Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

It wasn't. It was after his outright presentation. Byleth was recorded at about the same time. They were still in development and wouldn't release with Byleth either if they were just outright leaked. The timeframe favors it to be ready for CP6 instead.


I'm 90% now. But that's due to the video stuff. The rest really doesn't strike me as a good reason to dismiss it. Timeframes actually show a good reason for the costumes not to release yet. I wonder if ARMS was outright delayed too, which just makes it all worse.

No it wasn't, a sticking point people had for Cacomallow was how it didn't try to show Terry or his stage, Cacomallow popped up a few days before Terry's presentation, google tells me Terry's presentation was 6/11, Cacomallow's earliest google video result was 3/11

 

[Rie Sonomura]

No it wasn't, a sticking point people had for Cacomallow was how it didn't try to show Terry or his stage, Cacomallow popped up a few days before Terry's presentation, google tells me Terry's presentation was 6/11, Cacomallow's earliest google video result was 3/11

... for a second I thought you meant June 11 and March 11 until I remembered Europe and Japan switch the day and month placement in numerical dates

but yeah that placement makes sense

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I would be incredibly surprised if someone pulled the "literal who" card with Dragonborn. Skyrim is the 20th best-selling game of all time and is often reference in mainstream pop culture. I could see how someone missed Joker, seeing how his game sold a comparatively small 3 million copies and was mostly talked about in hardcore gaming circles, but not knowing Dragonborn is more like not knowing Ryu or Cloud.

Do not underestimate people and either trolling or ignorance. If this DLC cycle says anything, literally everyone is a "Literal Who" to some group of the fanbase.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If we see no Cacomallow in June. I think we can safely say its fake by then.

 

[RocksteadyBebop]

https://m.imgur.com/a/0Dx0Rh7

Well...you tired at least.

 

[Trevenant]

https://m.imgur.com/a/0Dx0Rh7

This reminds me of a leak I have been sitting on for a while. The attached image is a leaked picture of the ARMS rep. As both these leaks are obviously legit, we are obviously getting a composite character

(In all seriousness that leak looks like it's just using the ARMS model of Min Min just photoshopped into a blank ultimate css)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They'll probably end up butchering it with some awful remix like the songs from Banjo-Kazooie, but I hope they just use the original, or get C418 (the original composer of the song) to remix it.

I thought the Banjo-Kazooie remixes were pretty good Main Theme not withstanding. Gobi Desert in particular is a bop.

But yeah, like Main Theme (Banjo-Kazooie), I don't think Sweden would work with a faster tempo. I hope they leave it alone.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Yes, that Min-Min render looks so great and...in such a...dynamic pose like...the rest of the roster.

Weak leak for sure.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No it wasn't, a sticking point people had for Cacomallow was how it didn't try to show Terry or his stage, Cacomallow popped up a few days before Terry's presentation, google tells me Terry's presentation was 6/11, Cacomallow's earliest google video result was 3/11

3 days apart doesn't mean much???

Cause that's my point. It couldn't be ready by Byleth if it wasn't by Terry. Again, they were recorded days apart.

Also, we know for a fact leaks don't show everything all the time. All they recorded was one small bit to leak. It doesn't matter if they know more information or not. They can choose not to actually leak more information. That doesn't matter in the end. We already knew that when Smash 4's Roster got leaked in parts to begin with. Small bits at a time. Leaks aren't "all or nothing" information and shouldn't be ever taken as such. "Why didn't he leak that bit?" is a case of "why did he have to? He can show off one small piece and leave it at that." That's how leaks are most of the time, with very little shown. This is a run of the mill leak design that most leakers do to begin with. Besides that, they might not have known anything beyond that or never attempted to record anything else. It's easier to get caught otherwise.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yes, that Min-Min render looks so great and...in such a...dynamic pose like...the rest of the roster.

Weak leak for sure.

Also why is it so zoomed up? Suspicious if you ask me...More the reason to say its fake.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Also why is it so zoomed up? Suspicious if you ask me...More the reason to say its fake.

I mean aren’t they all zoomed in?

some of the poses are undynamic too like Ryu, Chrom, Corrin...

My issue is that it looks a lot like this, even though Min Min’s looking in a different direction:

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I mean aren’t they all zoomed in?

some of the poses are undynamic too like Ryu, Chrom, Corrin...

My issue is that it looks a lot like this, even though Min Min’s looking in a different direction:

Yep definitely fake. Looks exactly the same.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My issue is that it looks a lot like this, even though Min Min’s looking in a different direction:

Spoiler: Image

They look toward their opponent on that screen if you leave them there. That's probably the moment they took the screenshot.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

3 days apart doesn't mean much???

Cause that's my point. It couldn't be ready by Byleth if it wasn't by Terry. Again, they were recorded days apart.

Also, we know for a fact leaks don't show everything all the time. All they recorded was one small bit to leak. It doesn't matter if they know more information or not. They can choose not to actually leak more information. That doesn't matter in the end. We already knew that when Smash 4's Roster got leaked in parts to begin with. Small bits at a time. Leaks aren't "all or nothing" information and shouldn't be ever taken as such. "Why didn't he leak that bit?" is a case of "why did he have to? He can show off one small piece and leave it at that." That's how leaks are most of the time, with very little shown. This is a run of the mill leak design that most leakers do to begin with. Besides that, they might not have known anything beyond that or never attempted to record anything else. It's easier to get caught otherwise.

My point was that you were outright wrong.


Apparantly costumes that supposedly were already in the playtesting phase couldn't have been finished in 2 months, makes sense to me despite presentations showing 2 month old footage of more complex **** than characters.


Except that the fact that the leaker chose to only show stuff that people ended up recreating with jiggle physics and all in a week instead of something that would take significantly more effort to fake means it's completely fair play to question why it we literally only got 2 mii costume leaks

 

[DarthEnderX]

The update can say whatever it want, most of the content Terry came with was SNK games in general, not Fatal Fury.

Most of the update is not the new character. The new character was Fatal Fury. Terry is the main character of Fatal Fury. There is NO special case being applied here.

 

[SNEKeater]

About Rayman... I mean, he's cool, he's decently known among the more dedicated community of videogames, and I could see why people think of him as Ubi's mascot. But yeah, Rayman isn't precisely one of the IPs they're pushing a lot, and that's not new, that's Rayman's situation since 5? years or so. In any case, Ubisoft has multiple IPs that are more popular and relevant than Rayman, including of course Assassin's Creed.

I'm the first one who would like to have Rayman, and he would be my first pick when it comes to Ubisoft. Personally I wouldn't be interested in any other character from them, probably because I'm not really a fan of most of their IPs, but that doesn't mean I think Rayman's is some sort of videogame legend as likes of Megaman or Crash (and of course Mario or Sonic are at another level)... the only reason I think people calls him Ubi's mascot is because he's their most popular character when it comes to cartoony IPs, that's it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My point was that you were outright wrong.

Except I wasn't. You're reading it wrong. Cacomallow was shown off 3 days before Terry's presentation. Not 3 months. Byleth and Terry's presentation were literally recorded days apart. Again, why on earth would it be ready by Byleth if it wasn't ready by Terry's? It's already in the playtesting phase by then. But since Byleth's recording is done, they can't add the costumes to Byleth's selection because they were clearly not done by that point.

Apparantly costumes that supposedly were already in the playtesting phase couldn't have been finished in 2 months, makes sense to me despite presentations showing 2 month old footage of more complex **** than characters.

No, what it shows is they were in playtesting phase at that time at best, not that they were hyper ready already. Of course, that could be them showing off a leak at the right time too. It's not strong evidence either way. It's actually pretty weak and can't prove anything on either end.

Except that the fact that the leaker chose to only show stuff that people ended up recreating with jiggle physics and all in a week instead of something that would take significantly more effort to fake means it's completely fair play to question why it we literally only got 2 mii costume leaks

Still doesn't matter in that regard. They can show what they want and still be real. Leaks almost never show everything, and not's just cause they don't know everything. It's to avoid getting caught by giving tiny bits.

The only good point so far has been the lack of a video take down cause they're no reasonable explanation for it. Nothing makes any remote sense at that point to consider the lack of the take down in its favor.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I personally maintain that if Cacomallow were real they would have dropped with Byleth, as the original Cacomallow video was I think some time after Terry’s reveal. And nothing.

I don't know...

I assume that Mii costumes are much easier to make than characters, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have a bunch sitting around now just waiting for their turn. And most of the Mii waves have had something to do with each other: Joker brought a bunch of Persona costumes, and the (really sad) Sonic Mii costumes, ostensibly since they're all SEGA; Hero came with a bunch of DQ stuff; and Terry came with a bunch of fighting game stuff. Banjo and Byleth are the odd ones, since the Mii costumes were unrelated to the character - they both got some Mega Man stuff, both got a premium Mii (Sans and Cuphead), and then Byleth got the Ubisoft ones as well.

I could believe that, if this is legit, that both are being held. Mallow could easily come with Geno (as a character or the returning Mii costume) in a set. Caco could come with whatever Bethesda's doing, which again doesn't necessarily need to be playable if Altaïr is any indication).

One thing that Ultimate hasn't done is to release a Mii wave by itself. They did that in Sm4sh, but Ultimate has released the Miis with a character. So Springo/Ribbons/Min/whoever will be the next round of Mii costumes as well, and then we can see - a few ARMS Miis are already in, so it's likely they could put a SMRPG or Bethesda pack in with ARMS, or if Squeenix or Beth has a character in the pipeline, they could be held for then as well. Don't forget, they still also have all of the Namco Miis that never got ported either, so we could see a pack or character of those as well.

 

[GoodGrief741]

But this is just the same argument used against Banjo & Kazooie though. Being the higher grossing franchise doesn't mean Assassin's Creed would take priority over Rayman as the character Ubisoft would choose.

I wasn't speaking to Rayman's chances at all, I was just saying that he isn't Ubisoft's mascot.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't know...

I assume that Mii costumes are much easier to make than characters, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have a bunch sitting around now just waiting for their turn. And most of the Mii waves have had something to do with each other: Joker brought a bunch of Persona costumes, and the (really sad) Sonic Mii costumes, ostensibly since they're all SEGA; Hero came with a bunch of DQ stuff; and Terry came with a bunch of fighting game stuff. Banjo and Byleth are the odd ones, since the Mii costumes were unrelated to the character - they both got some Mega Man stuff, both got a premium Mii (Sans and Cuphead), and then Byleth got the Ubisoft ones as well.

I could believe that, if this is legit, that both are being held. Mallow could easily come with Geno (as a character or the returning Mii costume) in a set. Caco could come with whatever Bethesda's doing, which again doesn't necessarily need to be playable if Altaïr is any indication).

One thing that Ultimate hasn't done is to release a Mii wave by itself. They did that in Sm4sh, but Ultimate has released the Miis with a character. So Springo/Ribbons/Min/whoever will be the next round of Mii costumes as well, and then we can see - a few ARMS Miis are already in, so it's likely they could put a SMRPG or Bethesda pack in with ARMS, or if Squeenix or Beth has a character in the pipeline, they could be held for then as well. Don't forget, they still also have all of the Namco Miis that never got ported either, so we could see a pack or character of those as well.

Worth also pointing out that Terry’s Fighting Game costumes included Jacky and Akira but not Heihachi. When Ryu was revealed for 4, those three came with him. I think they may save Heihachi’s costume (as well as Lloyd’s and Gil’s) for a new Namco rep. As for why Hero didn’t include Geno, it didn’t include Chocobo either. It was all exclusively DQ stuff.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

But this is just the same argument used against Banjo & Kazooie though. Being the higher grossing franchise doesn't mean Assassin's Creed would take priority over Rayman as the character Ubisoft would choose.

Ubisoft doesn't either. Nintendo does. Unless Nintendo has a very wide sweeping mandate for a "Ubisoft character", they're going to approach Ubisoft with a specific fighter and franchise in mind and if they don't get them, there's a good chance there just won't be a Ubisoft fighter in Smash because if they're going for someone like Rayman, they may not have any interest in someone like Ezio. Alternatively, if they want Assassin's Creed but can't get it, Rayman may not be a particularly enticing alternative.

 

[Droodle]

Someone finally said it.

Even back in the Sm4sh days, every time Rayman came up on the RTC thread, everyone would go on and on about Rayman being Ubisoft's mascot, and all I could think of was "Who?" Rayman is nowhere near the level of Crash or Mega Man. And none of them can even hope to be on the 'mascot' level of Mario or Sonic.

I feel like this forum is really good at assuming that everyone has the same relationship to video games as them. "What, you don't know this character from a single console or who was locally popular 30 years ago? They're from a critically acclaimed game, so only losers who live under a rock wouldn't know them!"

If the Assassin's Creed series, which is and has been Ubi's big series for a while now, got a character, though, it'd have to be Ezio. It's weird that Altaïr got the Mii costume considering that AC is one of those few series where the first protagonist is actually pretty forgettable relative to the second one. AC has even done a crossover (sadly it was in Soul Calibur V, which was a disappointment for so many reasons), and Ezio was the character they picked. If I had to pick an Ubi character, I'd want Ezio hands down. But Ubi also has the Rabbids that they've been pushing and have even crossed over with Mario - but those got Mii costumes already as well.

I think Rayman would be the next in line for an Ubi character with the Mii costumes they've already added in, but that does beg the question of why the Ubi costumes didn't come with the Ubi character...

I get what your saying, but objectively speaking Rayman is around the same level of popularity as Megaman. As far as I can tell the Rayman games have sold around 26 million while Mega man is around 35 million but keep in mind that Mega-man has dozens of more games comparitively. Crash exceeds both of their popularity at around 50 million sales. The thing that hits Rayman's chances is that the series is not a huge success in Japan where Mega-man and Crash are more iconic. He's in asimilar position as Doomguy, because he's decently iconic in the West; but not so much in Japan.

I think what boosts Rayman's chances in comparison to other Ubi reps is that they have gone on the record saying that they want/wish for Rayman to be playable in Smash, and his popularity within the Smash fanbase is decently high too. That alone gives him a big enough push to be considered the main pick for Ubisoft. It's kind of like how Banjo was pushed hard by Microsoft, because I doubt Banjo would have been their first pick over character's like Steve or Chief if Microsoft continued to ignore Banjo.

Personally, I'm more on the side of Rayman being in this FP (although still pretty skeptical) but that's mainly because of the fact that they gave both AC and Rabbids Mii costumes, while Rayman in turn didn't get anything (despite being "big" enough to at least get a costume). The Rayman series itself has enough characters to make a full costume pack dedicated to it, so I'm guessing that's what he'll come with if he does get in.

It wasn't. It was after his outright presentation. Byleth was recorded at about the same time. They were still in development and wouldn't release with Byleth either in this case. The timeframe favors it to be ready for CP6 instead. Well, if it's real(which is probably not the case).


I'm 90% now. But that's due to the video stuff. The rest really doesn't strike me as a good reason to dismiss it. Timeframes actually show a good reason for the costumes not to release yet. I wonder if ARMS was outright delayed too, which just makes it all worse.

The main reason why I think the Mii costume leak is fake (on top of the video not being taken down) is the sheer amount of coincidences it has:
1. Both costumes are in development despite being 8 months away from being revealed at the earliest (they also look very close to completion, but with coding you never know).
2. Yet despite to having access to content this far in development, the leaker cannot showcase Terry, Byleth, or at the very least Terry or Byleth's stages.
3. If we assume that this was taken after Hero's release (as DQ was the latest stage) that means that these costumes have been in the waiting room for nearly a year by the time of their release.
4. No other costumes related to Terry or Byleth's release were shown. Just these two costumes of two conveniently highly requested fighter's.

and finally,
5. Nintendo is a known stickler for leaks. I find it hard to believe that someone that isn't some highly trusted individual can gain access to content this far in development without Nintendo at least checking to make sure that said person has no camera's or the like on them. I know Ken leaked because of pics, but 1. Ken was an echo, 2. it was a picture and not several seconds of video, 3. Ken showcased a full on debug menu, and 4. Ken was leaked during base and not DLC.

If this leak is real, then it leads me to believe that this content wasn't high up in Nintendo's list of security for "upcoming content". Which leads me to believe that neither Doomguy or Geno are playable and will have other roles (likely enhanced costumes). I just cannot fathom why Nintendo would be careless enough to test Mii costumes so far away from release, if they really are associated with a major character dropping. That seems like something you would want to test, when the reveal of the character is around the corner and not nearly 3/4ths-1 year from reveal.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yes, that Min-Min render looks so great and...in such a...dynamic pose like...the rest of the roster.

And that model is definitely...one that would be used in a CG render and not gameplay. Definitely.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The main reason why I think the Mii costume leak is fake (on top of the video not being taken down) is the sheer amount of coincidences it has:
1. Both costumes are in development despite being 8 months away from being revealed at the earliest (they also look very close to completion, but with coding you never know).

If they were only close to completion then, they would not have been ready by Byleth long enough to showcase it there. They were never ready by the time of the recording as is. At least with the leak's own timing. There's little reason to assume they were ready beyond "but why not".

2. Yet despite to having access to content this far in development, the leaker cannot showcase Terry, Byleth, or at the very least Terry or Byleth's stages.

If you think people are able to leak everything all the time, you're sorely mistaken. It makes more sense to not leak as much as possible to avoid getting caught. This is why it's a poor reason. Leaks almost never show off everything.

3. If we assume that this was taken after Hero's release (as DQ was the latest stage) that means that these costumes have been in the waiting room for nearly a year by the time of their release.

It was probably taken about near when Terry's presentation was shown off to us, instead. About when it actually leaked.

4. No other costumes related to Terry or Byleth's release were shown. Just these two costumes of two conveniently highly requested fighter's.

Too much conjecture. Patterns don't really exist. They had no reason to show off more because either they didn't have more, didn't want to, or was avoiding being caught. Just posting one video is less to be caught.

and finally,
5. Nintendo is a known stickler for leaks. I find it hard to believe that someone that isn't some highly trusted individual can gain access to content this far in development without Nintendo at least checking to make sure that said person has no camera's or the like on them. I know Ken leaked because of pics, but 1. Ken was an echo, 2. it was a picture and not several seconds of video, 3. Ken showcased a full on debug menu, and 4. Ken was leaked during base and not DLC.

This is the only honest good point. There's zero legitimate explanation for it. They don't ignore leaks. And why it's almost effectively confirmed fake.

If this leak is real, then it leads me to believe that this content wasn't high up in Nintendo's list of security for "upcoming content". Which leads me to believe that neither Doomguy or Geno are playable and will have other roles (likely enhanced costumes). I just cannot fathom why Nintendo would be careless enough to test Mii costumes so far away from release, if they really are associated with a major character dropping. That seems like something you would want to test, when the reveal of the character is around the corner and not nearly 3/4ths-1 year from reveal.

Or, you know, it wasn't even ready by Byleth either. It was going to be ready by Terry and Byleth, or neither. There's no reason to believe the content started almost a year ago before its release. Maybe a month at most if lucky. The earliest it could be is when Nintendo talked to Id Software about getting Doomslayer. But that's not when it's the earliest to be even slightly ready by. It's clear they were absolutely not ready in time for Byleth's presentation at best. Also, Id specifically approached Nintendo. This is interesting, cause with Nintendo saying no to Doomslayer, that has nothing to do with any other content to begin with. Getting their other Doom Mascot in would be fine.

Sans was actually tested within over 6 months from his release. It's clear timeframes aren't that important when we know it can take a long time to release.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Except I wasn't. You're reading it wrong. Cacomallow was shown off 3 days before Terry's presentation. Not 3 months. Byleth and Terry's presentation were literally recorded days apart. Again, why on earth would it be ready by Byleth if it wasn't ready by Terry's? It's already in the playtesting phase by then. But since Byleth's recording is done, they can't add the costumes to Byleth's selection because they were clearly not done by that point.


No, what it shows is they were in playtesting phase at that time at best, not that they were hyper ready already. Of course, that could be them showing off a leak at the right time too. It's not strong evidence either way. It's actually pretty weak and can't prove anything on either end.


Still doesn't matter in that regard. They can show what they want and still be real. Leaks almost never show everything, and not's just cause they don't know everything. It's to avoid getting caught by giving tiny bits.

The only good point so far has been the lack of a video take down cause they're no reasonable explanation for it. Nothing makes any remote sense at that point to consider the lack of the take down in its favor.

I never said 3 months, YOU said Terry's presentation was already shown when Cacomallow appeared, therefore, YOU WERE WRONG.

This assumes that the characters getting shown off by Sakurai himself is the same timeframe they show off the mii costumes in edited trailers, which you do not know nor can you prove it so it's a complete nonargument.

Smash has shown that characters are generally in presentable states 2 months before release, playtesting is literally one of the last things done in development, you telling me that this competent dev team simply couldn't get 2 costumes working after at least 3 months of playtesting? If you want to create more fake evidence about how you actually know for a fact what's happening, be my guest, but I won't entertain you if you pull that again

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Ubisoft doesn't either. Nintendo does. Unless Nintendo has a very wide sweeping mandate for a "Ubisoft character", they're going to approach Ubisoft with a specific fighter and franchise in mind and if they don't get them, there's a good chance there just won't be a Ubisoft fighter in Smash because if they're going for someone like Rayman, they may not have any interest in someone like Ezio. Alternatively, if they want Assassin's Creed but can't get it, Rayman may not be a particularly enticing alternative.

Look, all I'm saying is that being a higher selling franchise doesn't mean Assassin's Creed take priority over a lower selling franchise like Rayman and Banjo & Kazooie is proof of that.

But that wasn't what GoodGrief741 was trying to argue against so I'll just drop this now.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Look, all I'm saying is that being a higher selling franchise doesn't mean Assassin's Creed take priority over a lower selling franchise like Rayman and Banjo & Kazooie is proof of that.

But that wasn't what GoodGrief741 was trying to argue against so I'll just drop this now.

It's not that simple. Nintendo chose Banjo & Kazooie because they also teamed up with Microsoft over Minecraft.

If you compare the events, it does mean Rayman could be in a good position. Though I do agree it's strange to have most of the costumes he could come with gone, but we also see Capcom costumes with non-Capcom characters, etc. There's kind of no pattern. That, and there's at least two easy Ubisoft costumes now(Globox and Ezio) to give with Rayman. Among other costumes. Could be a good place for Geno too, for instance(not saying he should be a costume, heh).

 

[GoodGrief741]

As far as I can tell the Rayman games have sold around 26 million while Mega man is around 35 million but keep in mind that Mega-man has dozens of more games comparitively.

Though from what I've researched from Ubisoft's sales reports, it would appear that the 26mil number is counting the Rabbids games. The mainline Rayman games have sold around 1mil each.

Regardless of sales, I don't think it's fair to say that Rayman is comparable in popularity and recognizability to Mega Man and Doomguy. Mega Man was one of the biggest deals on the NES and SNES, whereas Doom pretty much kickstarted a genre and its studios dominance within it. Maybe Rayman reached those levels in Europe, I wouldn't know, but his impact isn't the same as those in America.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Though from what I've researched from Ubisoft's sales reports, it would appear that the 26mil number is counting the Rabbids games. The mainline Rayman games have sold around 1mil each.

Regardless of sales, I don't think it's fair to say that Rayman is comparable in popularity and recognizability to Mega Man and Doomguy. Mega Man was one of the biggest deals on the NES and SNES, whereas Doom pretty much kickstarted a genre and its studios dominance within it. Maybe Rayman reached those levels in Europe, I wouldn't know, but his impact isn't the same as those in America.

Which goes to show how big the Rabbids are too. It's no wonder they got their own spin-off, merchandise, and show.

How much have the specific Rabbids games(that aren't part of Rayman) sold? That would include Kingdom Battle, to be clear.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Which goes to show how big the Rabbids are too. It's no wonder they got their own spin-off, merchandise, and show.

How much have the specific Rabbids games(that aren't part of Rayman) sold? That would include Kingdom Battle, to be clear.

I don't know if Kingdom Battle is counted, but if memory serves me, last sales report they gave was 21 million or so.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't know if Kingdom Battle is counted, but if memory serves me, last sales report they gave was 21 million or so.

Yeahhhhhhh, doesn't surprise me.

It's part of why I wanted a playable Rabbid, mostly cause it's treated as pretty damn big. That, and I like 'em more than Rayman in the end.

They're all awesome characters, that said~

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm not sure that these ideas would be any fun for players since it keeps them from playing the game until they do a button check. The second one is also impossible since you can't show any information to the Zoroark player without showing everyone due to you all sharing a screen.

I do think there is a way to do it though. Attaching the ability to Pokémon Change would be the easiest way since that's how it works in the games. The question then becomes who would you pair up with Zoroark, and who would be their trainer. If you wanted Zoroark to be a solo fighter though you'd have to go back to the drawing board. Perhaps instead of disguising itself as another character it could use its illusions to mask its attacks. Like Shadow Sneak, but you either send out a harmless illusion that looks like its attacking or do a lunging attack while leaving behind an illusion that stays in place.

Another option- on the character select screen- if someone selects Zoroark, then the game is programmed not to show it. Opponents would see the slot hovered over- and then the AI would take over and move the character to another screen.

This is only a fun gimmick. It would just be for the start of the match, a slight fakeout, which suits the means of the Pokemon very well.
It would be useless in competitive- because, while it could screw up counter pick, most competitors know the mains of their opponents at higher end play.

It's the kind of out-of-the-box-thinking that I would expect from Sakurai.

Or just modify slightly. What I said before-

I think they could find a way to do it.
For example, in group smash- they would make the character identical to another, so which person is the real player two would be unknown.

Or maybe it starts each match where everyone on the field looks like one character, and only the Zoroark knows the one thats them.
It would take a moment to figure out for each player.


I think there is an ability to keep playing with this and give the homefield startup advantage of a real world mind-screw illusion.

Okay. Then instead of needing a button to be pressed- the illusion only lasts until the character moves. Just a half a second delay in the brains of the users.
That's really all it ever did.

 

[Cosmic77]

...Wait, we're still discussing CacoMallow?

Look, we already know that Mallow isn't being released alongside the ARMS character if we're to assume Geno is playable. That would mean F7 is the absolute earliest we would get this alleged Mallow costume. I'll guess and say June is when we'll know who F7 is, so that's a seven month gap between the leak and the reveal of the character. That's already pushing it.

After F7 though? We're straw-grasping. How likely is it that Sakurai would make the Mii costumes in November 2019 at the latest for the pass's third character when production on the very first DLC character likely just started?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I could’ve sworn part of why Banjo & Kazooie were added was because of Rarest Wares taking action while Mushroom Plumbing Co. and Computer Overlords’s LetterBox Studios were bonding over Steve’s Raft-Mincing Quest. I’m not sure Ubisoft necessarily has to wait on Nintendo or couldn’t offer Rayman, however tbh they’d likely be happy with Ezio or whoever too so idk nvm.

So I listened to some Minecraft music recently, and it really helped calm me down. It's probably the first series who's music has done that, and I don't even play Minecraft. So, now I have a question: If they add a Minecraft character or stage, how do you think they'll handle Sweden? It seems to be Minecraft's most well known piece, but it's incredibly soothing like The Roost rather than being a good battle theme like they've been trying to go for. Do you think they'll leave it alone or try to make it into something more up beat or have both the original and remixed tracks?

Right now, I'm kinda hoping the original track gets in in this hypothetical scenario.

I think these are two good examples of how Minecraft remixes could work, they keep the main melody slow and nostalgic while adding a unique flair or twist that makes them upbeat:

Here’s a couple more; another version of Sweden and then Cat:
https://youtu.be/zk-DaZ_wB4A
https://youtu.be/HxHrY37psIU

I wouldn’t mind the original tracks either, though; I mean, there’s a few Pikmin tracks and Animal Crossing tracks that don’t really fit fighting...2:00 a.m.’s original arrangement didn’t fit fighting, too.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

It's not that simple. Nintendo chose Banjo & Kazooie because they also teamed up with Microsoft over Minecraft.

If you compare the events, it does mean Rayman could be in a good position. Though I do agree it's strange to have most of the costumes he could come with gone, but we also see Capcom costumes with non-Capcom characters, etc. There's kind of no pattern. That, and there's at least two easy Ubisoft costumes now(Globox and Ezio) to give with Rayman. Among other costumes. Could be a good place for Geno too, for instance(not saying he should be a costume, heh).

Exactly so if all Nintendo cared about was what series was selling the most, why pick Banjo & Kazooie over Minecraft Steve? Because it isn't all about which series sells more so Rayman is just as likely as an Assassin's creed character or something like that. I don't know.

Anyway, I'm interested. What is everyone's thoughts on the possibility of Springtron becoming the ARMS rep? I've seen a few people genuinely wanting Springman so I'm curious to see how differently they are viewed. Would he be like a close enough to you? Would he be a disappointment compared to Springman? Is he the cooler or the lesser version of Springman to you?

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm the opposite. I'd rather it not be Ezio since I've never touched an Assassin's Creed game.

I still think Rayman has a chance since Assassin's Creed doesn't seem to have much traction on Nintendo consoles. The only one that I know of that is on Switch is a port of what seems to have been labeled as "the bad one". Though I suppose that could be the reason for picking Ezio instead as well. *shrugs*

I could see Ezio OR Rayman getting in.
I think what gives Rayman the edge is that his body type is unique enough to inspire some creative liberties of play.
I don't know what Ezio and his series are about well enough to claim this, but I dont think they have the same level of easy inspiration.
Of course, this is speculation, but then again- a no limbed character is still unique in gaming to this day.
We know Sakurai likes a fun silhouette, and a fun body type- many characters' abilities come straight from their physical makeup.
This is how we ended up with

 

[SmashChu]

You mean that it wasn't ready by Byleth? If it's not ready by Byleth then it doesn't matter how long it exists for. It cannot release outside of the next character. The timespan stopped mattering at that point. They aren't "sitting on it". They weren't ready by Byleth.

This is assuming a lot and what I mean by giving it the benefit of the doubt. We saw a video for it back in November and they functioned in game. How the heck is it not ready if it was real?

Those weren't parts of the leak so they don't matter. Again, not how leaks work. They do not always tell everything. They are pieces of the whole thing. But that's also why I lean on it never being more than proof of concept if it's remotely real.

This point makes no sense. So you're saying that whoever took this video knew about these two costumes but didn't have evidence of any other costume that was released earlier? Right now, nothing for this leak has been confirmed true.

To add, all of the DLC is done in stages. Sakurai has alluded to this himself. They would have worked on the other 10 costumes first since those would come out first. Additionally, they will be working of the FP6 costumes before these (as we can assume these would be for FP7 and 8 at the earliest). So they are making these 6-9 months in advance. Why would they waste resources here when they still have three other sets (at most) to work on? This isn't reasonable in the slightest, so it's safe to say that, no, they probably would have seen the other Mii Fighter costumes before this.

This sounds more highly unrealistic. Why would they stop? Yes, sure, they haven't confirmed Echoes are possible either for the pass. But it's pretty reasonable to believe they wouldn't take a whole pack, due to how easy they are. And obviously bonus fighters are highly unrealistic too. There's actually good reasons to believe some of this. The best they said is that the Challenger Packs are following generally the same formula(they didn't actually confirm spirit events either. But it's pretty obvious they won't skip out on them since Spirit Events still exist as is).

Also, they literally made a pre-purchase DLC Mii Fighter costume. They aren't "done" by that alone. There's literally zero reason to believe they're done with costumes when it's literally part of the Pass by design.

Nintendo has not confirmed if they will be doing additional Mii Fighter packs so give any other information the reasonable assumption is its 50/50. You can believe they will do that but it's not confirmed and could go the other way.

As for your "Terry" bit, let's remember one hard thing; this was leaked well after Terry and Byleth were recorded. It's impossible they were ready by Byleth. They can't release them by Byleth. The earliest has to be after Byleth. Mii Costumes have not been DLC beyond being presented with a Challenger Pack. So it was ARMS or nothing with timeframes fully in mind. There wasn't some magical other chance in reality. This doesn't mean they're real, but it takes as long as CP6 comes out at its latest.

As I went over before, the fact the video wasn't taken down is the only strong evidence, and it does soft disconfirm them. Main thing is we can't really say everything would be the same int his situation. There's a lot of weird timing here. It leaked right after a change in management as is for Nintendo. We don't know how NDA's for proof of concept actually work in this case. I still lean on it being "nope, can't leak" too, don't get me wrong. But that's why it's the only good point because I do agree it's strange.

They mentioned in all of these videos that they aren't the final build. The stuff isn't done when they make the video so its a moot point. Also "Weird things" never bear fruit. There have been plenty of "weird things" that people assumed meant something but didn't. More likely these things are people putting pieces that aren't there. Human brains love patterns so it will find connections that aren't there.

Here's the problem. None of the Mii Fighter costumes have leaked before, and here we have a video showing two unannounced costumes that have yet to appear in the game all the while other costumes have been released since. The more logically answer is this video was a mod or clever edit to trick people. It hasn't born fruit and likely never will. I think too often Smash bros fans will believe any little thing. This is the case here. This leaks has gotten nothing right a half a year later. It's more likely than not fake.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Exactly so if all Nintendo cared about was what series was selling the most, why pick Banjo & Kazooie over Minecraft Steve? Because it isn't all about which series sells more so Rayman is just as likely as an Assassin's creed character or something like that. I don't know.

Overall, it's more the costume set up that's odd. Rayman is a popular pick too. So is Ezio. They're not in a worse position than each other at this point.

Anyway, I'm interested. What is everyone's thoughts on the possibility of Springtron becoming the ARMS rep? I've seen a few people genuinely wanting Springman so I'm curious to see how differently they are viewed. Would he be like a close enough to you? Would he be a disappointment compared to Springman? Is he the cooler or the lesser version of Springman to you?

Honestly? 1% if I'm being nice. He's not a main character. He's not a mascot. He's just an extra clone. I doubt anyone(unless they're an alt) getting in over Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, and if I want to push it, Dr. Coyle. The last one is is the biggest character via the story, while there's no real protagonist to speak of.

It's not like the popular characters even came as far as becoming some kind of honorary mascot. Min Min and Twintelle aren't that far ahead to say that. I couldn't see either being the face here.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Or, the alternative that I'd favor...what if it were true, but they put Caco in as a costume with a different Bethesda character. Considering how much of a hive mind the Smash speculation scene is, people like to forget that Bethesda makes more games than just Doom. And while a Doomguy Mii costume may look disproportionate, a Vault Boy Mii costume would look great. And I know precisely who I'd favor as the character... (And for everyone who thinks that they're a literally who, just remember that it's a critically acclaimed game and did show up on Nintendo. You know, the same arguments people use to say why Joker was the most obvious addition...)

You know- I've never thought about Vault Boy as a Mii character+, whatever the consensus is that we have deemed for the Cuphead versions. I really approve of this concept.

I was only addressing the point of how FF being on Nintendo back in the day didn't matter


Also flashbacks to Smash 4 when people argued Pacman wasn't iconic

For what it's worth- when Brawl was released, I sincerely thought the most logical additions to the roster from third parties would be:

1- Pacman
2- Megaman
3- Sonic (who was later announced)
4- Rayman
5- Bomberman
6- Banjo Kazooie

Rayman is an odd character. He never really had a lot of support until they showed off the Rayman trophy in Smash 4. Then everyone assumed he would be in. I think what people forget is that a big reason Rayman is in Smash 4 and Ultimate at all is because Nintendo published Legends in Japan. Same is true of Shovel Knight. I think this is also why his popularity is waning. And you're totally right. Rayman is not their biggest series, or even the most recognizable one. It's Assassin's Creed. It's a far bigger series and its one that people would instantly recognize. Even the Rabbids have taken the "mascot" role from Rayman.

On the costumes, the obvious answer is they were planned separately from Vol 2. A lot of this stuff was likely done during planning. But then it means that Nintendo and Sakurai were fine with just having Ubisoft costumes over having a Ubisoft character,

... are you forgetting about Artsi Omni? He is singularly the biggest reason for the boom in Rayman support.
But that doesn't mean anything; our community isn't known for overly supporting the characters that actually make it in.

#Frogger #LaraCroft #AngryBirds FTW

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know- I've never thought about Vault Boy as a Mii character+, whatever the consensus is that we have deemed for the Cuphead versions. I really approve of this concept.


For what it's worth- when Brawl was released, I sincerely thought the most logical additions to the roster from third parties would be:

1- Pacman
2- Megaman
3- Sonic (who was later announced)
4- Rayman
5- Bomberman
6- Banjo Kazooie

i heckin love fallout, so i'd buy a Vault Boy costume, music track or not (probably not cause most of Fallout's music, at least for 3 onward, is licensed)