271992
Pay close attention to definition 2. “Arms” in case of the statement made during the direct could easily refer to definition 2, which wouldn’t completely rule out Twintelle or Mechanica.

...that's kind of a stretch tbh

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

...that's kind of a stretch tbh

I see what you did there.

I mean, if you think Nintendo would write “this characters arms can expand” only to exclude Twintelle and Mechanica outright, while showing them in the Direct, then I don’t know what else to tell you.

 

[Gribbo]

I wouldn't look too deep into exact wording. Remember when Ness was apparently cut from Brawl because they said he was a character "up until now"? Remember when Assist Trophies were gonna figure into All-Star Mode in Smash 4? Remember when there couldn't be a first party DLC character because all of the DLC was gonna be like Joker?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

From the ARMS thread. Figured this was worth discussion.

Color Comparison:

Spoiler

I doubt it means anything in particular but if we say it does hyptohetically it could mean a Mechanica (Yellow mecha), Ribbon Girl, Min Min (both blonde[?]), Max Brass (golden/brass accents), Lola Pop (Yellow baggy clown pants) or Biff (whole being is yellow)

 

[Speed Weed]

I see what you did there.

I mean, if you think Nintendo would write “this characters arms can expand” only to exclude Twintelle and Mechanica outright, while showing them in the Direct, then I don’t know what else to tell you.

it's not that i'm trying to count them out, it's more so that i think if mechanica and twintelle are on the table, it's not going to be because of an alternate dictionary definition
also i swear the pun was unintentional

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

That website color confirms one thing.

The next character we get...is from ARMS.

 

[kirbsmash]

The next character we get...is from ARMS.

I hope that it's Mario !

 

[GillyGrime]

The term "Cereal Mascot" is such a crap attempt at a rebuttal against the term "Anime Swordsman". Cartoony aesthetic varies far more than humanoid anime style and to suggest otherwise is dishonest.

I've no beef with Anime swordmen but to suggest that "cereal mascot" cartoony characters are as visually repetitive is tripe.

 

[Speed Weed]

The term "Cereal Mascot" is such a crap attempt at a rebuttal against the term "Anime Swordsman". Cartoony aesthetic varies far more than humanoid anime style and to suggest otherwise is dishonest.

I've no beef with Anime swordmen but to suggest that "cereal mascot" cartoony characters are as visually repetitive is tripe.

totally agree
the "no anime swordsman" people are, for a lack of a better word, "poopy"
but is there really a reason to be equally as poopy for the sake of feeling superior
how about we just stop ragging on people for their wants in general and enjoy smash, m'kay?

 

[Rangez]

From the ARMS thread. Figured this was worth discussion.

Color Comparison:

Spoiler

Ok like, can we not bring back the Color Theory like this? Can we please not?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Two weeks of May left.

Can you guys believe that?

And to think 4 more weeks until the ARMS rep and FP7 supposedly.

 

[MrElectroG64]

I know this is REALLLY late, but I finally made a moveset for what I think an ARMS fighter would play like. better late than never lol. I also firmly believe that we're getting more than one fighter in one and these five would honestly fit together quite well. They all have such minuscule personalities that there really wouldn't be anything sacrificed to put them together, other than Ninjara's teleport really.

And as usual, here's a link to the image on Flickr, since it's too hard to read large images here. You'll probably have to open the image in another tab even on there too though lol: https://www.flickr.com/photos/184893183@N07/49905375487/in/dateposted-public/

 

[GillyGrime]

totally agree
the "no anime swordsman" people are, for a lack of a better word, "poopy"
but is there really a reason to be equally as poopy for the sake of feeling superior
how about we just stop ragging on people for their wants in general and enjoy smash, m'kay?

Well said, having a preference is valid and people need to stop being so defensive.

 

[osby]

The term "Cereal Mascot" is such a crap attempt at a rebuttal against the term "Anime Swordsman". Cartoony aesthetic varies far more than humanoid anime style and to suggest otherwise is dishonest.

I've no beef with Anime swordmen but to suggest that "cereal mascot" cartoony characters are as visually repetitive is tripe.

You know, I never see people going "all cartoony characters are identical and my personal preferences should limit their amount in Smash to a minimum". It's almost always people who hate "anime human" characters who try to pass their likes as the objectively superior design philosophy that Smash should strive for.

Prefer any style you want but "cereal mascot" complaints aren't a simple "no u" rebuttal. It's fans reporting a group that ignores any nuance in character design for the sake of writing off a large group of fighters based on superficial similarities. I'll stop using "cereal mascot" sarcastically when people stop pretending they can't distinguish characters unless they are anthro bubbleheads.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Honestly hearing stuff like "Anime Swordsman", "Cereal Mascot", "too Niche", "Literal Who" etc etc can basically amount to the person saying "I don't like this character so I'll use different words to sound ignorant."

That's pretty much how it is here.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Good characters come in all sorts of shapes and sizes.

Though, I die inside any time somebody says they can’t differentiate Marth and Ike. Like, if you can’t do that then major oof right there pal.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly hearing stuff like "Anime Swordsman", "Cereal Mascot", "too Niche", "Literal Who" etc etc can basically amount to the person saying "I don't like this character so I'll use different words to sound ignorant."

That's pretty much how it is here.

The last two aren't really an equal thing. They actually are about how well they could sell due to recognizability. The first two are meant to insult the characters by acting like they're some kind of thing they're not.

They're poor points, but the thing is, niche and not being known at all isn't entirely as poor. At least not always. With DLC, you're going to want characters who have some appeal to parts of the world. If almost nobody recognizes the character, it's not really good business for DLC. You have to sell them. Niche is a much lesser issue overall, since those characters can easily get in as DLC because they still have a lot of worldwide appeal, just a bit smaller than some. For instance, Joker compared to MegaMan is a niche choice. There's a huge difference in recognizability there. Doesn't really mean that it's a problem to sell that character.

So how well they're known actually is important. Though it's clearly exaggerated in arguments too, that they have to be as massive as freaking MegaMan, when that's clearly not the case. And he's like second tier among gaming icons overall. (Sonic and Pac-Man are the only ones currently in Smash right up there with Mario for massive iconicness).

 

[Speed Weed]

i just feel like all this is unnecessary
why do we need to be constantly at each other's thoats in an incredibly long and annoying **** measuring contest of just "oh we're better than you, oh our character is more deserving as if the deserving argument was valid..."
like
why do we need to generalize groups of people
why do we need to act superior to groups of people
why do we need to paint groups of people in a negative light
why do we need to demonize groups of people
all for wanting characters in the funny mario pikachu fighting game

 

[kirbsmash]

all for wanting characters in the funny mario pikachu fighting game

Welcome to SB. You get used to it. but moving on, I'm just waiting for June.

 

[Speed Weed]

Welcome to SB. You get used to it. but moving on, I'm just waiting for June.

oh i'm used to it, i've actually been lurking here for a long time

 

[BernkastelWitch]

The last two aren't really an equal thing. They actually are about how well they could sell due to recognizability. The first two are meant to insult the characters by acting like they're some kind of thing they're not.

They're poor points, but the thing is, niche and not being known at all isn't entirely as poor. At least not always. With DLC, you're going to want characters who have some appeal to parts of the world. If almost nobody recognizes the character, it's not really good business for DLC. You have to sell them. Niche is a much lesser issue overall, since those characters can easily get in as DLC because they still have a lot of worldwide appeal, just a bit smaller than some. For instance, Joker compared to MegaMan is a niche choice. There's a huge difference in recognizability there. Doesn't really mean that it's a problem to sell that character.

So how well they're known actually is important. Though it's clearly exaggerated in arguments too, that they have to be as massive as freaking MegaMan, when that's clearly not the case. And he's like second tier among gaming icons overall. (Sonic and Pac-Man are the only ones currently in Smash right up there with Mario for massive iconicness).

I've seen many people abuse the terms Niche and Literal Who to the point if a character isn't part of a very small subsection of characters, those would be spammed a lot. And a lot of people, at least in certain sites like Gamefaqs and even Youtube have bene misusing it very bad to the point it may lose its meaning.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I've seen many people abuse the terms Niche and Literal Who to the point if a character isn't part of a very small subsection of characters, those would be spammed a lot. And a lot of people, at least in certain sites like Gamefaqs and even Youtube have bene misusing it very bad to the point it may lose its meaning.

Right, but they still are a different kind of meaning. They aren't descriptions of an archtype or character design.

Even when starting to be misused, it's a different situation.

Like I said, despite the misuse, one is they don't think they'd have a chance because selling is harder for characters that people barely recognize. The other is "too much of this kind of character" while outright insulting their character design and/or archtype.

They're both problems, just one type of argument isn't really about insulting. And "not known enough" isn't entirely a bad argument either. It can be, but not always.

 

[pupNapoleon]

So how well they're known actually is important. Though it's clearly exaggerated in arguments too, that they have to be as massive as freaking MegaMan, when that's clearly not the case. And he's like second tier among gaming icons overall. (Sonic and Pac-Man are the only ones currently in Smash right up there with Mario for massive iconicness).

What about Pikachu?
Pikachu is in the Macy's Day Parade.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What about Pikachu?
Pikachu is in the Macy's Day Parade.

Considering he's not the company mascot? I wouldn't put him on the same level. Just slightly below Mario at this point. But absolutely up there. Like A vs A+ levels.

 

[VGPhaze]

- Let people know ahead of time it was an Arms rep to minimize backlash when it is not a third party (which is a big reason Byleth was disliked)
- Capitalize on the Arms free trial and give people a reason to go into the game and learn about the other characters
- Stall for time due to an actual trailer not being ready and needing to keep the Smash hype going

Couldnt it be all of those reasons AND it not be Spring Man?

And yes your probably right that the leak wasn’t intentional. It just wouldn’t surprise me if it was, even if it wasn’t from Japan. It just seemed very confinement imo and I think is a possibility, even if it’s most likely not true.

 

[Spongeboob]

Honestly hearing stuff like "Anime Swordsman", "Cereal Mascot", "too Niche", "Literal Who" etc etc can basically amount to the person saying "I don't like this character so I'll use different words to sound ignorant."

That's pretty much how it is here.

While I agree that, as arguments, they're not very logically sound and rather annoying, I think there were some funny ones such as "hat Ken" and "green Samus".

From the ARMS thread. Figured this was worth discussion.

Color Comparison:

Spoiler

being more of a gold/brass color

brass

Bros...

Spoiler: Do you know what this means?

 

[VGPhaze]

I agree that the generalizing character “types” into categories is silly.
Want you who want, no need to attempt to insult others’ opinions. It’s pointless and you won’t change their minds with negativity anyway.
Why does changing anyone’s mind in this case even matter? No one has anything to prove here.
Speculating is fun and helps ease the long wait.

That being said, here’s the 5 characters I’m currrently hoping for in no particular order:

- Rayman
- Geno
- Doom Slayer
- Crash
- Rex and Pyra

I don’t think we’re gonna get Rayman or Doom Slayer. I think we’re gonna get a Pokemon and a character almost no one will predict, ala Terry. The others I think have a shot but are by no means shoe-ins.

 

[CureParfait]

From the ARMS thread. Figured this was worth discussion.

Color Comparison:

Spoiler

I don't think this indicates the ARMS fighter is going to have yellow on them. I think they picked that colour because of the ARMS logo.

 

[VGPhaze]

I don't think this indicates the ARMS fighter is going to have yellow on them. I think they picked that colour because of the ARMS logo.

Isn’t the point of that post that the two colors don’t exactly match? If it’s supposed to be the arms logo why wouldn’t they use the exact color?

for the record I don’t think the colors mean anything at all and are just what whoever designs the website think look good. But if they do mean something - those are two different yellows.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Good characters come in all sorts of shapes and sizes.

Though, I die inside any time somebody says they can’t differentiate Marth and Ike. Like, if you can’t do that then major oof right there pal.

I think for the most part people could tell those two apart. They've got different body types for sure, particularly older Ike.

During a four player+ Smash game in Ultimate with Ike, Lucina, Marth and Chrom all flying around with particle smoke pouring out every orifice though, I can see why that could get visually confusing in the heat of battle as the visual feedback is sometimes just a mess of capes, blades, and blue hair for a few precious seconds.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think for the most part people could tell those two apart. They've got different body types for sure, particularly older Ike.

During a four player+ Smash game in Ultimate with Ike, Lucina, Marth and Chrom all flying around with particle smoke pouring out every orifice though, I can see why that could get visually confusing in the heat of battle as the visual feedback is sometimes just a mess of capes, blades, and blue hair for a few precious seconds.

See, I would think that too. But there have been folks that have come to this thread who can’t tell people apart if they have blue hair.

It’s about as superficial as saying one can’t figure out the different between Mario, Luigi, and Wario because they all have a mustache and overalls.