Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[TheShiningAbsol]

Kinda the reason I don't understand Rex fans.

Xenoblade 2 is not a good Xenoblade game.

I mean, even if I'm a fan of a series, I ain't gonna request characters from bad entries in the series.

Like, I'm a fan of Final Fantasy, but I ain't out here requesting Firion...or Lightning.

“My opinion is right, everyone else is wrong”

 

[N3ON]

Idk about that..there's nothing proving those characters were actually planned and just because an obscure leak plants an idea doesn't mean that it ever had a chance.

Also what is it with these FANMADE rules as to witch characters can and can't get in? As far as I'm concerned there was never a rule saying that assist trophies deconfirm characters. If sakurai wants a character in just remove the AT...simple.
ATs are just characters not planned for the base roster. Dlc is an afterthought so why would they let things not planned for the base game limit literally every single first party character that even just has a jpg image...even if springman gets in that doesn't mean waluigi or Isaac etc..will have any greater of a chance than before.

I mean, besides getting WFT correct, which was undoubtably the hardest read until PP, and Villager, who was the first example of Sakurai changing his mind, the only elements the leak got "wrong" were accounted for in other statements, or in the data.

Not only that, but all the things that were "wrong", could be traced back to the same early period of development. Before Sakurai settled on Greninja, the spot was simply reserved for an "X/Y character", as per the leak. Before Sakurai switched to Robin, Chrom was intended, as per the leak. And at some point in development, as per the datamine afterwards, there was a Rhythm Heaven character planned.

Everything lines up to an earlier period in development. Literally every character in the leak was in the game, or intended for the game at one point, there are no loose ends. It was obviously real, just not reflective of the final product.

Also, how obscure can the leak be if we're still talking about it seven years later?

saying an obvious popular protagonist like chrom was CONSIDERED Does not prove that leak correct. And what was this "data" you speak of?

No offence, but idk why you're trying to speak empirically about this stuff when you're obviously less informed about it than the people you're discussing it with.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Why do think those things would cause an issue, the moves properties simply change if you have the correct timing.

Thing is, extended hitboxes make the character freeze in place for a second, how do you handle that? What if someone walks into your move during the sweetspot and you're buttonmashing considering hitconfirms are a thing in Smash. What if you tried playing the lagfest that is online, which the team uses for balance, ****ing up all your inputs? There's a ****ton of extra work needed for ot

 

[SNEKeater]

Kinda the reason I don't understand Rex fans.

Xenoblade 2 is not a good Xenoblade game.

I mean, even if I'm a fan of a series, I ain't gonna request characters from bad entries in the series.

Like, I'm a fan of Final Fantasy, but I ain't out here requesting Firion...or Lightning.

About Rex, I'm not a big fan of him, I don't hate him either, but if he has support and there's people wanting him for Smash... maybe it's because those people are actual fans of the character and they like Rex? And because they actually liked XC2?

Liking a game doesn't mean you can't see it's flaws. Maybe Xenoblade 2 isn't the best game of all time, but I really have a hard time trying to consider it a bad game. Because it's not. I like Xeno 1 more than 2 by a long way but at the same time I can easily see that XC2 does some things better, or at least, in a more interesting way, specially the combat which in my opinion is a lot more engaging than XC1, and also has a more cohesive soundtrack which btw has a good recurring leitmotif.
I'm more of a fan of Torna: The Golden Country than XC2, but if I had to choose I'd rather have Rex & Pyra than another XC1 character, and I don't consider myself as an active supporter of Rex for Smash.

 

[JamesDNaux]

OBJECTION!!!

I'm glad you were able to find enjoyment where I found none.

(though admittedly I haven't played the first game due to the Wii version being rare and the port not running on a regular 3Ds.)

Play the remake and prepare to have your mind blown.

 

[Will]

Glad to see we all have our priorities straight in saying XC1 > XC2.

Play the remake and prepare to have your mind blown.

Do I wanna 100% a 200-hour game for the fourth time?

 

[StarBot]

Kinda the reason I don't understand Rex fans.

Xenoblade 2 is not a good Xenoblade game.

I mean, even if I'm a fan of a series, I ain't gonna request characters from bad entries in the series.

Like, I'm a fan of Final Fantasy, but I ain't out here requesting Firion...or Lightning.

Both games are bad, don't know why people want more generic anime

 

[MagnesD3]

Thing is, extended hitboxes make the character freeze in place for a second, how do you handle that? What if someone walks into your move during the sweetspot and you're buttonmashing considering hitconfirms are a thing in Smash. What if you tried playing the lagfest that is online, which the team uses for balance, ****ing up all your inputs? There's a ****ton of extra work needed for ot

I mean certain characters in fighting games like king in tekken require a timed inputs at certain times and if you screw that up then you just miss part of the move so in that case of button mashing youve already screwed up the timing most likely because you’ve hit it too early. And yeah lag sucks for high execution characters, that’s how it is for fighting games, hello c viper and trying to do optimal peach combos online but that shouldnt bar a character design. Timing is a natural part of fighting games in general so that’s why a rhythm fighter just makes so much sense to me. And yeah it’s probably a bunch of extra work but that’s how it is for cool characters sometimes (looks at Hero).

 

[masterluigi1]

Like the literal datamines of the Wii U version, which is how we know for a fact that a Rhythm Heaven character was planned and that Brain Age was meant to get a stage.

This is ignoring the Sneaky Spirits in Smash Run.
This is ignoring how nobody would've just guessed Wii Fit Trainer.
This is ignoring how the Gematsu leak specifically called the Miis Mii Fighters instead of just Miis.
This is ignoring how it said Lucas was being cut and resold as DLC due to time constraints.
This is ignoring that Greninja was listed as Gen VI Pokémon, with Sakurai later confirming that Greninja was initially a placeholder.
This is ignoring how it got Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Mega Man, the Mii Fighters, Little Mac, Pac-Man, Palutena, and Shulk by name.
You say Chrom was a popular guess. You know who else was? Ridley. K. Rool. You know who wasn't on the leak? Ridley. K. Rool. You know who wasn't in Smash 4? Ridley. K. Rool.

The Gematsu leak was absolutely legit, but came from an early point in development, as noted by Chrom being listed and Greninja being a placeholder, both of which have been confirmed to have been the case early in development. To look at all of this, ALL of this, and say that the leak was fake is bafflingly dumb. It's plain as day that it was a legitimate leak.

THere were TWO parts to that leak. The first half was correct but it's pretty obvious after that e3 wrong information was given...which happens a lot with these leaks.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

If we have to get another first party in this pass, Rhythm Heaven would be one of the more ideal ones... but it kind of seems like that's a series Nintendo has also struggled to drum up much interest in. I'm not sure they would go with a big push for it at this point when it hasn't really performed particularly well and a new game doesn't really seem like its on the horizon either.

Honestly this make me sad, but I have to agree. Rhythm heaven did some pretty ok-ish sales on the DS, but then for some reason each game (Fever and Mégamix) did less sales than the previous one. Not only I doubt we'll ever see Rhythm heaven in Smash with a playable characters, but I doubt we'll see the franchise ever again. It just seems that Nintendo didn't really cared about those games and they will probably just let the franchise die.

 

[Schnee117]

Gematsu being considered "obscure" is sending me lmao
People wouldn't shut up about that before Robin and Lucina

 

[Will]

Honestly this make me sad, but I have to agree. Rhythm heaven did some pretty ok-ish sales on the DS, but then for some reason each game (Fever and Mégamix) did less sales than the previous one. Not only I doubt we'll ever see Rhythm heaven in Smash with a playable characters, but I doubt we'll see the franchise ever again. It just seems that Nintendo didn't really cared about those games and they will probably just let the franchise die.

Chibi-Robo feels your pain.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Thing is, extended hitboxes make the character freeze in place for a second, how do you handle that?

Not sure what you mean by that.

What if someone walks into your move during the sweetspot and you're buttonmashing considering hitconfirms are a thing in Smash.

Hitting the attack button too early should cause the weak hit to happen so button mashing wouldn't produce a sweet spot (at least, not a strong one).

What if you tried playing the lagfest that is online, which the team uses for balance, ****ing up all your inputs? There's a ****ton of extra work needed for ot

They wouldn't be the only characters who's tools are hampered by the online experience. It should still be doable in connections that are playable, and work perfectly fine offline. You could also try making the inputs more lenient depending on how bad the connection is, or just more lenient online period.

 

[Opossum]

THere were TWO parts to that leak. The first half was correct but it's pretty obvious after that e3 wrong information was given...which happens a lot with these leaks.

No, please read all of what I said. It was right, and if you think otherwise, debunk my previous post point by point.

 

[N3ON]

THere were TWO parts to that leak. The first half was correct but it's pretty obvious after that e3 wrong information was given...which happens a lot with these leaks.

It's pretty clear the info is only wrong when you choose to ignore a game is more than just its final state.

 

[Will]

Gematsu being considered "obscure" is sending me lmao
People wouldn't shut up about that before Robin and Lucina

They said Wii Fit Trainer, it must be true!

Back when Toon Link on the train was obviously a deconfirm.

 

[Rikarte]

Trust me, it takes a long ass time till you even get a mech...
then you gotta get a license to actually have it fly...
and when you do all that, it doesn't feel as satisfying as you'd hope. Stick to Daemon X Machina.

Starting you out with the mechs + ability to fly would have completely ruined the exploration aspect of the game. Asking the player to beat a significant portion of the game in order to unlock basically unlimited mobility just makes a lot more sense from a design standpoint.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Both games are bad, don't know why people want more generic anime

Xenoblade X got the shaft in terms of music and I want those songs in.

That's the only reason I want Elma.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not sure what you mean by that.


Hitting the attack button too early should cause the weak hit to happen so button mashing wouldn't produce a sweet spot (at least, not a strong one).


They wouldn't be the only characters who's tools are hampered by the online experience. It should still be doable in connections that are playable, and work perfectly fine offline. You could also try making the inputs more lenient depending on how bad the connection is, or just more lenient online period.

Try doing Bowser's Fsmash without hitting anything, then do it while hitting something, Bowser wil stop moving for a split second but the hitbox will still remain active, I find Kaclang to be a good example of showcasing this as you won't have the visual effects and everything get in the way


The problem is that the entire character's gameplan because unfeasible online, when I suffer lag, I either hold or mash the **** out of whatever I wanted to do so that the game realizes I'm trying to do the attack. Neutral heavy combo characters like Sheik will still suffer but they just need to throw the hitbox out, a timed hit character has so much more in their gameplan on the line, the balance team will have to either do nothing knowing it's the lag causing them to lose or keep buffing them which doesn't fix the issue of lag at all, considering this is the same balance team that thought making a very reactable move you can only use 5 times a stock somewhat invincible was a good enough tradeoff, I don't have the fullest confidence in them

 

[masterluigi1]

I mean, besides getting WFT correct, which was undoubtably the hardest read until PP, and Villager, who was the first example of Sakurai changing his mind, the only elements the leak got "wrong" were accounted for in other statements, or in the data.

Not only that, but all the things that were "wrong", could be traced back to the same early period of development. Before Sakurai settled on Greninja, the spot was simply reserved for an "X/Y character", as per the leak. Before Sakurai switched to Robin, Chrom was intended, as per the leak. And at some point in development, as per the datamine afterwards, there was a Rhythm Heaven character planned.

Everything lines up to an earlier period in development. Literally every character in the leak was in the game, or intended for the game at one point, there are no loose ends. It was obviously real, just not reflective of the final product.

Also, how obscure can the leak be if we're still talking about it seven years later?


No offence, but idk why you're trying to speak empirically about this stuff when you're obviously less informed about it than the people you're discussing it with.

Sorry but you're talking nonsense right now if you're saying chrom wasn't an obvious pick for someone being considered for smash 4.
I was around during smash 4 and brawl speculation.., one leak got everything right about characters the one later got wrong information.
A data mined icon proves nothing about whether the rythm heaven character was ACTUALLY planned. There were animal crossing icons in brawl.. yet a character was impossible.

In order for you to prove something you have to give concrete evidence not faulty leaks with your only evidence being a measly icon...

Gematsu being considered "obscure" is sending me lmao
People wouldn't shut up about that before Robin and Lucina

forums do not reflect the general public. I'm sorry but out of this bubble a leak that got things wrong is considered obscure

 

[Will]

I was around during smash 4 and brawl speculation..

I've never heard nor seen you and I did not care about this argument until I skimmed over that.

 

[Opossum]

Sorry but you're talking nonsense right now if you're saying chrom wasn't an obvious pick for someone being considered for smash 4.
I was around during smash 4 and brawl speculation.., one leak got everything right about characters the one later got wrong information.
A data mined icon proves nothing about whether the rythm heaven character was ACTUALLY planned. There were animal crossing icons in brawl.. yet a character was impossible.

In order for you to prove something you have to give concrete evidence not faulty leaks with your only evidence being a measly icon...

Animal Crossing had its Brawl icon stored in the stage section. The Rhythm Heaven icon was in THE CHARACTER section. Please read instead of spouting ignorance.

 

[masterluigi1]

View attachment 267724

I've never heard nor seen you and I did not care about this argument until I skimmed over that.

smashboards...the single and only forum that discusses smash bros... ever FYI this account is pretty old.

 

[N3ON]

Sorry but you're talking nonsense right now if you're saying chrom wasn't an obvious pick for someone being considered for smash 4.
I was around during smash 4 and brawl speculation.., one leak got everything right about characters the one later got wrong information.
A data mined icon proves nothing about whether the rythm heaven character was ACTUALLY planned. There were animal crossing icons in brawl.. yet a character was impossible.

In order for you to prove something you have to give concrete evidence not faulty leaks with your only evidence being a measly icon...

I mean if you want to just keep parroting "he was wrong, he was wrong!" without trying to actually rebuke the points, this is about as far as we can get.

Also, I'd give this a read: https://sourcegaming.info/2015/01/26/smash-4-wii-u-data-discoveries/
The RH icon was in the character section, not the stage section. It was for a character.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sorry but you're talking nonsense right now if you're saying chrom wasn't an obvious pick for someone being considered for smash 4.
I was around during smash 4 and brawl speculation.., one leak got everything right about characters the one later got wrong information.
A data mined icon proves nothing about whether the rythm heaven character was ACTUALLY planned. There were animal crossing icons in brawl.. yet a character was impossible.

In order for you to prove something you have to give concrete evidence not faulty leaks with your only evidence being a measly icon...

The data for the Rhythm Heaven icon was stored amongst the ones with playable characters. That's indicative of cut playable characters.

But hey you do you I've had enough with people not wanting to listen to facts in this day and age.

 

[Will]

smashboards...the single and only forum that discusses smash bros... ever FYI this account is pretty old.

hm, one one hand, you're a travis support brother

on the other, you said that 9 years ago

eh, not my business. you guys keep flailing arms at each other until a mod chains the thread for going in circles

 

[Schnee117]

thread for going in circles

That's how you know the thread is having a normal one

 

[masterluigi1]

The data for the Rhythm Heaven icon was stored amongst the ones with playable characters. That's indicative of cut playable characters.

But hey you do you I've had enough with people not wanting to listen to facts in this day and age.

I mean sure leaks are definitely considered facts...

 

[N3ON]

smashboards...the single and only forum that discusses smash bros... ever FYI this account is pretty old.

As someone who is using being around during Brawl speculation as a point of pride, it's kinda weird to see you claim Smashboards is the only Smash forum ever, when during the Brawl era there was another pretty notable one.

 

[Will]

As someone who is using being around during Brawl speculation as a point of pride, it's kinda weird to see you claim Smashboards is the only Smash forum ever, when during the Brawl era there was another pretty notable one.

n3on no he's gonna own you with the sarcasm button

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean sure leaks are definitely considered facts...

I love how GG just demolished your entire point with 2 simple sentences and you're biting back with absolutely nothing of substance

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Starting you out with the mechs + ability to fly would have completely ruined the exploration aspect of the game. Asking the player to beat a significant portion of the game in order to unlock basically unlimited mobility just makes a lot more sense from a design standpoint.

True, but they probably shouldn't have pushed the skells so hard if they weren't going to be such a big part of the game.

Xenoblade X got the shaft in terms of music and I want those songs in.

That's the only reason I want Elma.

If they do add her I hope they add Black Tar. I feel like they won't because it has lyrics like "There's a pain unexpected, hard to except it getting marked for death, see the tar inside, stealing the body and breath. 'Till only a shell is left. A fight to the death screaming 'where's the relief!' Maybe no more sleep...".

Try doing Bowser's Fsmash without hitting anything, then do it while hitting something, Bowser wil stop moving for a split second but the hitbox will still remain active, I find Kaclang to be a good example of showcasing this as you won't have the visual effects and everything get in the way


The problem is that the entire character's gameplan because unfeasible online, when I suffer lag, I either hold or mash the **** out of whatever I wanted to do so that the game realizes I'm trying to do the attack. Neutral heavy combo characters like Sheik will still suffer but they just need to throw the hitbox out, a timed hit character has so much more in their gameplan on the line, the balance team will have to either do nothing knowing it's the lag causing them to lose or keep buffing them which doesn't fix the issue of lag at all, considering this is the same balance team that thought making a very reactable move you can only use 5 times a stock somewhat invincible was a good enough tradeoff, I don't have the fullest confidence in them

Oh you mean hitstun? I don't think it'll affect the timing when comboing off of weak hits, and if it does I doubt they wouldn't take that into account. Also, not every attack needs to be affected by the gimmick, and I don't think the price for failure should be that the move doesn't work outright (except for very specific exceptions), or that it's not safe on hit (because that's stupid).

Just as an example of what I'm thinking, say this character's jab is based off of Samurai Slice. Pressing the A button has The Wandering Samurai do a sword slash. If the player presses the button again he'll do a second slash as a finisher. If the player does this with correct timing, then the finisher will be more powerful, and is perhaps even a decent KO move like Bowser Jr.'s jab. Neither variant of the finisher is punishable on hit, and the weak finisher may even allow for combo setups.

 

[Cosmic77]

Anyone remember this old thing?

 

[N3ON]

n3on no he's gonna own you with the sarcasm button

all my good work erased

tell my family i loved them

tell opossum that chrom is lame

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Xenoblade 2 is visually pleasing but god DAMN I can't stand another second of hearing Rex's ****ing voice or his big tiddy goth weapon harem.

As someone who has played Xenoblade 2, while I do agree that Rex's voice actor is particularly bad in Chapter 1, it gets way better later on except for that one scene in Chapter 7. I'm guessing all the scenes with the bad acting were recorded first, mainly for trailers. His voice actor after Chapter 4 is pretty good and gets better as it goes along.

 

[Will]

all my good work erased

tell my family i loved them

tell opossum that chrom is lame

Opossum chrom is a ****ing lameo, a total loser dad unlike the chad SIGURD

 

[DarthEnderX]

I dunno, this guy seems to think all leaks are BS. He sounds pretty sharp to me!

I've never heard nor seen you and I did not care about this argument until I skimmed over that.

Is the argument you're making here that he's wrong because he's not as big of a loser? Because that's kinda the argument that you're making.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

True, but they probably shouldn't have pushed the skells so hard if they weren't going to be such a big part of the game.


If they do add her I hope they add Black Tar. I feel like they won't because it has lyrics like "There's a pain unexpected, hard to except it getting marked for death, see the tar inside, stealing the body and breath. 'Till only a shell is left. A fight to the death screaming 'where's the relief!' Maybe no more sleep...".


Oh you mean hitstun? I don't think it'll affect the timing when comboing off of weak hits, and if it does I doubt they wouldn't take that into account. Also, not every attack needs to be affected by the gimmick, and I don't think the price for failure should be that the move doesn't work outright (except for very specific exceptions), or that it's not safe on hit (because that's stupid).

Just as an example of what I'm thinking, say this character's jab is based off of Samurai Slice. Pressing the A button has The Wandering Samurai do a sword slash. If the player presses the button again he'll do a second slash as a finisher. If the player does this with correct timing, then the finisher will be more powerful, and is perhaps even a decent KO move like Bowser Jr.'s jab. Neither variant of the finisher is punishable on hit, and the weak finisher may even allow for combo setups.

No, hitstun's when a character's unable to move after being hit, I'm talking about when the attacker freezes, not when the attacked goes into an animation.

That sounds more like cancelling an attack like how you can go from c5S to f5S in Guilty Gear due to the Gatling system, not a timing challenge

As someone who has played Xenoblade 2, while I do agree that Rex's voice actor is particularly bad in Chapter 1, it gets way better later on except for that one scene in Chapter 7. I'm guessing all the scenes with the bad acting were recorded first, mainly for trailers. His voice actor after Chapter 4 is pretty good and gets better as it goes along.

Nah Sky Bennette said that they were only allowed to do a single take and often got neither the context of what their line was in nor the direction to properly convey the line, like the voice acting in Sonic Adventure

 

[TheAJJohnson]

“My opinion is right, everyone else is wrong”

Isn't that the point of debating, to prove that your opinion is right or at least superior? While I disagree with his opinion strongly, I don't see a need to sarcastically cut him down. (In fact, this is an ad hominem attack.) Sure, he states his opinion unapologetically, but that's not a crime. Nowhere do I see him explicitly saying that his statement is irrefutable fact.

 

[Will]

Is the argument you're making here that he's wrong because he's not as big of a loser? Because that's kinda the argument that you're making.

are you okay in the head or are you just trying to find ways to insult him without doing it directly