Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Ben Holt]

Guess Robin's the main character of Awakening and Chrom was just a side character by your logic. GTFO with this inability to actually define storytelling on the basis of Smash Bros character selections of all things.

1. Sakurai said in Smash 4 that Chrom was originally going to be the Smash 4 Fire Emblem newcomer but was scrapped for being too similar to Marth and Ike, so Robin was the exception to the rule.
2. Did you miss my list I made earlier where Chrom was in, but Robin wasn't?

 

[BZL8]

Gonna add another thing. Calling all non-protagonist characters side characters is like saying a character like Ganondorf has the same level of importance in a story as Tingle.

 

[Deleted member]

This is like saying Mickey Mouse is the most popular Disney character because everybody knows him despite probably never watching a Mickey Mouse cartoon. General knowledge does not equate to "He's my favorite."

And before anyone asks who could be more popular than Mickey Mouse (since I see It coming):

Donald Duck.

Donald Duck for a long time was more popular than Mickey to so much extent that his cartoons lasted longer than Mickey's for more than two decades.

 

[Schnee117]

If you consider the likes of Bowser and Sephiroth to be "side characters" then it's abundantly clear you have no idea what you're on about.

 

[Ben Holt]

Gonna add another thing. Calling non-protagonist characters side characters is like saying a character like Ganondorf has the same level of importance in a story as Tingle.

Ok. Theater kid from High School here.
There is a main character for every story and the rest is known as the supporting cast.
A supporting character may be major or minor, but the label is the same, and nowhere does it imply that all supporting characters are equally important.
I've been in plays where some supporting characters are almost ambiguous as to whether they are the main character or a supporting character and some supporting characters get three lines in the whole script.
But that doesn't change the terminology of "main character" and "supporting cast".

 

[Slime Master]

All talk of which 3H character is the most popular and how that effects smash is effectively moot, since the choices for the fighter pass were made before 3H released, and thus before long term popularity could be established.

 

[Deleted member]

1. Sakurai said in Smash 4 that Chrom was originally going to be the Smash 4 Fire Emblem newcomer but was scrapped for being too similar to Marth and Ike, so Robin was the exception to the rule.

This one point literally contradicts your entire ****ing argument over Byleth. Robin was the one chosen for Smash first, so by your logic, he's the main character of Awakening.

Or do you just make up the rules as you go along? Hey I don't blame you. With how wrong and dogpiled you are, I'd be in denial too.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Wow. People are still salty that the main protagonist of Three Houses got picked over the side characters.

But if I really have to spell it out, here's why I picked Marth, Lucina, Ike, Chrom, and Byleth.

: The OG.
: The mandatory Echo Fighter, but see Chrom for side-reasoning.
: The Character that popularized Fire Emblem internationally.
: Awakening supposedly saved the series according to Nintendo. Was also at one point the best selling and most critically acclaimed Fire Emblem game ever.
: The protagonist of the best selling Fire Emblem game of all time.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the games starring Ike, despite him NOW being popular, sold so poorly that they needed Awakening to save the series?

I mean I still agree with keeping him because he's the overall winner of the Fire Emblem Heroes first popularity poll but still.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Gonna add another thing. Calling all non-protagonist characters side characters is like saying a character like Ganondorf has the same level of importance in a story as Tingle.

Ironically Tingle does have his own stories(that at least Nintendo is fine with recognizing) as a protagonist.

In fact, he's the only one other than Zelda to be playable as the protagonist in a Zelda series game. Hopefully Zelda will be playable as the protagonist in canon game. Though to be fair, Tingle's games are dubiously canon.

 

[Ben Holt]

This one point literally contradicts your entire ****ing argument over Byleth. Robin was the one chosen for Smash first, so by your logic, he's the main character of Awakening.

Or do you just make up the rules as you go along? Hey I don't blame you. With how wrong and dogpiled you are, I'd be in denial too.

Appeal to masses fallacy.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Heihachi is my favorite "side character"

 

[Will]

We still arguing over Fire Emblem against the guy who gets in arguments with other people here as the radical idea 95% of the thread disagrees with once a week? Get the guy with the Young Link avatar and it'll just be another Sunday night in this forum.

All talk of which 3H character is the most popular and how that effects smash is effectively moot, since the choices for the fighter pass were made before 3H released, and thus before long term popularity could be established.

Yeah, but at least Three Houses was a good game that made me feel some solace in Byleth being a shill pick. Can't say that about Corrin.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Byleth was chosen to be in Smash Ultimate before Three Houses released, so Byleth being placed in Smash because they were the “popular” pick doesn’t really fit that timeline.

I would say a side character in Three Houses would be constituted by, like, either a House member that isn’t one of the main “lords” or, like, the Garreg Mach guard.

In Three Houses, each of the paths you take largely revolves around the actions of 1 of the choices. One of them plays a major role in all routes, as they essentially set the plot in motion.

One cannot be a side character, and play a pivotal role in the story. Those are two completely different things.

Saying Dimitri, Edelgard (best), and Claude are “side characters” is akin to saying Hermoine, Draco Malfoy, and Ron Weasley aren’t main characters in Harry Potter. Obviously the plot revolves around Harry, but his two best friends and his rivals are important characters to the plot and narrative.

Hope I’m not coming across as rude, however I do feel there’s a misunderstanding. Popularity does not necessarily denote plot importance. Kass is a majorly popular character to come out of Breath of the Wild, however, he is not overall as important as other characters.

Just because Kass, for example, is not playable in Smash does not mean that Kass is unpopular, or something of the sort.

Hell, Smash will undoubtedly end with a handful, if not several handfuls, of popular characters missing out. That doesn’t mean that those characters aren’t popular in their own ways.

Anyway, carry on. Just happened to see this happening and I was like, “Woah” and then “Oof” and then I just kinda wrote a Jonespost..:sorry about that.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok. Theater kid from High School here.
There is a main character for every story and the rest is known as the supporting cast.
A supporting character may be major or minor, but the label is the same, and nowhere does it imply that all supporting characters are equally important.
I've been in plays where some supporting characters are almost ambiguous as to whether they are the main character or a supporting character and some supporting characters get three lines in the whole script.
But that doesn't change the terminology of "main character" and "supporting cast".

Wrong again.

These are the roles which form a Cast:

The protagonist: the main character of the Story

The villain: someone who the protagonist has to stop (think of **** Dastardly)

The antagonist: an opponent of the protagonist. Unlike the villain they can be just a good character who happens to have a rivalry with the protagonist (think of Apollo Creed)

Supporting characters: characters who are key to the plot and have important associations with the protagonist, villain and/or antagonist (think of the families of Romeo and Julieta)

Side characters: characters who have some stuff defined but don't have the same ties to the protagonist, the antagonist and/or the villain as much as the supporting characters do (think of Bill in Pokémon Red and Blue)

Background characters: characters who don't tend to present key traits and are mostly presente to add more elements to the scene.

 

[Ben Holt]

Heihachi is my favorite "side character"

Villains can be main characters as well.
See Eric Cartman.

 

[Deleted member]

Appeal to masses fallacy.

There was more to my post beyond "appeal to masses," like how your entire point about Byleth being chosen over Edelgard makes them the main character being ****ing contradicted by Robin coming before Chrom.

But hey, you can ignore that. Not like I'm wrong here unless you're ready to actually type out deductive reasoning.

 

[YoshiandToad]

The irony of Sakurai avoiding Chrom in Sm4sh due to his similarities to Ike, only to slap Lucina in specifically because she's similar to Marth still makes me smile.

Kinda like how he avoided including Wario in Melee due to a fear of too many Mario characters and then literally makes Mario in a lab coat one of the clone additions to replace him.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ironically Tingle does have his own stories(that at least Nintendo is fine with recognizing) as a protagonist.

In fact, he's the only one other than Zelda to be playable as the protagonist in a Zelda series game. Hopefully Zelda will be playable as the protagonist in canon game. Though to be fair, Tingle's games are dubiously canon.

Real talk, if Tingle somehow comes to Smash, I want him to represent his series. Like how Donkey Kong and Yoshi are treated as seperate series despite coming from Mario.

 

[BZL8]

Ok. Theater kid from High School here.
There is a main character for every story and the rest is known as the supporting cast.
A supporting character may be major or minor, but the label is the same, and nowhere does it imply that all supporting characters are equally important.
I've been in plays where some supporting characters are almost ambiguous as to whether they are the main character or a supporting character and some supporting characters get three lines in the whole script.
But that doesn't change the terminology of "main character" and "supporting cast".

Think I found where the misunderstanding happened.

Generally when the general public thinks of "side character" when consuming a work, that definition isn't going come to mind. The public views the status of character based on their role in a work's conflict, not "just one character is the lead, everyone else is supporting".

 

[Slime Master]

We still arguing over Fire Emblem against the guy who gets in arguments with other people here as the radical idea 95% of the thread disagrees with once a week? Get the guy with the Young Link avatar and it'll just be another Sunday night in this forum.


Yeah, but at least Three Houses was a good game that made me feel some solace in Byleth being a shill pick. Can't say that about Corrin.

Oh I had no intention of implying they were a "bad" choice, just that popularity had nothing to do with the choice.

 

[Ben Holt]

The irony of Sakurai avoiding Chrom in Sm4sh due to his similarities to Ike, only to slap Lucina in specifically because she's similar to Marth still makes me smile.

Kinda like how he avoided including Wario in Melee due to a fear of too many Mario characters and then literally makes Mario in a lab coat one of the clone additions to replace him.

Silly Toad. Wario and Yoshi aren't Mario characters! They have their own symbol!

 

[Opossum]

Villains can be main characters as well.
See Eric Cartman.

You yourself called Sephiroth and Bowser side characters.

 

[Ben Holt]

You yourself called Sephiroth and Bowser side characters.

Because they aren't Mario or Cloud.
Heihachi IS the main character in half the Tekken games despite being a villain.

 

[Lamperouge]

I feel like the term "deuteragonist" is a lot more applicable for the house leaders than simply just being part of the "supporting cast".

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Anyway, despite being from Final Fantasy VII please add Tifa. She’s ****ing cool, beats ass, and is a really great character.

Fight me.

God I love a woman who can beat my ass.

 

[BZL8]

People debate the role of characters based in terms of basic story/conflict terminology not theater terminology. Theater may view things differently, but when you discuss characters to the average person, the basic story/conflict terminology will always come to their mind.

Anyway, despite being from Final Fantasy VII please add Tifa. She’s ****ing cool, beats ass, and is a really great character.

Fight me.

God I love a woman who can beat my ass.

Her moveset in FF7R would translate really well to Smash.

 

[Will]

You yourself called Sephiroth and Bowser side characters.

Dude. Just stop arguing with him. It's just that easy to stop this nonsense. There doesn't have to be a clear winner or loser, just cease. He does it every week man, just let it go.

I feel like the term "deuteragonist" is a lot more applicable for the house leaders than simply just being part of the "supporting cast".

The only reason I learned the word "deuteragonist" is because of a ****ing Buzz Lightyear wikipedia page. I don't know why I remember, but I just do.

 

[Ben Holt]

I'm just going to finish this with one final analogy. If it doesn't stick, then **** it. I'm not gonna waste any more time heated over Fire Emblem.

In the 2008 movie, The Dark Knight, Heath Ledger's Joker was critically acclaimed from film critics and comic nerds alike. He was the star of the show for them.
But to the millions of "normies", Batman was the star of the show. Normies outnumber core fans significantly.

God I love a woman who can beat my ass.

Damn. You were one word away from making this mean something COMPLETELY different.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Damn. You were one word away from making this mean something COMPLETELY different.

One letter too. *wiggles eyebrows*

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Ben Holt

Define "side character".

I've been reading posts of yours here today on previous pages as well as this current one, and I still don't get exactly what your definition of it is.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm just going to finish this with one final analogy. If it doesn't stick, then **** it. I'm not gonna waste any more time heated over Fire Emblem.

In the 2008 movie, The Dark Knight, Heath Ledger's Joker was critically acclaimed from film critics and comic nerds alike. He was the star of the show for them.
But to the millions of "normies", Batman was the star of the show. Normies outnumber core fans significantly.

That implies Joker could be the protagonist of Batman when he clearly wasn't. In Three Houses, all three lords can be the main protagonist. There are multiple stories in Three Houses; not some grand big one that defines everybody.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The irony of Sakurai avoiding Chrom in Sm4sh due to his similarities to Ike, only to slap Lucina in specifically because she's similar to Marth still makes me smile.

Sakurai and Nintendo: We couldn't add Rex nor Spring Man into Base due to bad timing.

*Proceeds to add*

 

[Glaciacott]

it's also still ignoring the core flaw that apparently he knows what "normies" want while the rest of us are apparently oblivious to the desires of the masses. He alone voices the will of the people.

 

[Deleted member]

Anyway, despite being from Final Fantasy VII please add Tifa. She’s ****ing cool, beats ass, and is a really great character.

Fight me.

God I love a woman who can beat my ass.

I would love to see Tifa or Sephiroth in too!

Both could have some fun movesets!

 

[Will]

In the 2008 movie, The Dark Knight, Heath Ledger's Joker was critically acclaimed from film critics and comic nerds alike. He was the star of the show for them.
But to the millions of "normies", Batman was the star of the show. Normies outnumber core fans significantly.

Holy **** dude, you can't be real with this. You got a fedora? You think we live in a society? That's a terrible note to go off of, some incel-in-the-making type ****. I don't care if I'm infracted, the hilarity in this is astounding.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Real talk, if Tingle somehow comes to Smash, I want him to represent his series. Like how Donkey Kong and Yoshi are treated as seperate series despite coming from Mario.

...Donkey Kong didn't come from Mario. Mario came from Donkey Kong. They crossover a lot, and DK characters do appear in Mario side games too.

But I agree with your point.

 

[Ben Holt]

I would love to see Tifa or Sephiroth in too!

Both could have some fun movesets!

More Final Fantasy characters A-OK with me!

Ben Holt

Define "side character".

I've been reading posts of yours here today on previous pages as well as this current one, and I still don't get exactly what your definition of it is.

Just so you know, I've cut off the arguments, but since it's a simple question: A side character is any character that is not the main character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai and Nintendo: We couldn't add Rex nor Spring Man into Base due to bad timing.

*Proceeds to add*

...So it had good timing?

Pretty simple as that. It's about when the game is being developed around the same time as Ultimate, to provide good timing. Rex nor ARMS character had that factor.

 

[Lamperouge]

Sakurai and Nintendo: We couldn't add Rex nor Spring Man into Base due to bad timing.

*Proceeds to add*

He wasn't wrong, tho.

...It was bad timing for Rex and Spring Man because a new FE protag was right around the corner and you gotta prioritize that ****.

 

[Idon]

-Actual image of Byleth's sheer popularity being factored for Smash:

[Removed for Inappropriate Content]