Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[TheCJBrine]

tfw you realize Paper Mario TTYD started the paper gimmick with its overworld abilities and everyone loved them then

To be fair, the fact that the characters and their world was made of paper wasn’t referenced much outside of overworld moves and maybe a few jokes or something. Nowadays the paper aspect seems to be a driving point behind some mechanics and the villains/a few other characters. At least TOK seems to be closer to the first two games in its formula; haven’t played CS tbh but I think SS bored me early on. I like the new art style though I would also love a new Paper Mario with the original cartoony-paper-world style.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

tfw you realize Paper Mario TTYD started the paper gimmick with its overworld abilities and everyone loved them then

That's cause the paper theme was used moderately and not shoved in your face every 5 seconds.

 

[Ben Holt]

Well, according to all the leaks that reported on a new Paper Mario game this year, it's supposedly going to be a return to form, so perhaps we should be cautiously optimistic.

 

[GoodGrief741]

My take on The Origami King? Looks kinda cool! I'm keeping my eye on this one. I really dig the combat from what we've seen, I hope the focus on time and positioning it is more of an accessible take on Chrono Trigger's battle system than just a gimmick. The settings so far look pretty varied and vast, which is good, to me the strength of Mario RPGs lies in feeling like you're traversing a vast yet continuous world rather than picking locations out of a map. The plot is neat, Bowser not being the villain is always a plus and that creepy scene with Origami Peach does appear to indicate that the game is willing to be serious and have actual stakes. I do sincerely hope that we don't get another game where all the NPCs are generic Toads and Shy Guys but that seems like a lost cause.

But of course I have to mention partners. That's a pretty make or break deal. To me, partners are such an integral part of Paper Mario's DNA that I'm still surprised they took it out. At this point I'm so desperate to like a new Paper Mario that I'll take generic partners if they at least have unique personalities. I can already tell that we'll get a helper, that yellow thing, and unless they do something interesting with it I think it's going to be a waste, it appears we're already traveling with Bowser and the lost potential to have him be your reluctant helper is too big.

Anyway, hopes are high, but let's see how this one goes. If this is a return to form, then great. If they're still treating Paper Mario as baby's first RPG on the sixth entry, then I don't know how the series can even continue.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The "paper mechanics" did not come at the cost of the partners/badge system either. The badge system was removed from SPM in the first place.

That's not how things went down. What happened is Miyamoto actually told them they shouldn't redo TTYD and make it its own thing. He also told them they should use the normal species and not original characters. The card system was an entirely unique idea, and something they had an idea for in the first place. But they're separated factors. The lack of story is entirely on the development for the poll they put on Club Nintendo "Do you like story in Mario?" without specifying the RPG's.

It's a lot of factors, but "at the cost of something" is vastly misleading. The card system would've happened either way(as they already intended to use it), and the partners/oc's were gone due to Miyamoto loaded suggestion(cause suggestion or not, he's your boss. It was clearly forced to be different).

With not much else to give for uniqueness, taking the paper aspect further was actually pretty smart. This also separated Paper Mario as his own individual as is. Keep in mind that SS even sold better than SPM, though it's not by a massive percentage. It clearly did work. Albeit, not for everyone.

 

[TheCJBrine]

To be honest, if the paper aspect was treated the same way back then as it is today, I’d personally probably like it. Heck, to be even more honest, I actually do still like it to a degree, but it does feel very odd when the characters didn’t give a crap they were made of paper in the past, just acting like it was a normal everyday thing, and characters were defined by things other than “we can do paper-related stuffs!” I didn’t get far in SS and didn’t play CS, but that’s how it felt to me based on what I’ve seen and read, though I do like how some characters such as that Shy Guy on the train weren’t just paper-thin, and the Toads slapping Mario to death are funny.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They didn't come at the expense of memorable characters and enjoyable gameplay back then.

Well...I don't think it'd be right to blame that for the lack of originality (and at the same time, too much originality). I feel like the real culprit is the pulling back of the reigns of creative freedom with the Super Mario series, as well as the design philosophy that "If it doesn't offer any new mechanical ideas, it's not worth making".

So new characters were made only to explain how the game works, and they played around with an idea that was flawed in execution. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the series after this or a next game because they couldn't find a new direction to take the gameplay in even though all it needs is a good story and mechanics that work and there are even two tried and true choices for it (though one is highly preferred over the other).

 

[GoodGrief741]

Keep in mind that SS even sold better than SPM, though it's not by a massive percentage.

Uh no it didn't. SPM sold 2.28 million copies whereas SS sold 1.97m.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

While I'm totally down for Paper Mario making it in, I really hope he incorporates elements from his first few games and isn't just a glorified paper gimmick.

Getting Paper Mario only to do paper gimmicks is like Banjo-Kazooie getting in only to use a wrench and vehicle building gimmicks.

Sure it might make for a unique fighter, but it's not what people fell in love with and wanted them in for.

 

[slrigeigdew]

Honest to god, no badges and no partners wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. SPM didn't have either and I still loved it. Just have a good story, interesting worlds to explore and a reason to engage in battles other than coins and stickers and we're good.

 

[Ben Holt]

Speculation time:
Look out for a Paper Mario Spirit Event. If it doesn't come before Halloween, then Paper Mario MIGHT be a challenger in the Fighter's Pass.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honest to god, no badges and no partners wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. SPM didn't have either and I still loved it.

Pixles were a stand-in for partners. In fact, they are pretty much partners in everything but name.

 

[Ben Holt]

Honest to god, no badges and no partners wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. SPM didn't have either and I still loved it. Just have a good story, interesting worlds to explore and a reason to engage in battles other than coins and stickers and we're good.

I too loved Super Paper Mario, but moreso as a puzzle platformer than as a proper Paper Mario RPG.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Uh no it didn't. SPM sold 2.28 million copies whereas SS sold 1.97m.

Gah, I misread it earlier from another topic.

Nonetheless, SS sold really damn well anyway.

Well...I don't think it'd be right to blame that for the lack of originality (and at the same time, too much originality). I feel like the real culprit is the pulling back of the reigns of creative freedom with the Super Mario series, as well as the design philosophy that "If it doesn't offer any new mechanical ideas, it's not worth making".

This so much. Miyamoto just hates creative freedom with writing when it comes to Super Mario.

So new characters were made only to explain how the game works, and they played around with an idea that was flawed in execution. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the series after this or a next game because they couldn't find a new direction to take the gameplay in even though all it needs is a good story and mechanics that work and there are even two tried and true choices for it (though one is highly preferred over the other).

Pretty much. Things just don't work if you try to throw in new mechanics. This doesn't give you time to make a lot more original stuff too. But to be fair, like, there's few games can throw in new mechanics and unique characters at the same time(the Dreamcast Saga of Sonic, namely the 3D games from Adventure to 06) are the only ones to even get this done in a meaningful fashion.

 

[Cosmic77]

Pixles were a stand-in for partners. In fact, they are pretty much partners in everything but name.

Ehh...Pixels barely count as partners IMO. They talk when you first meet them and then they're quiet for the rest of the game. They basically follow you around and blend in with the background whenever you don't need them.

 

[7NATOR]

If Paper Mario gets in, he should at least use some Paper Gimmicks. he can also make use of his abilities in the first 2 games but the more unique parts about him is his Paper Body

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ehh...Pixels barely count as partners IMO. They talk when you first meet them and then they're quiet for the rest of the game. They basically follow you around and blend in with the background whenever you don't need them.

I'm pretty sure this was a criticism of the first game's partners though. I don't remember them doing much after their initial arc, and not all of them got one.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm pretty sure this was a criticism of the first game's partners though. I don't remember them doing much after their initial arc, and not all of them got one.

They still had a lot more dialogue and felt a lot more characterized. The chapters were also reasonably long, so they felt more unique than SPM's, which were fairly shallow outside of Tippy. They still took the role of Partners.

On another note, I think the Thing cards were amazing, it's just that they weren't used very well in-game. They were used to create a very shallow form of puzzle-solving and basically were your only chance against bosses. But they were also extremely well-designed cutscene attacks. I hope this game returns the cutscene attack factor, since it's totally a worthwhile item to get~

 

[slrigeigdew]

Speculation time:
Look out for a Paper Mario Spirit Event. If it doesn't come before Halloween, then Paper Mario MIGHT be a challenger in the Fighter's Pass.

Part of the reason I'm not enthusiastic about Paper Mario's chances. We've already had spirit events for other 1st parties and seen that the same character can get multiple spirits. If we get a "Paper Mario (The Origami King)" spirit it might be a wrap for the paper plumber.

Pixles were a stand-in for partners. They are pretty much partners in everything but name.

As the others have said, the pixels are barely characters let alone partners. Hell, outside of Tippi and maybe Barry they don't really add much to the story either. Which is fine since by then you already had Tippi, Peach, Bowser, and Luigi in your party.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Well...I don't think it'd be right to blame that for the lack of originality (and at the same time, too much originality). I feel like the real culprit is the pulling back of the reigns of creative freedom with the Super Mario series, as well as the design philosophy that "If it doesn't offer any new mechanical ideas, it's not worth making".

So new characters were made only to explain how the game works, and they played around with an idea that was flawed in execution. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the series after this or a next game because they couldn't find a new direction to take the gameplay in even though all it needs is a good story and mechanics that work and there are even two tried and true choices for it (though one is highly preferred over the other).

I'm not blaming it, I'm saying TTYD pulled off paper aesthetics while having those other elements people enjoyed.

Ehh...Pixels barely count as partners IMO. They talk when you first meet them and then they're quiet for the rest of the game. They basically follow you around and blend in with the background whenever you don't need them.

The partners in the first two games were close to that. Once you resolved their story they didn't have much involvement in any plot.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On another note, I think the Thing cards were amazing, it's just that they weren't used very well in-game. They were used to create a very shallow form of puzzle-solving and basically were your only chance against bosses. But they were also extremely well-designed cutscene attacks. I hope this game returns the cutscene attack factor, since it's totally a worthwhile item to get~

I agree. Drop the "have this item or die slowly and come back with it" stuff and we'd basically end up with Final Fantasy summons. And those things are awesome.

My favorite was the piggy bank one. If the things return in this capacity the piggy bank is a must.

 

[Deleted member]

Everywhere I go on the internet I see people being divided about the new Paper Mario.

Meanwhile I'm here thinking about how much I want to play Sakura Wars on PS4 while listening to the main theme walking around the house similarly to this:

Lol.

 

[Cosmic77]

This Thing card still makes me uncomfortable.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This Thing card still makes me uncomfortable.

I love how Mario's initially like "what the heck!?!", then he gets into it.

I personally find it hilarious, and it makes me wonder how they weren't allowed to make OCs but they were allowed to add such a blatant innuendo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I love how Mario's initially like "what the heck!?!", then he gets into it.

I personally find it hilarious, and it makes me wonder how they weren't allowed to make OCs but they were allowed to make such a blatant innuendo.

Cause Things aren't inherently characters. They're just objects. So they "don't count". The few characters shown up were already established ones. Even the Piggy Bank is still an object for all intents and purposes.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

but they were allowed to add such a blatant innuendo.

I don't know what you're talking about.

That's just how a plunger works!

Gyrating is how plungers work and whenever you use them, porno music plays.

That's just how a plunger works!

 

[ZelDan]

While Origami King maybe won't be entirely like Sticker Star or Color Splash, it still has enough of that Sticker Star stench that I can't really get hyped for it or see myself buying it. maybe stuff will pop up that will change my mind, but until such a thing happens it's not on my radar.

if anything I just have a stronger interest in getting that Bug fables game (indie game that taken inspiration from classic paper Mario)

 

[Koopaul]

So about Smash. I really hope they don't shadow drop any fighter news like they did with Paper Mario. I don't want to be spoiled by social media posts.

 

[Shroob]

I'll definitely give the new Paper Mario a fair shake, but, if it's just more of the same from the last 2 games, count me out, chief.


I'm not opposed to innovation, hell, I ADORE Super despite people's divisive opinions on it, but Sticker Star and Color Splash are just not good games.



That's not to say both games don't have merit. Sticker Star has some FANTASTIC music, and Color Splash has some legit funny dialogue(Albeit, 4th wall breaks and le funneh maymays get very boring very fast), but the simple fact is:


An RPG where you gain more or less nothing from fighting enemies and are better off just ignoring them while blitzing to the end of each stage has failed as an RPG.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

m not opposed to innovation, hell, I ADORE Super despite people's divisive opinions on it, but Sticker Star and Color Splash are just not good games.

This is where I am.

Super Paper Mario is my favorite Paper Mario game. I'm willing to try this as it seems to be trying it own thing gameplay wise.

That said, I'm still cautious.

 

[Shroob]

Super, while being a HUGE change, still kept the spirit of Paper Mario.

You had strange locales with strange locals. The pixels didn't really talk besides Tippi, but you had Bowser, Peach and Luigi to play off of. The music was great, there were RPG-lite elements which encouraged you to fight enemies, and the story was the best in the series, hands down.



Sticker Star, what even can be said? It was bland and generic, coupled with a pointless battle system and the sticker system that no one liked from what I can tell. The music was phenomenal, maybe even the best in the series, but music alone can't fix a bad game.


Sticker Star feels like one of the Slurp Guys from Color Splash sucked the life and what made Paper Mario unique out of the series. Gone were the days of wacky locales and people, now you had.... Mario.... and Toads. Just, nameless, generic Toads with no defining features.


This is honestly why Partners played such a big role to be fair. In Paper Mario, oddly, the most bland character, is Mario. Mario has no personality besides "The Hero" and remains a near-silent protagonist through the game, while Partners had life to them, giving the party a quirky voice and personality.


It's why the Mario&Luigi series was soo vibrant. Mario on his own is dull, Mario WITH someone to play off of is enjoyable.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So I guess we could have a spirit event with Paper Mario.

King Olly
Olivia
Origami Peach
Folded Bowser

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sticker Star, what even can be said? It was bland and generic, coupled with a pointless battle system and the sticker system that no one liked from what I can tell. The music was phenomenal, maybe even the best in the series, but music alone can't fix a bad game.

I found the sticker system the first good inventory system in the game. You had actual space to pick up items. Of course, yeah, the battles were poor. They had an interesting idea, but the game is really unbalanced. The Sticker system was however ingenious, outside of the inability to attack for free. The card system requiring paint, though? That felt very tacked on.

That said, TTYD is fun, but the badge system is broken as hell in that game. You were able to be 99% invincible effectively and it wasn't even hard to get to. You just had to avoid leveling up enough so you never had to level up HP. There's too many special badges, and that was an issue in itself. It was a fun game, but balanced? No. Super Paper Mario had more balance in comparison, and I felt the enemies got a bit too tough near the end of the game(though the Dark Challenge was meant to be highly difficult, but it was only a bit overwhelming with a bad inventory. A few more items and it would be still difficult but not too much in general).

Something people aren't realizing is Miyamoto did tell them outright to stop using OC's as is, as well as change up the battle system. The stickers/cards were already intended to be in, so the battle system was going to see changes. More than likely, the "free attack" with your hammer/boots wasn't even going to be a thing, partners or not.

Of course it lost some of its charm. It was effectively forced to do so. The lack of a story isn't Miyamoto's fault, nor is the sticker system.

Besides, it sucks, but they already made it clear this is the core direction the series is going in and intends to stay there. I'm sure we can get better characters again once Miyamoto no longer is at the helm. But to be frank, the Badge System went too far. It shouldn't be that abusable in a balanced game. There wasn't even a better option over Danger Mario. My guess is part of why the badge system is gone is to help separate it from the Mario & Luigi series, by focusing more on the Paper after TTYD made it a pretty important thing. As for the paper abilities, I feel this is the reason Paper Mario truly stands out as a person over Mario. They're two different people, one from more of a storybook while the other from the real world. Paper Jam I won't argue is a great game, but I felt they massively improved the character with that. Paper is his identity.

 

[andree123]

Panel De Pon is getting released in US.

 

[Will]

Panel De Pon is getting released in US.

Guys, this obviously means Lip is getting into Smash! It's basically confirmed! Nintendo is just going to shill SNES Online, it's perfect timing!!!

I'll be real I heard of none of these games except Panel de Pon. It's like this service is only being used to show cool, obscure games an intern found in their storage room more than the mainline ones you see in the $80 SNES Classic.

 

[Gribbo]

Wild Guns is a great co-op shooter. It got a remake recently so I'm surprised to see it here but it's a must-play if you've got somebody else willing to play it.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Its funny, 25 years later and after all the various localization efforts and the knowledge its origins as Panel de Pon, I still instinctively call that game Tetris Attack.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Guys, this obviously means Lip is getting into Smash! It's basically confirmed! Nintendo is just going to shill SNES Online, it's perfect timing!!!

I'll be real I heard of none of these games except Panel de Pon. It's like this service is only being used to show cool, obscure games an intern found in their storage room more than the mainline ones you see in the $80 SNES Classic.

Wild Guns is definitely not obscure lol

 

[YoshiandToad]

Its funny, 25 year later and after all the various localization efforts and the knowledge of real its origins as Panel de Pon, I still instinctively call that game Tetris Attack.

It's ok, my brain still filters Lip out and replaces her with Yoshi.

 

[Koopaul]

In Japan they're getting Super Punch-Out. Which was a rare game over there.