Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[I.D.]

Byleth had his moveset mainly to people shut up about "anime swordfighter" meme

You know it's kinda silly to keep acting dismissive like this after Sakurai had an entire column written about the decisions behind Byleth.

 

[Will]

You know it's kinda silly to keep acting dismissive like this after Sakurai had an entire column written about the decisions behind Byleth.

Dismissive? Byleth was one of the most unique picks 3H could've gotten. rip claude maybe he'll be fighter 782

 

[HansShotFirst20]

You know it's kinda silly to keep acting dismissive like this after Sakurai had an entire column written about the decisions behind Byleth.

Byleth's moveset is actually really cool -- I stopped hyping for Moster Hunter after Byleth was revealed because Byleth was implemented almost the exact same way I was hoping Monster Hunter would have been.

Plus, that made room to hype for Dante.

 

[DarthEnderX]

C please, it's time for the Star Fox team to be completed.

...I'm not sure you've played a lot of StarFox.

 

[P.Kat]

...I'm not sure you've played a lot of StarFox.

I admit, I exaggerated a bit, considering Slippy, and Peppy's (and even ROB the Robot's) absence from the roster. Admittedly I've only played Adventures and Assault, but if Zero ever gets ported to the Switch I'll buy in a heartbeat.

Krystal (along with Lyn) is just one of a few characters I was looking forward to the most at the start of Ultimate. A bow staff wielder with elemental powers, and Sakurai could of put in the staff's unique force field for the shield button too like Yoshi.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Slippy should be an AT where he drives the Landmaster around. Kinda like how Chef Kawasaki became a way to keep Kirby's old FS in the game.

 

[Cosmic77]

Aside from Krystal, there really aren't any other Star Fox characters I want to see playable.

I'm sure Sakurai could do something with Slippy or Peppy if he tried, but they haven't been seen doing much more than Fox and Falco outside their Arwing. I mean, Slippy has the mechanic thing going for him, but that's about it. Like other Star Fox characters, most of the moveset would have to be orginal, and if that's the case, you might as well just choose a popular character instead.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm probably the minority if not only one who'd like Leon Powalski. He's toasis to

 

[cosmicB]

Is Japanese market factor really hurting western chance? If Bandai Namco can get western characters into their games (Soul Caliber and Tekken), I don't see too much issue with Smash team. Well, Smash has western characters content in Smash, but not as playable until Banjo. Ultimate sold 3.7 million iirc. That's way less than rest of regions. So, I don't see "hur not so popular in Japan, so out!" is really valid.

You can't really compare any two companies when it comes to foreign relations. Like, Sony is a Japanese company, but you wouldn't know it from how much control the California branch has. Nintendo isn't like that and their western branches have very little say on the development side of things outside of the actual western developers they own/partner with. People would always praise Reggie and now Doug Bowser, but both are largely figureheads to my knowledge. Sakurai has flat out said working with western developers is difficult and he's also said he wants Smash to be a means to show off Japanese properties to the world. That doesn't mean there will be zero western reps in pass 2, but it should give you some indication on what it'll look like. Right now, Banjo is literally the only non-Japanese owned fighter and even he's borderline due to his heights being during a period of questionable ownership and directly associated with Nintendo.

 

[Cosmic77]

You can't really compare any two companies when it comes to foreign relations. Like, Sony is a Japanese company, but you wouldn't know it from how much control the California branch has. Nintendo isn't like that and their western branches have very little say on the development side of things outside of the actual western developers they own/partner with. People would always praise Reggie and now Doug Bowser, but both are largely figureheads to my knowledge. Sakurai has flat out said working with western developers is difficult and he's also said he wants Smash to be a means to show off Japanese properties to the world. That doesn't mean there will be zero western reps in pass 2, but it should give you some indication on what it'll look like. Right now, Banjo is literally the only non-Japanese owned fighter and even he's borderline due to his heights being during a period of questionable ownership and directly associated with Nintendo.

To be fair, Smash is supposed to be a crossover of Nintendo franchises with guest characters. Any Nintendo character is automatically owned by a Japanese company, so that basically just leaves third-parties. To add on to that, there are only seven third-party companies involved (Konami, Sega, Capcom, Namco, SE, Microsoft, and SNK), and many of these third-parties' first characters added in Smash were someone who's generally accepted as a gaming icon (Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Cloud).

Obviously there is a bias toward Japan, but I don't understand why people are so confused by the lack of Western characters when Smash has always primarily featured Nintendo characters - characters from a Japanese company.

 

[Deleted member]

To be fair, Smash is supposed to be a crossover of Nintendo franchises with guest characters.
Any Nintendo character is automatically owned by a Japanese company, so that basically just leaves third-parties. To add on to that, there are only seven third-party companies involved (Konami, Sega, Capcom, Namco, SE, Microsoft, and SNK), and many of these third-parties' first characters added in Smash were someone who's generally accepted as a gaming icon (Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Cloud).

Obviously there is a bias toward Japan, but I don't understand why people are so confused by the lack of Western characters when Smash has always primarily featured Nintendo characters - characters from a Japanese company.

Ultimate sounds like the exception to the "Nintendo first" thing given we received 5 third party newcomers, four of which consist mostly of the first wave of DLC. It's safe to say times are changing and Sakurai really wants to push the crossover aspect as hard as possible. He even calls Ultimate as "a celebration of gaming" which doesn't sound like it's Nintendo only.

With Banjo breaking the barrier for western ip and Toby Fox and Ubisoft getting their content into the game, I think there might be one or two western IPs coming to Wave 2.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It's pretty clear that Sakurai does not consider the 3rd party characters as "guests". When Mega Man is just hanging out with the team in Ridley's reveal trailer, it's pretty obvious that Sakurai doesn't have any separation between the two groups.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's pretty clear that Sakurai does not consider the 3rd party characters as "guests". When Mega Man is just hanging out with the team in Ridley's reveal trailer, it's pretty obvious that Sakurai doesn't have any separation between the two groups.

Sakurai's also said console wars are dumb and that Smash celebrates video games as a whole too

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Actually, 3rd party was considered "guests" from the start. Same with how he described Assist Trophies. However, that's back when he treated it like a Nintendo crossover with guests. Now it's the Ultimate Character Gaming Crossover instead, so none of them are essentially "guests" in the way the game is designed. They're all a natural part of it now.

He simply changed his mind, and all. This is probably because 3rd parties are a massively big deal and have evolved the game. They feel natural compared to Brawl. 4 as well it felt a little odd. Everyone being back also helps, as they weren't ever treated "differently" at that point in Ultimate.

 

[UberMadman]

It's pretty clear that Sakurai does not consider the 3rd party characters as "guests". When Mega Man is just hanging out with the team in Ridley's reveal trailer, it's pretty obvious that Sakurai doesn't have any separation between the two groups.

For that matter, I find it funny how certain characters are licensed out. Cloud never has appeared in a CG cutscene once, but they shove Mega Man into every scenario they can get, including letting Ridley stab him through the damn chest! Capcom seems to be very eager to let Nintendo have full reign over him, which makes sense given the character’s history. Part of the reason I think a Capcom character in general is super likely for DLC Wave 2 is because of how easy they seem to be to work with for Nintendo combined with how many important properties they own. I worry a little bit about how a theoretical Geno trailer would work by comparison.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

For that matter, I find it funny how certain characters are licensed out. Cloud never has appeared in a CG cutscene once, but they shove Mega Man into every scenario they can get, including letting Ridley stab him through the damn chest! Capcom seems to be very eager to let Nintendo have full reign over him, which makes sense given the character’s history. Part of the reason I think a Capcom character in general is super likely for DLC Wave 2 is because of how easy they seem to be to work with for Nintendo combined with how many important properties they own. I worry a little bit about how a theoretical Geno trailer would work by comparison.

Capcom let a ****ing Family Guy flash game use Ryu, they're laughably easy to work with, so much so that when someone spread a rumour that Jill Valentine got scrapped due to Capcom not being happy, everyone laughed it off lmao.

 

[Will]

Capcom let a ****ing Family Guy flash game use Ryu

there's a family guy flash game?

 

[SvartWolf]

Remember when people were on the Kass for Smash train and then he wound up just being a random bard you'd sometimes encounter and only got somewhat expanded upon in DLC.

I still think that kass would be an amazing BOTW character :v

 

[Cutie Gwen]

there's a family guy flash game?

Yep

Ryu (Street Fighter) in American Dad vs. Family Guy Kung-Fu II pic.twitter.com/CNGlot50yl

— VGGuestCharacters (@GuestCharacters) August 31, 2019

Capcom said yes to this

 

[Will]

Yep

Ryu (Street Fighter) in American Dad vs. Family Guy Kung-Fu II pic.twitter.com/CNGlot50yl

— VGGuestCharacters (@GuestCharacters) August 31, 2019

Capcom said yes to this

that seems like such a weird crossover, that has to mean someone thought it was a good idea to *ask* capcom if they could use him

 

[Deleted member]

Yep

Ryu (Street Fighter) in American Dad vs. Family Guy Kung-Fu II pic.twitter.com/CNGlot50yl

— VGGuestCharacters (@GuestCharacters) August 31, 2019

Capcom said yes to this

"Ryu from Street Fighter!? I didn't know you work here!"

 

[Eldrake]

that seems like such a weird crossover, that has to mean someone thought it was a good idea to *ask* capcom if they could use him

I like to think that Capcom's reaction was just "What. You know what? Sure, why not, free advertisement is free advertisement."

 

[Garteam]

I still think Sakurai views Smash as largely a Nintendo crossover, with much of the "Gaming's Greatest Crossover" rhetoric more being marketing language. However, the idea of a Nintendo crossover in Smash has expanded from "characters owned by Nintendo" to "characters associated with Nintendo".

This can mostly been seen in the third party choices that get into Smash. A general gaming crossover wouldn't go out of its way to get Bayonetta or Banjo, and it wouldn't lack characters from games like Doom or Grand Theft Auto. Likewise, the inclusion of characters like Sonic, Mega Man, Simon Belmont, and Hero instead enhances the Nintendo element of the crossover rather than detracting from it.

There are obviously a few exceptions to this. Snake, Cloud, and Joker seem to be the most obvious examples of this, but all three still have some degree of Nintendo connection (Ghost Babel, Twin Snakes, the first six Final Fantasies being Nintendo exclusive, Persona Q2, etc.). Plus, Sakurai played around with the idea of a Final Fantasy character more associated with Nintendo before settling on Cloud, so it's clear there's some acknowledgement that these are more exceptions than a rule.

 

[I.D.]

Bamco is getting tired of not getting a new character and is starting to throw shade at Nintendo

As somebody who manages social media accounts for a living, my heart really goes out to the Bandai Namco Twitter person. They're totally getting fired tomorrow.

Of all the tweets to mix up the personal and work accounts too. pic.twitter.com/FltPF64o6p

— Garrett Kidney (@garrettkidney) March 23, 2020

 

[Deleted member]

Bamco is getting tired of not getting a new character and is starting to throw shade at Nintendo

As somebody who manages social media accounts for a living, my heart really goes out to the Bandai Namco Twitter person. They're totally getting fired tomorrow.

Of all the tweets to mix up the personal and work accounts too. pic.twitter.com/FltPF64o6p

— Garrett Kidney (@garrettkidney) March 23, 2020

That's not what shade is, calm yourself lol

 

[Deleted member]

Ya'll saw this???
https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakuraii/status/1242161429861539846

 

[Deleted member]

Ya'll saw this???
https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakuraii/status/1242161429861539846

Cue crab rave

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ya'll saw this???
https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakuraii/status/1242161429861539846

Damn bros, rip in spaghetti forevi, all because I sent him a tweet asking for Goku

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ya'll saw this???

Ha ha fake. You can see given the two i's at the end.

 

[P.Kat]

Ha ha fake. You can see given the two i's at the end.

You dare doubt Sakuraii's spelling of his own name? On his real account? Maybe you didn't know to spell his name all this time. That's it I'm reporting you to Sakuraii, it's Bubsy for DLC for you, all 6 slots.

 

[Will]

Ha ha fake. You can see given the two i's at the end.

How ****ing dare you accuse Sakurai of being a fraud, you soulless hack.

 

[Jomosensual]

Ya'll saw this???
https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakuraii/status/1242161429861539846

Yo this scared me before I saw the name

 

[DanganZilla5]

You dare doubt Sakuraii's spelling of his own name? On his real account? Maybe you didn't know to spell his name all this time. That's it I'm reporting you to Sakuraii, it's Bubsy for DLC for you, all 6 slots.

Bubsy for all 6 slots? That's not enough. Here is your new fighters pass 2.

1. Bubsy
2. Unsafe Wiimote Guy
3. Freddy Fazbear
4. Fortnite character
5. Shaq Fu
6. A literal NES console

 

[P.Kat]

Bubsy for all 6 slots? That's not enough. Here is your new fighters pass 2.

1. Bubsy
2. Unsafe Wiimote Guy
3. Freddy Fazbear
4. Fortnite character
5. Shaq Fu
6. A literal NES console

I could definitely see Sakurai making Unsafe Wiimote Guy an actual character, maybe even Labo Man

 

[Jomosensual]

Bamco is getting tired of not getting a new character and is starting to throw shade at Nintendo

As somebody who manages social media accounts for a living, my heart really goes out to the Bandai Namco Twitter person. They're totally getting fired tomorrow.

Of all the tweets to mix up the personal and work accounts too. pic.twitter.com/FltPF64o6p

— Garrett Kidney (@garrettkidney) March 23, 2020

Hey Garrett Kidney. That's a familiar face from other fandoms I run in on twitter

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Ya'll saw this???
https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakuraii/status/1242161429861539846

Ahhhh oh well. At least it's given us a good reason to panic. We should all be doing that a bit more often.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Everyone talking about needing Peppy and Slippy to complete the Star Fox roster in addition to Krystal and I'm here thinking about the true forgotten characters.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Everyone talking about needing Peppy and Slippy to complete the Star Fox roster in addition to Krystal and I'm here thinking about the true forgotten characters.

Might have to wait until Star Fox 2 gets a remake. That'll get people talking.

 

[Cosmic77]

Never understood why saying Smash is primarily a Nintendo crossover with a few third-parties is so controversial for the fanbase. Every time someone says something close to that, without fail, there's three more people ready to shoot back with, "Sakurai said..." and, "It's a celebration/tribute to gaming as a whole".

There's currently 68 Nintendo characters versus 14 third-parties. Yeah, it's true that Ultimate has done a pretty good job of adding third-parties so far, but even if every remaining character is third-party, Nintendo still outnumbers the third-parties by more than 3 to 1.

 

[Deleted member]

Never understood why saying Smash is primarily a Nintendo crossover with a few third-parties is so controversial for the fanbase. Every time someone says something close to that, without fail, there's three more people ready to shoot back with, "Sakurai said..." and, "It's a celebration/tribute to gaming as a whole".

There's currently 68 Nintendo characters versus 14 third-parties. Yeah, it's true that Ultimate has done a pretty good job of adding third-parties so far, but even if every remaining character is third-party, Nintendo still outnumbers the third-parties by more than 3 to 1.

Most of the time, people use it as a way to shoot down people wanting third parties