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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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NintenZ

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So talking about the leak again, one thing about the costume list that surprises me is no Cadence costume since Spike Chunsoft actually co-owns the Cript of the Necrodancer IP with Hello Games.

You’d think they’d want to include the damn character who teamed up with Link and Zelda as a Mii Costume but hypothetically I guess not, and a Borderlands costume is EXTREMELY questionable since Gearbox and Nintendo have basically no working relationship whatsoever, and I don’t think they’d want to associate themselves with a company run by Randy Pitchford.
 

chocolatejr9

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So talking about the leak again, one thing about the costume list that surprises me is no Cadence costume since Spike Chunsoft actually co-owns the Cript of the Necrodancer IP with Hello Games.

You’d think they’d want to include the damn character who teamed up with Link and Zelda as a Mii Costume but hypothetically I guess not, and a Borderlands costume is EXTREMELY questionable since Gearbox and Nintendo have basically no working relationship whatsoever, and I don’t think they’d want to associate themselves with a company run by Randy Pitchford.
I mean, people want Nintendo to work with Activision to get Crash in, so...
 

NintenZ

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I mean, people want Nintendo to work with Activision to get Crash in, so...
Activision isn’t run by an abuser.

Also Blizzard is mainly their problem and they both operate separately, you’ve probably already seen that Nintendo has started distancing themselves from Blizzard after the whole incident in September happened.
 

wynn728

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So... is this supposed to be seen as a bad thing?
Honestly, kind of lame that it's going to be another fire starter again. Having three fully evolve Fire Types, only one Water Type, and no Grass Type is just a bad balance; but Sakurai and Pokemon Company don't care about an over abundant of certain type of characters so I guess it's just going to be inevitable.
 

Goombaic

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For me, if it's gotta be a starter, Cinderace > Inteleon > Rillaboom. Toxtricity and Grimmsnarl are what I'd rather see, but Cinderace wouldn't be too bad, if only a bit underwhelming since the alternates would probably reference Britain's teams more than Mexico's. :\
 

Sari

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As someone who didn't bother with Gen VIII, I'd be alright with Cinderace getting in. It's probably the closest thing to having Blaziken in Smash plus I like its design.
 

DarthEnderX

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Not really, in KoF you can't switch freely, you only switch when your lead and mid get KO-ed
Actually, a couple of them do have free switching. Like KoF2003 and KoF11.

The fact the goalpost has to be moved to go from 'main protagonist' to 'any protagonist' is proof that it's a trash rule
Well, when the protagonist changes every game like it does in series like Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Castlevania, etc. there's no such thing as a "main protagonist".

I know it's already been almost several hours already, but the Geno thread has surpass 2500 pages and 100,000 posts just to let y'all know
*this is a cry for help*
 
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Knight Dude

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As someone who didn't bother with Gen VIII, I'd be alright with Cinderace getting in. It's probably the closest thing to having Blaziken in Smash plus I like its design.
If it ain't the actual GOAT that is Blaziken, I can't say I'd be that excited.
 

Will

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Are we still talking about that ****ty render leak? I'm not surprised people were falling for it, people were doing it over Agnes with the wrong accent on the e.

But if you really believe that then you're the personification of gullible.
 

ZelDan

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I'd like Cinderace more than Incineroar, I'll give it that much.

I can't say I really want another Pokemon rep or that there are any that interest me.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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guys what if sakurai just really likes fire

think about it

8 fire emblem characters and 2 (potentially 3) fire type pokemon

sakurai is arsonist?
 

Arcanir

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If you've played Dragalia Lost, you would understand that the main character, Euden, is a rather run of the mill swordie protagonist. Like Roy or Ike, he uses fire, and the unique thing about him is that he can turn into a variety of elemental dragons, which is mostly covered by Corrin. If they use his Gala form he gains some more diversity via having AoE moves, but otherwise he's unimpressive.
I don't think Corrin and Euden would have a lot of overlap. I know the dragon transformation gives them an immediate comparison, but the way the two games and characters use it is pretty different. What makes Corrin is that they use their Dragon Fang: a trait that allows them to shapeshift limbs into claws, spears, projectiles, and so on. That ability makes up the lion share of their moveset and is what gives the character their flare, being able to turn into a dragon is ironically the least used aspect of Corrin as offhand, they only have three moves that properly use it along with the Final Smash. By comparison, Euden would have to full shapeshift to make full use of his dragon as that's how the mechanics of DL works, so that aspect is immediately lost as there would ideally be more emphasis on the dragon.

It's especially is the case when it comes to their dragon form. The one that would be most similar to Corrin's isn't the most marketed or popular so she likely wouldn't have much (if any) influence, while the one they would most likely use is nothing like Corrin's dragon form. They don't share elementals, body types, abilities, or otherwise so they would be very distinct from each other. If anything their dragon forms would be the biggest differential, not what makes them too similar thinking about it, just make him playable.

I do agree his base form is the biggest flaw to him since if they use that there's more of an apparent overlap with Roy. Gala would have to be his saving grace there, and admittedly I'm not sure they'd go for it.

Agreed with the rest of your post as I feel Granblue is pretty overlooked, I just had a few two cents since I like comparing ideas on movesets.

Honestly, kind of lame that it's going to be another fire starter again. Having three fully evolve Fire Types, only one Water Type, and no Grass Type is just a bad balance; but Sakurai and Pokemon Company don't care about an over abundant of certain type of characters so I guess it's just going to be inevitable.
While they would share typings they wouldn't play the same. Charizard and Incineroar are based around being a generic dragon and heel wrestler, they serve different roles in the game and outside of a couple traits they feel very different from each other. Cinderace would likely be the same, it's based around being a soccer player and inherently that's going to be distinct from the other two since it wouldn't be a heavy dragon or grappler, it'd be based around a speedy fighter who uses a sports motif for its moves. It would still likely be a fun character archetype to visit since we don't have many characters that make use of that aspect, and the Fire typing would most likely be supplementary since it's not the focus of its motif.
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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I don't think Corrin and Euden would have a lot of overlap. I know the dragon transformation gives them an immediate comparison, but the way the two games and characters use it is pretty different. What makes Corrin is that they use their Dragon Fang: a trait that allows them to shapeshift limbs into claws, spears, projectiles, and so on. That ability makes up the lion share of their moveset and is what gives the character their flare, being able to turn into a dragon is ironically the least used aspect of Corrin as offhand, they only have three moves that properly use it along with the Final Smash. By comparison, Euden would have to full shapeshift to make full use of his dragon as that's how the mechanics of DL works, so that aspect is immediately lost as there would ideally be more emphasis on the dragon.

It's especially is the case when it comes to their dragon form. The one that would be most similar to Corrin's isn't the most marketed or popular so she likely wouldn't have much (if any) influence, while the one they would most likely use is nothing like Corrin's dragon form. They don't share elementals, body types, abilities, or otherwise so they would be very distinct from each other. If anything their dragon forms would be the biggest differential, not what makes them too similar thinking about it, just make him playable.

I do agree his base form is the biggest flaw to him since if they use that there's more of an apparent overlap with Roy. Gala would have to be his saving grace there, and admittedly I'm not sure they'd go for it.

Agreed with the rest of your post as I feel Granblue is pretty overlooked, I just had a few two cents since I like comparing ideas on movesets.



While they would share typings they wouldn't play the same. Charizard and Incineroar are based around being a generic dragon and heel wrestler, they serve different roles in the game and outside of a couple traits they feel very different from each other. Cinderace would likely be the same, it's based around being a soccer player and inherently that's going to be distinct from the other two since it wouldn't be a heavy dragon or grappler, it'd be based around a speedy fighter who uses a sports motif for its moves. It would still likely be a fun character archetype to visit since we don't have many characters that make use of that aspect, and the Fire typing would most likely be supplementary since it's not the focus of its motif.
Regardless, the way that shapeshifting is presented in Dragalia is that of a super meter, so I find it hard to see how that could be implemented without being a final Smash. I suppose Euden could use the capabilities of his friends? But even then, that makes him similar to Byleth in that he has multiple weapon types.

I feel like Euden would just be awkward to implement, especially compared to Granblue which has a lot in terms of moveset potential.
 

Will

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Well, when the protagonist changes every game like it does in series like Pokemon, Final Fantasy, Castlevania, etc. there's no such thing as a "main protagonist".
Fire Emblem was one of the easiest games to throw in this category and you just disregard it. :nifty: Unless you're not counting reoccurring roles, in which Simon and Richter both do (C1/C2) (RoB/SotN) .
 
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Arcanir

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Regardless, the way that shapeshifting is presented in Dragalia is that of a super meter, so I find it hard to see how that could be implemented without being a final Smash. I suppose Euden could use the capabilities of his friends? But even then, that makes him similar to Byleth in that he has multiple weapon types.

I feel like Euden would just be awkward to implement, especially compared to Granblue which has a lot in terms of moveset potential.
Thematically it would be justified since with DL a major draw of it is the dragons and the ability to transform into them. When the game was first unveiled for instance, the biggest and final moment they put focus on was Euden transforming into a dragon, and the dragons (at least in marketing) are given a lot of focus as well. So putting more emphasis on the dragon and making it a more proper transformation would be something I could see them do, especially if the desire is to differentiate the character further similar to how Byleth became a weapons master.

That said, awkwardness to implement is something I've debated as well. Byleth happened because (along with the timing being right for them) the options they had that could be expanded on were feasible to work with. With Euden there are options to make him unique, but they are more complex relative to other characters, and whether they would be willing to go for those options is another matter as they could be too demanding of the team or they may just not want to pursue those options.
 
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PLATINUM7

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Regardless, the way that shapeshifting is presented in Dragalia is that of a super meter, so I find it hard to see how that could be implemented without being a final Smash. I suppose Euden could use the capabilities of his friends? But even then, that makes him similar to Byleth in that he has multiple weapon types.

I feel like Euden would just be awkward to implement, especially compared to Granblue which has a lot in terms of moveset potential.
Just take some creative liberties to get around meters from the source game. Cloud had his limits turned into normal specials with only his strongest one being his final smash.
 

pinshadow

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Look, when you actually look at who get's in Smash first, its more or less always the main playable face of the franchise. Even for franchises with a revolving cast, it's generally the most iconic/first-playable character in the franchise. Marth got in first, Cloud was chosen over the other Final Fantasy reps, Terry was put in over everyone else in Fatal Fury/KOF, he specifically went after Hero instead of something like Slime, you get the idea. Putting in Alucard over Simon is like the equivalent of putting in Zero or X instead of Mega Man, yea they're all playable and iconic within their own right, but Classic is still the first and most iconic.

I'm more confused how this argument even started and what characters it even applies to, can't really think of a highly requested character from a franchise not in Smash that people want who isn't undeniably the main face of their franchise.
 
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Koopaul

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Look, when you actually look at who get's in Smash first, its more or less always the main playable face of the franchise. Even for franchises with a revolving cast, it's generally the most iconic/first-playable character in the franchise. Marth got in first, Cloud was chosen over the other Final Fantasy reps, Terry was put in over everyone else in Fatal Fury/KOF, he specifically went after Hero instead of something like Slime, you get the idea. Putting in Alucard over Simon is like the equivalent of putting in Zero or X instead of Mega Man, yea they're all playable and iconic within their own right, but Classic is still the first and most iconic.

I'm more confused how this argument even started and what characters it even applies to, can't really think of a highly requested character from a franchise not in Smash that people want who isn't undeniably the main face of their franchise.
The face of the franchise and the protagonist are two different things. Pikachu is the face of the Pokemon series but not the protagonist. Also your argument about a series with a revolving cast using the most iconic/first protagonist doesn't work because the most recent Dragon Quest Hero was prioritized over the others.
 
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Idon

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Putting in Alucard over Simon is like the equivalent of putting in Zero or X instead of Mega Man, yea they're all playable and iconic within their own right, but Classic is still the first and most iconic.
You're talking mad **** for someone in touch of death combo range.

 
D

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Well, what's up with the discussion right now?

I'm clearly not interested in butting heads right now, and I just posted out of curiosity.
 

Knight Dude

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Look, when you actually look at who get's in Smash first, its more or less always the main playable face of the franchise. Even for franchises with a revolving cast, it's generally the most iconic/first-playable character in the franchise. Marth got in first, Cloud was chosen over the other Final Fantasy reps, Terry was put in over everyone else in Fatal Fury/KOF, he specifically went after Hero instead of something like Slime, you get the idea. Putting in Alucard over Simon is like the equivalent of putting in Zero or X instead of Mega Man, yea they're all playable and iconic within their own right, but Classic is still the first and most iconic.

I'm more confused how this argument even started and what characters it even applies to, can't really think of a highly requested character from a franchise not in Smash that people want who isn't undeniably the main face of their franchise.
The idea that the face isn't always the main character as well. Like Scorpion not being the lead character of MK, but is more well known and popular than Liu Kang. Pikachu being in before Red, but obviously Pikachu's one of the biggest mascots of in the industry.

And then there's examples of the MVC and other VS titles uses Mega Man X, Mega Man Volnutt and Zero, so Mega Man might not be the best example to use. Although Mega Man was in MVC1 and 2.
 
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Idon

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Also your argument about a series with a revolving cast using the most iconic/first protagonist doesn't work because the most recent Dragon Quest Hero was prioritized over the others.
Except Dragon Quest 3 Hero is also featured?
The most iconic JRPG protagonist (at least to Japan) not named Cloud?
Not like we got Jade or Jessica or Bianca or Terry (no not the SNK one) or Alena or other popular characters, we got the most iconic Hero, the most popular Hero in the West, the most recent and relevant Hero, and the fish guy because the other popular guy wields a walking stick.
 

pinshadow

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The face of the franchise and the protagonist are two different things. Pikachu is the face of the Pokemon series but not the protagonist. Also your argument about a series with a revolving cast using the most iconic/first protagonist doesn't work because the most recent Dragon Quest Hero was prioritized over the others.
That's true, but when you actually look at what Sakurai said about the other Heros, you see that he chose Erdrick, the main character from the most popular game in the franchise, Eight, the most popular game oversees, and the guy from Four because he's here to represent the 4-6 trilogy and they would have picked 5 as he's more popular but (because he's from the best game) is the only one of them who doesn't use a sword. (I mean he does, he only uses one staff at the end of the game but literally every piece of promotional art has the staff and its in the final smash too so whatever)
 

Koopaul

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Except Dragon Quest 3 Hero is also featured?
Also featured. But not prioritized. The Dragon Quest 11 protag is the face they used to represent the Dragon Quest series. DQ3 Hero is his alt.
be3.png
 
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PLATINUM7

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The idea that the face isn't always the main character as well. Like Scorpion not being the lead character of MK, but is more well known and popular than Liu Kang. Pikachu being in before Red, but obviously Pikachu's one of the biggest mascots of in the industry.

And then there's examples of the MVC and other VS titles uses Mega Man X, Mega Man Volnutt and Zero, so Mega Man might not be the best example to use. Although Mega Man was in MVC1 and 2.
Doesn't Capcom include different Mega Men to avoid putting the classic one in all the time?

At least, that was the reason for Bad Box Art Mega Man in Street Fighter x Tekken.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Doesn't Capcom include different Mega Men to avoid putting the classic one in all the time?

At least, that was the reason for Bad Box Art Mega Man in Street Fighter x Tekken.
Though in the case of 3, MegaMan was cut for being a shotoclone and they didn't want to update him "too much". It was more or less a function-related thing.

The irony is they still added Akuma, who was yet another shotoclone, and added Tron Bonne due to fan demand. At that point, keeping MegaMan cut was pointless. Especially when he was more than just a shotoclone(soccer moves, for instance).

Though at least we finally got X in a crossover fighting game. But no, Capcom really doesn't go out of their way to avoid Classic MegaMan. Street Fighter x Tekken getting BBAM was actually meant as a fun joke, which ultimately became poor taste in hindsight due to the franchise not having some games for a while(though it was active via a comic, at least), as well as MegaMan Legends 3 being cancelled. More of a timing issue, of course(though that's what I mean by hindsight). BBAM is a guest, not a regular crossover participant in that particular game. Same thing with Pac-Man. Usually a version of MegaMan or someone who is sometimes labeled a "Mega Man"(Zero sometimes gets this label) is in a Marvel VS Capcom game. We did get Volnutt is Tatsunooko VS Capcom, though(which unfortunately the US version couldn't license some characters, so it wasn't as great as it could be).
 

pinshadow

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Also featured. But not prioritized. The Dragon Quest 11 protag is the face they used to represent the Dragon Quest series. DQ3 Hero is his alt.View attachment 264448
I feel like that has to do with Square's weird meddling than anything else though, his page is still the only one that directly links to his game. Not to mention that, even though Eight and Four were chosen to be added later, Erdrick was always planned, who is, again, the most well known Hero in the franchise
 

PLATINUM7

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Though in the case of 3, MegaMan was cut for being a shotoclone and they didn't want to update him "too much". It was more or less a function-related thing.

The irony is they still added Akuma, who was yet another shotoclone, and added Tron Bonne due to fan demand. At that point, keeping MegaMan cut was pointless. Especially when he was more than just a shotoclone(soccer moves, for instance).

Though at least we finally got X in a crossover fighting game. But no, Capcom really doesn't go out of their way to avoid Classic MegaMan. Street Fighter x Tekken getting BBAM was actually meant as a fun joke, which ultimately became poor taste in hindsight due to the franchise not having some games for a while(though it was active via a comic, at least), as well as MegaMan Legends 3 being cancelled. More of a timing issue, of course(though that's what I mean by hindsight). BBAM is a guest, not a regular crossover participant in that particular game. Same thing with Pac-Man. Usually a version of MegaMan or someone who is sometimes labeled a "Mega Man"(Zero sometimes gets this label) is in a Marvel VS Capcom game. We did get Volnutt is Tatsunooko VS Capcom, though(which unfortunately the US version couldn't license some characters, so it wasn't as great as it could be).
According to this interview, Inafune said no to Mega Man being in SFxT because it had already been done, which is what led to BBA Mega Man to make it more interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmPTKAr0S64

It just looks like Capcom likes going for different Mega Men where possible, at least to me, for a few reasons. Partly that comment, partly when we got another classic series fighter, they were put alongside a Mega Man from a different series, as we got classic Roll alongside Mega Man Volnutt. Lastly, I think we've had every Mega Man aside from Geo Stelar be playable in a fighting game.
 

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According to this interview, Inafune said no to Mega Man being in SFxT because it had already been done, which is what led to BBA Mega Man to make it more interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmPTKAr0S64

It just looks like Capcom likes going for different Mega Men where possible, at least to me, for a few reasons. Partly that comment, partly when we got another classic series fighter, they were put alongside a Mega Man from a different series, as we got classic Roll alongside Mega Man Volnutt. Lastly, I think we've had every Mega Man aside from Geo Stelar be playable in a fighting game.
Again, Street Fighter x Tekken isn't a MvC game either. It's an unrelated crossover. It's not really a continuation of the series either. There in fact was gonna be a Tekken x Street Fighter too. So as I said, it's not that great of an example. The problem is there's not really enough games as is to push the idea they keep trying for different variations. MegaMan Classic is used the most as is right now. 2 Smash games, 2 MvC games. The rest are one-shots(and yes, BBAM was also partially done as a fun joke, not just for interesting alone. Inafune didn't realize till later that with Capcom's handling of the MegaMan games how bad it came off as). Keep in mind it's not that people hate BBAM in itself, it's just timing that was the issue. It was actually a pretty neat addition as is, just didn't work as planned overall.

I mean, yeah, as more crossover games come out, they might push different Mega Man variations. But there's not enough games to really see a clear goal in mind. That's probably a better way to put it. If the next MVC game uses yet another one, then perhaps it's a bit more clear. Say, Mega Man Zero or Starforce MegaMan, who have yet to see use in a crossover.

X took forever to even get into a crossover as is, as I noted before. And Tatsunooko VS Capcom is not a MVC game either. It's its own thing. MVC gravitated towards MegaMan as is, and didn't really change it up till the 4th game in the series. MegaMan's cut, as I noted, was particularly dumb in its reasoning. While I hate the X-Men cut, that made sense for other behind the scenes reasons than simply "functions" as is. They actually were trying to push an all new set of characters, which to be honest, has a lot more logic to it in that case. Especially with how many cuts were made to push the Inhumans as their current important characters. It's hard to actually get focus on them with the X-Men there(I don't agree with Wolverine not returning, especially as DLC if base wasn't plausible, mind you) in general. Nostalgia overtakes other new stuff sometimes too easily.
 

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Again, Street Fighter x Tekken isn't a MvC game either. .
You realise I was talking about Capcom fighting games as whole, not just MvC? This, for instance, extends to Onimusha Blade Warriors which has Mega Man.Exe and Zero. Even Knight Dude who brought up Mega Man in fighting games didn't just limit it to MvC.
 

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Again, Street Fighter x Tekken isn't a MvC game either. It's an unrelated crossover. It's not really a continuation of the series either. There in fact was gonna be a Tekken x Street Fighter too. So as I said, it's not that great of an example. The problem is there's not really enough games as is to push the idea they keep trying for different variations. MegaMan Classic is used the most as is right now. 2 Smash games, 2 MvC games. The rest are one-shots(and yes, BBAM was also partially done as a fun joke, not just for interesting alone. Inafune didn't realize till later that with Capcom's handling of the MegaMan games how bad it came off as). Keep in mind it's not that people hate BBAM in itself, it's just timing that was the issue. It was actually a pretty neat addition as is, just didn't work as planned overall.

I mean, yeah, as more crossover games come out, they might push different Mega Man variations. But there's not enough games to really see a clear goal in mind. That's probably a better way to put it. If the next MVC game uses yet another one, then perhaps it's a bit more clear. Say, Mega Man Zero or Starforce MegaMan, who have yet to see use in a crossover.

X took forever to even get into a crossover as is, as I noted before. And Tatsunooko VS Capcom is not a MVC game either. It's its own thing. MVC gravitated towards MegaMan as is, and didn't really change it up till the 4th game in the series. MegaMan's cut, as I noted, was particularly dumb in its reasoning. While I hate the X-Men cut, that made sense for other behind the scenes reasons than simply "functions" as is. They actually were trying to push an all new set of characters, which to be honest, has a lot more logic to it in that case. Especially with how many cuts were made to push the Inhumans as their current important characters. It's hard to actually get focus on them with the X-Men there(I don't agree with Wolverine not returning, especially as DLC if base wasn't plausible, mind you) in general. Nostalgia overtakes other new stuff sometimes too easily.
GBA Zero was in SVC Chaos and both he and MM.EXE are on Onimusha Blade Warriors. Outside of MVC, there's a ton of stuff that used other Mega Men.

Geo has yet to be in a fighting game, nor any of the ZX kids.
 

DarthEnderX

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Fire Emblem was one of the easiest games to throw in this category and you just disregard it.
The point of putting "etc." at the end is so I don't have to list every single example...

we got the most iconic Hero, the most popular Hero in the West, the most recent and relevant Hero, and the fish guy because the other popular guy wields a walking stick.
Fish guy? You mean Four? Because of the fins on his helmet?

Pretty sure those are supposed to be dragon fins, like most dragons in the series have.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Honestly, kind of lame that it's going to be another fire starter again. Having three fully evolve Fire Types, only one Water Type, and no Grass Type is just a bad balance; but Sakurai and Pokemon Company don't care about an over abundant of certain type of characters so I guess it's just going to be inevitable.
Mate, that's not the imbalance Cinderace would create if it joined. It's going to be the third fully evolved starter added just to have a Pokemon from the latest gen in a row, without considering what's popular.

Homestly you'd think someone whose shtick is complaining about spirits and ATs would also complain that fan favorite Pokemon also are getting Poke Ball cucked, not Sakurai not filling out the grass quota.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Breath of Fire confirmed
How joyous, a Capcom character!
Except Dragon Quest 3 Hero is also featured?
The most iconic JRPG protagonist (at least to Japan) not named Cloud?
Not like we got Jade or Jessica or Bianca or Terry (no not the SNK one) or Alena or other popular characters, we got the most iconic Hero, the most popular Hero in the West, the most recent and relevant Hero, and the fish guy because the other popular guy wields a walking stick.
I mean, technically DQ Terry's in the game judging by alt colours...
 
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