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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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osby

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How about two arguments? Building and mining. Those are the two core fundamentals of Minecraft which make it what it is and what it was all about since it's creation.

Let's just say hypothetically that they port all of the Minecraft mechanics directly into Super Smash Bros and everything including Steve works exactly like it does in Minecraft. Obviously there would be problems right off the bat but we'll work from there until we get a better understanding of what works and what doesn't work.

With mining, you'd have to redo all 108 stages to make the way he mines work and that in itself causes problems as he could potentially level stages by just breaking all of the parts of the stage until there is nothing left. Not to mention that not every stage is going to support grid by grid block breaking as they present other shapes than cubes.

Then you have building where he can build blocks anywhere on the stage he wants and depending on the toughness of the blocks he uses can stall games and he can ledge trap opponents by just placing a wall of blocks in the way.
Why would everything including Steve work exactly like they do in Minecraft when pretty much every character has artistic liberties in their movesets? You can use this reasoning against any character unless they are from a fighting or platforming game.

Also, I find your arguments against mining and building pretty weak, former for being a hyperbole and the latter for the existence of moves like Timber and Hydrant.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Why would everything including Steve work exactly like they do in Minecraft when pretty much every character has artistic liberties in their movesets? You can use this reasoning against any character unless they are from a fighting or platforming game.

Also, I find your arguments against mining and building pretty weak, former for being a hyperbole and the latter for the existence of moves like Timber and Hydrant.
Or other examples that are somewhat logical(which fit more like with Steve) like Pikmin, and Peach/Daisy's vegetables. Getting material from the ground? That's not strange at all even then.

Of course, maybe other unique ways beyond that is cool too. There's more than one way to make the creation moveset work~
 

osby

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Or other examples that are somewhat logical(which fit more like with Steve) like Pikmin, and Peach/Daisy's vegetables. Getting material from the ground? That's not strange at all even then.

Of course, maybe other unique ways beyond that is cool too. There's more than one way to make the creation moveset work~
Most "this character can't be in Smash because Sakurai is physically unable to imagine a moveset than my personal proposal" posts feel really insincere, tbh.
 
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Garteam

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Honestly, Steve is probably the character I'm most indifferent on. I could care less either way if he got in or didn't get in. If Smash candidates were food, Steve would be white beard.

That being said, those Steve renders were pretty annoying, but It's not really fair to take that out on his fanbase as those were open trolls who really didn't care about the character.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Honestly, Minecraft is such an open ended game with an abundance of mechanics that you could make a dozen different movesets for Mr. Steven Minecraft Esq.

One based on upgrading weapons and then rushing to where you died to get your dropped items.
One based on plopping down blocks.
One based on a creeper always being behind you
One based on Spleef tactics
One based abusing Fishing rod mechanics
One based on enchanting tables
One based on building Iron Golems

The list goes on.
 

SNEKeater

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Not a Steve fan, I don't have anything against him either but one thing's for sure, he could bring a lot of options gameplay wise. I'd welcome his addition if he's DLC. I feel indifferent about him but I'm convinced he would be really fun to use, and I'd be happy for his fans. Also, having Minecraft in Smash would be huge.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Anyway Katkit and Sari inspired me to make a Neku moveset

NORMALS
Jab: Neku shoots a shortranged horizontal slash that can become a rapidjab by rapidly slashing as long as the button is held
Ftilt: Neku swings his arm horizontally with energy coming out of his hand, rather similar to Zelda's ftilt despite this being an actual TWEWY attack
Up tilt: Neku does an uppercut which has a slight disjoint due to psychic effects
Down tilt: Neku points at the ground, causing a tiny explosion
Dash attack: Deku does a shoulder charge
Up smash: Ice Blow, Neku summons a pillar made of ice that goes straight up, think Bayonetta's up smash
Forward smash: Neku shoots 3 small shortranged lightning bolts in quick succession, one that hits low, one that hits high and then one in the center that's the actual launcher
Down smash: Neku slams his energy filled fists on the ground, causing a shockwave at his feet, based off of earthquake pins
AERIALS
Nair: Neku makes a 360 spin while doing a karate chop powered by psychic powers
Fair: Neku kicks twice in front of him
Up air: Neku summons a small twister which starts with Neku at the base but quickly rises while having a windbox
Bair: Neku swings backwards with his arms with energy filling his hands
Dair: Neku imbues himself with energy before slamming himself downwards, it spikes at the beginning
GRABS AND THROWS
Grab: Neku holds the enemy with psychokenisis, based on multiple pins he has
Pummel: Neku squeezes his hand, which hurts the enemy
F throw: Neku thrusts his arm out, launching his opponent
Up throw: Neku clasps both of his hands together and swings as if he was doing an exaggerated volleyball swing, launching the foe upwards
B throw: Neku uncaringly tosses his opponent behind him with a dismissive hand wave
D throw: Neku slams his foe down quickly twice before doing a bigger, third slam
SPECIALS
GIMMICK: Neku's specials can only be used a certain amount of time before they have to reboot, uses and recharge times depends on the move used
B: Neku summons a fireball that covers his entire body, by holding the button you can briefly control the fireball in all 8 directions for a few seconds, though it's very slow
Side B: Energy Rounds, by tapping the button, Neku shoots small projectiles which travel a fair bit, Neku can shoot 5 at a time max, but by holding the button, Neku shoots all 5 at once as a slow spread shot, it's range is great but it takes all the uses at once while dealing less damage than hitting all 5 tap shots.
Up B: Neku teleports in the direction you want him to. The teleport is shortranged, but as long as you quickly hit the B button again, Neku will teleport again in the direction you held without becoming helpless. The move has to recharge 3 seconds if you only teleport once, 6 if you teleport twice and 9 if you teleport 3 times, this can be used to mix your recovery up or as an offensive tool due to low landing lag, though if Neku gets tossed offstage right after using it he'll be at quite a disadvantage
Down B: Neku summons a lightning orb that circles around him for 3 seconds, which deals next to no knockback but can cause hitstun. This one takes about 15 seconds to recharge due to how broken this would be if it was spammable and it only starts recharging once the orb disappears
FINAL SMASH
This is seperate as it includes spoilers in case one wants to see this in game
Neku summons a skull sign like the one on his Player Pin, which triggers a cinematic final smash if anyone gets caught, a giant Mr. Mew plushie appears in a city and shoots lasers at the ground, launching the opponent up, where they then get slammed down by a moon falling down, before they hit the ground a tidal wave scoops them up and sends them flying to Neku, who swipes his left arm in an X shape to deal the finishing blow
TAUNTS AND VICTORY SCREENS
Taunt 1: Neku holds his headphones and jams out to what he's listening to
Taunt 2: Neku checks his palm with a concerned look on his face
Taunt 3: Neku looks straight down with a scowl while saying "Get lost!"
Victory theme: The first few notes that play for Twister at the beginning and at the end
Victory screen 1: Shiki jumps for joy at victory while a slightly annoyed Neku tells her to calm down
Victory screen 2: Joshua appears behind Neku and grabs his shoulder while Neku swipes his arm off
Victory screen 3: Beat does a trick on his skateboard to which Neku looks away and responds with "Whatever"

Please give your feedback on this, took a while to come up with and I only took a few liberties
 

Knight Dude

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I don't consider them as a part of the essentials, but Roll and Tron would both make my list if we were expanding even further. I'd also throw in Lan & Mega Man.exe (though Lan wouldn't actually do any fighting).

EDIT: I forgot about Vile. I don't really know much about Mega Man ZX so I'd have to do more research to sell myself on that. I'm also not sure what Mega Man (Starforce) does, but his design is pretty cool to me. Going even further beyond, I'd start adding important/popular normal bosses like Magma Dragoon and Pharaoh Man.
This sounds like a good excuse to link my Starforce Mega Man moveset. Give me a sec.

EDIT: You can click the links to see the gifs.

Here's a moveset Geo Stelar aka Starforce Mega Man. It's not perfect, but should give a general idea of how another Mega Man character can differ from the original, while still keeping to his series' roots. I went with Geo because I feel like a more obscure character like him would be fun to use, compared to the more popular Mega Man X, Zero, or Mega Man EXE when thinking up of a moveset.

Geo's been in a few other titles, such as the Japan exclusive Rockman Operation Shooting Star. A remake of Battle Network 1 that included a bonus chapter with Starforce Mega Man and made him an unlockable character you could play as.

Note, I'll put each attack section in spoilers, as they all have various gifs in them. While not every move has a gif, most do, so I'll try on to make every idea as clear as possible.

Normal Attacks

Jab: Flicker Kick: Seen in Mega Man Starforce 1 and 2.
View attachment 224358
I pretty simple attack. Geo Kicks straight in front of himself 3 times. It should have slightly more range than most hand to hand jabs, but slightly less than sword/hammer jabs. The only major change to this move I'd make is that each is angled slightly differently, with the last launching the opponent. Each Kick should do about 3% of damage, getting 9% if you land the whole thing, a pretty standard footsie tool.

Forward Tilt: Wide Sword: Seen in All 3 Mega Man Starforce games.
View attachment 224359

One of Geo's go to attacks with a Cyber-Sword. A pretty wide Horizontal Slash. Not terribly strong, but pretty fast. Should do about 7% damage and have similar range to Adult Link's F-Tilt. Can be used to chase opponents down.

Down Tilt: Slide Kick: Seen in Various Mega Man games.
View attachment 224362

The Slide Kick, While not a direct reference to Geo himself, it's an attack most Mega Men and other characters have done at least in a spin-off or crossover game, like Mega Man .EXE and Zero in Onimusha Blade Warriors, Mega Man X in MVCI as well as Mega Man and Protoman in the classic series. Geo's Slide should do about 7% of damage, making it slightly weaker than Mega Man's at the sweetspot, but it lacks a sourspot, making it a consistent amount of damage. Geo's version of the attack should be slightly faster than Mega Man's Slide. It'll KO at really high percents at about 135%. Not an ideal KO attack, but something to consider from time to time, or in sudden death matches.

Up Tilt: Heat Upper: Seen in Mega Man Starforce 2 and 3.

View attachment 224363

Geo unleashes a Fire Uppercut with some decent wind-up. It's his Slowest Tilt, but faster and weaker than the Mega Upper. In spite of that, this should not be an attack to underestimate. As expected, it has a Fire Effect along with it. Hitting with the start of the attack should do 12% damage and deal some strong knockback should be able to KO at 100%. While a late hit (when Geo's fist is already out) will do 8% of damage and have severely less knockback.

Dash Attack: Drill Arm: Seen in Mega Man Starforce 3.

View attachment 224364

Geo Thrusts forward with his Drill Arm in front of him hitting multiple times, about 8 times. The first hit does 2% the following 6 hits deal 1% and the last dealing 5%, with it launching opponents. While not a KO move, it's one of Geo's tools for getting opponents off stage to take a stock in the air. It has a really fast start up animation, but a longer recovery animation, making it great for punishing Smash attacks, but risky to use constantly or haphazardly.

Get Up Attack: Sword Spin

Geo Uses his Cyber-Sword and does a quick 360 degree spin slash. Deals 6% damage on both sides and has above average knockback. It's a get off me move.

Ledge Attack: Wide Sword: All 3 MMSF games.

A similar animation to his F-Tilt, but done while Geo's crouching.

Air Attacks

Neutral Air: Dancing Flame: Seen in Mega Man Starforce 2
View attachment 224365

Normally, one of Geo's Flamethrower attacks, but here's one of the moves with a bit of interpretation to fit a fighting game of sorts more. As a Neutral Air, Geo shoots flames out of his Mega Buster, While doing a 360 motion with his arm. Think Samus' Forward Air, but it surrounds his whole body. Hence a "Dancing Flame". It's 8 hits in total, one for each traditional direction. It starts at an up forward angle, and ends directly upwards. the first 7 hits deal 1% of damage with the last dealing 5% and having knockback. It's a decent combo tool, and can lead to moves like Up-Air or Up-Special, or be used while landing on the ground. He can cancel it into Neutral Special while in mid-air.

Forward Air: Long Sword: All 3 Mega Man Starforce games.

View attachment 224366

Another go to attack for Geo's Cyber Sword. A simple but effective Downward vertical slice. Does 9% Damage, but has pretty strong knockback. This attack's speed is similar to Mega Man's Flame Sword, but with longer range. It'll KO at about 95%. This attack works well as a combo ender or a spacing tool in most situations.

Back Air: Flash Strike: Mega Man Starforce 3

View attachment 224368

Geo turns his Mega Buster into a Sword and stabs rapidly about 5 times. This attack has an electric effect on it. Each hit does about 3%, with the last hit having powerful knock back. This is one of Geo's KO tools and can take a stock at about 90%. It's one of his most effective off-stage tools.

Down Air: Cannon: All 3 MMSF Games

View attachment 224369

Geo aims down and shoots a powerful Blue Colored burst from his Mega Buster. This attack has two different hit boxes. The Up-Close hitbox works like a Shotgun, which deals 14% damage and Spikes. While the Blue projectile that follows is good for stage gimping and deals 10%, while having severely less knockback. The range of projectile matches a downward shot Metal Blade. It's a slower attack none the less, but still useful for zoning in certain situations.

Up Air: Gatling Gun: All 3 MMSF games

View attachment 224370

Mega Man Aims Upwards and shoots a flurry of weak, but very quick bullets above him with his Mega Buster. This Attack can hit a maximum of 11 times, with the first 10 hits each deal 1% of damage, the last hit deals 10% and can KO at 90%, making it an effective anti-air and KO tool. The Range for this Attack matches the Air Shooter from Classic Mega Man, but Geo's Fall Speed is sligtly reduced while using it. The recovery is also slightly longer, so it can't chain into itself as much, a single flurry however, is a more reliable KO move. This Attack and also fight off other projectiles.

Special Moves

Neutral Special: Mega Buster: All MMSF Games

View attachment 224375

The Good Ol' Reliable Mega Buster. In Geo's games, the Mega Buster auto charges, but for a game like this, that might be a bit over powered. So I think having it work more like a traditional Mega Buster can help to keep things balanced. Of course there's some other liberties that have to be taken, such as Classic Mega Man not being able to charge in Mid-Air in Smash. In the case with Geo, He CAN charge his Buster in Mid-Air, but can not walk and shoot at the same time(which might feel more like the MMSF Mega Buster). Geo, like Mega Man shoots his buster one handed. The range of Geo's shots are about the same distance as Metal Blades, and flinch just like Mega Man's Buster shots.

Geo's Buster has 3 levels of charged, uncharged shots are orange, mid charged are yellow, and full charged shots are green, similar to Omega-Xis' colors and the Final Smash Laser he shoots in Mega Man's FS.

View attachment 224376

- Standard Buster shots deal 2% damage, not very hard hitting, but fast and great for keep away.
- Mid Charge Shots deal 10% damage and travel the same Metal Blade distance as uncharged shots, they have some knock back and can KO at 140%, not a reliable KO move in normal games, but in longer ones, it'll work.
- Geo's Full Charge has a Kickback animation, and the attack deals 25%. It'll travel full screen, similar to Samus or Mewtwo. It's a powerful move to finish a fight with to say the least. There's no difference in damage between ground and air buster shots. Can KO at 80% on average characters.

Side Special: MilliKick: Mega Man Starforce 2 and 3.

View attachment 224377

Geo dashes at the opponent in a similar manner to Fox, and upon contact, he throws out a flurry of kicks with flashy blue hit trails, before one last kick that sends the opponent flying. MilliKick can be used on the ground or in the air, making it a reliable recovery tool, it has a similar range to Fox's Side B. It has very little start up, but a fair bit of recovery, making reckless use of it outside of recovery, vulnerable to counter attacks. The attack itself is a reference to Street Fighter's Chun-Li, while also implementing some of Geo's "Locking On"features (hence him dashing before doing damage on contact). The attack deals 11% Damage on contact. It can KO at 105% or so.

Down Special: Chain Bubble: Mega Man Starforce 1(and I belive 2 and 3 as well)

View attachment 224379

Geo Shoots a ball of water out of his Mega Buster. Once it lands on the opponent, they are trapped in a bubble that leaves them vulnerable to a follow up. It'll deal 8% damage on contact. The opponent can wiggle out of the Bubble as well, while they won't suffer any damage from doing so, they will be launched slightly. The more damage the opponent has, the longer it takes for the bubble to vanish. The range on this attack matches Luigi's Fireball.

Up Special Hurricane/Typhoon Dance: Mega Man Starforce 1-3

View attachment 224381

Geo's recovery attack. Mega Man will spin around rapidly creating a gale around him that'll cut up any opponents unluckly enough to be near him. There's a few liberties taken with this attack, namely that Geo will fly up much higher when using it, but there's plenty of characters that take liberties to translate their moves into a fighting game of any kind. If all hits connect, this attack will do 12%, so while not terribly strong, it can finish off opponents early if you use it at the top of a stage. It can be used to rack up damage either way. The height of the attack is similar to the mid-air Spin Attack from Adult Link. The wind effect would match Classic Mega Man's Top Spin or Meta-Knights Mach Tornado, while being wider.

Smash Attacks

Forward Smash: Beast Slap: Mega Man Starforce 3

View attachment 224382

Don't worry about the attack in the gif missing, ha ha.

Mega Man sends out his partner in crime Omega-Xis, to Slash the Opponent and send them flying. Uncharged it'll do 13% and full charged, it'll deal 21% damage. It's range is about the same as Donkey Kong's Forward Smash. It'll KO a bit early in the 80% range. Unlike the in-game version, Geo wouldn't really swap places with Omega-Xis.

Down Smash: Double Eater: Mega Man Starforce 3

View attachment 224383

Omega-Xis will slash the ground right in front of and right behind Geo. Each hit will do 7% uncharged, and the both will do 10% charged fully. It can KO at the 90% range. It's Range is similar to Ike's Down Smash.

Up Smash: Rising Beast Slash: Modified from MMSF3

A Variation of the attack used in MMSF3, nothing too crazy. Omega-Xis Slashes in a Half-Circle Arc Above Geo's Head, has similar range to Ridley's Up Smash. Deals 11% Uncharged and 19% Fully Charged. Should KO at 100% range. It's the weakest, but fastest of Starforce Mega Man's Smash attacks.

Throws

For the throws, Geo will use Omega-Xis to assist him in most of them. I'll be using Nero from DMC(another Capcom Series) to help give an idea of how that should look more or less. Hopefully both of them being blue wearing sword+gun fighters with a floating energy being helps too.

Pummel: Omega-Xis will grab the Opponent and hold them along with Geo, while Geo Knees them in the gut. Each pummel does 2% of damage.

Forward Throw:

View attachment 224385

Omega-Xis will Spin the opponent around Geo once, and Geo will kick them forwards. This throw does 7% damage. Not much of a KO throw.

Back Throw:

View attachment 224386

One of the main KO throws. Omega-Xis will wildly spin the opponent multiple times and Slash them away behind Geo. This throw deals 11% damage and can KO from mid screen at about 100% damage.

Down Throw:

View attachment 224388
Omega-Xis will slam the enemy to the ground and Geo stomp on them, popping them up. This Deals 7% damage. Like many Down Throws, it'll lead to combos using many moves, N-Air, Jab, U-Air, F-Tilt, F-Air ect ect.

Up Throw:

Geo Blasts the opponent with a bunch of Rapid-Fire Mega Buster Shots, Then Omega-Xis will Uppercut them away. The throw will deal 14% damage and it's another KO throw. It can take a stock at the 100% damage range.

Final Smash

Black End Galaxy: Mega Man Star Force 3

Mega Man transforms into his Black Ace form and Shoots a Black Hole towards the center of the stage, it'll grab and continually deal damage to any enemies caught up in it, leading to a cinematic shot of Mega Man using a Red and Black Cyber Sword to cut the Black Hole, making it explode. Like Ridley and Zelda, it automatically KO's 100% or more damage at the end of the attack. The attack itself will deal 40% damage on it's own.

Well, that's the current version of this moveset. I'm sure there's other adjustments I'll have to make, namely with damage, but for now that's what I came up with
 
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osby

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Anyway Katkit and Sari inspired me to make a Neku moveset

NORMALS
Jab: Neku shoots a shortranged horizontal slash that can become a rapidjab by rapidly slashing as long as the button is held
Ftilt: Neku swings his arm horizontally with energy coming out of his hand, rather similar to Zelda's ftilt despite this being an actual TWEWY attack
Up tilt: Neku does an uppercut which has a slight disjoint due to psychic effects
Down tilt: Neku points at the ground, causing a tiny explosion
Dash attack: Deku does a shoulder charge
Up smash: Ice Blow, Neku summons a pillar made of ice that goes straight up, think Bayonetta's up smash
Forward smash: Neku shoots 3 small shortranged lightning bolts in quick succession, one that hits low, one that hits high and then one in the center that's the actual launcher
Down smash: Neku slams his energy filled fists on the ground, causing a shockwave at his feet, based off of earthquake pins
AERIALS
Nair: Neku makes a 360 spin while doing a karate chop powered by psychic powers
Fair: Neku kicks twice in front of him
Up air: Neku summons a small twister which starts with Neku at the base but quickly rises while having a windbox
Bair: Neku swings backwards with his arms with energy filling his hands
Dair: Neku imbues himself with energy before slamming himself downwards, it spikes at the beginning
GRABS AND THROWS
Grab: Neku holds the enemy with psychokenisis, based on multiple pins he has
Pummel: Neku squeezes his hand, which hurts the enemy
F throw: Neku thrusts his arm out, launching his opponent
Up throw: Neku clasps both of his hands together and swings as if he was doing an exaggerated volleyball swing, launching the foe upwards
B throw: Neku uncaringly tosses his opponent behind him with a dismissive hand wave
D throw: Neku slams his foe down quickly twice before doing a bigger, third slam
SPECIALS
GIMMICK: Neku's specials can only be used a certain amount of time before they have to reboot, uses and recharge times depends on the move used
B: Neku summons a fireball that covers his entire body, by holding the button you can briefly control the fireball in all 8 directions for a few seconds, though it's very slow
Side B: Energy Rounds, by tapping the button, Neku shoots small projectiles which travel a fair bit, Neku can shoot 5 at a time max, but by holding the button, Neku shoots all 5 at once as a slow spread shot, it's range is great but it takes all the uses at once while dealing less damage than hitting all 5 tap shots.
Up B: Neku teleports in the direction you want him to. The teleport is shortranged, but as long as you quickly hit the B button again, Neku will teleport again in the direction you held without becoming helpless. The move has to recharge 3 seconds if you only teleport once, 6 if you teleport twice and 9 if you teleport 3 times, this can be used to mix your recovery up or as an offensive tool due to low landing lag, though if Neku gets tossed offstage right after using it he'll be at quite a disadvantage
Down B: Neku summons a lightning orb that circles around him for 3 seconds, which deals next to no knockback but can cause hitstun. This one takes about 15 seconds to recharge due to how broken this would be if it was spammable and it only starts recharging once the orb disappears
FINAL SMASH
This is seperate as it includes spoilers in case one wants to see this in game
Neku summons a skull sign like the one on his Player Pin, which triggers a cinematic final smash if anyone gets caught, a giant Mr. Mew plushie appears in a city and shoots lasers at the ground, launching the opponent up, where they then get slammed down by a moon falling down, before they hit the ground a tidal wave scoops them up and sends them flying to Neku, who swipes his left arm in an X shape to deal the finishing blow
TAUNTS AND VICTORY SCREENS
Taunt 1: Neku holds his headphones and jams out to what he's listening to
Taunt 2: Neku checks his palm with a concerned look on his face
Taunt 3: Neku looks straight down with a scowl while saying "Get lost!"
Victory theme: The first few notes that play for Twister at the beginning and at the end
Victory screen 1: Shiki jumps for joy at victory while a slightly annoyed Neku tells her to calm down
Victory screen 2: Joshua appears behind Neku and grabs his shoulder while Neku swipes his arm off
Victory screen 3: Beat does a trick on his skateboard to which Neku looks away and responds with "Whatever"

Please give your feedback on this, took a while to come up with and I only took a few liberties
I liked this one. Attacks and animations form a cohesive moveset and you knew when to hold back. I particularly liked his down smash and up throw among normals, and his B and down B among specials. Also, liked the twist on FS.

How do you think he'll play like (as in zoned, rushdown, etc)? My first impression is something like Robin with more speed but less power.
 

Evil Trapezium

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An idea I had a while ago is that Steve has access to a sword and a pickaxe which can be swapped at any time, the sword does more damage than the axe but the axe gets you materials when you hit people with it, down B is a crafting table and shows a menu for blocks or equipment upgrades, meaning players get to choose between stage control with the blocks, more power by upgrading the sword or getting more materials on hit by uograding the axe, the upgrades and higher tiers of blocks can be very useful but obvioisly take more resources and you lose equipment upgrades when you lose a stock, all the blocks have different properties but gravity will still influence them
We could extend the Pickaxe use to having the Hatchet and the shovel so Steve can get Cobblestone, Wood and Dirt so he'd get three of the most important blocks in Minecraft. The idea of hitting your opponent actually doesn't sound too bad because you'd be focusing on the battle while collecting resources. It's not exactly mining but it works within the context of Smash Bros. I think the mining problem is solved.

However in Minecraft, only sand and gravel are affected by gravity and the mining mechanic you've offered makes building more of a problem because there is no limit to how many blocks you can get from opponents. So Steve can just hit opponents, get as many blocks as he can, run away and start building upwards. If the opponent tries to challenge Steve, he can just hit them with a Pickaxe and then collect the materials to stay airborne.

He could mine them to get them back, or they could drop from opponents and into his inventory when he attacks them.

If they do disappear, then even if he can keep stacking them in the air instead of having to connect to the stage he’ll still be limited in the number he can place so he can’t build an OP wall. An opponent can destroy his blocks too, and they really could just make it so his blocks have to connect to the top or side of the stage in order for him to place more so he doesn’t camp underneath (or say he gets 3 blocks max, so he couldn’t camp underneath the stage anyway due to lack of space; and if the blocks are limited in his inventory, then camping like that wouldn’t be a problem anyway since he’ll either have to come back and fight or die).

edit: like Cutie Gwen Cutie Gwen mentioned though, they could just all be influenced by gravity tbh so they really will have to be touching the stage. Really like that crafting idea btw.
There isn't much point to mining them if they disappear after a while though or quickly to stop you from building upwards from the stage.

The only blocks affected by gravity are Sand and Gravel. They're not exactly building blocks and you'd be missing the three most important blocks in Minecraft being Cobblestone, Wood and Dirt.

On a lighter note, I don't think going under the stage would be a problem with building because that would require going into the 3rd dimension which is impossible in Smash Bros. Staying up in the air is more of an issue since it's much easier to do.

To be fair, you don't need the stages to be mine-able. Steve could just have an inventory where he can place blocks and then have a pickaxe to mine those blocks. He also would be limited in blocks. Of course they won't allow him to have twenty blocks so he can surround himself or build an impossibly tall wall. At the most they will give him about 5 blocks he can put down and if ledge blocking is an issue, they can have the blocks be easily destroyed or have the ledge still be grab-able.
But there would be no point to mining them because if you already have the block from the start then you can already place the block down and now there is no reason to mine it because it will go away after a short time. The blocks would be destructible like the games yes but they'd also be solid like the games so unless you can reach on top of the block, you won't be able to grab the ledge, otherwise it would look like characters are clipping into the blocks which doesn't look professional.

Why would everything including Steve work exactly like they do in Minecraft when pretty much every character has artistic liberties in their movesets? You can use this reasoning against any character unless they are from a fighting or platforming game.

Also, I find your arguments against mining and building pretty weak, former for being a hyperbole and the latter for the existence of moves like Timber and Hydrant.
It's just a base idea to work from until it forms into something realisable for Super Smash Bros but still feels familiar to Minecraft. Think of it like Playing Minecraft but in Super Smash Bros which is what most third party characters achieve. Of course there can be artistic liberties but most if not all Third Party characters stay as true to their home series as they possibly can. We have Simon, Megaman, Ryu, Terry, Bayonetta, Snake, Banjo & Kazooie, Cloud, etc. All of them mostly use moves that you can find them doing in their own games and make you feel like you're playing one of their games inside Smash Bros.

As for the other point. Timber and Hydrant don't outright stop you from grabbing the edge. I'd compare it more to a gordo stuck on the side of the stage but way easier to do.
 

GoodGrief741

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TheCJBrine TheCJBrine I never understood your assertion that all arguments against Steve are highly opinionated. Yeah... That's obvious. Liking and not liking a character are opinions. So any statement like "Steve would look ugly" or "Steve would look just fine" is an opinion, unless Sakurai says it. You can try to shut everyone up by saying "it doesn't matter because it's just an opinion", but it's not really a good-faith argument. You're the biggest Steve supporter I know and you've probably done wonders for the image of his supporters, and I respect that, but if you really want to have an honest argument there are much better ways to go about it.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I liked this one. Attacks and animations form a cohesive moveset and you knew when to hold back. I particularly liked his down smash and up throw among normals, and his B and down B among specials. Also, liked the twist on FS.

How do you think he'll play like (as in zoned, rushdown, etc)? My first impression is something like Robin with more speed but less power.
That twist is based on how they slightly changed that in the Switch port if you had all level 3 fusions available

A Marth-esque zoner, as his moves all have sweetspots though most of his normals aren't disjointed

We could extend the Pickaxe use to having the Hatchet and the shovel so Steve can get Cobblestone, Wood and Dirt so he'd get three of the most important blocks in Minecraft. The idea of hitting your opponent actually doesn't sound too bad because you'd be focusing on the battle while collecting resources. It's not exactly mining but it works within the context of Smash Bros. I think the mining problem is solved.

However in Minecraft, only sand and gravel are affected by gravity and the mining mechanic you've offered makes building more of a problem because there is no limit to how many blocks you can get from opponents. So Steve can just hit opponents, get as many blocks as he can, run away and start building upwards. If the opponent tries to challenge Steve, he can just hit them with a Pickaxe and then collect the materials to stay airborne.



There isn't much point to mining them if they disappear after a while though or quickly to stop you from building upwards from the stage.

The only blocks affected by gravity are Sand and Gravel. They're not exactly building blocks and you'd be missing the three most important blocks in Minecraft being Cobblestone, Wood and Dirt.

On a lighter note, I don't think going under the stage would be a problem with building because that would require going into the 3rd dimension which is impossible in Smash Bros. Staying up in the air is more of an issue since it's much easier to do.



But there would be no point to mining them because if you already have the block from the start then you can already place the block down and now there is no reason to mine it because it will go away after a short time. The blocks would be destructible like the games yes but they'd also be solid like the games so unless you can reach on top of the block, you won't be able to grab the ledge, otherwise it would look like characters are clipping into the blocks which doesn't look professional.



It's just a base idea to work from until it forms into something realisable for Super Smash Bros but still feels familiar to Minecraft. Think of it like Playing Minecraft but in Super Smash Bros which is what most third party characters achieve. Of course there can be artistic liberties but most if not all Third Party characters stay as true to their home series as they possibly can. We have Simon, Megaman, Ryu, Terry, Bayonetta, Snake, Banjo & Kazooie, Cloud, etc. All of them mostly use moves that you can find them doing in their own games and make you feel like you're playing one of their games inside Smash Bros.

As for the other point. Timber and Hydrant don't outright stop you from grabbing the edge. I'd compare it more to a gordo stuck on the side of the stage but way easier to do.
I'm basing if off of an idea I came up with in 2 minutes, though to answer the questions, the idea I had when I wrote it down last time was that materials gained based on percentages of damage dealt, like idk, every 5% gives you 1 wood, every 10% stone, 20% iron, etc.

Creating blocks costs resources so if you try spamming blocks you need a LOT of resources, the cheapest blocks are easy to break so it's a waste as those resources could have been used elsewhere. As for gravity, it's a liberty taken for game design like so many others in Smash, I feel that making sure the Craft special can only be used when standing on a surface like Pikmin Pluck or Turnip solves that issue imo
 

osby

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TheCJBrine TheCJBrine I never understood your assertion that all arguments against Steve are highly opinionated. Yeah... That's obvious. Liking and not liking a character are opinions. So any statement like "Steve would look ugly" or "Steve would look just fine" is an opinion, unless Sakurai says it. You can try to shut everyone up by saying "it doesn't matter because it's just an opinion", but it's not really a good-faith argument. You're the biggest Steve supporter I know and you've probably done wonders for the image of his supporters, and I respect that, but if you really want to have an honest argument there are much better ways to go about it.
Okay, but people who hate Steve think "I don't like his face" is a legit argument instead of just an opinion.

Yes, most of what you feel about characters don't matter that much. You can say Bayo is too suggestive for Smash or Snake is too realistic or Terry isn't unique enough for your taste but you also have to acknowledge that developers have different priorities.

I think that's one of the biggest problems with Steve (and overall Smash, really) speculation: Fans genuinely struggling to separate their feelings from reality.

EDIT: Also, agreed that some Steve fans can act over-defensive but man, people who supposedly don't care about Steve sure adore talking about him.
 
Last edited:

TheCJBrine

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We could extend the Pickaxe use to having the Hatchet and the shovel so Steve can get Cobblestone, Wood and Dirt so he'd get three of the most important blocks in Minecraft. The idea of hitting your opponent actually doesn't sound too bad because you'd be focusing on the battle while collecting resources. It's not exactly mining but it works within the context of Smash Bros. I think the mining problem is solved.

However in Minecraft, only sand and gravel are affected by gravity and the mining mechanic you've offered makes building more of a problem because there is no limit to how many blocks you can get from opponents. So Steve can just hit opponents, get as many blocks as he can, run away and start building upwards. If the opponent tries to challenge Steve, he can just hit them with a Pickaxe and then collect the materials to stay airborne.



There isn't much point to mining them if they disappear after a while though or quickly to stop you from building upwards from the stage.

The only blocks affected by gravity are Sand and Gravel. They're not exactly building blocks and you'd be missing the three most important blocks in Minecraft being Cobblestone, Wood and Dirt.

On a lighter note, I don't think going under the stage would be a problem with building because that would require going into the 3rd dimension which is impossible in Smash Bros. Staying up in the air is more of an issue since it's much easier to do.



But there would be no point to mining them because if you already have the block from the start then you can already place the block down and now there is no reason to mine it because it will go away after a short time. The blocks would be destructible like the games yes but they'd also be solid like the games so unless you can reach on top of the block, you won't be able to grab the ledge, otherwise it would look like characters are clipping into the blocks which doesn't look professional.



It's just a base idea to work from until it forms into something realisable for Super Smash Bros but still feels familiar to Minecraft. Think of it like Playing Minecraft but in Super Smash Bros which is what most third party characters achieve. Of course there can be artistic liberties but most if not all Third Party characters stay as true to their home series as they possibly can. We have Simon, Megaman, Ryu, Terry, Bayonetta, Snake, Banjo & Kazooie, Cloud, etc. All of them mostly use moves that you can find them doing in their own games and make you feel like you're playing one of their games inside Smash Bros.

As for the other point. Timber and Hydrant don't outright stop you from grabbing the edge. I'd compare it more to a gordo stuck on the side of the stage but way easier to do.
I think the problem you have with him building into the air wouldn't really be a problem; if there's a limit to how many can be onstage, and the time it takes for a block to disappear lasts long enough, he couldn't really run away by building upwards unless the opponent lets him, or at least he wouldn't get far enough to be annoying or anti-competitive.

I'm not sure about ledges though, but maybe recovery moves could instantly break them as someone else suggested, and/or the block on the ledge just breaks when a character tries to grab it (or the blocks' ledges can be grabbed).

TheCJBrine TheCJBrine I never understood your assertion that all arguments against Steve are highly opinionated. Yeah... That's obvious. Liking and not liking a character are opinions. So any statement like "Steve would look ugly" or "Steve would look just fine" is an opinion, unless Sakurai says it. You can try to shut everyone up by saying "it doesn't matter because it's just an opinion", but it's not really a good-faith argument. You're the biggest Steve supporter I know and you've probably done wonders for the image of his supporters, and I respect that, but if you really want to have an honest argument there are much better ways to go about it.
My problem is "Steve would look ugly" really is just an opinion, and people are using it as an argument by saying "he wouldn't fit so he'd just be a costume" and stuff like that (and really if people think he wouldn't fit as a fighter then a mii costume would surely be worse). Some people probably think the same about Game & Watch. I try to stay civil and suggest ways Steve could look good and give examples, and sometimes people understand yet other times people keep saying the same thing and act as if their opinion is fact or he really can't be in Smash. It's not just here, people on Twitter have done the same thing, and here it's really just a few people tbh but it gets really annoying when you give examples as to how Steve can express himself and stuff and then people act like none of those examples matter, even if they're from official sources.

I don't care if anyone dislikes him, but saying he can't make facial expressions or show any personality in other ways is factually incorrect, though I can at least understand it a bit if they're saying things without knowing anything more than basic stuff in the main game. The "no moveset" argument is much less understandable, however, as they should at least research some stuff regarding that (and really the other thing too I guess but idk).

I'm sorry if I come off as rude or harsh, but the same arguments have been done to death for over a year so I guess I'm just getting tired of them especially when some users even on twitter make it feel hurtful since they're being rude to Steve supporters and may butt in even when what they're saying isn't even relevant to the topic other than it being Steve. It's all over videogame characters and yet some people act as if he'd be a bad thing and seem extremely against him to the point where I lose understanding; also, I see very few people with a negative opinion of Steve whom are fair in these debates, at least that I can recall.

And really, I have never heard an argument against Steve that was based on real facts. I see decent arguments over other characters that make sense even if they could easily be resolved, but everytime it's about Steve it's "nah he ugly/can't show personality despite official things showing otherwise" or "what would he even do? is he just Link?" or some nicer variation of those 2 + few other better ones that are easier to take. I think I've only read one argument in this thread that was a legitimate concern, which was about characters' limbs enlarging and stuff in moves, though there are moves/animations where a character's or their weapon's proportions won't change at all, and it wasn't really "against" Steve anyway and the user didn't sound negative or harsh at all.
 
Last edited:

osby

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That twist is based on how they slightly changed that in the Switch port if you had all level 3 fusions available

A Marth-esque zoner, as his moves all have sweetspots though most of his normals aren't disjointed
I forgot all about Switch port, haha.

Sounds like a fun character, I'd love to get a character like this in DLC, even if it's not Neku.

We could extend the Pickaxe use to having the Hatchet and the shovel so Steve can get Cobblestone, Wood and Dirt so he'd get three of the most important blocks in Minecraft. The idea of hitting your opponent actually doesn't sound too bad because you'd be focusing on the battle while collecting resources. It's not exactly mining but it works within the context of Smash Bros. I think the mining problem is solved.

However in Minecraft, only sand and gravel are affected by gravity and the mining mechanic you've offered makes building more of a problem because there is no limit to how many blocks you can get from opponents. So Steve can just hit opponents, get as many blocks as he can, run away and start building upwards. If the opponent tries to challenge Steve, he can just hit them with a Pickaxe and then collect the materials to stay airborne.



There isn't much point to mining them if they disappear after a while though or quickly to stop you from building upwards from the stage.

The only blocks affected by gravity are Sand and Gravel. They're not exactly building blocks and you'd be missing the three most important blocks in Minecraft being Cobblestone, Wood and Dirt.

On a lighter note, I don't think going under the stage would be a problem with building because that would require going into the 3rd dimension which is impossible in Smash Bros. Staying up in the air is more of an issue since it's much easier to do.



But there would be no point to mining them because if you already have the block from the start then you can already place the block down and now there is no reason to mine it because it will go away after a short time. The blocks would be destructible like the games yes but they'd also be solid like the games so unless you can reach on top of the block, you won't be able to grab the ledge, otherwise it would look like characters are clipping into the blocks which doesn't look professional.



It's just a base idea to work from until it forms into something realisable for Super Smash Bros but still feels familiar to Minecraft. Think of it like Playing Minecraft but in Super Smash Bros which is what most third party characters achieve. Of course there can be artistic liberties but most if not all Third Party characters stay as true to their home series as they possibly can. We have Simon, Megaman, Ryu, Terry, Bayonetta, Snake, Banjo & Kazooie, Cloud, etc. All of them mostly use moves that you can find them doing in their own games and make you feel like you're playing one of their games inside Smash Bros.

As for the other point. Timber and Hydrant don't outright stop you from grabbing the edge. I'd compare it more to a gordo stuck on the side of the stage but way easier to do.
This whole thing reads like a "Banjo would need a collecting mechanic if he gets in" post.
 

GoodGrief741

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Messages
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Squall's gimmick is being the best looking guy of the roster
Bonus points if he gets his original model as an alt. That there is the handsomest man alive.
Okay, but people who hate Steve think "I don't like his face" is a legit argument instead of just an opinion.

Yes, most of what you feel about characters don't matter that much. You can say Bayo is too suggestive for Smash or Snake is too realistic or Terry isn't unique enough for your taste but you also have to acknowledge that developers have different priorities.

I think that's one of the biggest problems with Steve (and overall Smash, really) speculation: Fans genuinely struggling to separate their feelings from reality.

EDIT: Also, agreed that some Steve fans can act over-defensive but man, people who supposedly don't care about Steve sure adore talking about him.
"Steve is ugly, therefore he won't get in" is certainly a terrible argument. I think the intent there is more along the lines of "Steve's appearance might be considered too different, to the point where it might prevent his inclusion". For some that won't make sense, as other characters such as Mr. Game & Watch also look very different and got it anyway. For others, that might just not be an apt comparison.
I try to stay civil and suggest ways Steve could look good and give examples, and sometimes people understand yet other times people keep saying the same thing and act as if their opinion is fact or he really can't be in Smash.
People will think their arguments are solid. That goes both ways. In a debate, the other person not being convinced doesn't necessarily mean your argument wasn't sound, nor does it mean that they can't be reasoned with. It's just a matter of communication. For instance, you have presented many times in official material where Steve has emoted more than in his original appearance. To you, that's enough to be considered emotive. To others, it might not. It's, again, subjective.

Regardless, anyone who doesn't express that they don't find your evidence sufficient, and just ignore it, well, it's going to be frustrating, I understand that.
I'm sorry if I come off as rude or harsh, but the same arguments have been done to death for over a year so I guess I'm just getting tired of them especially when some users even on twitter make it feel hurtful since they're being rude to Steve supporters and may butt in even when what they're saying isn't even relevant to the topic other than it being Steve. It's all over videogame characters and yet some people act as if he'd be a bad thing and seem extremely against him to the point where I lose understanding; also, I see very few people with a negative opinion of Steve whom are fair in these debates, at least that I can recall.
I can't speak of how Twitter is because I'm not there, but if it's that toxic, have you considered not frequenting it as much? No need to start getting stressed over a few dip****s over there. I think Smashboards, while far from a perfect environment, is at least pretty civil in that regard.
 

Opossum

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Anyway, since we're doing movesets right now, and the character is topical again now that he got an alt in Heroes, and there's a lot of people here now that weren't here when I originally posted it months ago, I figured I'd share my Merric moveset here. Let me know what you guys think!

Overview:
Merric would be the first Fire Emblem character in Smash to not use a sword whatsoever, being a purely tome-based fighter. As Merric's known as the Wind Mage and wields Excalibur, in Smash he would be an anti-air focused character, specializing in taking out aerial foes, but being a glass cannon who doesn't fight well up close.

Normal Attacks:
Jab: A gust of wind comes from slightly in front of Merric, pushing foes toward him. Another gust pushes foes slightly away from Merric. These can be chained for a bit, until the knock back forces foes away. All the while Merric moves his hands in a back and forth twirling or stirring motion.

Dash Attack: Merric clutches Excalibur to his chest as he lunges forward with one hand outstretched, sending a blast of wind toward the ground in front of him. Visually and mechanically similar to Little Mac's dash attack.

Forward Tilt: Merric sweeps his arm out in front of him as a small slice of compressed wind shoots out in front of him. A multi hit move that travels about half the width of a Battlefield platform.

Up Tilt: Merric lifts his arm quickly in a scooping motion as a razor wind travels from in front of him, to above him, to slightly behind him. This move mimics Marth's Up Tilt almost exactly, due to fitting in with Merric's anti-air theme and referencing his and Marth's friendship.

Down Tilt: Taking out an Elfire tome, Merric crouches. He then snaps his finger and a small ember appears on the ground a small distance in front of him, burning whatever foe he hits.


Smash Attacks:

Forward Smash: Merric creates a wall of razor wind in front of him. He then extends his arm and points, sending the wall of wind crashing into the foe. The wall travels the width of a Battlefield platform and drags the foe with it, not unlike Greninja's Water Shuriken with far less distance. However, there exists a momentary delay on the move before the wall begins to move. Walking into the unmoving wind wall causes no damage, so Merric must be careful of foes approaching quickly.

Up Smash: Merric summons a massive cyclone above him, which includes a suction effect. Foes are rapidly hit with multiple attacks from the cyclone before they are tossed from it. Foes are launched horizontally, similar to Jigglypuff's down smash.

Down Smash: Merric moves his hand in a small circle while holding an Elfire tome. The ground immediately around him flashes with red before erupting in two columns of fire.


Aerial Attacks:

Neutral Aerial: A gust of wind twirls around Merric's body as a multi-hit move, not dissimilar to Mewtwo's or Pikachu's neutral aerial.

Forward Aerial: Merric extends an arm, performing a motion similar to Robin's forward aerial, and launches a small blast of wind a small distance.

Back Aerial: Merric turns around and holds his Excalibur tome open with both hands as a green blast of wind erupts from it. Its range is short, but the move is very potent.

Up Aerial: Merric lifts his hand and launches two rising wind blasts which carry foes slightly upwards.

Down Aerial: Merric shoots a massive crescent of wind downward. If an opponent is hit by the center of the crescent, they are meteor smashed.


Pummel and Throws:

Pummel: Merric grabs the foe as wind magic pulses into them with each pummel.

Forward Throw: Merric hurls a chilling wind using his Blizzard tome, launching foes forward.

Back Throw: Merric tosses the foe back and blasts them with his Shaver tome.

Up Throw: Merric tosses the foe up and bombards them with three razor wind blasts from Excalibur.

Down Throw: Merric launches a fireball at the grounded opponent, causing a ground bounce.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: Excalibur - Merric holds his palm face down over the cover of his tome as it pulses with a green glow. After releasing the button, Merric launches a speedy and aimable razor wind blast. Like Pit's neutral special, this move can have its course adjusted as it flies. This move doesn't do a whole lot of damage or knockback, even when fully charged...against grounded opponents. If the opponent is in the air, however, the damage output gets increased significantly and the knockback is greatly expanded, making this a terrifically versatile anti-air projectile.

Side Special: Swarm - Merric takes out a siege tome, Swarm. When the button is held, a small dark energy orb appears about one Battlefield platform's distance away from Merric. By holding down the button and moving the stick, similar to Greninja's Shadow Sneak, you can move the orb further outward, upward to 80% of the length of Final Destination. However, you may not move it closer to Merric than its starting position and Merric cannot move while preparing this attack. When the move is released, a swarm of dark energy bombards any foe trapped in the blast radius in a high-damage, multi-hit move that does more damage the further away the foe is. Because the move isn't restricted to the stage itself, you can also hit foes off stage, so long as they are directly in Merric's line of sight, in an attempt to ruin their recovery. This move shouldn't be used in Free For Alls, however, as Merric is a sitting duck while using it.

Up Special: Shaver - Merric uses a Shaver tome to launch himself upward. This move doesn't cause any damage, but covers a great deal of vertical distance, compensating for Merric's low jumps. As well, as Merric ascends, he gets a wind box around him, pushing away foes that stray too close.

Down Special: Blizzard - Merric stands in place and takes out a Blizzard tome, pointing his hand diagonally downward toward the ground. While holding the move, he can move the control stick both in front of and behind himself, shooting an icy wind blast toward the ground and freezing it. Merric can only have a total amount of ground equivalent to one Battlefield platform frozen at a time. The frozen ground becomes slippery, making foes that step on it likely to trip, allowing for Merric to either counterattack or escape, or forcing them to make an aerial approach. The ground will thaw after a period of time, however. In the air, this move just acts as a chilling wind attack that's launched diagonally downward and doesn't cover a very large distance.

Final Smash: Starlight - In a cinematic Final Smash, Merric traps all foes in range in a magical bind. The background turns into a star-filled void as Merric unleashes a celestial explosion from the Starlight tome, yelling "Divine Starlight, lend me your aid!" and causing massive damage and knockback.


Taunts:
Up Taunt: Merric raises his hand, palm upward, as a small ball of wind forms in his hand.

Side Taunt: Merric begins reading through his tome, lightly chuckling to himself.

Down Taunt: Wind billows around Merric as Excalibur's pages turn and his hood rises up, while saying "Winds, heed me!"


Victory Animations:

Victory 1: Merric tucks Excalibur away into his robe and takes a bow.
Victory 2: Merric descends to the ground, surrounded by powerful gusts of wind and says, "It's been a pleasure."
Victory 3: Merric, with Excalibur drawn and open, says "The magic I've learned must protect everyone."

Victory vs Marth: Victory 3, except the voice line changes to "Don't worry, Marth. I'm sure Elice will be able to patch you up."

Kirby Hat: Kirby gets Merric's hair, hood, and Excalibur tome.

Alternate Costume: His white bishop robes from Mystery of the Emblem.
 

TheCJBrine

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People will think their arguments are solid. That goes both ways. In a debate, the other person not being convinced doesn't necessarily mean your argument wasn't sound, nor does it mean that they can't be reasoned with. It's just a matter of communication. For instance, you have presented many times in official material where Steve has emoted more than in his original appearance. To you, that's enough to be considered emotive. To others, it might not. It's, again, subjective.

Regardless, anyone who doesn't express that they don't find your evidence sufficient, and just ignore it, well, it's going to be frustrating, I understand that.

I can't speak of how Twitter is because I'm not there, but if it's that toxic, have you considered not frequenting it as much? No need to start getting stressed over a few dip****s over there. I think Smashboards, while far from a perfect environment, is at least pretty civil in that regard.
That's all true, and thanks for the advice. I understand the debate stuff and I'll keep it in mind; tbh I don't even like arguing and stuff, and yet I fall into it anyway...but I'll try and be more calm-headed and be more understanding of that kinda stuff, as admittedly I sometimes get irritable and quick to assume things, and I'll work on that. I do like explaining stuff regarding how Steve can work, I guess it just feels like some people go against him in a blunt/rude sorta way.

Regarding twitter, yeah, a lot of them are likely just trolls or are stubborn to the point of not understanding even a little. Some are probably the same people who say "lol go back to reddit, Minecraft player" too (I really don't understand what the deal is with Reddit, the Minecraft subreddit has been a mostly pleasant place in my experience with plenty of nice folks just sharing their stuff or news and commenting on others, with just a minority of immature people; I'm aware Reddit itself has some issues, though, like allowing some bad subreddits to exist...).

Again, I apologize for any rude or harsh things I may have said before. I never intend to insult anyone, but sometimes I may argue in a way where I feel as if the other person isn't listening or considering my own points, or they say stuff without really knowing much and seem kinda rude, and I'll work on that too...
 

Cutie Gwen

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Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Anyway, since we're doing movesets right now, and the character is topical again now that he got an alt in Heroes, and there's a lot of people here now that weren't here when I originally posted it months ago, I figured I'd share my Merric moveset here. Let me know what you guys think!

Overview:
Merric would be the first Fire Emblem character in Smash to not use a sword whatsoever, being a purely tome-based fighter. As Merric's known as the Wind Mage and wields Excalibur, in Smash he would be an anti-air focused character, specializing in taking out aerial foes, but being a glass cannon who doesn't fight well up close.

Normal Attacks:
Jab: A gust of wind comes from slightly in front of Merric, pushing foes toward him. Another gust pushes foes slightly away from Merric. These can be chained for a bit, until the knock back forces foes away. All the while Merric moves his hands in a back and forth twirling or stirring motion.

Dash Attack: Merric clutches Excalibur to his chest as he lunges forward with one hand outstretched, sending a blast of wind toward the ground in front of him. Visually and mechanically similar to Little Mac's dash attack.

Forward Tilt: Merric sweeps his arm out in front of him as a small slice of compressed wind shoots out in front of him. A multi hit move that travels about half the width of a Battlefield platform.

Up Tilt: Merric lifts his arm quickly in a scooping motion as a razor wind travels from in front of him, to above him, to slightly behind him. This move mimics Marth's Up Tilt almost exactly, due to fitting in with Merric's anti-air theme and referencing his and Marth's friendship.

Down Tilt: Taking out an Elfire tome, Merric crouches. He then snaps his finger and a small ember appears on the ground a small distance in front of him, burning whatever foe he hits.


Smash Attacks:

Forward Smash: Merric creates a wall of razor wind in front of him. He then extends his arm and points, sending the wall of wind crashing into the foe. The wall travels the width of a Battlefield platform and drags the foe with it, not unlike Greninja's Water Shuriken with far less distance. However, there exists a momentary delay on the move before the wall begins to move. Walking into the unmoving wind wall causes no damage, so Merric must be careful of foes approaching quickly.

Up Smash: Merric summons a massive cyclone above him, which includes a suction effect. Foes are rapidly hit with multiple attacks from the cyclone before they are tossed from it. Foes are launched horizontally, similar to Jigglypuff's down smash.

Down Smash: Merric moves his hand in a small circle while holding an Elfire tome. The ground immediately around him flashes with red before erupting in two columns of fire.


Aerial Attacks:

Neutral Aerial: A gust of wind twirls around Merric's body as a multi-hit move, not dissimilar to Mewtwo's or Pikachu's neutral aerial.

Forward Aerial: Merric extends an arm, performing a motion similar to Robin's forward aerial, and launches a small blast of wind a small distance.

Back Aerial: Merric turns around and holds his Excalibur tome open with both hands as a green blast of wind erupts from it. Its range is short, but the move is very potent.

Up Aerial: Merric lifts his hand and launches two rising wind blasts which carry foes slightly upwards.

Down Aerial: Merric shoots a massive crescent of wind downward. If an opponent is hit by the center of the crescent, they are meteor smashed.


Pummel and Throws:

Pummel: Merric grabs the foe as wind magic pulses into them with each pummel.

Forward Throw: Merric hurls a chilling wind using his Blizzard tome, launching foes forward.

Back Throw: Merric tosses the foe back and blasts them with his Shaver tome.

Up Throw: Merric tosses the foe up and bombards them with three razor wind blasts from Excalibur.

Down Throw: Merric launches a fireball at the grounded opponent, causing a ground bounce.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: Excalibur - Merric holds his palm face down over the cover of his tome as it pulses with a green glow. After releasing the button, Merric launches a speedy and aimable razor wind blast. Like Pit's neutral special, this move can have its course adjusted as it flies. This move doesn't do a whole lot of damage or knockback, even when fully charged...against grounded opponents. If the opponent is in the air, however, the damage output gets increased significantly and the knockback is greatly expanded, making this a terrifically versatile anti-air projectile.

Side Special: Swarm - Merric takes out a siege tome, Swarm. When the button is held, a small dark energy orb appears about one Battlefield platform's distance away from Merric. By holding down the button and moving the stick, similar to Greninja's Shadow Sneak, you can move the orb further outward, upward to 80% of the length of Final Destination. However, you may not move it closer to Merric than its starting position and Merric cannot move while preparing this attack. When the move is released, a swarm of dark energy bombards any foe trapped in the blast radius in a high-damage, multi-hit move that does more damage the further away the foe is. Because the move isn't restricted to the stage itself, you can also hit foes off stage, so long as they are directly in Merric's line of sight, in an attempt to ruin their recovery. This move shouldn't be used in Free For Alls, however, as Merric is a sitting duck while using it.

Up Special: Shaver - Merric uses a Shaver tome to launch himself upward. This move doesn't cause any damage, but covers a great deal of vertical distance, compensating for Merric's low jumps. As well, as Merric ascends, he gets a wind box around him, pushing away foes that stray too close.

Down Special: Blizzard - Merric stands in place and takes out a Blizzard tome, pointing his hand diagonally downward toward the ground. While holding the move, he can move the control stick both in front of and behind himself, shooting an icy wind blast toward the ground and freezing it. Merric can only have a total amount of ground equivalent to one Battlefield platform frozen at a time. The frozen ground becomes slippery, making foes that step on it likely to trip, allowing for Merric to either counterattack or escape, or forcing them to make an aerial approach. The ground will thaw after a period of time, however. In the air, this move just acts as a chilling wind attack that's launched diagonally downward and doesn't cover a very large distance.

Final Smash: Starlight - In a cinematic Final Smash, Merric traps all foes in range in a magical bind. The background turns into a star-filled void as Merric unleashes a celestial explosion from the Starlight tome, yelling "Divine Starlight, lend me your aid!" and causing massive damage and knockback.


Taunts:
Up Taunt: Merric raises his hand, palm upward, as a small ball of wind forms in his hand.

Side Taunt: Merric begins reading through his tome, lightly chuckling to himself.

Down Taunt: Wind billows around Merric as Excalibur's pages turn and his hood rises up, while saying "Winds, heed me!"


Victory Animations:

Victory 1: Merric tucks Excalibur away into his robe and takes a bow.
Victory 2: Merric descends to the ground, surrounded by powerful gusts of wind and says, "It's been a pleasure."
Victory 3: Merric, with Excalibur drawn and open, says "The magic I've learned must protect everyone."

Victory vs Marth: Victory 3, except the voice line changes to "Don't worry, Marth. I'm sure Elice will be able to patch you up."

Kirby Hat: Kirby gets Merric's hair, hood, and Excalibur tome.

Alternate Costume: His white bishop robes from Mystery of the Emblem.
Lmao I like how you made note of offstage shenanigans for Swarm but didn't mention the possibilities of the Nikita-esque neutral B
 

Guynamednelson

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I really don't understand what the deal is with Reddit
Reddit is now associated with playing Minecraft just to spite Fortnite players.

Anyway, I admit I'm weird about Steve. I've played plenty of Minecraft, even more than I have Banjo-Kazooie (TheCJBrine might remember me having some interest in Minecraft RTX in the social thread last night), but I was more interested in Banjo joining the battle, and even with the bear in I could still do without Steve.
 
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Cosmic77

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Main thing to remember is that Sakurai himself said that no DLC character who was considered got rejected due to a lack of ideas. I don't think it's really a matter of, "Can Steve even work in Smash?" The main obstacle for Steve is the same as almost every other third-party — would Nintendo actually request Sakurai to add him?

Speaking of which, if Nintendo is calling the shots, why on earth would they reject Steve for many of the points this thread brings up? "Bad design", "can't work in Smash", and "too emotionless" are subjective, not to mention that the second one is Sakurai's job to decide. If Nintendo can't picture the moveset, they'll just ask Sakurai, and that goes back to my first point in this post.
 
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DanganZilla5

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But there would be no point to mining them because if you already have the block from the start then you can already place the block down and now there is no reason to mine it because it will go away after a short time. The blocks would be destructible like the games yes but they'd also be solid like the games so unless you can reach on top of the block, you won't be able to grab the ledge, otherwise it would look like characters are clipping into the blocks which doesn't look professional.

.
I imagine there might be a level of strategy to mining the blocks early. Like putting the blocks over a pit then you can mine it to make an enemy fall in. Or putting a small barricade on one side then when the opponent tries to get you from the other side, you can mine a few blocks to escape from the direction where the enemy came from. Things like that. Being able to mine early would also help if you misplace a block. As for the ledge trap, I honestly can't think of a solution apart from them making it so the block can only be placed up to an inch away from the ledge. I guess I concede in that regard, but maybe there is a way that I'm not thinking about.
 

MBRedboy31

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That sounds weird; I’m aware of the whole “Minecraft good, Fortnite bad” meme, but that also seems to be of an immature minority :S That makes sense for those people, though; a lot of them seem immature, too.
Have they forgotten that there are also battle royales in Minecraft? They’re called UHCs (Ultra Hardcore, which refers to the fact that autohealing is disabled in them) but yeah, they perfectly fit the modern videogame definition of what a battle royale is.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Playing Okami for the very first time just makes me want Amaterasu even more. Too bad Dante would be more likely for an Capcom rep not that I wouldn't oppose to him. I just prefer Amaterasu or Wright.
 

Freduardo

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Yeah, as a general rule, if someone puts a ton of effort into a post, a response that isn't inherently supportive should take a similar amount of effort to warrant existing.

Like, literally all it takes to make note of a post's size is looking at it. Pointing out that it's a big post and then not saying anything meaningful about it is useless spam to +1 your post count.

Especially since Kat's really cool and to undermine the post like that is just kinda ****ty. It's a text based forum, people. Read.

My biased side would throw in Eric for Castlevania as well. :p
Unpopular opinion: Portrait of Ruin was probably the most fun I’ve had playing Castlevania... and I’ve played almost every 2d castlevania (I am missing Dawn of Sorrow/Aria of Sorrow and understand them both to be amazing).

I also wish switch would get that multiplayer castlevania game from like a decade ago.
 

Megadoomer

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Playing Okami for the very first time just makes me want Amaterasu even more. Too bad Dante would be more likely for an Capcom rep not that I wouldn't oppose to him. I just prefer Amaterasu or Wright.
While I don't agree with your apparent disappointment over Dante seeming like the most likely Capcom character (play Devil May Cry 3 when you get the chance if you haven't done so; preferably the Switch version), I'm glad to hear that you're playing Okami (I played through it for the first time on the Switch, and I loved it), and Amaterasu would be amazing for Smash.
 

Phoenixio

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(I am missing Dawn of Sorrow/Aria of Sorrow and understand them both to be amazing).
Of all the Castlevanias to miss out on, those are the ones you chose? They're quite good indeed, and it's quite surprising that you missed out on them due to their popularity.

Playing Okami for the very first time just makes me want Amaterasu even more. Too bad Dante would be more likely for an Capcom rep not that I wouldn't oppose to him. I just prefer Amaterasu or Wright.
I'm also not certain Dante is quite as popular as people read on here. It's by no means a small series, but it also doesn't have very extensive history with Nintendo (at least until the Switch). Meaning a character like Amaterasu has decent chances still, since it had... 2 or 3 remakes/ports of its original game already? That definitely shows that there's interest in the game still. Plus, we know Sakurai likes to bring characters with different playstyles, and Amaterasu is ripe with opportunities in that regard.

Anyways, even if people say that Nintendo are the ones to choose, the reality behind it is probably much more complex than blind decisions by corporate overlords. I'm quite certain Sakurai has his say in some regard, like how he probably gave a list of interesting characters to Nintendo executives and they probably had the final say once negotiations with the owners had started. Or even how he could just name drop during a conversation at a bar with some people. He's not just a silent pawn after all, so who knows really? And even in the corporate overlord situation, there's a number of factors that chime in, like branding, that can make even the most popular characters less likely.
 
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Freduardo

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Of all the Castlevanias to miss out on, those are the ones you chose? They're quite good indeed, and it's quite surprising that you missed out on them due to their popularity.
Circle of the Moon, while fun, didn’t really make me psyched for more castlevania on gba, even after I got an SP. So I passed. The DS games pulled me back in, but after dawn of sorrow.

The pre order bonus for portrait of ruin was also excellent, a kickass soundtrack cd, a neat timeline in like NES game plastic cool looking sealed envelope, and a bonus stylus.
 

Michael the Spikester

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While I don't agree with your apparent disappointment over Dante seeming like the most likely Capcom character (play Devil May Cry 3 when you get the chance if you haven't done so; preferably the Switch version), I'm glad to hear that you're playing Okami (I played through it for the first time on the Switch, and I loved it), and Amaterasu would be amazing for Smash.
Who says I'd be disappointed? I actually wouldn't mind Dante who'd bring himself an fun unique moveset. All I said is in terms of Capcom reps I'd just prefer Amateratsu or Phoenix Wright.
I'm also not certain Dante is quite as popular as people read on here. It's by no means a small series, but it also doesn't have very extensive history with Nintendo (at least until the Switch). Meaning a character like Amaterasu has decent chances still, since it had... 2 or 3 remakes/ports of its original game already? That definitely shows that there's interest in the game still. Plus, we know Sakurai likes to bring characters with different playstyles, and Amaterasu is ripe with opportunities in that regard.

Anyways, even if people say that Nintendo are the ones to choose, the reality behind it is probably much more complex than blind decisions by corporate overlords. I'm quite certain Sakurai has his say in some regard, like how he probably gave a list of interesting characters to Nintendo executives and they probably had the final say once negotiations with the owners had started. Or even how he could just name drop during a conversation at a bar with some people. He's not just a silent pawn after all, so who knows really? And even in the corporate overlord situation, there's a number of factors that chime in, like branding, that can make even the most popular characters less likely.
I do hope you're right. Because Amaterasu in Smash would be great to have.
 
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SNEKeater

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I'm also not certain Dante is quite as popular as people read on here. It's by no means a small series, but it also doesn't have very extensive history with Nintendo (at least until the Switch). Meaning a character like Amaterasu has decent chances still, since it had... 2 or 3 remakes/ports of its original game already? That definitely shows that there's interest in the game still. Plus, we know Sakurai likes to bring characters with different playstyles, and Amaterasu is ripe with opportunities in that regard.

Anyways, even if people say that Nintendo are the ones to choose, the reality behind it is probably much more complex than blind decisions by corporate overlords. I'm quite certain Sakurai has his say in some regard, like how he probably gave a list of interesting characters to Nintendo executives and they probably had the final say once negotiations with the owners had started. Or even how he could just name drop during a conversation at a bar with some people. He's not just a silent pawn after all, so who knows really? And even in the corporate overlord situation, there's a number of factors that chime in, like branding, that can make even the most popular characters less likely.
Well, not having history with Nintendo doesn't mean that the series or the character aren't popular enough. These are two different things. Maybe the character isn't super popular among Nintendo fans, that's understandable, but he's still a popular character overall.

I love Okami and Amaterasu in Smash would be dope, and the game at least receives the port treatment from Capcom, they know that Okami has enough following for that, but at the same time they don't seem to believe that a new game would bring enough profit for them.
Personally, I don't think Amaterasu would make it before Dante, Wright or a Monster Hunter character. But Amaterasu would for sure bring some new things, or at least she would have the potential to do that.
 

Garteam

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Fire Emblem's 30th Anniversary is on Monday.

Dread from it, run from it, it will come. And it will be glorious.
 

SKX31

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Anyways, even if people say that Nintendo are the ones to choose, the reality behind it is probably much more complex than blind decisions by corporate overlords. I'm quite certain Sakurai has his say in some regard, like how he probably gave a list of interesting characters to Nintendo executives and they probably had the final say once negotiations with the owners had started. Or even how he could just name drop during a conversation at a bar with some people. He's not just a silent pawn after all, so who knows really? And even in the corporate overlord situation, there's a number of factors that chime in, like branding, that can make even the most popular characters less likely.
TBF, it's a tad bit more complicated than just "corporate overlord". Sure, there are those CEOs that fit "corporate overlord" to a T (Activision-Blizzard's Bobby Kotick and Konami's current top brass are great examples) but those aren't the only type of high-rankers.

Nintendo's current President (and Sakurai's boss) Shuntaro Furukawa certainly doesn't fit that: he grew up with the Famicom, joined Nintendo around the same time as Sakurai and worked at TPC and NoE before getting to oversee Ultimate (as well as become President). Yes, he climbed the ranks as a marketing guy, but he (and other Nintendo execs - this includes men like Miyamoto by the by) is fully okay with FP1 being :ultjoker::ulthero::ultbanjokazooie::ult_terry::ultbyleth:*. EDIT: What I want to say here is that Furukawa's not overlording willy nilly over Sakurai - Joker and Terry's inclusions was (partly) due to Sakurai's personal taste, and one could argue the same with B-K since B-K was considered for Melee.

I'm a lot more comfortable with Nintendo's executives overall than say A-B's or Konami's because Nintendo's organizational culture (I'm a state science grad, I'm gonna use this term!) doesn't allow corporate overlords like Kotick to steer things willy nilly. Nintendo's execs are not perfect of course, but again, rather people like Iwata and Miyamoto than those that fit the corporate overlord image.

*(Would you look at that, Furukawa was also executive producer for 3H.)

Also an update (alongside a follow-up on an earlier post of mine):

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Further confirms that Nintendo's gaining important ground in South Korea.

As for the follow up, it comes from reading this article discussing Animal Crossing in China. Notable things in that article:

* The de-listing New Horizons got wasn't just because of Hong Kong protesters using New Horizon as a protest vehicle. It's also due to coronavirus-related stuff (like people building temperature checks in New Horizons) and "inappropriate" uses of Communist Party figureheads. Still, Animal Crossing continues to be sold in China - often under the counter.

* There's a good chance that a decent portion of Japanese Switch hardware and game sales actually wind up in Chinese hands. Most console-related stuff is imported, and it's really really easy to import (since stores are wholly online and loopholes are used).

Qouting from the article: "Official data from Famitsu claimed the game sold almost two million copies in Japan in the three days following launch. But the fact is that a portion of those copies were in fact sold in China, and nobody seems to be able to say how many exactly. " The writer does consider one million AC units in China "not an unrealistic estimate".
 
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