Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Guynamednelson]

So let’s have fun with it! Play the game by saying your top 5 galarian pokemon reps for smash:

5) Rillaboom (Starters are traditional, except grass hasn’t had one yet, has a gmax form for final smash. Probably the most likely)
4) Wooloo (because there needed to be some reason your rival kept throwing out his damn Wooloo)
3) Corviknight
2) Galarian Rapidash
1) SirFetch’d

5. Sirfetch'd
4. Scorbunny (not Cinderace)
3. Gigantamax Charizard as its Final Smash when it goes solo again in Smash 6
2. Gigantamax Pikachu as its Final Smash
1. Gigantamax Eevee as you guessed it

 

[DarthEnderX]

from devil may cry manga, videogame concept art and literal anime.

None of which is from the actual games, which is the only thing Sakurai cares about.

But hey, it's cool to know Master Chief counts as an anime character because of that Halo anime!
Pictured: An anime swordsman, apparently.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I will die on the Young Impa hill.

It's my big hope, and it's technically possible even.

 

[Will]

None of which is from the actual games, which is the only thing Sakurai cares about.

oh lawd he comin

 

[Freduardo]

5. Dracovish
4. Centiskorch
3. Mr. Rime
2. Falinks
1. Flapple

Falinks may not have made my list, but he still makes me wish to call you a man of culture.

 

[DarthEnderX]

oh lawd he comin

Ash-Greninja was in Sun/Moon before it appeared in Ultimate.

 

[blackghost]

Honestly I don't see the problem with Sakurai leaving, a lot of franchise see director change and are doing very fine, like Zelda is probably doing better than ever without Miyamoto.

the reaons why breathe of the wild and odyssey took such great risks was because of changing leadership and directors plus having a much younger dev team. nintnedo is changing. a shooter is its new favorite IP to push, they made a game with mario wielding guns, they have stepped in to revive dead franchises that are actually rather violent in no more heroes and bayonetta.

sometimes change is good but people will always fear it. hearthstone is another example that has improved since the original creator and designers have left.
to be a fair post i do need to add that halo under 343 has not been the same as it was under bungie but bungie without halo hasnt been impressive either.

 

[Goombaic]

Ash-Greninja was in Sun/Moon before it appeared in Ultimate.

Ash-Greninja was in the anime before it appeared in Sun/Moon.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ash-Greninja was in the anime before it appeared in Sun/Moon.

Will posted Ash-Greninja as though it disproves Sakurai only caring about what's in the games, but it doesn't, because he was already IN the games when Sakurai decided to add him to Smash.

Ash-Greninja is in Smash because Game Freak cares about the anime, not Sakurai. They're the ones that took him from the anime and put him in games. And if they hadn't, I don't believe it would be in Smash today.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

None of which is from the actual games, which is the only thing Sakurai cares about.

Advent Children Cloud?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The thing is, Ash-Greninja was made for the anime. Having a small part in a demo means... nothing.

Sakurai simply didn't care about the origins of it. It starting as a game series however may have something to do with it, but it's not like he cares if it has anime relations or not. It's a core part of the Pokemon franchise.

 

[Cosmic77]

Sakurai has been including notable references to the anime long before Ash Greninja. All of the Pokemon cries have the Pokemon saying their name rather than whatever sound they make in the games. Ash and several of his friends are brought up by name in Pokemon Trainer's Smash 4 trophy. Both Mewtwo and Lucario can speak, which is something they've never done in the main series games. Heck, Lucario literally has the same English VA as the Lucario in the Mystery of Mew movie.

Still, Pokemon is one of the only franchises in Smash with several notable nods to media outside video games. Anything else has been extremely small by comparison, so I wouldn't get your hopes up for an "anime rep", however you decide what fits that quota.

 

[YoshiandToad]

—
So I’m reading posts talking about a gen 8 pokemon being the most likely first party rep past arms in the demo.

So let’s have fun with it! Play the game by saying your top 5 galarian pokemon reps for smash:

5. Rillaboom I guess? I dunno I only really have four I'd like in Smash and number one is a stretch.
4. Scorbunny. But specifically Scorbunny not Cinderace.
3. Sirfetch'd
2. Obstagoon
1. Meowth. But the gift Kanto Meowth that becomes LOOOOOOONNNNG.

 

[Goombaic]

Jigglypuff wouldn't have been in Smash 64 if it didn't have a prominent role in the anime.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Advent Children Cloud?

Was playable in Dissidia before Smash.

Edit: Actually, was in several games prior to Smash.

 

[Will]

Ash-Greninja was in Sun/Moon before it appeared in Ultimate.

Was playable in Dissidia before Smash.

I think you're making a completely different argument from us. And because of that, it's not worth arguing over.

We're talking about anime content put in Smash in general, you're talking about anime content that was put in other games prior to Smash. However, the core argument from us is that, y'know, they put stuff from non-gaming content in Smash regardless.

 

[DarthEnderX]

We're talking about anime content put in Smash in general, you're talking about anime content that was put in other games prior to Smash.

Well, that's not what I was talking about when you decided to quote me. I was talking about whether Dante in Smash would count as an anime swordsman, when he's not an anime character WITHIN any of his games. And since Sakurai only cares about things that are IN the games, things like DMC's anime adaptation would not factor into how the character is represented in Smash. And thus, he's not going to be an anime swordsman.

However, the core argument from us is that, y'know, they put stuff from non-gaming content in Smash regardless.

But not until AFTER it's been put in the games. Making it, ya know, NOT non-gaming content anymore. Once Ash-Greninja showed up in Sun/Moon and AC Cloud showed up in DoC, they BECAME gaming content.

 

[Hinata]

But not until AFTER it's been put in the games. Making it, ya know, NOT non-gaming content anymore. Once Ash-Greninja showed up in Sun/Moon and AC Cloud showed up in DoC, they BECAME gaming content.

Which means that Goku can be in Smash, because even if he debuted in an anime, once he appeared in Dragon Ball: Dragon Daihikyō in 1986, he BECAME gaming content.

 

[Koopaul]

There's a big difference between a video game character that comes with anime references and, you know, an actual anime character.

 

[Will]

Well, that's not what I was talking about when you decided to quote me. I was talking about whether Dante in Smash would count as an anime swordsman, when he's not an anime character WITHIN any of his games. And since Sakurai only cares about things that are IN the games, things like DMC's anime adaptation would not factor into how the character is represented in Smash. And thus, he's not going to be an anime swordsman.

Well ****, my bad. Define an "anime character", in your terms though.

But not until AFTER it's been put in the games. Making it, ya know, NOT non-gaming content anymore. Once Ash-Greninja showed up in Sun/Moon and AC Cloud showed up in DoC, they BECAME gaming content.

No, that just makes it anime content that appears in games. When Spawn shows up in Mortal Kombat, does he stop being a comic book character?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This is a really dumb debate. Dante is very anime

Spoiler: I mean...Look at him.

However, he gives off a very different vibe from the likes of Hero, Link, and the cast of Fire Emblem, especially with his appearance in Devil May Cry V, which is much less anime inspired. Should Dante be a DLC character, there will be very little if any push-back from the "anime swordfighter bad" crowd, especially since this is a character most people actually want.

Here's a question that I think is more worth people's time: Do you think they'll use Dante's appearance from Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Devil May Cry V, or both? If both, which do you think would be the default?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Does Ash count as (sorta) appearing in the games since he’s Ash-Greninja’s original trainer? And the Smash 4 Pokémon Trainer trophy referencing him?

Has the anime become a canon alternate universe? Could we get Team Rocket’s Double Trouble in Smash, due to this + making actual physical appearances in a couple of games (though Meowth doesn’t talk in them for some reason) and already getting Anime Lucario and a Melee trophy of Anime Misty?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

“Anime swordsman” is a phrase used to cast characters in a negative light and not an actual classification of a character anyway. It’s mainly used to describe Fire Emblem or character the user of the word happens to not like.

Whether Dante is an “anime swordsman” (Spoiler: No, because that would suddenly mean any sword user is now “anime swordsman”) or not is irrelevant to overall selection.

I don’t know if I’m just cranky today or just tired of all the same tired phrases and arguments happening as if a character would be left out because they use a sword. There’s so much more to Smash than appearances, even though that’s what it seems like a portion of the Smash speculation base gets fixated on.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Define an "anime character", in your terms though.

Oh no thank you. That's just a recipe for owning myself.

No, that just makes it anime content that appears in games. When Spawn shows up in Mortal Kombat, does he stop being a comic book character?

That's not the same. You're talking about a thing that started out as not a video game, then showed up in video games.

I'm talking about things that started out in video games, were expanded upon outside of said games, and then had those expansions get added back into the games.

There's an entire nother level there that's not present in characters like Spawn and Goku.

Here's a question that I think is more worth people's time: Do you think they'll use Dante's appearance from Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Devil May Cry V, or both? If both, which do you think would be the default?

Personally hoping for DMC1 w/ Rebellion Dante as main, DMC5 w/ Devil Sword Dante as alt. But I admit DMC3 is more likely, as it's the one Capcom keeps using for xovers. I don't particularly care for that one though as I think he looks dumb without a shirt under his coat.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Plus Mortal Kombat 11 is way, WAY more different from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. At this point its about celebrating gaming hence all the 3rd parties we've gotten and Everyone is Here!.

 

[SNEKeater]

This is a really dumb debate. Dante is very anime
However, he gives off a very different vibe from the likes of Hero, Link, and the cast of Fire Emblem, especially with his appearance in Devil May Cry V, which is much less anime inspired. Should Dante be a DLC character, there will be very little if any push-back from the "anime swordfighter bad" crowd, especially since this is a character most people actually want.

Here's a question that I think is more worth people's time: Do you think they'll use Dante's appearance from Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Devil May Cry V, or both? If both, which do you think would be the default?

He should have at least 2 alts. Knowing Sakurai I guess he would choose DMC1 or DMC3 Dante as the default. 3 is probably the most iconic version of Dante, but DMC5 Dante is my fave version of him. I'd like to see at least 3 and 5, but the best scenario would be having Dante with 4 alts:
- DMC1 + an alt based on Trish
- DMC3 + an alt based on Vergil
- DMC4 + an alt based on Lady
- DMC5 + an alt based on Nero

Or something like that. I guess it wouldn't be easy, his different designs could be a problem for animations and hitboxes, I guess.

 

[Curious Villager]

Does Ash count as (sorta) appearing in the games since he’s Ash-Greninja’s original trainer? And the Smash 4 Pokémon Trainer trophy referencing him?

Depends if you headcanon the trainer walking behind Pikachu in the original Smash 64 opening to be Ash due to similar shoes and all...

 

[Will]

Oh no thank you. That's just a recipe for owning myself.

You're the last person I'd expect to stand down from a challenge.

That's not the same. You're talking about a thing that started out as not a video game, then showed up in video games.

I'm talking about things that started out in video games, were expanded upon outside of said games, and then had those expansions show up in games.

There's an entire nother level there that's not present in characters like Spawn and Goku.

It has Ash in the name, and there's no Ash in the Pokemon games. When Ash-Greninja shows up, it's referencing the anime. It doesn't replace it as gaming content, it makes it anime content that cameoed in other games.

Or is Ash also a gaming character because he shows up in some of the spinoffs?

 

[HansShotFirst20]

5. Inteleon
4. Cinderace
3. Obstagoon
2. Dragapult
1 Zacian/Zamazenta (Counting them as one since I feel like it's cheap to have them occupy two spots on the list).

Finally, someone else who doesn't worship Toxtricity. I just don't get the design -- it just looks like a punk kid colored in a bipedal Swampert.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You're the last person I'd expect to stand down from a challenge.

He just doesn't want to get screwed over by everyone's definition of anime

see: Do Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra count as anime or cartoon debates.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That said if anything anyone that wants Goku for an video game fighting game. Injustice is your series.

He and Izuku/All-Might are the only anime characters I feel would fit perfectly.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That said if anything anyone that wants Goku for an video game fighting game. Injustice is your series.

Dragon Ball Fighterz: "Guess I'll die..."

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Dragon Ball Fighterz: "Guess I'll die..."

I mean in terms of another series where he's an guest character.

 

[OnyanRings]

That said if anything anyone that wants Goku for an video game fighting game. Injustice is your series.

He and Izuku/All-Might are the only anime characters I feel would fit perfectly.

Also you could settle the Superman v. Goku debate yourself.
Something a thousand of internet warriors still fight about.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Also you could settle the Superman v. Goku debate yourself.
Something a thousand of internet warriors still fight about.

Exactly, that's actually another reason, I just didn't mention it but thanks for pointing it out.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean in terms of another series where he's an guest character.

I know. Hence the PAC-MAN. Goku would be pretty funny in the injustice series though.

Everyone: "This is a world bound by the laws of phys-"
Goku (whilst flying): "KI LASERS!!!"

 

[StrangeKitten]

3. Gigantamax Charizard as its Final Smash when it goes solo again in Smash 6

Why would he go solo again? Transforming characters were removed in Smash 4 because of 3DS limitations and wanting to keep the roster the same on the Wii U. Obviously, this is no longer the case on the Switch, and I doubt it'll be the case on whatever the next console is. Pokemon Trainer is better together. They represent each stage in a 3-stage evolution, switching Pokemon is something you do all the time in the games, and they make for one of the most well-rounded and adaptable characters by covering one another's weaknesses. They're probably the best at representing their games, like how Robin and Byleth reflect FE's mechanics more accurately than the other characters. There are no tricky rights to deal with in bringing Squirtle and Ivysaur back unlike, say, Cloud or Snake. Nor would bringing them back overload the roster with Pokemon, since they all share a slot. I see no reason why they wouldn't return.

 

[Cosmic77]

Finally, someone else who doesn't worship Toxtricity. I just don't get the design -- it just looks like a punk kid colored in a bipedal Swampert.

Toxtricity is okay. Not in my top 5 favorite Galar Pokemon, but I do think the concept of a guitarist strumming on their chest to build up an electrical charge was unique.

In terms of Smash though, I feel like people may be exaggerating how likely it is. It hasn't really gotten that big push people were expecting when they learned about its Gigantamax form – it essentially came and went. Popularity isn't as much of a deciding factor as people think it is; hardly any of the 10 Pokemon in Smash got in because Sakurai knew they were popular. Then there's the moveset, and I haven't really seen anyone create a moveset that's seems believable. I'm more interested in stuff like tilts and Smash attacks than I am specials (specials have a lot of elbow room while other attacks have to fit specific parameters), and unlike the last three Pokemon who got in Smash, Toxtricity wasn't designed after some type fighter. Obviously that's not something that can completely hold him back as seen with Jigglypuff, but I do feel like Sakurai has recently developed a tendency to choose Pokemon who can naturally fit in a fighting game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

In terms of Smash though, I feel like people may be exaggerating how likely it is. It hasn't really gotten that big push people were expecting when they learned about its Gigantamax form – it essentially came and went.

Wait its Giganamax form is available now? Well in that case I'll put his chances at 0% since it's not a Pokémon they're pushing at all.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Wait its Giganamax form is available now? Well in that case I'll put his chances at 0% since it's not a Pokémon they're pushing at all.

Yeah, couple months ago now.

At this point, Gigantamax Melmetal is the only one that hasn't showed up yet.