Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[YsDisciple]

How would you feel if Crash got in Ultimate... and the next Smash added Pitfall Harry to the roster?

That would feel like closing in on the finish line in Mario Kart and suddenly hear the Blue Shell coming in. It hits, and four other karts pass by the finish line.

 

[Deleted member]

That would feel like closing in on the finish line in Mario Kart and suddenly hear the Blue Shell coming in. It hits, and four other karts pass by the finish line.

That bad?

I honestly would enjoy to see Pitfall, but maybe he isn’t someone you enjoy which is fair.

 

[BZocky]

How would you feel if Crash got in Ultimate... and the next Smash added Pitfall Harry to the roster?

I love the idea of Crash and I've been interested in a retro Atari rep for awhile now (I also like the Pitfall series in particular) so both would be great additions for me at least. Not only personal preference; even though he wasn't created by them, historically Atari collaborated with Nintendo in the early days and helped them to become the giant they are today. He could be like the Indiana Jones of Smash.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That bad?

I honestly would enjoy to see Pitfall, but maybe he isn’t someone you enjoy which is fair.

Hey, as long as they don't reference Super Pitfall, I'd be fine with him.

Besides, The Mayan Adventure has some nice music. And there's the opportunity to make a disguised reference to Uncharted.

 

[YsDisciple]

I retract my previous comments. I'm not too familiar with the character but, I'm sure that if he were to make it into the roster, like every other new guest he'd be quite interesting. I'll admit I have my personal faves but, I'm not against the addition of characters I don't know.

 

[Deleted member]

Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft

Honestly it would ve something like this:

• SNK and KT at the top, they possess some popular and influential franchises. And they have been cooperating with Nintendo for the last couple of years including Warriors entries for Zelda and FE, and the SNK archives that you can find on the Switch eShop since the start of the Switch lifespan. Plus they are Japsn based so stuff is easier to coordinate.
• Ubisoft which has a few Nintendo exclusives to their belt, there has been cooperation with Nintendo in various projects and have popular characters for especulation. Major factor for or against them is that I dunno how the popularity of their franchises stack in Japan against other Western titles. Put them below SNK and KT due to being easier to coordinate with them.
• Bethesda next due to their talks and continuous cooperation with the Switch, just dont put it higher as cooperation is not on the same level as the other companies. Could be exchanged with Ubisoft depending if their franchises are more popular both in East and West.
• Level 5 next (its hard to rank this one and could be higher), while a few of their properties aren't doing as hot anymore they are relatively popular still and a lot of their titles favor Nintendo as their main console but they seem also to be way more popular in Japan in regards with their biggest franchise.
• Activision, has a popular franchise speculated like many other companies but aside from the Bowser & DK crossover I fail to recall any other instance of cooperation with Nintendo as of late apart from multiplats.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly it would ve something like this:

• SNK and KT at the top, they possess some popular and influential franchises. And they have been cooperating with Nintendo for the last couple of years including Warriors entries for Zelda and FE, and the SNK archives that you can find on the Switch eShop since the start of the Switch lifespan. Plus they are Japsn based so stuff is easier to coordinate.
• Ubisoft which has a few Nintendo exclusives to their belt, there has been cooperation with Nintendo in various projects and have popular characters for especulation. Major factor for or against them is that I dunno how the popularity of their franchises stack in Japan against other Western titles. Put them below SNK and KT due to being easier to coordinate with them.
• Bethesda next due to their talks and continuous cooperation with the Switch, just dont put it higher as cooperation is not on the same level as the other companies and . Could be exchanged with Ubisoft depending if their franchises are more popular both in East and West.
• Level 5 next (its hard to rank this one and could be higher), while a few of their properties aren't doing as hot anymore they are relatively popular still and a lot of their titles favor Nintendo as their main console but they seem also to be way more popular in Japan in regards with their biggest franchise.
• Activision, has a popular franchise speculated like many other companies but aside from the Bowser & DK crossover I fail to recall any other instance of cooperation with Nintendo as of late apart from multiplats.

Activision released a Switch bundle for Diablo 3 with a Diablo-themed dock and an amiibo to match with the release.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm pretty sure at this point more people ask "why isn't anyone talking about Soulcalibur??" when Bamco is brought up than actually talk about other Bamco reps

Cries in KOS-MOS

There’s also the Prince from Katamari and Valkyrie but I think they appear as sprites in ‘s taunt

 

[Deleted member]

Activision released a Switch bundle for Diablo 3 with a Diablo-themed dock and an amiibo to match with the release.

Why do I always forget they are fused with Blizzard?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Honestly it would ve something like this:

• SNK and KT at the top, they possess some popular and influential franchises. And they have been cooperating with Nintendo for the last couple of years including Warriors entries for Zelda and FE, and the SNK archives that you can find on the Switch eShop since the start of the Switch lifespan. Plus they are Japsn based so stuff is easier to coordinate.
• Ubisoft which has a few Nintendo exclusives to their belt, there has been cooperation with Nintendo in various projects and have popular characters for especulation. Major factor for or against them is that I dunno how the popularity of their franchises stack in Japan against other Western titles. Put them below SNK and KT due to being easier to coordinate with them.
• Bethesda next due to their talks and continuous cooperation with the Switch, just dont put it higher as cooperation is not on the same level as the other companies. Could be exchanged with Ubisoft depending if their franchises are more popular both in East and West.
• Level 5 next (its hard to rank this one and could be higher), while a few of their properties aren't doing as hot anymore they are relatively popular still and a lot of their titles favor Nintendo as their main console but they seem also to be way more popular in Japan in regards with their biggest franchise.
• Activision, has a popular franchise speculated like many other companies but aside from the Bowser & DK crossover I fail to recall any other instance of cooperation with Nintendo as of late apart from multiplats.

Incidentally, I've heard rumblings about an upcoming Metal Slug game, so maybe that'll be tied into...

Why do I always forget they are fused with Blizzard?

They got Overwatch, too.

When you think about it, Activision sure has a big enough well for noteworthy characters to pool out from without defaulting into Call of Duty.

 

[SKX31]

When you think about it, Activision sure has a big enough well for noteworthy characters to pool out from without defaulting into Call of Duty.

They also have lots of flexibility and can cover a lot of different wants depending on what Nintendo and A-B agree to focus on. While the most likely option is of course Crash, if Nintendo decides to try to expand into more global audiences Blizzard's characters do that pretty well since their big hits are / were popular worldwide for a long time. Especially Korea / China - and the Switch will start selling in China this year. I don't think they'll go with someone like Zeratul or Diablo, but those two are technically possible since their games have Nintendo ports.

We're talking about corporations, I think I'll just let a qoute from CNN Business's article on the Switch's China debut speak for itself:

Investors hope "Nintendo can build a meaningful business" in the country, said Serkan Toto, founder of Tokyo-based consultancy Kantan Games.

The prospect of Nintendo partnering with Tencent to bring franchises like Super Mario Bros. and Pokemon to China's huge mobile gaming market is mouth-watering for investors, he added.

"Nintendo sits on the gaming world's most valuable and unique [intellectual property] treasure trove, and it can unlock it now for Chinese users," said Toto.

Hell, I consider SNK's chances much more likely now given that King of Fighters is really popular in China. So I wouldn't be surprised if a "China character" is included in this Fighter Pass - if Smash also makes its China debut soon enough.

Side note: I don't think Tencent will get a character or content into Smash - at least any time soon. But now they're a possibility, even if just technically.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t know anything about Lloyd, but he seems interesting.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft

Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - Activision - SNK - Bethesda - Ubisoft

I just ordered them by how likely I think their most likely character is, so it's
Ryu Hayabusa - Professor Layton - Crash Bandicoot - Terry Bogard - Doomguy - Ezio Auditore

 

[dezeray112]

Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft

Koei Tecmo and SNK are the two candidates from the list that I feel would be likely to be in the fighters pass for me.

 

[ES. Dinah]

So just something interesting with the Japanese twitter dude. It seems like he's really annoyed about people asking who the fighter is cause he only knows the details Mr. Hasshi gave him. Today he followed up with a repost of his tweet saying thanks!!!! like he's annoyed about people asking him. I just thought it was an interesting detail. He's not posted any new details in days.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Deleted member]

They also have lots of flexibility and can cover a lot of different wants depending on what Nintendo and A-B agree to focus on. While the most likely option is of course Crash, if Nintendo decides to try to expand into more global audiences Blizzard's characters do that pretty well since their big hits are / were popular worldwide for a long time. Especially Korea / China - and the Switch will start selling in China this year. I don't think they'll go with someone like Zeratul or Diablo, but those two are technically possible since their games have Nintendo ports.

We're talking about corporations, I think I'll just let a qoute from CNN Business's article on the Switch's China debut speak for itself:



Hell, I consider SNK's chances much more likely now given that King of Fighters is really popular in China. So I wouldn't be surprised if a "China character" is included in this Fighter Pass - if Smash also makes its China debut soon enough.

Side note: I don't think Tencent will get a character or content into Smash - at least any time soon. But now they're a possibility, even if just technically.

Pardon me, but isn't Minecraft really popular in China? Guess they just lost one Chinese appeal character now.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So just something interesting with the Japanese twitter dude. It seems like he's really annoyed about people asking who the fighter is cause he only knows the details Mr. Hasshi gave him. Today he followed up with a repost of his tweet saying thanks!!!! like he's annoyed about people asking him. I just thought it was an interesting detail. He's not posted any new details in days.

I think Hasshi may be messing with him.

 

[SKX31]

Pardon me, but isn't Minecraft really popular in China? Guess they just lost one Chinese appeal character now.

Wouldn't count Steve out until we know if there's a second Fighter Pass / further DLC or not. And as far as we know, there's nothing certain about it happening or it not happening until Nintendo / Sakurai releases official info.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Wouldn't count Steve out until we know if there's a second Fighter Pass / further DLC or not. And to be honest, there's nothing certain about it happening or it not happening until Nintendo / Sakurai releases official info.

The only clue we've got is the datamine that was found in World of Light's files. While they can be altered, I haven't heard anything about that budging so far.

To think that we're currently in the exact same position as we were, back when people doubted whether Blast Corps and JFG spirit files was proof for a certain pair being in... Well, that and the days before that when people thought the game would have no DLC.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft

Uhhh Bethany Esda > Activision > Koei > Level 5 > SNK > Ubisoft. Aside from Metal Slug (which I'd love to see btw) I don't know enough about SNK to rank it higher and I can't think of any good Ubisoft reps. Rayman and Rabbids have been relegated to spirits and I don't even know if Assassin's Creed is that big outside of the west. I guess Tom Clancy is their other big franchise, but those are book adaptations so that ain't happening.

Right now I'd say Bethany Esda has the best chance, with Activision close behind because of Crash. Between Doomguy and Skyrim dude, they have quite a few likely candidates for Smash, plus they're prolly the closest with Nintendo right now out all the companies listed, so that helps.

As far as the Mii costume theory is concerned, I'll start believing it when we have more solid evidence to go off of. It's really hard to say for sure that it's true when we only have one wave to go off of. That said, I expect one of the last two to be a Capcom/Bamco character while the other is from a new company. I'm just glad all of the prominent rumors got debunked early on so we aren't hyperfixating on one character (Erdrick) for months on end

Just to entertain the idea: assuming the last two characters are Capcom and Bamco, who do you personally want them to represent each company? For Capcom I'd choose Leon or Jill because I've been getting super into Resident Evil lately, and for Bamco I'd like to see Klonoa because I just really wanna see that series make a comeback

 

[Door Key Pig]

The only clue we've got is the datamine that was found in World of Light's files. While they can be altered, I haven't heard anything about that budging so far.

To think that we're currently in the exact same position as we were, back when people doubted whether Blast Corps and JFG spirit files was proof for a certain pair being in... Well, that and the days before that when people thought the game would have no DLC.

Note they never said specifically "there is ONLY going to be these six fighters, not any others" or so. Maybe they could just wait and see if the Pass actually does well before doing other DLC, count all their chickens before they hatch.

Though of course it could also be a case of "holy ****, we need a break from Smash" it's just fun to think about what possibilities could lie with another pass. Maybe another fan request or character from a company that already has DLC (Geno), just EVEN MORE game icons to embellish this special roster, maybe to a level of completeness even. We already have so much, but it's tempting to see the possible extent of this crazy roster.

Perhaps they really could do something like an echo pass as a compromise if they still wanted to support it but had less development available for them (though considering they got fully animated trailers this time, and the base game sold incredibly well, who knows? Maybe they can have a budget)

 

[Polan]

when does sakurai's famitsu column drop? i feel like that will have some interesting tidbits.

 

[SKX31]

The only clue we've got is the datamine that was found in World of Light's files. While they can be altered, I haven't heard anything about that budging so far.

To think that we're currently in the exact same position as we were, back when people doubted whether Blast Corps and JFG spirit files was proof for a certain pair being in... Well, that and the days before that when people thought the game would have no DLC.

Note they never said specifically "there is ONLY going to be these six fighters, not any others" or so. Maybe they could just wait and see if the Pass actually does well before doing other DLC, count all their chickens before they hatch.

That's the take I'm going with here. It wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo and Sakurai had very serious discussions about how to approach the DLC. Thus they probably have at least two options, depending on how far Sakurai wants to push it etc.

A couple additional thoughs:

1. Since DLC for this game is likely to be seen as lucrative; I find it likely that more than 5 companies were at least contacted, and more than 5 third parties likewise considered starting negotations with Nintendo. We know of SEGA / Atlus, Square-Enix, Microsoft and Bethesda so far. If the Devil's Third spirit likewise shows up alongside Blast Corps / JFG, then we can infer that Nintendo didn't just talk to Japanese / Western companies. Wouldn't surprise me when video games are very much a global industry nowadays and the Switch's strong position as a mobile console.

For example: Tencent's willing to bring the Switch, along with Mario and Pokemon games to China. Thus it would not surprise me if they wondered about the game that crosses over Mario and Pokemon, Smash Bros. Tencent's infamously greedy: just look at Arena of Valor. AoV started development because Riot - the devs behind League of Legends and Tencent's subsidiary - didn't think a mobile LoL was feasible at the time. And AoV was conviently released on mobiles first before being ported to the Switch. So even if they chose not to ask Nintendo about Smash I'd not be surprised if the thought about a LoL / AoV character in Smash crossed their minds.*

2. Sakurai was probably not only given a lot of freedom in choosing the characters, but also got the freedom to set the tempo. After the whole IV drip thing, the content's relatively light (One character, one stage, 10ish music tracks, 10ish Spirits every two months if Joker's pack holds up) on purpose. Sakurai was relieved that he could rest on weekends once DLC development started after all - whether he continues after the Pass or not. It depends on if he sees the Pass as a wind down period or as a way to keep working on a game he loves at a less harmful tempo. I won't bet on either since that's impossible to tell really, only he (and possibly Nintendo) knows how far he wants to push Ultimate's DLC.

*(Clean up edit)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That's the take I'm going with here. It wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo and Sakurai had very serious discussions about how to approach the DLC. Thus they probably have at least two options, depending on how far Sakurai wants to push it etc.

A couple additional thoughs:

1. Since DLC for this game is likely to be seen as lucrative; I find it likely that more than 5 companies were at least contacted, and more than 5 third parties likewise considered starting negotations with Nintendo. We know of SEGA / Atlus, Square-Enix, Microsoft and Bethesda so far. If the Devil's Third spirit likewise shows up alongside Blast Corps / JFG, then we can infer that Nintendo didn't just talk to Japanese / Western companies. Wouldn't surprise me when video games are very much a global industry nowadays and the Switch's strong position as a mobile console.

For example: Tencent's willing to bring the Switch, along with Mario and Pokemon games to China. Thus it would not surprise me if they wondered about the game that crosses over Mario and Pokemon, Smash Bros. Tencent's infamously greedy: just look at Arena of Valor. AoV started development because Riot - the devs behind League of Legends and Tencent's subsidiary - didn't think a mobile LoL was feasible at the time. And AoV was conviently released on mobiles first before being ported to the Switch. So even if they chose not to ask Nintendo about Smash I'd not be surprised if the thought about a LoL / AoV character in Smash crossed their minds or even contacted Nintendo about it.

2. Sakurai was probably not only given a lot of freedom in choosing the characters, but also got the freedom to set the tempo. After the whole IV drip thing, the content's relatively light (One character, one stage, 10ish music tracks, 10ish Spirits every two months if Joker's pack holds up) on purpose. Sakurai was relieved that he could rest on weekends once DLC development started after all - whether he continues after the Pass or not. It depends on if he sees the Pass as a wind down period or as a way to keep working on a game he loves at a less harmful tempo. I won't bet on either since that's impossible to tell really, only he (and possibly Nintendo) knows how far he wants to push Ultimate's DLC.

One thing for sure is, character DLC packs are definitely less taxing than working on a full game, or even an extra side story like for Kingdom Hearts III.

That said, pretty good points there.

Note they never said specifically "there is ONLY going to be these six fighters, not any others" or so. Maybe they could just wait and see if the Pass actually does well before doing other DLC, count all their chickens before they hatch.

Though of course it could also be a case of "holy ****, we need a break from Smash" it's just fun to think about what possibilities could lie with another pass. Maybe another fan request or character from a company that already has DLC (Geno), just EVEN MORE game icons to embellish this special roster, maybe to a level of completeness even. We already have so much, but it's tempting to see the possible extent of this crazy roster.

Perhaps they really could do something like an echo pass as a compromise if they still wanted to support it but had less development available for them (though considering they got fully animated trailers this time, and the base game sold incredibly well, who knows? Maybe they can have a budget)

Yeah, that's the thing. Most people act like "oh, so that's all the DLC we're getting", just because it's laid out in a (initial?) structure. Yet with CTR, people have no doubts that more DLC packs are coming after the initial three. Go figure.

It's funny how everything rides on a fifth character showing up around January to find out the game's fate, really...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, character packs in Smash take a lot more work than one in a Racing game. In many Racing games, they're effectively just models that has the same weight class with only animations(not to say a small amount necessarily) and voice acting. Smash has way more to do. Animations and voice acting aside, you have various damage ratios, character intros, full-out balance of many mechanics, probably harder licensing, a full list of music, stages, costumes to consider of when to release them, spirit boards... it's a big difference.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Right, I just find it funny how one game's situation is seen as "no more DLC, let's pack it up" and the other is "everyone is probably here, I can't wait!". And both don't have any officially stated finish lines for them.

Even funnier if it turns out people wound up worrying for nothing in the end anyway.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well, character packs in Smash take a lot more work than one in a Racing game. In many Racing games, they're effectively just models that has the same weight class with only animations(not to say a small amount necessarily) and voice acting. Smash has way more to do. Animations and voice acting aside, you have various damage ratios, character intros, full-out balance of many mechanics, probably harder licensing, a full list of music, stages, costumes to consider of when to release them, spirit boards... it's a big difference.

And even then it seems to be quite costly considering half of Mario Kart 8's DLC consisted of reskins and alternate colors of existing characters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And even then it seems to be quite costly considering half of Mario Kart 8's DLC consisted of reskins and alternate colors of existing characters.

Do you mean that MK DLC was quite costly?

I'm not sure if I read that right.

I do agree that the DLC in MK is underappreciated in that regard. It's not as much work as Smash DLC, but it's still hard work. There wasn't a huge ton of actual unique characters either. I think more than half of it was reskins/recolors too?

 

[Door Key Pig]

Tbf, there may have totally been text stating that there would more Grand Prix stuff in CTR whilst we technically have no guarantee of the sort for other DLC in Smash Ultimate outside of the Fighter's Pass.

 

[Ridrool64]

A lot of the speculation behind a second fighter's pass, as far as I've noticed, seems to be driven by one of three factors.

1. Those who want First-Party DLC characters, as general consensus is that this pass will consist solely of Third-Party franchises. With the exceptions of Porky, Adeleine, and Sylux, they tend to tie into the next point as well.
2. Those who want any of the following: a Spirit, a Mii Costume, a Pokéball Pokémon, a Boss Fight, or an Assist Trophy, as most believe that all characters in this pass will have had no Smash presence prior to this. It's also commonly believed by those who believe that Spirits are consolation prizes for rejected/unnoticed fighters that this would only apply to this pass, and in a second, anything goes (except generally multimedia/sometimes Sony/sometimes Summons and bosses).
3. Those who want a character many consider pseudo-disconfirmed (Arle, Tails, Dr. Eggman, Crono, Lara Croft, Geno, Steve, Master Chief) by competition making it in. While nobody said there won't be two characters in the same pass from the same company, many believe this will be the case at least by coincidence if not a coordinated decision on Sakurai/Nintendo's part.

While objectively speaking, this wouldn't have an impact on the likelihood, I've noticed that many of the people bringing it up have at least one of these three in mind. I, myself, hit all three marks (Arle and Paper Mario). I don't intend to sound impolite or accusing others of pure bias, but much of the speculation surrounding it seems to be driven by an acceptance-denial fusion where people feel they don't have a chance anymore for this pass and want to move onto the next.

Part of it might be because we don't know a massive amount of what Smash 6 will do, and Smash 6 is scary to think about...

• We don't know if the game will have newcomers at all. At least a small group think it'll be a veterans-only club, but with a bunch of the veterans tweaked and changed around to varying levels of recognizability.
• We don't know if third parties will stay. The next game could be first-party only like 64 and Melee.
• We don't know how many veterans will come back. Having another "Everyone is Here!" is not impossible, but many are prepared for cuts ranging from a few to over half the cast being gone/demoted.
• Given that we won't get it on the Switch, we have to wait for until the Switch dies and the next Nintendo console releases. That could be around 2027, a LONG wait, and much longer than any individual game gap (Melee 2001 to Brawl 2008 being the longest at 7 years, but Brawl was intended for an earlier release which would've made it 6.) if we assume Smash 6 is a launch title for the Nintendo Placeholder, and we could be looking at a decade long wait. (And that would be crunching the clock given real life, but that's a topic for another time and place.)
  • It would be extremely surprising if Smash 6 released for Switch, and outright bone-headed if it doesn't at least match Ultimate for features: it's destined to flop otherwise.
• We don't even know if Sakurai will be at the helm. Somebody else with a new vision might have different design choices that would mean our favorites won't happen.

I imagine this is what causes the concept of a second pass to even be in the topic at hand. While I initially believed in a long life cycle for this game's DLC, it seems that Sakurai is the kind of person who would rather just move on to the next game. Combine this with the fact that I very much believe that at least a bunch of the crew is done with working on Smash, given they've been since at least 2012, if not 2011, without any break, and the fact that Nintendo games rarely, if ever, get support beyond the first year, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything past this one.

 

[Deleted member]

Just to entertain the idea: assuming the last two characters are Capcom and Bamco, who do you personally want them to represent each company? For Capcom I'd choose Leon or Jill because I've been getting super into Resident Evil lately, and for Bamco I'd like to see Klonoa because I just really wanna see that series make a comeback

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but for a Capcom newcomer i choose Sir Arthur. Im a boomer/old fart/retro guy when it comes to character choices, and Ghosts n Goblins, while not the most mainstream thing in gaming in the past decade, is still an important gaming franchise and one of Capcom's earlier successes in the medium.

For Namco, im gonna go predictable and say Lloyd. Im more familiar with Yuri Lowell, but i think putting any Tales character over Lloyd is putting any Castlevania character over Simon (echo aside) in my eyes.

A lot of the speculation behind a second fighter's pass, as far as I've noticed, seems to be driven by one of three factors.

1. Those who want First-Party DLC characters, as general consensus is that this pass will consist solely of Third-Party franchises. With the exceptions of Porky, Adeleine, and Sylux, they tend to tie into the next point as well.
2. Those who want any of the following: a Spirit, a Mii Costume, a Pokéball Pokémon, a Boss Fight, or an Assist Trophy, as most believe that all characters in this pass will have had no Smash presence prior to this. It's also commonly believed by those who believe that Spirits are consolation prizes for rejected/unnoticed fighters that this would only apply to this pass, and in a second, anything goes (except generally multimedia/sometimes Sony/sometimes Summons and bosses).
3. Those who want a character many consider pseudo-disconfirmed (Arle, Tails, Dr. Eggman, Crono, Lara Croft, Geno, Steve, Master Chief) by competition making it in. While nobody said there won't be two characters in the same pass from the same company, many believe this will be the case at least by coincidence if not a coordinated decision on Sakurai/Nintendo's part.

While objectively speaking, this wouldn't have an impact on the likelihood, I've noticed that many of the people bringing it up have at least one of these three in mind. I, myself, hit all three marks (Arle and Paper Mario). I don't intend to sound impolite or accusing others of pure bias, but much of the speculation surrounding it seems to be driven by an acceptance-denial fusion where people feel they don't have a chance anymore for this pass and want to move onto the next.

Part of it might be because we don't know a massive amount of what Smash 6 will do, and Smash 6 is scary to think about...

• We don't know if the game will have newcomers at all. At least a small group think it'll be a veterans-only club, but with a bunch of the veterans tweaked and changed around to varying levels of recognizability.
• We don't know if third parties will stay. The next game could be first-party only like 64 and Melee.
• We don't know how many veterans will come back. Having another "Everyone is Here!" is not impossible, but many are prepared for cuts ranging from a few to over half the cast being gone/demoted.
• Given that we won't get it on the Switch, we have to wait for until the Switch dies and the next Nintendo console releases. That could be around 2027, a LONG wait, and much longer than any individual game gap (Melee 2001 to Brawl 2008 being the longest at 7 years, but Brawl was intended for an earlier release which would've made it 6.) if we assume Smash 6 is a launch title for the Nintendo Placeholder, and we could be looking at a decade long wait. (And that would be crunching the clock given real life, but that's a topic for another time and place.)
  • It would be extremely surprising if Smash 6 released for Switch, and outright bone-headed if it doesn't at least match Ultimate for features: it's destined to flop otherwise.
• We don't even know if Sakurai will be at the helm. Somebody else with a new vision might have different design choices that would mean our favorites won't happen.

I imagine this is what causes the concept of a second pass to even be in the topic at hand. While I initially believed in a long life cycle for this game's DLC, it seems that Sakurai is the kind of person who would rather just move on to the next game. Combine this with the fact that I very much believe that at least a bunch of the crew is done with working on Smash, given they've been since at least 2012, if not 2011, without any break, and the fact that Nintendo games rarely, if ever, get support beyond the first year, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything past this one.

This, this so much.

If im honest,, there's going to be a lot of bad blood for the last 2 fighters. It's gonna be worse than Smash Ultimate's Base reveal, becasue this time, no DLC will save anyone, and we will wait until the end of the Switch until any other character gets a chance again Everybody's saying that a RE character or something like that would be on the same level as Banjo for the west or Hero for the east, when it's pretty evident such thing will not happen.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

>last 2 DLC fighters
Fan rule. Lord, I can hardly wait for this year to end...

Do you mean that MK DLC was quite costly?

I'm not sure if I read that right.

I do agree that the DLC in MK is underappreciated in that regard. It's not as much work as Smash DLC, but it's still hard work. There wasn't a huge ton of actual unique characters either. I think more than half of it was reskins/recolors too?

Meanwhile, Mortal Kombat 11's DLC cycle has apparently been grueling for the staff beyond the usual reasons (despite being for only one season of DLC), not the least of which being watching much footage of violence to unhealthy degrees.

At least Sakurai can get to take breathers. PTSD is a lot harder to recover from.

 

[Deleted member]

>last 2 DLC fighters
Fan rule. Lord, I can hardly wait for this year to end...



Meanwhile, Mortal Kombat 11's DLC cycle has apparently been grueling for the staff beyond the usual reasons (despite being for only one season of DLC), not the least of which being watching much footage of violence to unhealthy degrees.

At least Sakurai can get to take breathers. PTSD is a lot harder to recover from.

I think the talk was about the other MK :b

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think the talk was about the other MK :b

Yeah I know, but both have DLC anyway, so.

 

[Deleted member]

>last 2 DLC fighters
Fan rule. Lord, I can hardly wait for this year to end...

I wouldn't be so optmistic if i were you buddy. At best any character after Fighter 5 gets the PP treatment.

 

[Door Key Pig]

A lot of the speculation behind a second fighter's pass, as far as I've noticed, seems to be driven by one of three factors.

1. Those who want First-Party DLC characters, as general consensus is that this pass will consist solely of Third-Party franchises. With the exceptions of Porky, Adeleine, and Sylux, they tend to tie into the next point as well.
2. Those who want any of the following: a Spirit, a Mii Costume, a Pokéball Pokémon, a Boss Fight, or an Assist Trophy, as most believe that all characters in this pass will have had no Smash presence prior to this. It's also commonly believed by those who believe that Spirits are consolation prizes for rejected/unnoticed fighters that this would only apply to this pass, and in a second, anything goes (except generally multimedia/sometimes Sony/sometimes Summons and bosses).
3. Those who want a character many consider pseudo-disconfirmed (Arle, Tails, Dr. Eggman, Crono, Lara Croft, Geno, Steve, Master Chief) by competition making it in. While nobody said there won't be two characters in the same pass from the same company, many believe this will be the case at least by coincidence if not a coordinated decision on Sakurai/Nintendo's part.

While objectively speaking, this wouldn't have an impact on the likelihood, I've noticed that many of the people bringing it up have at least one of these three in mind. I, myself, hit all three marks (Arle and Paper Mario). I don't intend to sound impolite or accusing others of pure bias, but much of the speculation surrounding it seems to be driven by an acceptance-denial fusion where people feel they don't have a chance anymore for this pass and want to move onto the next.

Part of it might be because we don't know a massive amount of what Smash 6 will do, and Smash 6 is scary to think about...

• We don't know if the game will have newcomers at all. At least a small group think it'll be a veterans-only club, but with a bunch of the veterans tweaked and changed around to varying levels of recognizability.
• We don't know if third parties will stay. The next game could be first-party only like 64 and Melee.
• We don't know how many veterans will come back. Having another "Everyone is Here!" is not impossible, but many are prepared for cuts ranging from a few to over half the cast being gone/demoted.
• Given that we won't get it on the Switch, we have to wait for until the Switch dies and the next Nintendo console releases. That could be around 2027, a LONG wait, and much longer than any individual game gap (Melee 2001 to Brawl 2008 being the longest at 7 years, but Brawl was intended for an earlier release which would've made it 6.) if we assume Smash 6 is a launch title for the Nintendo Placeholder, and we could be looking at a decade long wait. (And that would be crunching the clock given real life, but that's a topic for another time and place.)
  • It would be extremely surprising if Smash 6 released for Switch, and outright bone-headed if it doesn't at least match Ultimate for features: it's destined to flop otherwise.
• We don't even know if Sakurai will be at the helm. Somebody else with a new vision might have different design choices that would mean our favorites won't happen.

I imagine this is what causes the concept of a second pass to even be in the topic at hand. While I initially believed in a long life cycle for this game's DLC, it seems that Sakurai is the kind of person who would rather just move on to the next game. Combine this with the fact that I very much believe that at least a bunch of the crew is done with working on Smash, given they've been since at least 2012, if not 2011, without any break, and the fact that Nintendo games rarely, if ever, get support beyond the first year, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything past this one.

Darn, does Sakurai totally have that attitude even with this being the "Ultimate/Special" Smash game? That with the high feat of getting all the characters back they openly admit may not happen again? I mean they'd have to stop somewhere, but they do have something special here they might want to see just a little bit more of the potential of.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It’s best to assume that there’s only going to be this one Fighter Pass. To expect or assume a second one is coming is definitely setting yourself up for disappointment.

Could it happen? Sure. But there is reason to assume it’s not going to, i’d say.

I would love a 2nd season of DLC. But i’m not about to get my hopes up and actively expect a 2nd Pass.

 

[Robertman2]

I have one simple reason as to why I believe there's gonna be a second pass

Money!

I also think it'll be all third parties as well, they're really the only ones who generate excitement beyond the core Smash community

 

[Deleted member]

It’s best to assume that there’s only going to be this one Fighter Pass. To expect or assume a second one is coming is definitely yourself up for disappointment.

Could it happen? Sure. But there is reason to assume it’s not going to, i’d say.

I would love a 2nd season of DLC. But i’m not about to get my hopes up and actively expect a 2nd Pass.

Elaborating what i said earlier, the only way i see ourselves getting anything after Fighter 5 is a character a la PP. No stage, no Spirits included outside of the Classic Mode one, Gameplay only trailer, you have to buy them individually, etc. In that situation, Spirits would mean jack all (because really, someone like Sylux and Porky would be very underwhelming)

The reason i believe in this unlikely-yet-plausible possibility, is because of Mewtwo in Smash 4. If i remember correctly, Mewtwo was chosen as the DLC to test the waters if it was successful or not, a guinea pig if you will. I see PP as a character that was meant for the base roster (it has a Guidance and even a character showcase video like the rest of the base roster which no other DLC newcomer has) repuposed as a gift for earlier buyers and to test the waters NOT for the Fighter Pass (which i believe was going to happen regardless to what happened to PP) but rather for any future Nintendo newcomer. Of course in this situation, they would cut corners. They would choose someone whose moveset would be straightfoward to design and who could use a a character for basis, like Diddy for Dixie or Kirby for Bandanna Dee. Not saying they are gonna be echoes or even semi-clones, but those are characters you could definetly tell they had a basis to work with.

Of course this is just me spitballing. I seriously dobut that those World of Light spots mean anything in the long run.

 

[GoodGrief741]

A lot of the speculation behind a second fighter's pass, as far as I've noticed, seems to be driven by one of three factors.

1. Those who want First-Party DLC characters, as general consensus is that this pass will consist solely of Third-Party franchises. With the exceptions of Porky, Adeleine, and Sylux, they tend to tie into the next point as well.
2. Those who want any of the following: a Spirit, a Mii Costume, a Pokéball Pokémon, a Boss Fight, or an Assist Trophy, as most believe that all characters in this pass will have had no Smash presence prior to this. It's also commonly believed by those who believe that Spirits are consolation prizes for rejected/unnoticed fighters that this would only apply to this pass, and in a second, anything goes (except generally multimedia/sometimes Sony/sometimes Summons and bosses).
3. Those who want a character many consider pseudo-disconfirmed (Arle, Tails, Dr. Eggman, Crono, Lara Croft, Geno, Steve, Master Chief) by competition making it in. While nobody said there won't be two characters in the same pass from the same company, many believe this will be the case at least by coincidence if not a coordinated decision on Sakurai/Nintendo's part.

While objectively speaking, this wouldn't have an impact on the likelihood, I've noticed that many of the people bringing it up have at least one of these three in mind. I, myself, hit all three marks (Arle and Paper Mario). I don't intend to sound impolite or accusing others of pure bias, but much of the speculation surrounding it seems to be driven by an acceptance-denial fusion where people feel they don't have a chance anymore for this pass and want to move onto the next.

Part of it might be because we don't know a massive amount of what Smash 6 will do, and Smash 6 is scary to think about...

• We don't know if the game will have newcomers at all. At least a small group think it'll be a veterans-only club, but with a bunch of the veterans tweaked and changed around to varying levels of recognizability.
• We don't know if third parties will stay. The next game could be first-party only like 64 and Melee.
• We don't know how many veterans will come back. Having another "Everyone is Here!" is not impossible, but many are prepared for cuts ranging from a few to over half the cast being gone/demoted.
• Given that we won't get it on the Switch, we have to wait for until the Switch dies and the next Nintendo console releases. That could be around 2027, a LONG wait, and much longer than any individual game gap (Melee 2001 to Brawl 2008 being the longest at 7 years, but Brawl was intended for an earlier release which would've made it 6.) if we assume Smash 6 is a launch title for the Nintendo Placeholder, and we could be looking at a decade long wait. (And that would be crunching the clock given real life, but that's a topic for another time and place.)
  • It would be extremely surprising if Smash 6 released for Switch, and outright bone-headed if it doesn't at least match Ultimate for features: it's destined to flop otherwise.
• We don't even know if Sakurai will be at the helm. Somebody else with a new vision might have different design choices that would mean our favorites won't happen.

I imagine this is what causes the concept of a second pass to even be in the topic at hand. While I initially believed in a long life cycle for this game's DLC, it seems that Sakurai is the kind of person who would rather just move on to the next game. Combine this with the fact that I very much believe that at least a bunch of the crew is done with working on Smash, given they've been since at least 2012, if not 2011, without any break, and the fact that Nintendo games rarely, if ever, get support beyond the first year, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything past this one.

Great analysis, I'd say the majority of people I've seen fit into the first group and it's going to be interesting to see how people's opinion of third party characters might morph if we only get 5 characters and all third parties. That said...

What kind of dumbass thinks the next Smash won't have newcomers?

>last 2 DLC fighters
Fan rule.

Seems kind of myopic to call that a fan rule. It's literally the only thing we have confirmed, and a second pass is far from a sure bet.

Elaborating what i said earlier, the only way i see ourselves getting anything after Fighter 5 is a character a la PP. No stage, no Spirits included outside of the Classic Mode one, Gameplay only trailer, you have to buy them individually, etc. In that situation, Spirits would mean jack all (because really, someone like Sylux and Porky would be very underwhelming)

The reason i believe in this unlikely-yet-plausible possibility, is because of Mewtwo in Smash 4. If i remember correctly, Mewtwo was chosen as the DLC to test the waters if it was successful or not, a guinea pig if you will. I see PP as a character that was meant for the base roster (it has a Guidance and even a character showcase video like the rest of the base roster which no other DLC newcomer has) repuposed as a gift for earlier buyers and to test the waters NOT for the Fighter Pass (which i believe was going to happen regardless to what happened to PP) but rather for any future Nintendo newcomer. Of course in this situation, they would cut corners. They would choose someone whose moveset would be straightfoward to design and who could use a a character for basis, like Diddy for Dixie or Kirby for Bandanna Dee. Not saying they are gonna be echoes or even semi-clones, but those are characters you could definetly tell they had a basis to work with.

Of course this is just me spitballing. I seriously dobut that those World of Light spots mean anything in the long run.

It would be really stupid to have a character like Piranha Plant to test the waters for first party inclusions. Like, what, would they seriously go 'Oh people didn't buy Piranha Plant, I guess people don't want to buy Nintendo characters'? If they wanted to do that the Plant is a terrible barometer, they would have been much better off selling a character like Toad or a newer rep like Rex.