Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Nquoid

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I could be completely wrong, but to be honest a lot of reasoning for why “Capcom and Namco won’t get the final picks” screams something at me like, “Ken and Incineroar are lame final picks, so it can’t be the last two!”

I don’t know. I’ve been pretty spot on for this game (because of inside info partially, yes, with both Box theory and Grinch), but the recent expectation of Crash largely upshot after Banjo, and suddenly for some folks anything other than Capcom is getting a pick, despite the many series from Capcom completely dwarfing the significance of many of those series suggested.

A ton of people are dismissing Capcom and Namco getting another pick each to close out the pass, but I get a feeling it’s more of “Nah, if Banjo got in then my pick definitely will too.”

Not to say anybody is wrong to think that, but it really makes me think of past instances where the fanbase gets riled up with unchecked expectations, and then gets pissed that it didn’t turn out the way they wanted.

I’m not saying Mii Theory is the be all end all, and it hasn’t been given enough credit to be considered that just yet. However, I think some folks are dismissing it because it’s not what they want.

Be careful with that. That’s all i’m saying.

Even though, really, Capcom and Namco have excellent characters to choose from like stuff from Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Tekken, Tales, etc. So many good options my dudes.
TBH I think a lot of people in this thread are on the right track. We've got a short list of companies/franchises that are very likely, but discussion is going to stagnate until we get something a bit more definitive, which isnt going to happen till at least Hero drops.

Anyone discounting a character from Bamco, Capcom, Toei, Activision, Bethesda or Ubisoft for anything more than personal distaste is being influenced by personal biases.

Spyro was my jam in the 90s. It's why I'd prefer him over Crash. But there are so many franchises with deeper Nintendo ties that I'd want to get in over either first. But discounting Activision because of that as just gut feel would be wrong.
 

cmbsfm

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I'm mainly dismissing it because there's only one data point for it. There's absolutely not enough information to gather from that when it's only happened once.
Especially when not all of the Mii Costumes for Sega came back.
 

AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea

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Why is Resident Evil where it gets out of hand?

After Dragon Quest, it’s one of the mos tinfoiential series ever created, and brings unique settings, characters, and gameplay potential.

It’d be a great pick.
It's less the choice and moreso a "companion" from RE is not even remotely close to being similar as a Slime or Morgana, for reasons I explained in the post you replied to.
I could be completely wrong, but to be honest a lot of reasoning for why “Capcom and Namco won’t get the final picks” screams something at me like, “Ken and Incineroar are lame final picks, so it can’t be the last two!”
Because picking 2 characters solely to lazily resell assets from the previous game is lame.
 
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Deathcarter

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I could be completely wrong, but to be honest a lot of reasoning for why “Capcom and Namco won’t get the final picks” screams something at me like, “Ken and Incineroar are lame final picks, so it can’t be the last two!”

I don’t know. I’ve been pretty spot on for this game (because of inside info partially, yes, with both Box theory and Grinch), but the recent expectation of Crash largely upshot after Banjo, and suddenly for some folks anything other than Capcom is getting a pick, despite the many series from Capcom completely dwarfing the significance of many of those series suggested.

A ton of people are dismissing Capcom and Namco getting another pick each to close out the pass, but I get a feeling it’s more of “Nah, if Banjo got in then my pick definitely will too.”

Not to say anybody is wrong to think that, but it really makes me think of past instances where the fanbase gets riled up with unchecked expectations, and then gets pissed that it didn’t turn out the way they wanted.

I’m not saying Mii Theory is the be all end all, and it hasn’t been given enough credit to be considered that just yet. However, I think some folks are dismissing it because it’s not what they want.

Be careful with that. That’s all i’m saying.

Even though, really, Capcom and Namco have excellent characters to choose from like stuff from Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Tekken, Tales, etc. So many good options my dudes.
Well personally speaking I simply find the mindset that Capcom and Namco must have a character because of this fanbase's obsession with quotas really obnoxious, particularly with Namco. Seriously, one of the characters in the pass is owned by a Western company and another's owned by a small Japanese company that wasn't involved with the base roster which despite being owned by Sega is still credited separately from them. Nintendo and Sakurai aren't limited in terms of potential options in the slightest nor are they unwilling to go for somewhat lesser known picks so the idea that Capcom and Namco are some of the few options available is seriously confounding.
 
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kylexv

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Just take the chairs theory and replace it with supposed hidden things in Banjo and Hero's trailers that hints the last two fighters.
Ridley is going to be in Brawl guys.
I saw him in a cloud in a SSE cutscene. That means he must be in.



But yeah, Trailers and cutscenes do not hint at characters usually.
 

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Scoliosis Jones

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It's less the choice and moreso a "companion" from RE is not even remotely close to being similar as a Slime or Morgana, for reasons I explained in the post you replied to.


Because picking 2 characters solely to lazily resell assets from the previous game is lame.
I mean, I guess If partner theory had any reason to put stock in it then maybe you’d have something.

It isn’t really something to put stock in though.

If you really think the reasons character from Capcom and Namco would be picked simply to resell Mii Fighter costumes, then you’re sorely misunderstanding what Mii Theory is.

Mii Theory is not that the characters were picked to reveal the Mii Fighter costumes. Mii Theory is that the costumes are saved to be revealed in bundles that were only determined after the characters were chosen. As in, if a Capcom series gets a pick, the Capcom content comes with it, similar to what happened with Joker.

Plus, Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Tekken, and Tales have more than enough going for them aside from Mii costumes to get in. They’d be great for Smash.
Well personally speaking I simply find the mindset that Capcom and Namco must have a character because of this fanbase's obsession with quotas really obnoxious, particularly with Namco. Seriously, one of the characters in the pass is owned by a Western company and another's owned by a small Japanese company that wasn't involved with the base roster which despite being owned by Sega is still credited separately from them. Nintendo and Sakurai aren't limited in terms of potential options in the slightest nor are they unwilling to go for somewhat lesser known picks so the idea that Capcom and Namco are some of the few options available is seriously confounding.
You may have a point, but i’d argue Banjo-Kazooie is a specific circumstance that no other character is in.

They’re a character and series that was basically Nintendo property at one point, and has been requested for roughly 20 years. After being owned by a competitor for a little under that amount of time, the opportunity to collaborate with that company came full circle, which led to Banjo-Kazooie in Smash.

Banjo-Kazooie being western frankly, unless i’m missing something, doesn’t necessarily change any chances for a western character. I view it as a very specific circumstance, and doubt any other western picks. I could be wrong, but that’s how I see it at this point.

Joker is certainly a “lesser known” pick, but again, it seems as though that may have been a Sakurai pick. Being a big fan of the series himself, I wouldn’t be surprised.

Mii Theory is by no means confirmed. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the last two picks were from those two companies anyway. There’s just, like, an abject distaste of them that I simply don’t understand, especially when the series that they can still add are among the most influential to gaming and highly popular.

I certainly don’t view it as a quota. I just think it’s going to happen.
 

GoodGrief741

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Uh
it just occured to me
I am not going to say this char is a lock, nor that the Smash team could make an UT rep work if they desired, but
With Shantae and SK being hard deconfirmed and Steve might as well being deconfirmed, we have only a handful of noteworthy or nintendo-linked indie reps, among them Candance (Crypt of the Necrodancer). She's been featured in a game favored among a few Nintendo upper-ups, to the point of her creator being permitted to create Candance of Hyrule, as well as being new and her game (CoH) being featured heavily in Nintendo directs. It would be wild straw-grasping to assume she WILL be a DLC fighter or a fighter in the future to begin with, but that attention is weird. Pair that with being a more modern kid-friendly rep and the only real threat to this being an UT rep (which themselves are bogged by most major characters being pacifists), it really makes you think...

Like everything I have predicted thus far is wrong (my leaking career ended before it began, sadly), but this bit here is interesting.

ib4 i am told of like a gazillion indies that would be better at that role than Candance
Crypt of the Necrodancer is still a very obscure game, though. While the crossover with Zelda is bound to bring it some attention, it still doesn't make Cadence an attractive pick for DLC.
 

DutchPichu

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Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft
 

KingBroly

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Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft
I'd put Koei Tecmo over Level 5...and maybe over Bethesda as well
 

SKX31

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Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft
I'd go with something like this:

Bethesda (50 %) - SNK (40 %) - Activision (35 %) - Koei Tecmo (Tied at 35 %) - Ubisoft (30 %) - Level 5 (25 %)
 

Nquoid

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Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft
Koei Tecmo - Ubisoft - Bethesda - Activision - SNK - Level 5
 

Untouch

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Counterpoint: Box Theory was real, and that was the dumbest thing ever made.
Not really comparable, Box Theory wasn't a pattern or anything. It was an instance of one piece of promotional art matching up with leaks perfectly. It wasn't even the only piece of promo material that Nintendo put out that suggested that only 2 characters were left.
 

CyberHyperPhoenix

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Why? Besides Ryu Hayabusa, they don't really have anyone who could be added, as Fatal Frame's main protag is an AT.
Linkle is technically owned by Tecmo, right? She'd be a clean inclusion espeically since it'd cover both Tecmo and Zelda at the same time.

Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft
Koei Tecmo, Bethesda, SNK, Level 5, Ubisoft, Activision

Idk where to rank these properly tbh, my SNK bias is killing me rn.
 
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Curious Villager

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Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft
I'd probably go with Koei Tecmo - Level-5 - SNK - Activision - Bethesda - Ubisoft
 

RileyXY1

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Linkle is technically owned by Tecmo, right? She'd be a clean inclusion espeically since it'd cover both Tecmo and Zelda at the same time.



Koei Tecmo, Bethesda, SNK, Level 5, Ubisoft, Activision

Idk where to rank these properly tbh, my SNK bias is killing me rn.
I don't think that's happening. Linkle really isn't popular and is just a genderbent Link.
 

Untouch

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They could go with a DW rep, though it'd be hard to pick one.
Lu Bu is probably the most recognizable but most of the DW characters are based on real people.
 

Opossum

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Counterpoint: Box Theory was real, and that was the dumbest thing ever made.
I mean, was it really?

People were pointing out that it wasn't the first time Nintendo's marketing materials had given away details about a game, including final character rosters, and it matched up perfectly with the Ken and Incineroar leaks we'd been hearing, with only the Square Enix character unaccounted for (which immediately had people correctly guess it was for DLC). And yet there were still people refusing to believe that Nintendo's own marketing team would know the final roster, or that it was clearly a placeholder despite the fact that it had a very deliberate pattern that even saved a very specific spot for Ken on the back.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Well personally speaking I simply find the mindset that Capcom and Namco must have a character because of this fanbase's obsession with quotas really obnoxious, particularly with Namco. Seriously, one of the characters in the pass is owned by a Western company and another's owned by a small Japanese company that wasn't involved with the base roster which despite being owned by Sega is still credited separately from them. Nintendo and Sakurai aren't limited in terms of potential options in the slightest nor are they unwilling to go for somewhat lesser known picks so the idea that Capcom and Namco are some of the few options available is seriously confounding.
People are obsessed with the idea of Sora and Bamco remaining in their comfort zone, when many other supporters encourage them to leave said comfort zone.

Forget the Box Theory, this is Box Culture.

Although I will admit that the Namco wishlist not budging an inch kinda bothers me, Heihachi won't get in this time, I'm 100% sure on this.
 
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RileyXY1

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Although, the Mii Costume Theory is the most likely reason why some people think that the last two characters are from Capcom and Namco Bandai.
 

Megadoomer

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Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft
From highest to lowest:

-Koei Tecmo
-SNK
-Bethesda
-Activision
-Ubisoft
-Level 5

Maybe it's my unfamiliarity with Level 5 talking, but as far as I know, they're mainly known for Yokai Watch (which has significantly dropped in popularity over the years) and Professor Layton. I just find it hard to see Professor Layton making it in over Ryu Hayabusa, Kyo Kusanagi, Terry Bogard, Doomguy, etc.

Koei Tecmo already has content in the base game through Fatal Frame, so it seems like it would be easy enough for the Smash team to get a character from them. SNK has been on a resurgence as of late and is no stranger to crossovers, so I can't see that taking much convincing. With Bethesda, we know that they've been in contact with Nintendo about Smash; their Switch support might be too late to matter, though.

With Activision, there's support for Crash, even in Japan; I could see it happening, especially if they want to match the shock caused by Banjo's inclusion. (since people still assume that he's a mascot of Playstation, or view him that way) With Ubisoft, I could only really see Rayman getting in, and they've gotten permission to use him multiple times but chose to keep him as a trophy or spirit. Maybe we could get Ezio from Assassin's Creed, but I don't know how likely that would be.
 

Robertman2

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I don't see too many people making the claim that Doom Slayer is dead due to its lack of appeal in Japan.
And to my knowledge, only the first Spyro game had a bad port in Japan. I think 2 and 3 had the option to use the Western camera.
Not to mention, K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo got in almost entirely out of Western support.
Yes, Crash would come first (unless they come simultaneously), but Spyro is definitely a possibility. I always default to the "Mega Man didn't disconfirm Ryu" argument, because it's the obvious precedent.
None of the Spyro games past 2 even released in Japan (bar possibly Reignited Trilogy, but if did release in Japan it didn't do well either) and the two that did sold horribly. It's not in the same boat as Doom, it's the same boat as Mortal Kombat

Also Banjo and K. Rool had a decent amount of support in Japan
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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None of the Spyro games past 2 even released in Japan (bar possibly Reignited Trilogy, but if did release in Japan it didn't do well either) and the two that did sold horribly. It's not in the same boat as Doom, it's the same boat as Mortal Kombat

Also Banjo and K. Rool had a decent amount of support in Japan
It's ironic, considering how much Asia likes dragons. :( Also, the GBA games did get a release there, iirc.

Spyro's got an uphill battle ahead of him in regards to Smash inclusion, since support will have to exclusively be done by the Western side of things. It'll make Ridley's inclusion look easy.
 
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Robertman2

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Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft
Bethesda, Koei Tecmo, Activision, SNK, Ubisoft, Level 5

I don't see Level 5 happening ever, since their biggest property plummeted in popularity so fast. Ubisoft and SNK aren't likely imo either
 

UserKev

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It's ironic, considering how much Asia likes dragons. :(Also, the GBA games did get a release there, iirc.

Spyro's got an uphill battle ahead of him in regards to Smash inclusion, since support will have to exclusively be done by the Western side of things. It'll make Ridley's inclusion look easy.
They might be sick of the stereotype or, Spyro is a European Dragon.
 

Robertman2

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It's ironic, considering how much Asia likes dragons. :(Also, the GBA games did get a release there, iirc.

Spyro's got an uphill battle ahead of him in regards to Smash inclusion, since support will have to exclusively be done by the Western side of things. It'll make Ridley's inclusion look easy.
Huh, didn't know the GBA games came out there.
They might be sick of the stereotype or, Spyro is a European Dragon.
blame it on the awful localization of 1
 

Nquoid

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Decided to break down the stats on the 25 costumes (excluding the 4 costumes for already playable characters) from Smash 4 and their current status in Smash Ultimate. This isn't me saying I think costume theory is correct, just what the status of the costumes are:

So far 21/25 characters represented by costumes, are in Smash Ultimate in some way, those missing are; Monster Hunter, Lloyd Iriving, Gil and Jack

So far 13/25 costumes have returned with; X, Proto Man, MegaMan.EXE, Rathalos, Hunter, Heihachi, Lloyd, Gil, Zero, Jacky, Akira and Geno not yet in the game

10/25 characters have some form of upgrade in Smash Ultimate (Proto Man, Rathalos, Inkling, Zero, Isabelle, Black Knight, Chrom, King. K. Rool, Akira, Kunckles).
9/25 characters already being represented in some kind of significant way and not changing, 1 character being made part of a taunt (hi Heihachi), Geno gets only a Spirit and then the four characters not in the game.

So basically costumes were a good rule of thumb to see where Sakurai's head was at in regards in terms of newcomers. Obviously the quality of the cut characters is hardly stellar in the speculation community, with Lloyd being the only one thrown around. But the amount of upgrades from the costume selection certainly says there's a more than 0% chance of someone else receiving that treatment
 
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Door Key Pig

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I wonder if Sakurai's Smash 4 statement where there weren't any viable Bamco reps may still hold ground? I can't see Lloyd being that recognisable at least over here (?) though maybe they could work some Tekken character out if they didn't want only Ryu/Ken as traditional fighter reps?
 

Garteam

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Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft
Same as your list, but I'd move Activision to the top solely because of Crash.

Also, why does no one bring up Soul Calibur when discussing potential Namco characters? Is it because it didn't get a DLC costume in Smash for while Tekken and Tales did? If so, that seems odd considering Virtua Fighter and Mario RPG had DLC costumes in Smash for but getting passed up for Persona and Dragon Quest come Smash Ultimate.
 
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Playstation Guy 1000

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Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft
Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - Bethesda - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft.


I would be surprise if the next dlc character was not from any of the 6 companies I just mention or from bandai Namco/Capcom.
 

Flyboy

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I'm pretty sure at this point more people ask "why isn't anyone talking about Soulcalibur??" when Bamco is brought up than actually talk about other Bamco reps
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I wonder if Sakurai's Smash 4 statement where there weren't any viable Bamco reps may still hold ground? I can't see Lloyd being that recognisable at least over here (?) though maybe they could work some Tekken character out if they didn't want only Ryu/Ken as traditional fighter reps?
It's been said before that Tekken gameplay would be tough to adapt into Smash. And there hasn't been enough Klonoa support on both sides of the pond for him to be noticed yet (on top of the issues his series is facing), and Ms. Pac-Man continues to conspicuously be downplayed in regards to Pac-Man content. The less said about the rest of Namco characters, the better.

So yeah, it's gonna take a while for ANY other Bamco character to get in Smash, if even Agumon doesn't get considered. :drsad:
 
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YsDisciple

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Activision - Bethesda - Koei Tecmo - Level 5 - SNK - Ubisoft

Of these companies, how would you rank them from most likely to least likely for them to get a character this fighters pass?

I'd probably say: Bethesda - Level 5 - Koei Tecmo - Activision - SNK - Ubisoft
I'd rank them in the following order:

-Koei Tecmo (Ryu Hayabusa due to the Ninja Gaiden series being in the NES)
-Activision (due to Crash Bandicoot and his history as one of the big three video game mascots of the 90s)
-Bethesda (due to the content they've been bringing to the Nintendo Switch, and Doom Slayer being among the top speculated characters)
-SNK [due to its solid fighting game history (King of Fighters, Samurai Showdown), as well as the Metal Slug series]
-Ubisoft (due to their recent collaboration with Nintendo; however... Rayman having been included as an Ace rank Spirit hurt its chances imo)
-Level 5 (I've seen mention of Professor Layton as a possible candidate so, who knows)

And I'd like to include within this ranking (out of bias... apologies in advance) Konami. I know they already have three fighters, plus two Assist Trophies (Bomberman and Grey Fox), but my pipe-dream pick here is Goemon from the Mystical Ninja series. True that past the N64 era the series didn't get any of the later games localized to the west but, the series is sooooo good (imo)! :cry: If only Konami would consider (and thus make) a Mystical Ninja/Ganbare Goemon Anniversary Collection. It could be even just the NES game, along with the other 5 SNES games (of which I believe the first one was the only one localized). The N64 games + the DS would be huge bonuses. :awesome:
 
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How would you feel if Crash got in Ultimate... and the next Smash added Pitfall Harry to the roster?
 

coolmancool

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Pitfall Harry would be perfect to represent the second-generation era of gaming. He had the best games on the 2600 and still had games until the PS2 I believe.
 
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