Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also what is it with these FANMADE rules as to witch characters can and can't get in? As far as I'm concerned there was never a rule saying that assist trophies deconfirm characters.

Actually this rule is official. There was a post by Sakurai that stated that (paraphrasing) "Waluigi joins the fight as an Assist Trophy! Naturally this means he won't be playable". Spirits, however, have no official statement or precedent on disconfirmations.

Kinda the reason I don't understand Rex fans.

Xenoblade 2 is not a good Xenoblade game.

I mean, even if I'm a fan of a series, I ain't gonna request characters from bad entries in the series.

Like, I'm a fan of Final Fantasy, but I ain't out here requesting Firion...or Lightning.

3 reasons. Either:

1. They like the character.
2. They like the game.
3. They find what they could bring to the table to be interesting.

 

[DarthEnderX]

As one of the five Final Fantasy II fans in existence, I feel morally obligated to say that it's a cool game you guys.

And I feel morally obligated to say that character progression system is THE WORST!

 

[masterluigi1]

Actually this rule is official. There was a post by Sakurai that stated that (paraphrasing) "Waluigi joins the fight as an Assist Trophy! Naturally this means he won't be playable". Spirits, however, have no official statement or precedent on disconfirmations.


3 reasons. Either:

1. They like the character.
2. They like the game.
3. They find what they could bring to the table to be interesting.

Did you even read what I said? It means he wasn't planned for the BASE GAME

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Hey, ARMs is free right now.

Take ten minutes of training.

Then go challenge someone who was playing the past two years.

If you lose, you can admit how wrong your statement on how long it takes to get the depth of ARMs is.

That doesn't inherently make ARMS deeper that a player who has played longer is better than one who hasn't though. Checkers is a lot simpler than Chess, but a more experienced player will still beat new players in game.

 

[I.D.]

Damn, I login today and find entire pages of a certain someone crying about ARMS and XB2 and they aren't even in the game yet! Imagine when they actually get in

Kainé's outfit is significantly better than any XB2 design because there's an in-universe reason why she dresses like that, though it involves her big twist

Yeah, the reason being Yoko Taro loves fanservice and that your biases are both annoying and immeasurable. For the record, I know the twist behind Kaine as I've actually played the game, unlike most Nier fans.

 

[Will]

3 reasons. Either:

1. They like the character.
2. They like the game.
3. They find what they could bring to the table to be interesting.

I don't know how you would unless you've only watched ****ing harem anime with a shoddy british dub all your life.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hey, ARMs is free right now.

Take ten minutes of training.

Then go challenge someone who was playing the past two years.

If you lose, you can admit how wrong your statement on how long it takes to get the depth of ARMs is.

There's a difference between experience and depth. Arm wrestling isn't deep but someone who doesn't train their muscles for it will always lose to a professional boxer or some ****. Your deepest tech is "pressure them while they're down" at it's most basic level

 

[JamesDNaux]

You guys are confused, Xenoblade 2 is the good sequel, X is the garbage fire.

Neither hold a candle to the original though.

 

[Opossum]

Well are you just gonna say randomly that there's evidence without.. actually proving anything or are you gonna show me lol

It's all already been stated.

The Gematsu Leak was absolutely legit. The only two things that it said would be in that WEREN'T in were Chrom and the Chorus Kids. Due to various Sakurai interviews we know that Chrom was initially considered for playability, to the point where Sakurai even made him a moveset, but in the end he went with Robin. When the Wii U version came out, there was series emblem data for Rhythm Heaven in the CHARACTER, not stage, section, implying that Rhythm Heaven was going to get a character. Putting the two and two together isn't rocket science.

 

[Will]

You guys are confused, Xenoblade 2 is the good sequel, X is the garbage fire.

I cannot confirm nor deny, I never had a Wii U so I never played X.

But X looks leagues more interesting, I wanna beat **** up with a mecha bro.

 

[MrElectroG64]

All I'm saying is that ARMS will never have anything that comes even remotely close to Evo Moment 37, Woshige's pop off, Iron Man's infinite or even Heartia taking a selfie midmatch.

who cares?

 

[masterluigi1]

There's a difference between experience and depth. Arm wrestling isn't deep but someone who doesn't train their muscles for it will always lose to a professional boxer or some ****. Your deepest tech is "pressure them while they're down" at it's most basic level

Since when has depth determined whether a game is fighting or not? This arguement is laughable

 

[MagnesD3]

I actually see the point that ARMS doesn't really seem like it belongs in the umbrella of traditional fighting games much like Smash doesn't fit with them particularly well either. They're both "fighting games" in a technical barebones sense of you can fight one on one, but they don't actually share a ton in common with your Tekken, Guity Gear, and Street Fighters of the world.

I think "party fighter" would be appropriate for games like Power Stone, Smash, and ARMS. They tend to generally focus on a degree of enjoyable accessibility and whacky antics as opposed to tried and true mechanical mastery most traditional 2D fighters do. They can be distilled down to a more basic fighter with certain rule changes, but that's rarely been as much of the focus.

I think party Fighter isn’t even detailed enough. There’s tradional 2d fighters, anime fighters, team fighters, 3d fighters, platform fighters (smash) and arena fighters to cover the main categories, then you add details like party, motion control, 1st person, etc..

 

[Idon]

I cannot confirm nor deny, I never had a Wii U so I never played X.

But X looks leagues more interesting, I wanna beat **** up with a mecha bro.

Trust me, it takes a long ass time till you even get a mech...
then you gotta get a license to actually have it fly...
and when you do all that, it doesn't feel as satisfying as you'd hope. Stick to Daemon X Machina.

 

[Proceleon]

Ya know what, I'm going 50/50 with Mii costumes for the sole reason we have Samus and Link costumes which were added after they were playable, as well as Chrom and K. Rool being vice versa, so Mii Costumes are kinda just added as and when they feel like it.

 

[JamesDNaux]

ARMS' depth is laughably pathetic but that doesn't mean it's not a fighting game.

There's literally a fighting game with two buttons. Yes, two buttons, there's not even any movement.

I cannot confirm nor deny, I never had a Wii U so I never played X.

But X looks leagues more interesting, I wanna beat **** up with a mecha bro.

It's just a bad game regardless of the Xenoblade branding, I couldn't even get to the mechs because my progression was blocked.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Damn, I login today and find entire pages of a certain someone crying about ARMS and XB2 and they aren't even in the game yet! Imagine when they actually get in


Yeah, the reason being Yoko Taro loves fanservice and that your biases are both annoying and immeasurable. For the record, I know the twist behind Kaine as I've actually played the game, unlike most Nier fans.

Idk man Kainé actually DOES have more than 'girl hot', even if I'm admittedly willing to give Yoko Taro a free pass because he admits he's horny.

Spoiler

Kainé dresses like that to exaggerate her feminine traits to go "AM WOMAN" due to constantly being discriminated for being intersex. This is explicitly canon and mentioned in Grimoire Nier, a book. Many transwomen exaggerate their femininity in a similar manner

 

[masterluigi1]

It's all already been stated.

The Gematsu Leak was absolutely legit. The only two things that it said would be in that WEREN'T in were Chrom and the Chorus Kids. Due to various Sakurai interviews we know that Chrom was initially considered for playability, to the point where Sakurai even made him a moveset, but in the end he went with Robin. When the Wii U version came out, there was series emblem data for Rhythm Heaven in the CHARACTER, not stage, section, implying that Rhythm Heaven was going to get a character. Putting the two and two together isn't rocket science.

It's all already been stated.

The Gematsu Leak was absolutely legit. The only two things that it said would be in that WEREN'T in were Chrom and the Chorus Kids. Due to various Sakurai interviews we know that Chrom was initially considered for playability, to the point where Sakurai even made him a moveset, but in the end he went with Robin. When the Wii U version came out, there was series emblem data for Rhythm Heaven in the CHARACTER, not stage, section, implying that Rhythm Heaven was going to get a character. Putting the two and two together isn't rocket science.

saying an obvious popular protagonist like chrom was CONSIDERED Does not prove that leak correct. And what was this "data" you speak of?

 

[Will]

Stick to Daemon X Machina.

will do

It's just a bad game regardless of the Xenoblade branding, I couldn't even get to the mechs because my progression was blocked.

sounds wack

Spoiler: Xenoblade

i wonder why x was even given the xenoblade branding considering a lack of connections between it and the main games. maybe we'll get an X2 who knows

 

[I.D.]

For the record, here's what Kaine looks like:

https://www.fantasycloud.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/kaine.png

And this is the last thing I have to say on the matter

 

[Cutie Gwen]

saying an obvious popular protagonist like chrom was CONSIDERED Does not prove that leak correct. And what was this "data" you speak of?

Datamining shows that Rhythm Heaven had a series icon which ultimately went unused, only franchises with playable characters had series icons in Smash 4

 

[Freduardo]

There's a difference between experience and depth. Arm wrestling isn't deep but someone who doesn't train their muscles for it will always lose to a professional boxer or some ****. Your deepest tech is "pressure them while they're down" at it's most basic level

Also charge punch. Also charge punch while blocking? Are you a character that can move while blocking (there is one) what a nice approach you’ve been given to bait out a throw. Which punch are you using? What are they using? Can you overpower with a heavier punch? Can you swarm with a lighter punch?

ARMs has plenty of depth. And you bring up a great way someone can see the depths of the game.

Try Boxing. It’s similar depths, reading your opponent and all that stuff.

Like a fighting game.

You may not like it, but saying ARMs has no depth compared to other fighting games because it’s not combo heavy is like a Call of Duty player saying Splatoon has no depth because its score isn’t based in kill count.

Hey guys, instead of making fighter pass predictions why we don't talk about our "ideal" Fighters Pass? Our ultimate wishlist? I'll begin:
FP1: Min Min (ARMS)
FP2: Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)
FP3: Shantae
FP4: Geno (Super Mario RPG)
FP5: Reiji and Xiaomu (Namco X Capcom/Project X Zone)
FP6: *Insert requested character*

FP1: Lola Pop (Lanky Kong Echo)
FP2: Mike Jones (Star Tropics)
FP3: Geno (SMRPG)
FP4: Mii Athlete Fighter (new type of mii fighter. Movesets based around wii sports/resort/club)
FP5: Crono (Trigger)
FP6: Ring Fit Adventurer (Meant to be Played with Ring Con.)

 

[Cosmic77]

Ya know what, I'm going 50/50 with Mii costumes for the sole reason we have Samus and Link costumes which were added after they were playable, as well as Chrom and K. Rool being vice versa, so Mii Costumes are kinda just added as and when they feel like it.

One of the main reasons for adding Mii costumes is so we can play as characters who weren't able to make the cut.

Now I don't know how they'd treat a costume like Geno's since his was made a long time ago, but a brand new Mii costume that was just recently added is probably a deconfirmation. I don't think they'd sell a Dante Mii costume when he's eventually going to be added as a character

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also charge punch. Also charge punch while blocking? Are you a character that can move while blocking (there is one) what a nice approach you’ve been given to bait out a throw. Which punch are you using? What are they using? Can you overpower with a heavier punch? Can you swarm with a lighter punch?

ARMs has plenty of depth. And you bring up a great way someone can see the depths of the game.

Try Boxing. It’s similar depths, reading your opponent and all that stuff.

Like a fighting game.

You may not like it, but saying ARMs has no depth compared to other fighting games because it’s not combo heavy is like a Call of Duty player saying Splatoon has no depth because its score isn’t based in kill count.



FP1: Lola Pop (Lanky Kong Echo)
FP2: Mike Jones (Star Tropics)
FP3: Geno (SMRPG)
FP4: Mii Athlete Fighter (new type of mii fighter. Movesets based around wii sports/resort/club)
FP5: Crono (Trigger)
FP6: Ring Fit Adventurer (Meant to be Played with Ring Con.)

SamSho is a very neutral heavy game yet that's deeper than anything ARMS wishes it could provide lmao

 

[MagnesD3]

Datamining shows that Rhythm Heaven had a series icon which ultimately went unused, only franchises with playable characters had series icons in Smash 4

It’s still crazy to me they just dropped the concept, one would think a fighter based on rhythm would intrigue someone like sakurai

 

[Will]

For the record, here's what Kaine looks like:

https://www.fantasycloud.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/kaine.png

And this is the last thing I have to say on the matter

Kaine be like

 

[Krankees]

All I'm saying is that ARMS will never have anything that comes even remotely close to Evo Moment 37, Woshige's pop off, Iron Man's infinite or even Heartia taking a selfie midmatch.

True but it did at least have Mr. Yabuki at the 2017 ARMS Open Invitational

 

[Idon]

will do


sounds wack

Spoiler: Xenoblade

i wonder why x was even given the xenoblade branding considering a lack of connections between it and the main games. maybe we'll get an X2 who knows

For one, marketing. It's why all megaten games localized have the moniker "Shin Megami Tensei" despite not being, y'know, SMT games. You tie all the games together with a common name, in this case Xenoblade, and you'll have consumers draw connections between them and buy them more easily than presenting something unproven and new.

For two, gameplay. It's basically XC gameplay with some more bells and whistles.

 

[Freduardo]

SamSho is a very neutral heavy game yet that's deeper than anything ARMS wishes it could provide lmao

Wouldn’t know, not as acquainted with the franchise outside of king of fighters entries and not the type of idiot that just slags off games they don’t play/know anything about.

 

[masterluigi1]

Datamining shows that Rhythm Heaven had a series icon which ultimately went unused, only franchises with playable characters had series icons in Smash 4

An icon? That's it? correct me if I'm wrong but didn't animal crossing have an icon in brawl back when sakurai considered a rep impossible?

 

[Opossum]

saying an obvious popular protagonist like chrom was CONSIDERED Does not prove that leak correct. And what was this "data" you speak of?

Like the literal datamines of the Wii U version, which is how we know for a fact that a Rhythm Heaven character was planned and that Brain Age was meant to get a stage.

This is ignoring the Sneaky Spirits in Smash Run.
This is ignoring how nobody would've just guessed Wii Fit Trainer.
This is ignoring how the Gematsu leak specifically called the Miis Mii Fighters instead of just Miis.
This is ignoring how it said Lucas was being cut and resold as DLC due to time constraints.
This is ignoring that Greninja was listed as Gen VI Pokémon, with Sakurai later confirming that Greninja was initially a placeholder.
This is ignoring how it got Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Mega Man, the Mii Fighters, Little Mac, Pac-Man, Palutena, and Shulk by name.
You say Chrom was a popular guess. You know who else was? Ridley. K. Rool. You know who wasn't on the leak? Ridley. K. Rool. You know who wasn't in Smash 4? Ridley. K. Rool.

The Gematsu leak was absolutely legit, but came from an early point in development, as noted by Chrom being listed and Greninja being a placeholder, both of which have been confirmed to have been the case early in development. To look at all of this, ALL of this, and say that the leak was fake is bafflingly dumb. It's plain as day that it was a legitimate leak.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

If we have to get another first party in this pass, Rhythm Heaven would be one of the more ideal ones... but it kind of seems like that's a series Nintendo has also struggled to drum up much interest in. I'm not sure they would go with a big push for it at this point when it hasn't really performed particularly well and a new game doesn't really seem like its on the horizon either.

 

[wynn728]

Kinda the reason I don't understand Rex fans.

Xenoblade 2 is not a good Xenoblade game.

I mean, even if I'm a fan of a series, I ain't gonna request characters from bad entries in the series.

Like, I'm a fan of Final Fantasy, but I ain't out here requesting Firion...or Lightning.

People have different opinions. A product isn't meant for everyone.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It’s still crazy to me they just dropped the concept, one would think a fighter based on rhythm would intrigue someone like sakurai

Probably because Sakurai realized timed hits as a mechanic is absolute garbage in fighting games. Notice how Smash's only moves with timed hits are Deep Breathing and Alolan Whip, one isn't an attack move and the other has you start the timing after landing the hit, when people suggest timed hits they never take lingering hitboxes into account or extended hitboxes, which again, the only timed hit attacks in Smash don't have to worry about at all due to how they're imolemented

An icon? That's it? correct me if I'm wrong but didn't animal crossing have an icon in brawl back when sakurai considered a rep impossible?

Stages had icons in Brawl but not in Smash 4, Rhythm Heaven is the only unused series icon to be completely new instead of leftover data

Wouldn’t know, not as acquainted with the franchise outside of king of fighters entries and not the type of idiot that just slags off games they don’t play/know anything about.

Look man if you consider ARMS mechanicly deep I'm worried that you'll faint when seeing **** like Guilty Gear

 

[DarthEnderX]

For the record, here's what Kaine looks like:

https://www.fantasycloud.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/kaine.png

And this is the last thing I have to say on the matter

Kaine is not for good boys and girls.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't know how you would unless you've only watched ****ing harem anime with a shoddy british dub all your life.

Um...no. The gameplay is fun and the story is good (the romantic subplots that don't involve Pyra are pretty pointless, but they don't bog it down for me).

You guys are confused, Xenoblade 2 is the good sequel, X is the garbage fire.

OBJECTION!!!

Xenoblade Chronicles X was great. The exploration is pretty fun (though the number of things that will utterly destroy you does turn it into a bit of a stealth game) and the combat is the most fun I've had in a Xenoblade Chronicles game (though admittedly I haven't played the first game due to the Wii version being rare and the port not running on a regular 3Ds.). It also had some good stories to tell, they're just not the main story.

I hope it gets a remaster to iron out its issues and flesh out the main story a bit.

and when you do all that, it doesn't feel as satisfying as you'd hope. Stick to Daemon X Machina.

Yeah they really shouldn't have stuck endgame monsters that are aggressive to skells everywhere. Would have made flying so much more fun if you didn't have to play Metal Gear like you do on the ground.

Also turn flight into a double jump. I don't want to here Don't Worry everytime I need to jump.

 

[Will]

People have different opinions. A product isn't meant for everyone.

This is the Smash Bros. community, we know that is objectively false here. Everyone loves Fire Emblem!

 

[MagnesD3]

Probably because Sakurai realized timed hits as a mechanic is absolute garbage in fighting games. Notice how Smash's only moves with timed hits are Deep Breathing and Alolan Whip, one isn't an attack move and the other has you start the timing after landing the hit, when people suggest timed hits they never take lingering hitboxes into account or extended hitboxes, which again, the only timed hit attacks in Smash don't have to worry about at all due to how they're imolemented

Stages had icons in Brawl but not in Smash 4, Rhythm Heaven is the only unused series icon to be completely new instead of leftover data

Look man if you consider ARMS mechanicly deep I'm worried that you'll faint when seeing **** like Guilty Gear

Why do think those things would cause an issue, the moves properties simply change if you have the correct timing.

 

[Proceleon]

One of the main reasons for adding Mii costumes is so we can play as characters who weren't able to make the cut.

Now I don't know how they'd treat a costume like Geno's since his was made a long time ago, but a brand new Mii costume that was just recently added is probably a deconfirmation. I don't think they'd sell a Dante Mii costume when he's eventually going to be added as a character

Maybe, but I do think they don't equate the two, and they just treat costumes as, well, just the clothes of that character.

 

[StarBot]

People have different opinions. A product isn't meant for everyone.