Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The Tapatalk thread in question doesn't have a source, so it should be thrown out entirely honestly.

The thing is, they didn't rework the character, they completely changed it because they legally had to due to broadcast laws. Literally nothing was kept the same aside from the title of Captain. And because of the unreliable credit copyright there's no reliable evidence that NINTENDO owns the character, either.

Except all that was changed was the names, shortening them or slightly changing them up to avoid direct advertisements of companies. The designs still matched previous previews made by Nintendo, who advertised the series too. This might also be why Capcom and Konami weren't credited, but that's doubtful. Nintendo's draconian practices at the time of not crediting all IP's is more likely.

Even without the tapatalk thread, there's zero evidence that DiC bought any rights to the character. Again, Nintendo, who owns Captain Nintendo, simply asked them to rework the character. He was officially going to be called Captain Nintendo till Nintendo outright told them to change the name to Captain N, due to bylaws. But it was still Nintendo that said it, which already points to them fully owning the character(which really had no evidence to try and say otherwise). It doesn't really matter much if people tasked with working with the character change them up a bit, as long as they are allowed to or are told to(in which case, they were told to by Nintendo themselves). I'm trying to refind the url, but the only site that I think mentioned it won't let me use it without Adblocker, so this'll take a while. So far, best url has no citings, while another one doesn't entirely explain it any better, but is an actual person speaking on it, who created Buddy Boy(an idea similar to Captain N, but nowhere near the same). But the one thing that was clear every time is Nintendo directly told DiC to change stuff.

https://www.fanbyte.com/features/the-wet-and-wild-history-of-american-nintendo-cartoons/ One of the unreliable sites about it. I know of the other one, but I still can't find the url. Sorry for taking so long. https://www.svg.com/108892/untold-truth-captain-n-game-master/ Found the better article. Though this one is mixed too, so it's kind of hard to say what exactly happened. Though we still lack any copyright claims of DiC having Captain N while the actual series was pretty much bought by Nintendo in itself. It still leans in Nintendo's favor entirely, with the only things noted is that DiC is a producer, but that's it, among official claims. And then in a twist, the first article is the one that's inaccurate, as the rest mention that they weren't contacted by Nintendo to change it. Really strange.

 

[TheGuv]

Hello guys, just joined Smashboards

I wanted to ask do you think ARMS and Astral Chain (I'm not sure if it's even a nintendo IP) have a chance to be DLC or at least newcomers in a future game? thanks.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hello guys, just joined Smashboards

I wanted to ask do you think ARMS and Astral Chain (I'm not sure if it's even a nintendo IP) have a chance to be DLC or at least newcomers in a future game? thanks.

ARMS is probably dead for the Fighter's Pass. The main characters are literally costumes, and the actual de facto one is an AT. They came around when development/character choices were done, and now are already fully out, meaning they aren't nearly as relevant. Future game, however, is way more in its favor.

Astral Chain could go either way. It seems to be developed at the right time. It fits both categories easily. Though it also depends how Sakurai(or a new developer) picks characters for the next game. Most of them are about relevancy(as in their game is in development at the right time) outside of retros and third parties, who don't follow that guideline. Not that it means every single character that doesn't fit retro or 3rd party will use that guideline, but it's usually the case. Pokemon is one such example, as twice he's put a slot aside for a later character that'll show up. Whether or not he uses the slot depends upon if an interesting one is there. Note that the slot isn't meant for just any Pokemon, but a Pokemon from that particular set of games. So it's doubtful he'll just choose any over it from another game just to fill that slot. If nothing comes up, nothing comes up. Though I can imagine other characters could be added, including a Pokemon, for its own sake otherwise. It's probably best to look at, in this case, he doesn't go for patterns. He goes for interesting stuff.

 

[TheGuv]

ARMS is probably dead for the Fighter's Pass. The main characters are literally costumes, and the actual de facto one is an AT. They came around when development/character choices were done, and now are already fully out, meaning they aren't nearly as relevant. Future game, however, is way more in its favor.

Astral Chain could go either way. It seems to be developed at the right time. It fits both categories easily. Though it also depends how Sakurai(or a new developer) picks characters for the next game. Most of them are about relevancy(as in their game is in development at the right time) outside of retros and third parties, who don't follow that guideline. Not that it means every single character that doesn't fit retro or 3rd party will use that guideline, but it's usually the case. Pokemon is one such example, as twice he's put a slot aside for a later character that'll show up. Whether or not he uses the slot depends upon if an interesting one is there. Note that the slot isn't meant for just any Pokemon, but a Pokemon from that particular set of games. So it's doubtful he'll just choose any over it from another game just to fill that slot. If nothing comes up, nothing comes up. Though I can imagine other characters could be added, including a Pokemon, for its own sake otherwise. It's probably best to look at, in this case, he doesn't go for patterns. He goes for interesting stuff.

Also Splatoon (2015) was added into Ultimate and the franchise was 3 years old when it was added into Ultimate meaning that newer IPs might have a chance this time around.

If not, i hope the director of Smash 6 considers Akira Howard at very least, i think Astral Chain has great potential for Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Also Splatoon (2015) was added into Ultimate and the franchise was 3 years old when it was added into Ultimate meaning that newer IPs might have a chance this time around.

If not, i hope the director of Smash 6 considers Akira Howard at very least, i think Astral Chain has great potential for Smash.

Though to be fair, the game already had votes via Inkling on the ballot, getting a costume instead. This is probably more ballot than purely relevancy. Especially when you consider when Splatoon 2 was worked on.

 

[Arcadenik]

I would agree with you if I didn't feel my heart breaking everytime that I open the CSS and I'm reminded that Dixie is not there

I feel the same way with Dixie Kong, Toad, and Meowth.

To me, they are the last pre-Smash 64 Nintendo All-Stars not yet in Smash.

 

[Megadoomer]

Isn’t Eternal Darkness American made? There’s an Alexandra Roivas Spirit

It's Canadian-made - a relatively minor difference, since it's still in the same category of "made outside of Japan", but I consider it an important one since I'm Canadian.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hello guys, just joined Smashboards

I wanted to ask do you think ARMS and Astral Chain (I'm not sure if it's even a nintendo IP) have a chance to be DLC or at least newcomers in a future game? thanks.

I think not for the Fighter Pass, but for more DLC after that? Sure.

I'd say ARMS is guaranteed for Smash 6, and Astral Chain as well if it sells. And I'm up for both of them, love ARMS and Astral Chain looks wicked fun.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think not for the Fighter Pass, but for more DLC after that? Sure.

I'd say ARMS is guaranteed for Smash 6, and Astral Chain as well if it sells. And I'm up for both of them, love ARMS and Astral Chain looks wicked fun.

I hope Spring Man doesn't get Waluigi'd (i.e. stuck as AT forever) but instead gets the Little Mac treatment. As in become playable, not become the butt of pro-smash player jokes.

 

[TheGuv]

I think not for the Fighter Pass, but for more DLC after that? Sure.

I'd say ARMS is guaranteed for Smash 6, and Astral Chain as well if it sells. And I'm up for both of them, love ARMS and Astral Chain looks wicked fun.

One thing holding back ARMS and Astral Chain is that Smash 6 might be like a 2026 game and good knows if they will be alive by then and other newer IPs might get in first.

I hope they get in the fighter pass or next game, they would me cool.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Poor ARMS was released too late for base game and died too early for DLC consideration. In terms of Smash 6, that game is at least 5 years away (probably much longer) so I wouldn't be surprised if Spring Man doesn't quite make it due to ARMS being irrelevant or seen as one of the Switches early gimmick games like Wii Sports Resort or 1, 2, Switch.



EDIT: This is kinda off topic but...Am I crazy or is the watermark on my signature pic new?

 

[Deleted member]

ARMS has a good chance for next game, it pretty much depends how Nintendo handles it for the future if they make a sequel or plan to make a sequel from now to the next Smash.

Dunno why people think that 2M+ sales is a bad thing for a newcomer series or means that the series is dead especially given that, sadly, some other attempts to make new franchises like Ever Oasis or Codename S.T.E.A.M. didnt even came up close to reaching that number.

 

[StormC]

I’d guess around 2024 for Smash 6. My feeling is the Super Switch would come out in 2023, maybe in the holiday season, based on previously console cycles. I imagine they’d want a new Smash out pretty soon after the record breaking success of Ultimate, and they could celebrate the 25th anniversary of the series as well. Whether it’s a port or a new game, hard to say, but I imagine most of us would be fine paying for a port with all Ultimate content (base game + DLC) with maybe 10-15 new stages and 8-10 unique newcomers since they can save time not recreating characters and stages. It would still sell insanely well and probably cost significantly less than Ultimate did unless they loaded it up with new content (story mode maybe?).

Like just thinking of the hype cycle for that:

February 2024 Direct: confirm Ultimate DX for the 25th anniversary, casually announce newcomer like they did for Inkling.

E3 2024: Big info blowout, 2 newcomers.

August 2024: Smash Direct, 2 reveals and echoes.

September 2024 Direct: 1 reveal.

October 2024: Smash Direct, 2 last reveals and the final echoes, game is out by Black Friday.

This is just spitballing of course and who knows what the company will look like in 2024 but this feels plausible enough to me. My hope is the overwhelming reception to Everyone Is Here makes Nintendo realize what they lose by cutting characters, even if some have licensing issues or companies not playing ball, surely everyone involved realizes that people play Smash for the characters and Ultimate is a solid enough game that a DX version would still blow up the charts.

 

[KillerCage]

I'm going to side with this.
If I recall correctly, yes, anyone can make an add, BUT, it's helluva expensive, and there are certain permissions that Youtube has to grant you. Meaning if you're not a company relevant to the ad, then you most likely get denied. This last bit I could have misinterpreted, so don't hold me to my word here.

But yeah, Google theory is an interesting case. It came, it was discussed to death, and it left. But I don't think it was ever entirely disproved. It could have been a huge blunder, and the people responsible are probably happy we forgot about it.

Thank you for not shooting down the idea that Google Theory still has life. I also recall hearing the google ads were VERY expensive. If the next Fighters' Pass character is neither Doom Slayer nor Ryu Hayabusa, then I'll concede that Google Theory is truly dead. For now, we just have to wait.

 

[StormC]

Thank you for not shooting down the idea that Google Theory still has life. I also recall hearing the google ads were VERY expensive. If the next Fighters' Pass character is neither Doom Slayer nor Ryu Hayabusa, then I'll concede that Google Theory is truly dead. For now, we just have to wait.

How would you explain it having Artorias and not Hero?

 

[shinhed-echi]

How would you explain it having Artorias and not Hero?

I believe thst
a) Nobody tried Hero because they were too busy trying with Erdrick / Luminary.

b) Artorias itself is DLC but from another game. This is why they say this character must have triggered the ad.

 

[StormC]

I believe thst
a) Nobody tried Hero because they were too busy trying with Erdrick / Luminary.

b) Artorias itself is DLC but from another game. This is why they say this character must have triggered the ad.

The advertisement is for Smash. Googling Artorias pulled up a Smash ad, specifically.

 

[Deleted member]

I believe thst
a) Nobody tried Hero because they were too busy trying with Erdrick / Luminary.

b) Artorias itself is DLC but from another game. This is why they say this character must have triggered the ad.

Wouldn't more characters that are DLC for other games would trigger the ads?

 

[TheGuv]

Let's not forget that Xenoblade Chronicles (2010) got into Smash 4 when XC1 barely sold 1 million copies, so i think Spring Man has a chance still, specially if the next director isn't as picky as sakurai with new franchise newcomers, for all we know a new director might be more interested in interesting new IP fighters like Akira Howard, Spring Man or whatever new IPs nintendo creates in the future

 

[shinhed-echi]

Wouldn't more characters that are DLC for other games would trigger the ads?

The advertisement is for Smash. Googling Artorias pulled up a Smash ad, specifically.

That would make a lot of sense. I’m not familiar with the whole picture, I think Papagenos explained it in one of his videos. I literally just read this on another thread today so I can’t really go into specifics. But at least point A I’m sure of.

 

[KillerCage]

How would you explain it having Artorias and not Hero?

"Hero" was never tested in Google's European search engine; Erdrick and Luminary were tested because they weren't generic names like "Hero." As for Artorias, his name is part of the "Artorias of the Abyss" DLC and the search engine may have added "DLC" as a keyword when "Artorias Smash Bros Ultimate" was searched. PapaGenos can explain this situation better than I could.

The timestamp should be 35:15.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright time to make a silly Fighter Pass theory called the Face Theory!

We've had Mii Costumes, Pillars, Google, Trailers, and Colors involved with theories about the Fighter Pass, but if you've noticed with their renders, Joker and BK are all rather showing happy expressions while Hero's facial expression looks rather determined . When you look at the order of the Fighter Pass, Hero is in between Joker and BK as he's in the 2nd Fighter Pack. Whoever's in the 4th Fighter Pack will probably have a render with a much meaner facial expression like Hero's rather than being all smiley and happy like Joker and BK. Does this mean the 5th Fighter will have similar facial expressions like Joker and BK? Well, not exactly as there's 2 different scenarios that could potentially play out. For the first scenario, we're at a 2 - 2 balance for facial expressions if the 4th fighter doesn't share the same expressions as Joker and BK. This could potentially mean the 5th Fighter will have a render with an expression that could be either sad (like maybe Sobble?) or scared (potentially a character from a Horror game?) to keep the balance in check. As for the 2nd scenario, we have to look at Piranha Plant, and while it isn't a part of the Figher Pass, the expression on Piranha Plant's render appears to be smiling . This would mean the balance of facial expressions would make it 3 - 2, and we could see another determined render for the 5th Fighter to balance things out.

This theory is not really meant to be taken all too seriously but I thought it would be fun to randomly think of 1 revolving around the Fighter Pass that doesn't involve previous theories that have been mentioned multiple times in the speculation scene.

 

[TheGuv]

Didn't the Google Theory had 5 characters and the hero wasn't in it? that fact alone makes it fake imo.

 

[Door Key Pig]

I made a post in the Karate Joe thread about if Opossom's supposed leak means stuff about spirits as fighters THUS something about Rhythm Paradise getting a fighter:

https://smashboards.com/threads/hey...e-joe-for-smash-ultimate.453957/post-23422144

IDK, they have non spirit characters, but they may not be as iconic as Chorus Kids or what have you to even be marketable AS a Rhythm Paradise thing? Maybe if it was a Mr. G&W/Duck Hunt/Pac-Man "amalgamation" of different minigames, w/ a couple Rhythm characters teaming up thus not in the spirits, tho maybe that's a stretch...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Let's not forget that Xenoblade Chronicles (2010) got into Smash 4 when XC1 barely sold 1 million copies, so i think Spring Man has a chance still...

True, but Xenoblade Chronicles had enough western fan demand to warrant a localization while ARMS was more of a flash in the pan. I'd say there probably won't be an ARMS character in the next smash game unless there is a sequel or if Sakurai or the next director particularly liked the game.

 

[TheGuv]

True, but Xenoblade Chronicles had enough western fan demand to warrant a localization while ARMS was more of a flash in the pan. I'd say there probably won't be an ARMS character in the next smash game unless there is a sequel or if Sakurai or the next director particularly liked the game.

If there's a sequel i'd say his chances would boost by a lot.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I made a post in the Karate Joe thread about if Opossom's supposed leak means stuff about spirits as fighters THUS something about Rhythm Paradise getting a fighter:

https://smashboards.com/threads/hey...e-joe-for-smash-ultimate.453957/post-23422144

IDK, they have non spirit characters, but they may not be as iconic as Chorus Kids or what have you to even be marketable AS a Rhythm Paradise thing? Maybe if it was a Mr. G&W/Duck Hunt/Pac-Man "amalgamation" of different minigames, w/ a couple Rhythm characters teaming up thus not in the spirits, tho maybe that's a stretch...

What about Marshal? I mean, I personally don't think we're getting any first parties, but wouldn't he be viable as an amalgamation character for RH? I think people in his thread discuss him in that way.

I don't know much about RH, so let me ask this: why do people give this much attention to Karate Joe or Chorus Kids over the others? Just curious.

 

[Guynamednelson]

What about Marshal? I mean, I personally don't think we're getting any first parties, but wouldn't he be viable as an amalgamation character for RH? I think people in his thread discuss him in that way.

I don't know much about RH, so let me ask this: why do people give this much attention to Karate Joe or Chorus Kids over the others? Just curious.

Karate Joe was the star of the first minigame in the first game, and every sequel introduces a new version of Karate Man.
The Chorus Kids were heavily featured in the DS game's marketing and seem to be the basis for Marshal.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If there's a sequel i'd say his chances would boost by a lot.

Most definitely.

What about Marshal? I mean, I personally don't think we're getting any first parties, but wouldn't he be viable as an amalgamation character for RH? I think people in his thread discuss him in that way.

I don't know much about RH, so let me ask this: why do people give this much attention to Karate Joe or Chorus Kids over the others? Just curious.

True, but he also only appears in one game. If they did pick a game mascot character to be the face of an amalgamation character it would probably be Tibby since he is the newest one or Barista since he's also been in every game.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Karate Joe was the star of the first minigame in the first game, and every sequel introduces a new version of Karate Man.
The Chorus Kids were heavily featured in the DS game's marketing and seem to be the basis for Marshal.

Yeah plus the Chorus Kids were the supposed character choice from the infamous Gemetsu Leak that was only wrong about Chrom and the Rhythm Paradise character in terms of Smash 4 newcomers, so I imagine that put them in a lot of people's minds, too. Not to mention, they also happen to be the Rhythm spirit to get a Smash Tag icon in Ultimate, for what it's worth (maybe that shows their popularity or gives credence to the idea that they were the choice for the Rhythm character in 4).

But yeah, I actually kind of forgot about Marshall, guess I mentally grouped him with the Chorus Kids on account of their similar look Embarrass If you were to count the general look they both have, that could perhaps be considered a pretty consistently appearing and recognisable "character" of Rhythm Paradise, appearing on every game's box since DS and then some:

Spoiler

Imagine if it was something like standalone Marshall as a pastiche of various mini-games for attacks, and it technically didn't count as a spirit upgrade because he and the CKs are separate (and in quantity) entities lol

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

"spearMAN"
"preferably a GIRL"

...OK. Personally I prefer of they choose an important and interesting character instead of adding a random unit based on what they hold at their hand.

LOL! I put the blame on Google and my lack of attention.

It would not be to add a random character. It was so they would not come with someone else who used a sword. But actually I do not want anyone else from Fire Emblem, honestly. If it is to add something, then that is with skins for the existing ones. Like a Hero Ike with an ax, and a Chrom or Marth with a spear. Even if they do not modify the hit boxes. I'm hoping to add Big Boss and other skins to Snake too, for example. But I focus more on what matters at the moment: The last two characters in the game. Not that I need my wishes to be attended to, because they have gone too far for Master Sakurai.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

If i had to bet on any leak being real at this point, I would bet on the Raysquad leak.

If I had to guess the last two characters, I would say RE and Crash for Fighters Pass 1.

 

[TheGuv]

I kinda wish we got a 1stparty pass: Rex. Spring Man, Akira Foward, Byleth and oddball like Musashi.

I would like it more than the current pass, but im aware i'm in the minority it would be cool in my eyes at least.

 

[Opossum]

LOL! I put the blame on Google and my lack of attention.

It would not be to add a random character. It was so they would not come with someone else who used a sword. But actually I do not want anyone else from Fire Emblem, honestly. If it is to add something, then that is with skins for the existing ones. Like a Hero Ike with an ax, and a Chrom or Marth with a spear. Even if they do not modify the hit boxes. I'm hoping to add Big Boss and other skins to Snake too, for example. But I focus more on what matters at the moment: The last two characters in the game. Not that I need my wishes to be attended to, because they have gone too far for Master Sakurai.

Just as a note, Marth has actually never been able to use Lances in any of his appearances, main series or spin off.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I’d guess around 2024 for Smash 6. My feeling is the Super Switch would come out in 2023, maybe in the holiday season, based on previously console cycles. I imagine they’d want a new Smash out pretty soon after the record breaking success of Ultimate, and they could celebrate the 25th anniversary of the series as well. Whether it’s a port or a new game, hard to say, but I imagine most of us would be fine paying for a port with all Ultimate content (base game + DLC) with maybe 10-15 new stages and 8-10 unique newcomers since they can save time not recreating characters and stages. It would still sell insanely well and probably cost significantly less than Ultimate did unless they loaded it up with new content (story mode maybe?).

Like just thinking of the hype cycle for that:

February 2024 Direct: confirm Ultimate DX for the 25th anniversary, casually announce newcomer like they did for Inkling.

E3 2024: Big info blowout, 2 newcomers.

August 2024: Smash Direct, 2 reveals and echoes.

September 2024 Direct: 1 reveal.

October 2024: Smash Direct, 2 last reveals and the final echoes, game is out by Black Friday.

This is just spitballing of course and who knows what the company will look like in 2024 but this feels plausible enough to me. My hope is the overwhelming reception to Everyone Is Here makes Nintendo realize what they lose by cutting characters, even if some have licensing issues or companies not playing ball, surely everyone involved realizes that people play Smash for the characters and Ultimate is a solid enough game that a DX version would still blow up the charts.

This would be the dream.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

With how 3 out of the 5 choices for characters have played out I think the only "theory" that holds any water right now is the companion theory, since every character so far has brought along other characters from their franchises in taunts and attacks.

Which I guess shrinks down the potential lists of characters drastically. I'm willing to put my eggs in the Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton baskets.

 

[Curious Villager]

With how 3 out of the 5 choices for characters have played out I think the only "theory" that holds any water right now is the companion theory, since every character so far has brought along other characters from their franchises in taunts and attacks.

Which I guess shrinks down the potential lists of characters drastically. I'm willing to put my eggs in the Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton baskets.

I wish I was as optimistic as you are in regards to that theory....

It would be a miracle if both Layton and Phoenix happen to be those last two fighters.
Then again, this game in of its own has been quite the miracle so far....

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Eh, Banjo & Kazooie are more like a straight out partnership. Slime and Morganna are actual companions. The theory holds little water. The only thing that feels realistic is that the Pass is going to be 3rd party, and ones that aren't easy to expect. The Smash bubble aside, each one is hard for many to predict. Banjo-Kazooie is often called a dead franchise, despite it gaining new merchandise(which is keeping it alive, though I agree with the idea it's on fumes).

It's also unfortunate too, as a lot of franchises are actually dead(so has nothing new at all in any way) and aren't getting much beyond cameos in Smash, but people misunderstand what beings dead truly means, so it causes a lot of silly arguments.

 

[KillerCage]

Didn't the Google Theory had 5 characters and the hero wasn't in it? that fact alone makes it fake imo.

The ad required VERY particular names along Smash Bros Ultimate to be triggered in Google's European search engine. We know this because neither Doom Guy nor Doom Marine triggered the ad, but Doom Slayer did. This should also have been the case for the Hero EXPECT "Hero" was never tested. Everyone back then thought the Dragon Quest rep was going to be Erdrick (which is kinda true as he is an alternate costume) or Luminary (who turned out to be the default costume) so both names were tested and neither triggered the ad. "Hero" was considered so generic a name that no one bothered to test it. We now cannot go back and check because Banjo Kazooie, Doom Slayer, and Ryu Hayabusa were converted into negative keywords. "Artorias" was blacklisted too, but I suspect they did that to cover up the ACTUAL two remaining Fighters' Pass characters: Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that the Google Theory holds any ground. Any theory that outright depends on a search engine just isn't credible to me.