Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

Mainly because DLC spirits were released after the planning of the second pass, which means the developers didn't have plans for making these characters playable fighters. Base game is treated as free game because the timing of the planning of the second pass makes these characters viable options. The team could look back on one of their NPCs and decide to promote them as a fighter, it has happened in other fighting games.

Look at android 17 in Dragon Ball FighterZ. He was part of Android 18(?)’s moveset in base but became playable DLC later

and while not quite the same thing, She-Hulk’s classic mode closing scenes in vanilla Marvel vs. Capcom 3 had Phoenix Wright and Miles Edgeworth appear. Then Ultimate MVC3 came around and Phoenix Wright became playable

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well it's the whole reason why they've modified any realistic gun in the game, including Joker. They're always made to look silly, with "energy" bullets and weird behaviors like mini explosions, It's a real thing, even more prominent in Japan where gun violence is really shunned upon. Also a reason why those Yakuza picks are probably not happening (even more so if it promotes the most prominent type of organized crime in Japan). People in America might be in denial about this, but those are definitely things they consider and discuss during those "developer presentation meetings).

PLEASE bro not a single video game makes individuap bullet models that fire at your enemy when you press the buttom, are you saying Chris Redfield doesn't use real guns because MvC stylized bullet shots like Smash did?

 

[Wunderwaft]

Well it's the whole reason why they've modified any realistic gun in the game, including Joker. They're always made to look silly, with "energy" bullets and weird behaviors like mini explosions, It's a real thing, even more prominent in Japan where gun violence is really shunned upon. Also a reason why those Yakuza picks are probably not happening (even more so if it promotes the most prominent type of organized crime in Japan). People in America might be in denial about this, but those are definitely things they consider and discuss during those "developer presentation meetings).

Wait hold on, how the hell is Joker's gun exactly unrealistic and modified?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait hold on, how the hell is Joker's gun exactly unrealistic and modified?

Because the bullet is stylized instead of the dev team making a bullet model apparantly. I've had it with people saying Japan doesn't allow real guns, I watch too many Japanese kid shows to know that's a blatant lie

This children's franchise still shows real guns on camera

 

[wynn728]

I’m gonna get yelled at here because people don’t care about spirits until it’s about characters getting in

But I really REALLY don’t understand this ”Yeah, spirit DLC probably not happening, BUT BASE GAME THO!!” logic

It just screames ”I can’t let go of these 3 random characters“

That's because for base game Spirits they knew who was going to not be playable for the Fighters Pass Vol 1, so they can use all the unused characters as Spirits. Since they decided to make Vol 2 after a significant amount of time after finishing the base game they wouldn't limit their character pick just because they used them as PNG. But if they're adding Spirit characters like Resident Evil every late that means those characters aren't going to be playable in Vol 2 because they would've just hold those characters out until they released. Why put a Leon Spirits when he's going to be part of Vol 2?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Because the bullet is stylized instead of the dev team making a bullet model apparantly. I've had it with people saying Japan doesn't allow real guns, I watch too many Japanese kid shows to know that's a blatant lie
View attachment 266489
This children's franchise still shows real guns on camera

Oh, what are they doing to their CHILDREN!?!?

That was my "overly-worried adult" impression. I hope you enjoyed it.

 

[Deleted member]

I still don't see Master Chief. Very violent game with real guns and real bullets that create real blood and real deaths, too much of an XBox mascot, XBox is not a thing in Japan, and I still think he has a style issue with the game, much like Goku, and are not in the spirit of it. Doomguy has a much better chance, deconfirmed or not, due to the demonic and sci-fi aspects, and his lengthy history with Nintendo.

People will say "but what about Bayonetta and Snake?". Well having played those games very recently because of the isolation, Bayonetta is far from being realistic violent. There's never a single human injured, and the blood and kills we see are demons vs angels, meaning actually not as gross as Link diving his sword into Ganon's head. And Bayonetta has little to no sexual connotations (at least in the first game), despite undressing for some kills, there's never a sexual tone to it, more that her suit is made of hair and she needs it to summon the demons. Being halfway through the second game though, that one has more sexual references ( a few jokes here and there, usually not fight related), but I don't know if it was as much of a reference for Smash 4 at the time, since I don't know the timeline.

Human injury is seriously the line you're drawing?

Guess we're removing Street Fighter

Metal Gear Solid

Fire Emblem

Seriously, do I need to go on with this?

 

[Phoenixio]

Evidently that's not the case when Torture Attacks are based on real life torture devices, outdated ones, yes, but the only unrealistic thing about them is that Angels aren't humans. Also, Luke's Tragic Backstory had his father get torn limb from limb, not only a very real torture technique, but it, you know, killed him.

...Not to mention Bayonetta makes a regard about hating children but enjoying making them to Luke in the first game after he assumes Cereza's her kid

Your entire style argument falls apart if you mean that it has to mesh well together as Smash has had heavily conflicting art styles since 64, we've been over this already

Blood and gore can be easily removed as seen with Joker's final smash and the fact nobody bleeds ingame when you hit them with the pointy end of a sword, gore isn't integral to Halo's identity at all, when people think of Halo, they think of Master Chief, the scifi weaponry, the aliens, the story, Cortana's butt, etc, but not the gore.

But the whole point is that none of those, in Bayonetta's case, are because of guns. It's not Bayonetta's guns that killed the one human that dies (in a flashback), and there's none more afterwards. And even that death is not shown, just heavily implied (they actually cut the clip when he starts being in pain). And then the torture equipment... is probably not much worse than seeing Samus use explosives to blow up random aliens. They're terrible tools if you think of using them on humans, but they serve a "comical" effect when used on anything else, in fantasy / sci-fi settings.

And then that one sexual joke... does not have anything to do with any of the animation. It's a joke like there are many in every video games. The number of times that a character blushes, or that there are double-entendre... And not quite a proof, but it certainly wasn't enough to prevent Bayonetta for being in the game, since the spirit of the character is one with style, weird feet weapons, and flashy moves she uses against (mostly) angels.

And then yes, they could use the less orthodox weapons in Halo. They could ignore half of the time where it's violence against humans and focus on the aliens. That would easily fly, it's essentially the same as Samus. But is that really in the spirit of the character? We know this is something important for the Smash dev team, Sakurai included. If his most popular gun is the regular machine gun, right there it's an issue. Would they put that in? Because in my eyes, that's worse. Not that I can't personally stomach stuff like that, but I'm certain this will not pass as easily if they try to put that into a ESRB E(10+) game. Not in Japan at least.

 

[Megadoomer]

Well it's the whole reason why they've modified any realistic gun in the game, including Joker. They're always made to look silly, with "energy" bullets and weird behaviors like mini explosions, It's a real thing, even more prominent in Japan where gun violence is really shunned upon. Also a reason why those Yakuza picks are probably not happening (even more so if it promotes the most prominent type of organized crime in Japan). People in America might be in denial about this, but those are definitely things they consider and discuss during those "developer presentation meetings).

Joker's gun is indistinguishable from an actual pistol from a visual standpoint (it's not a real gun, just a realistic looking fake, but unless you've played Persona 5, there's no way of knowing that by looking at him).

Also, I seriously don't think you've played Yakuza based on that description. It's a beat-em-up game, and Kiryu is (from what I've played of Yakuza 0) not very good at the "crime" part of "organized crime" - he doesn't use guns (or at least doesn't like them), he doesn't murder, doesn't harm women or children, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

Because the bullet is stylized instead of the dev team making a bullet model apparantly. I've had it with people saying Japan doesn't allow real guns, I watch too many Japanese kid shows to know that's a blatant lie
View attachment 266489
This children's franchise still shows real guns on camera

Doesn't the Pokemon anime have a dude literally point a gun at Ash (who is a child)? It was only aired in Japan too, because wtf Japan?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm not sure what I was looking up, but I did come across some question forums of some sort where a person was asking if their child (I think somewhere around 5) would be fine if he played (or watched someone play) Halo. The response was pretty much unanimously probably not solely because the Flood is scary. If that's how most parents feel I don't think Master Chief will have issues in the age rating department.

Doesn't the actual Pokemon anime have a dude point a gun at Ash (who is a child)? It was only aired in Japan too, because wtf Japan?

Yeah. It's actually America that hates guns in children's media which is weird because we also seem to have the highest tolerance/affinity for violent media.

Another example would be the guns in one of the Sonic cartoons getting their sound effects replaced with laser gun sounds even though they're clearly not laser guns.

 

[osby]

And then yes, they could use the less orthodox weapons in Halo. They could ignore half of the time where it's violence against humans and focus on the aliens. That would easily fly, it's essentially the same as Samus. But is that really in the spirit of the character? We know this is something important for the Smash dev team, Sakurai included. If his most popular gun is the regular machine gun, right there it's an issue. Would they put that in? Because in my eyes, that's worse. Not that I can't personally stomach stuff like that, but I'm certain this will not pass as easily if they try to put that into a ESRB E(10+) game. Not in Japan at least.

"Spirit of the character" means absolutely anything you want, that's not a point against Master Chief. Also, really? Sakurai isn't going to turn down a big shot character just because he can't include a particular weapon.

At this point, this feels like arguing that Joker can't get in Smash because he can summon Succubus, Lucifer or Mara.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

But the whole point is that none of those, in Bayonetta's case, are because of guns. It's not Bayonetta's guns that killed the one human that dies (in a flashback), and there's none more afterwards. And even that death is not shown, just heavily implied (they actually cut the clip when he starts being in pain). And then the torture equipment... is probably not much worse than seeing Samus use explosives to blow up random aliens. They're terrible tools if you think of using them on humans, but they serve a "comical" effect when used on anything else, in fantasy / sci-fi settings.

And then that one sexual joke... does not have anything to do with any of the animation. It's a joke like there are many in every video games. The number of times that a character blushes, or that there are double-entendre... And not quite a proof, but it certainly wasn't enough to prevent Bayonetta for being in the game, since the spirit of the character is one with style, weird feet weapons, and flashy moves she uses against (mostly) angels.

And then yes, they could use the less orthodox weapons in Halo. They could ignore half of the time where it's violence against humans and focus on the aliens. That would easily fly, it's essentially the same as Samus. But is that really in the spirit of the character? We know this is something important for the Smash dev team, Sakurai included. If his most popular gun is the regular machine gun, right there it's an issue. Would they put that in? Because in my eyes, that's worse. Not that I can't personally stomach stuff like that, but I'm certain this will not pass as easily if they try to put that into a ESRB E(10+) game. Not in Japan at least.

Guns aren't an issue. Literal Japan exclusive children shows still have real guns.

So real life torture machines that are used for gore in games don't count because of something you just made up, ok.

That joke was merely one example. Bayonetta's very much meant to be sexually empowering for women, in the way that she walks, the way she talks, etc. It's all done with a purpose to sexually empower women instead of how women are usually treated in media as shy, innocent pure maidens

Idk man I only played Reach but I didn't fight a single person, just aliens all around, fans would have been upset if fighting humans was so integral to Halo like how people complained about Alien Colonial Marines had you mostly fight humans. This just tells me you know literally nothing about Halo and are insecure about having opinions so you make up excuses to make yourself feel more sophisticated

 

[Phoenixio]

PLEASE bro not a single video game makes individuap bullet models that fire at your enemy when you press the buttom, are you saying Chris Redfield doesn't use real guns because MvC stylized bullet shots like Smash did?

Wait hold on, how the hell is Joker's gun exactly unrealistic and modified?

Joker's gun is indistinguishable from an actual pistol from a visual standpoint (it's not a real gun, just a realistic looking fake, but unless you've played Persona 5, there's no way of knowing that by looking at him).

Also, I seriously don't think you've played Yakuza based on that description. It's a beat-em-up game, and Kiryu is (from what I've played of Yakuza 0) not very good at the "crime" part of "organized crime" - he doesn't use guns (or at least doesn't like them), he doesn't murder, doesn't harm women or children, etc.

It's not a real gun, and then there's this added explosion when the gun shoots and when the bullet lands. It's not about the bullet itself, it's how they did not depict a realistic injury (or reaction) while using a modern weapon. Of course they use guns in other games, that's not the point. It's all about the rating and the context. We can just wait and see if he ever makes it into the pass, and hopefully get a Sakurai explanation at some point. But for sure, culturally speaking, gun violence is not as well received, even if they do show/use guns in some shows.

For Yakuza, I think it's more about the political background than the violence itself. I know it's more of a comedic series, but the Yakuza affiliation, a real issue in Japan, that I'm not sure would fly in this type of rated games. Even more so a Nintendo one. Who knows, I could be proven wrong there.

Human injury is seriously the line you're drawing?

Guess we're removing Street Fighter
Metal Gear Solid
Fire Emblem
Seriously, do I need to go on with this?

Again, not human injury, but active act of injury using a shown realistic weapon (mostly guns). Which is not quite the case in any of those games. Do I need to point out how valued Martial Arts are in Japan? Or fantasy in general? Those don't quite apply. Ask if Madman can get in the game to use a chainsaw to bloody decapitate a character, then it might apply...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"Spirit of the character" means absolutely anything you want, that's not a point against Master Chief. Also, really? Sakurai isn't going to turn down a big shot character just because he can't include a particular weapon.

Case in point, whoever was rating the games in the Brawl days was actually more restrictive on realistic guns, so Snake had to have his moveset based around explosives instead.

At this point, this feels like arguing that Joker can't get in Smash because he can summon...Mara.

Wait, isn't that the penis monster? YOU CAN SUMMON THE PENIS MONSTER?!?

Idk man I only played Reach but I didn't fight a single person, just aliens all around, fans would have been upset if fighting humans was so integral to Halo like how people complained about Alien Colonial Marines had you mostly fight humans. This just tells me you know literally nothing about Halo and are insecure about having opinions so you make up excuses to make yourself feel more sophisticated

Besides, the humans in a hypothetical Halo stage wouldn't likely even be stage hazards. They'd probably be in the background fighting aliens.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ok you know what apparantly no fighting games have ever had REAL guns now, I'm drawing a line

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hell, they didn't censor guns in some Cartoons that weren't dubs. Static Shock(and in general DC universe at times) has real guns quite a bit. And these shows were always aimed at kids. Best part is the Static Shock example as a kid is shot and they go through the entire episode discussing it with people and the massive trauma it caused. The only thing was how terrible the acting was for the victim being shot, but otherwise, it played it very realistically. The show itself loves to do realistic points on racism as well.

So yeah, while guns can be censored, they still use real ones, but at best like to censor the sound effects(and once in a while the animation. G.I. Joe was notorious for that. Fixed in later cartoons, where it's actual laser guns proper, or real guns).

 

[snowgolem]

I want Saki Amamiya but I also want the AT can’t be promoted argument to be broken so badly, and if we got Saki it would be the same as Little Mac and Isabelle.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I want Saki Amamiya but I also want the AT can’t be promoted argument to be broken so badly, and if we got Saki it would be the same as Little Mac and Isabelle.

It's not the same because those both got promoted in a later game where the AT didn't exist.

But I agree that it'd be great if an AT got promoted via DLC. I mean, it does make sense that fans look at precedent to help predict stuff. That's the only concrete things they can work with. On the other hand, this is the second game with DLC characters. There's no real pattern to follow since we have yet to see anything set heavily in stone to begin with. We already had a smaller pattern broken in FP1 of "all 3rd party", which is a wake-up call that we really don't have an idea of the guidelines here.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ok you know what apparantly no fighting games have ever had REAL guns now, I'm drawing a line

You know, except Marvel Vs. Capcom 3: Fat of Two Worlds, Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3, Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite, Any Mortal Kombat game with the cowboy in it, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, the Injustice series, and probably lots of others that didn't come to me at this moment.

 

[Phoenixio]

t this point, this feels like arguing that Joker can't get in Smash because he can summon Succubus, Lucifer or Mara.

Actually that's missing my point. Summoning demons and whatnot is alright because of their fantasy related background. It's not real.

Guns aren't an issue. Literal Japan exclusive children shows still have real guns.
So real life torture machines that are used for gore in games don't count because of something you just made up, ok.

That joke was merely one example. Bayonetta's very much meant to be sexually empowering for women, in the way that she walks, the way she talks, etc. It's all done with a purpose to sexually empower women instead of how women are usually treated in media as shy, innocent pure maidens

What did I make up exactly? It's fantasy. What's the difference between a torture machine and explosives, to kill angels or aliens? See what you want there, I see two equally disturbing weapons if used in real life, but in the context of those games, they're used in fantasy or sci-fi settings to injure unreal creatures. That's it, and it's why this passes much more easily.

This just tells me you know literally nothing about Halo and are insecure about having opinions so you make up excuses to make yourself feel more sophisticated

See, we were having a half decent actual argument again. Why go back to flaming? There was nothing in any of my posts aimed at you specifically. Are you that uncomfortable with your own argument that you need to deride me all the time? You're free to disagree with my opinion. But the flaming? Really necessary?

 

[Deleted member]

Again, not human injury, but active act of injury using a shown realistic weapon (mostly guns). Which is not quite the case in any of those games. Do I need to point out how valued Martial Arts are in Japan? Or fantasy in general? Those don't quite apply. Ask if Madman can get in the game to use a chainsaw to bloody decapitate a character, then it might apply...

I mean, here's Snake literally killing people without guns if that's what matters to you.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know, except Marvel Vs. Capcom 3: Fat of Two Worlds, Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3, Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite, Any Mortal Kombat game with the cowboy in it, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, the Injustice series, and probably lots of others that didn't come to me at this moment.

Nonononono! MvC has stylized guns, stylized muzzle flashes and no actual bullets shown, so it doesn't count! And although the guns in MK aren't stylized, no actual bullets get shown outside of fatalties or Xrays/ Fatal Blows, so it doesn't count! Leon Kennedy doesn't have real guns too as they're made larger so the player has a better sense of scope, so Resident Evil haa no realistic guns!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You know, except Marvel Vs. Capcom 3: Fat of Two Worlds, Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3, Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite, Any Mortal Kombat game with the cowboy in it, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, the Injustice series, and probably lots of others that didn't come to me at this moment.

Mortal Kombat 3 had Stryker, a normal cop who was overpowered in the game due to his guns being better than all the mystical elements. And he's one of the few characters in the franchise who has no magical powers at all. He wasn't popular due to being a game breaker, mind you. It wasn't till 9 remade him a bit and gave him a more reasonable moveset but also fixed up his personality that he became a much cooler badass cop.

So to say the least, before the reboot, it's been done. I forget if the gun affected Motaro or not, though thanks to his Reflect innate ability.

 

[MagnesD3]

I want Saki Amamiya but I also want the AT can’t be promoted argument to be broken so badly, and if we got Saki it would be the same as Little Mac and Isabelle.

I really want Saki too cuz the original SnP is awesome but sadly I think it’s out of the cards.

 

[Phoenixio]

At this point you're all ignoring one important point of my argument: the RATING. Compare to all the games you want, but when you take M rated games like Resident Evil, Mortal Kombat or even Metal Gear Solid as examples of "out of context" quotes from me, it's pointless. In the end we're talking about an adaptation of a character for an E rated game. What can that adaptation take to Smash if half of it is realistic violence with guns and headshots?

 

[Deleted member]

What did I make up exactly? It's fantasy. What's the difference between a torture machine and explosives, to kill angels or aliens? See what you want there, I see two equally disturbing weapons if used in real life, but in the context of those games, they're used in fantasy or sci-fi settings to injure unreal creatures. That's it, and it's why this passes much more easily.

Where's the reality in Master Chief unloading his assault rifle into stupid aliens that squirt blue gushers when killed? Aliens are the primary enemies in Halo and this is what separates Halo from something as gritty and more down-to-earth as Call of Duty where you shoot up an airport full of innocent civilians.

 

[Phoenixio]

I mean, here's Snake literally killing people without guns if that's what matters to you.

You're not disproving anything here, he has those two moves in Smash. One is a "comical" explosion (which are "funny" and accepted to some extent since... Bugs Bunny?), and the other is a silent take-down with no actual killing. Unless it tells you that it kills ingame, but who are we to judge from that clip? And it certainly doesn't kill in Smash, which again, is the whole point.

Where's the reality in Master Chief unloading his assault rifle into stupid aliens that squirt blue gushers when killed? Aliens are the primary enemies in Halo and this is what separates Halo from something as gritty and more down-to-earth as Call of Duty where you shoot up an airport full of innocent civilians.

I actually agree. There is a line somewhere that they won't cross. I don't think a character from Call of Duty can make it for the same reasons, pushed farther. But genuine question: where does Master Chief stand? Because he does have violence against humans often, but it's also not always. Because the alien part would fly no problem, no question there.

 

[Megadoomer]

What did I make up exactly? It's fantasy. What's the difference between a torture machine and explosives, to kill angels or aliens? See what you want there, I see two equally disturbing weapons if used in real life, but in the context of those games, they're used in fantasy or sci-fi settings to injure unreal creatures. That's it, and it's why this passes much more easily.

Generally speaking, that's what you're doing in Halo. The enemies (at least in the campaigns) are consistently aliens, robots, zombies, or some combination of those three. You have to actively go out of your way to have Master Chief kill humans, and it's consistently treated like a bad thing. (at least, from what I recall - it's been a while since I've played any Halo game)

The point seems moot, since Bayonetta doesn't use those torture devices in Smash, and they could easily give Master Chief weapons that are used by the Covenant if they still need to avoid realistic-looking weapons, since he can use those in his games. (though since gun-wielding characters made it into games like Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and Playstation All-Stars, I'm not sure if that's as big of an issue as it once was)

 

[Goombaic]

I know the topic came and went, but here's some Xenoblade fighter packs anyway. Had to make some reaches when it came to the classic modes, but other than that, it was very easy to flesh out how much content all of them could bring.

Spoiler: Xenoblade's great, man.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Generally speaking, that's what you're doing in Halo. The enemies (at least in the campaigns) are consistently aliens, robots, zombies, or some combination of those three. You have to actively go out of your way to have Master Chief kill humans, and it's consistently treated like a bad thing. (at least, from what I recall - it's been a while since I've played any Halo game)

The point seems moot, since Bayonetta doesn't use those torture devices in Smash, and they could easily give Master Chief weapons that are used by the Covenant if they still need to avoid realistic-looking weapons, since he can use those in his games. (though since gun-wielding characters made it into games like Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and Playstation All-Stars, I'm not sure if that's as big of an issue as it once was)

In Reach, killing a human would kill the player, bringing you back to the last checkpoint as punishment

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Joker's gun is indistinguishable from an actual pistol from a visual standpoint (it's not a real gun, just a realistic looking fake, but unless you've played Persona 5, there's no way of knowing that by looking at him).

Also, I seriously don't think you've played Yakuza based on that description. It's a beat-em-up game, and Kiryu is (from what I've played of Yakuza 0) not very good at the "crime" part of "organized crime" - he doesn't use guns (or at least doesn't like them), he doesn't murder, doesn't harm women or children, etc.

In fact Kiryu's whole thing is that he's ex-Yakuza because he's a good boy at heart.

He might beat people up but it's almost always with either his fists or goofy weapons, and most of his time is spent being a socially awkward dork helping people with their problems

Also they were able to tone him down slightly when he appeared in project X zone. I'm sure Smash bros could do the same.

 

[Deleted member]

You're not disproving anything here, he has those two moves in Smash. One is a "comical" explosion (which are "funny" and accepted to some extent since... Bugs Bunny?), and the other is a silent take-down with no actual killing. Unless it tells you that it kills ingame, but who are we to judge from that clip? And it certainly doesn't kill in Smash, which again, is the whole point.

Then that's where you just lose your argument. In-game, Snake literally snaps peoples necks when he sneaks up behind them. The fact that they can translate this killer technique designed for humans into an t-rated party game and be fine is proof violence restricting series is bull****.

Same for weapons. Literally Joker's and Bayo's guns are used for murder first and foremost--demons, angels, or otherwise. Yet in Smash Bros, they just push you back and do chip damage. Literally how can a dumb assault rifle or pistol not be given the same treatment?

 

[osby]

At this point you're all ignoring one important point of my argument: the RATING. Compare to all the games you want, but when you take M rated games like Resident Evil, Mortal Kombat or even Metal Gear Solid as examples of "out of context" quotes from me, it's pointless. In the end we're talking about an adaptation of a character for an E rated game. What can that adaptation take to Smash if half of it is realistic violence with guns and headshots?

If Kirby doesn't explode into a bloody mess when Bayo beats her, I don't see what's so hard with making Master Chief do the same.

It's not like weapons themselves can be realistically violent, and we already have guns and ray blasters in Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I know the topic came and went, but here's some Xenoblade fighter packs anyway. Had to make some reaches when it came to the classic modes, but other than that, it was very easy to flesh out how much content all of them could bring.

Spoiler: Xenoblade's great, man.

>Sylvalum as Elma's Stage
I. HECKIN. LOVE. YOU. MAN.

I'd only suggest replacing the In The Forest Smash remix with the in-game X -> Z version, and don't remix the night theme for Sylvalum, but other than that, FIVE STARS. A PLUS. TEN OUTTA TEN. PERFECTION.

 

[Phoenixio]

(though since gun-wielding characters made it into games like Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and Playstation All-Stars, I'm not sure if that's as big of an issue as it once was)

Yeah to some extent those can be used as references, and might support the apparition of such characters in Smash. But there are two big differences: they're rated T instead of E, and they're not on Nintendo. The latter is probably the biggest factor, there's definitely an executive reason as to why Nintendo is more known as a kid-friendly console.

 

[osby]

Then that's where you just lose your argument. In-game, Snake literally snaps peoples necks when he sneaks up behind them. The fact that they can translate this killer technique designed for humans into an t-rated party game and be fine is proof violence restricting series is bull****.

Same for weapons. Literally Joker's and Bayo's guns are used for murder first and foremost--demons, angels, or otherwise. Yet in Smash Bros, they just push you back and do chip damage. Literally how can a dumb assault rifle or pistol not be given the same treatment?

I mean, Joker's gun being kinda useless aside from one specific thing in Smash is very accurate to the source material.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

At this point you're all ignoring one important point of my argument: the RATING. Compare to all the games you want, but when you take M rated games like Resident Evil, Mortal Kombat or even Metal Gear Solid as examples of "out of context" quotes from me, it's pointless. In the end we're talking about an adaptation of a character for an E rated game. What can that adaptation take to Smash if half of it is realistic violence with guns and headshots?

The argument that we're making is that characters that use guns all the time like Joker, Bayonetta, and Snake can be adapted into Super Smash Bros. without jacking up the age rating, and this is the case in other games as well. I can almost guarantee you that things like Deadpool's swearing, Felicia's character design, and Nemisis's gross level 3 super are the reasoning for UMvC3's T rating and not the realistic guns that a bunch of the characters have.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually agree. There is a line somewhere that they won't cross. I don't think a character from Call of Duty can make it for the same reasons, pushed farther. But genuine question: where does Master Chief stand? Because he does have violence against humans often, but it's also not always. Because the alien part would fly no problem, no question there.

What do you mean? Aliens are your primary foe. Unless you're talking PvP or something, Chief ain't out here to murder is fellow species.

Even if you do kill a human in Halo, you don't dismember their body and they're always inside their space suit. In practice, they just look like immobile action figures when they die. It's about as "cartoony" as Snake blowing himself up with a literal missile. It's just dumb sci-fi violence like Metroid Prime.

 

[Goombaic]

>Sylvalum as Elma's Stage
I. HECKIN. LOVE. YOU. MAN.

I'd only suggest replacing the In The Forest Smash remix with the in-game X -> Z version, and don't remix the night theme for Sylvalum, but other than that, FIVE STARS. A PLUS. TEN OUTTA TEN. PERFECTION.

The other options just weren't that great. Noctilum is the best alternative, but a jungle can't compete with whatever the **** Sylvalum is. Oblivia and Cauldros' aesthetics wouldn't be great for Smash stages, and Primordia would just be Gaur Plain. NLA's setting is already covered by New Donk City, Fourside, and plenty of other stages. Sylvalum is the best choice.