Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rikarte]

Why? Monster Hunter is literally represented in the game already and the other Capcom costumes got brought back, why not the 2 Monster Hunter costumes?

I don't get Geno either since he also has a spirit in the game so there's no reason his costume wouldn't be back, but atleast with him you can make the "Square is weird and so is Geno so his costume being gone doesn't mean anything" argument, no matter how much I disagree with it.

None of the third party costumes have returned in base game, even the ones that had spirits like Megaman X or Zero. It's probably just that they wanna resell the outfits and need to spread out the releases.
I can also totally see Geno being upgraded to a premium Mii outfit considering that Nintendo has taken down two Super Mario RPG tracks from Youtube a couple of months ago, similar to what happened with Sans.

 

[pinshadow]

None of the third party costumes have returned in base game, even the ones that had spirits like Megaman X or Zero. It's probably just that they wanna resell the outfits and need to spread out the releases.

I know that, he's saying there's a decent chance neither will come back at all, and that's what's confusing me.

 

[Rikarte]

I know that, he's saying there's a decent chance neither will come back at all, and that's what's confusing me.

Oh, guess I misunderstood that. My bad.

 

[Deleted member]

None of the third party costumes have returned in base game, even the ones that had spirits like Megaman X or Zero. It's probably just that they wanna resell the outfits and need to spread out the releases.
I can also totally see Geno being upgraded to a premium Mii outfit considering that Nintendo has taken down two Super Mario RPG tracks from Youtube a couple of months ago, similar to what happened with Sans.

I honestly don’t think this will happen imo. The " premium " mii outfits so far have only been of indie game characters,
and needless to say, Geno and SMRPG aren’t indie.

 

[Deleted member]

Same.

I just couldn't imagine going back to play a Smash game that doesn't have 70+ characters available.

8 player Smash is also pretty vital for parties now. Smash 4 only having a select few 8 player stages was awful.

 

[wynn728]

What if Geno doesn’t end up playable, though?

At this point that seems more likely.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Honestly, the thing that makes me think Brawl was better than 4 in terms of roster is the first party picks. To me, Brawl had a nice mix of fan favorites and surprises, old and new characters, intruduced 4 new first party franchises to the roster and was the first to include third parties.

In comparison, 4 introduced 6 new first party franchises, only 2 more than Brawl, and most of the selection was restricted to characters that were considered "relevant" in current or past gen. As far as I'm concerned, the third party content pretty much helped carry 4.

So basically... imo, Brawl had a slightly better selection than 4, in their respective times of release.

 

[DanaDee]

papa from papas pizzaria for samsh

 

[Herocin]

At this point that seems more likely.

Once again stop passing off your opinion as fact because it is an opinion you’d like others to believe.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Personally, I think Brawl had the nicest blend. Smash 4 added a lot of new franchises, but AC and the third-parties were the only ones that felt "big". Punch Out, Duck Hunt, and Xenoblade at the time weren't on the same level as the other franchises.



Monster Hunter should still be kept in consideration if Geno was given the benefit of the doubt.

Geno doesn't decide everything.

Wasn't Mac a big ass Smash request? Specifically, a request exclusive to the west as Japan didn't recognize him nor ask for him?

Once again stop passing off your opinion as fact because it is an opinion you’d like others to believe.

Wait hold up they didn't even do that then, just the opinion without pretending it to be factual

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Wasn't Mac a big ass Smash request? Specifically, a request exclusive to the west as Japan didn't recognize him nor ask for him?

He’s from Mike Tyson’s Punch-Out, right? Only middle-aged guys like me would know him.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Honestly, the thing that makes me think Brawl was better than 4 in terms of roster is the first party picks. To me, Brawl had a nice mix of fan favorites and surprises, old and new characters, intruduced 4 new first party franchises to the roster and was the first to include third parties.

In comparison, 4 introduced 6 new first party franchises, only 2 more than Brawl, and most of the selection was restricted to characters that were considered "relevant" in current or past gen. As far as I'm concerned, the third party content pretty much helped carry 4.

So basically... imo, Brawl had a slightly better selection than 4, in their respective times of release.

I do agree that the third party content in Smash 4 was the true highlight. Besides a few exceptions (Little Mac), the most interesting newcomers from Smash 4 were the third party characters. Brawl had excellent first party additions like Wario, Diddy Kong, Pokemon Trainer, and King Dedede. These are characters that are considered legendary among Nintendo fans, it was always going to be hard for Smash 4 to measure up to Brawl's first party inclusions because the biggest Nintendo legends were already added back in Brawl.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He’s from Mike Tyson’s Punch-Out, right? Only middle-aged guys like me would know him.

There was a Punch Out!!! game on the Wii as well so he's not a complete unknown oldie like R.O.B. or anything.

 

[CureParfait]

I honestly don’t think this will happen imo. The " premium " mii outfits so far have only been of indie game characters,
and needless to say, Geno and SMRPG aren’t indie.

I think there is a possible chance that non-indie characters might get Premium Mii Outfits eventually. Since I don't think there's an indication they are going to be indie characters only.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

While I won’t go about seeing Dante as a lock, I do think the timing of that Itsuno interview is rather interesting.

There’s a 3 month gap between that interview and the official announcement of Devil May Cry 1 on Switch. Reminder that this interview was mainly suggested that Dante shouldn’t be in Smash until he actually appears on a Nintendo platform. Worth noting here, Smash has presented itself as a massive crossover and Nintendo is apparently all in on bringing in more franchises if Pass 1 is anything to base that on. It also presents business opportunities to bring new games to Nintendo consoles.

This timing also puts these negotiations prior to what we might be able to point out as “finalization” of Season 2 at E3, so it’s convenient if nothing else. I would also hazard that considering the interview, the implication of “Dante in Smash” isn’t as a spirit. Moreso directed to “playable”.

This is just speculation, of course. There’s nothing that really binds playable Dante to any of this. I do think it’s worth taking note of all of it, however. Devil May Cry 3 has bonus features, not unlike DQXIS, which also wound up getting a playable fighter in Ultimate. The timing seems to work well in theory. We really can only wait and see at this point.

While we got Byleth and therefore more Fie Emblem content, I’m not so sure that Monster Hunter would get a playable fighter. It’s already technically within the crossover, while every single challenger pack has brought entirely new content.

But for all we know, Dante may be within the next Spirit event and be put out of the running.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

While I won’t go about seeing Dante as a lock, I do think the timing of that Itsuno interview is rather interesting.

There’s a 3 month gap between that interview and the official announcement of Devil May Cry 1 on Switch. Reminder that this interview was mainly suggested that Dante shouldn’t be in Smash until he actually appears on a Nintendo platform.

This timing also puts these negotiations prior to what we might be able to point out as “finalization” of Season 2 at E3, so it’s convenient if nothing else. I would also hazard that considering the interview, the implication of “Dante in Smash” isn’t as a spirit. Moreso directed to “playable”.

This is just speculation, of course. There’s nothing that really binds playable Dante to any of this. I do think it’s worth taking note of all of it, however. Devil May Cry 3 has bonus features, not unlike DQXIS, which also wound up getting a playable fighter in Ultimate. The timing seems to work well in theory. We really can only wait and see at this point.

While we got Byleth and therefore more Fie Emblem content, I’m not so sure that Monster Hunter would get a playable fighter. It’s already technically within the crossover, while every single challenger pack has brought entirely new content.

But for all we know, Dante may be within the next Spirit event and be put out of the running.

Plot twist Dante's a mii costume cause Nero's playable

 

[SNEKeater]

I guess it's up to each one but I prefer the first party additions from 4 before the Brawl ones. Just my tastes. Diddy Kong and Ike are great for me, but I'd choose Villager, Palutena, Robin or Shulk before most of the first party additions from Brawl.

 

[Dinoman96]

The "problem" with Smash 4's first party lineup is that they decided to focus more on newer popular characters, and the Smash fandom seems to hate any character that they didn't grow up with.

It can basically be summed up as

 

[Opossum]

Once again stop passing off your opinion as fact because it is an opinion you’d like others to believe.

That's not what he did though. Don't be so defensive...he literally did nothing wrong there.

 

[Herocin]

That's not what he did though. Don't be so defensive...he literally did nothing wrong there.

Didn’t He did though... He said Geno is more likely as a mii not a fighter. I’ve seen quite a few of his posts surrounding Geno and he does seem to do it a lot. I must have misconstrued it if such and I apologise to Wynn if that is the case but I don’t think it is.

 

[Deleted member]

The "problem" with Smash 4's first party lineup is that they decided to focus more on newer popular characters, and the Smash fandom seems to hate any character that they didn't grow up with.

It can basically be summed up as

View attachment 263583

Oh well, that's kind of a general mentality for most of the community, who can't accept in new blood.

Is it me or is it a real sign of aging?

 

[Nemuresu]

My issue with Smash 4's newcomers is that they feel like they came out of those 2012 roster prediction videos. I mean, if you go back to vids like those, you're probably gonna run into a lot people calling Pac-Man, Shulk, Chrom/Lucina/Robin and Little Mac. And you wanna go into way before 4's first trailer, you'd run into a lot of Mega Man predictions as well.

 

[N3ON]

The "problem" with Smash 4's first party lineup is that they decided to focus more on newer popular characters, and the Smash fandom seems to hate any character that they didn't grow up with.

It can basically be summed up as

View attachment 263583

Without getting into why I think leaning more on the popular picks is preferable, ideally there’d be room for both kinds. Not even ideally, in reality there is room for both kinds. Ultimate did it even with its base non-echo roster, and there were only six of those characters.

The thing is that outside of third-parties, Smash 4 leaned entirely on recency. DHD notwithstanding, but that clearly wasn’t a “popularity pick”. It would’ve been nice had they gone for a more expansive span from which to pull. There’s a lot more to Nintendo than the six-ish years that predate any given Smash Bros.

 

[Cosmic77]

The "problem" with Smash 4's first party lineup is that they decided to focus more on newer popular characters, and the Smash fandom seems to hate any character that they didn't grow up with.

It can basically be summed up as

View attachment 263583

I don't think this is entirely true. Inkling, Decidueye, Spring Man, and Rex/Pyra were all highly requested characters prior to Ultimate's reveal.

I think Smash 4's main problem was that Mario, Pokemon, and Animal Crossing were the only major franchises that got new characters. If you had never played KI: Uprising, FE: Awakening, or XC, then the number of first-parties that appealed to you were very limited. You would have to have had very specific tastes.

 

[Deleted member]

The "problem" with Smash 4's first party lineup is that they decided to focus more on newer popular characters, and the Smash fandom seems to hate any character that they didn't grow up with.

It can basically be summed up as

View attachment 263583

The problem with Smash 4's line-up was that it was all leaked and there was no room for shock value or surprise beyond "how does this character play?"

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think Smash 4's main problem was that Mario, Pokemon, and Animal Crossing were the only major franchises that got new characters. If you had never played KI: Uprising, FE: Awakening, or XC, then the number of first-parties that appealed to you were very limited. You would have to have had very specific tastes.

So basically if your tastes weren't super specific refusing to play different kinds of games you'd be happy, got it

 

[3BitSaurus]

The "problem" with Smash 4's first party lineup is that they decided to focus more on newer popular characters, and the Smash fandom seems to hate any character that they didn't grow up with.

It can basically be summed up as

Considering the things I see on this thread sometimes, I suppose this image goes both ways, really.

And as others pointed out, almost every single first party pick on Smash 4 was based on recency, Duck Hunt being the only exception. Had they done this back in Melee or Brawl, Icies, Marth, Pit and several others would never have been a thing, nor some of the revivals that came from it.

 

[wynn728]

While I won’t go about seeing Dante as a lock, I do think the timing of that Itsuno interview is rather interesting.

There’s a 3 month gap between that interview and the official announcement of Devil May Cry 1 on Switch. Reminder that this interview was mainly suggested that Dante shouldn’t be in Smash until he actually appears on a Nintendo platform. Worth noting here, Smash has presented itself as a massive crossover and Nintendo is apparently all in on bringing in more franchises if Pass 1 is anything to base that on. It also presents business opportunities to bring new games to Nintendo consoles.

This timing also puts these negotiations prior to what we might be able to point out as “finalization” of Season 2 at E3, so it’s convenient if nothing else. I would also hazard that considering the interview, the implication of “Dante in Smash” isn’t as a spirit. Moreso directed to “playable”.

This is just speculation, of course. There’s nothing that really binds playable Dante to any of this. I do think it’s worth taking note of all of it, however. Devil May Cry 3 has bonus features, not unlike DQXIS, which also wound up getting a playable fighter in Ultimate. The timing seems to work well in theory. We really can only wait and see at this point.

While we got Byleth and therefore more Fie Emblem content, I’m not so sure that Monster Hunter would get a playable fighter. It’s already technically within the crossover, while every single challenger pack has brought entirely new content.

But for all we know, Dante may be within the next Spirit event and be put out of the running.

If Devil May Cry gets a Spirit Event that would be complete garbage and such a waste of time.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Smash 4's main problem was that Mario, Pokemon, and Animal Crossing were the only major franchises that got new characters.

Bruh.

You're telling me these characters I listed aren't from major gaming series? Maybe I'll understand Fire Emblem because that was only starting to become super popular around Smash 4, but not the third parties.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dear diary, today, I learned that if a 2014 game has a 2009 character, that counts as recent

 

[Guynamednelson]

Bruh.

You're telling me these characters I listed aren't major gaming series?

Major franchises as in Nintendo ones.

 

[Cosmic77]

So basically if your tastes weren't super specific refusing to play different kinds of games you'd be happy, got it

You can't use, "Well, ya should of played the game then!" for every character. Both KI and FE were making a comeback after years of being dormant. A lot of people never even heard of XC or Shulk prior to Smash 4.

I don't think it's crazy to assume a lot of people had never played those games before. You can't be mad at someone for preferring a character from a game they've played over one from a game they haven't played.

Bruh.

You're telling me these characters I listed aren't from major gaming series? Maybe I'll understand Fire Emblem because that was only starting to become super popular around Smash 4, but not the third parties.

The post was talking about first-parties.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here are my thoughts on the fighter's pass (based on characters that are currently in my mind's eye, and my perception of them):

• 2B, Dante, Heihachi, Steve, Dragonborn, and I think Kiryu are the likeliest characters for 6th Fighters Pass slot because they have the biggest appeal without having a strictly regional one. Of these, I'd say that Dragonborn, 2B, Heihachi and perhaps Kiryu are the most likely.
  • I'd add Sora to this list, but I can't remember if he's still in the running or not. If he is though, I'd say he's more on par with Dante and Crash just because of his potentially awful legal situation.
• Master Chief (will I ever spell his name correctly the first time I type it?) and Lara Croft are the most likely candidates for the 7th or 8th Fighters Pass slot because they have a large appeal, albeit only for the west.
• All aforementioned characters are pretty likely picks in general.
• Arle, Professor Layton, Rayman, and Jibanyan are possible picks, but not super likely.
• The indie characters will likely continue to get Mii Costumes that come with music, but I don't foresee any playable indie characters in our future.
  • If we do get one, I think Shantae (who I believe is back on the table assuming base roster spirits do not disconfirm), Knight, and Quote are the most likely characters.
    • Quote would probably only happen if Nintendo was planning on some sort of indie celebration.
• I wouldn't say Geno is a likely pick, but I wouldn't say he's unlikely either.
• Uh who else? Uh...Oh! I don't think we'll be seeing Augumon. I think he'd be more suited to being a base roster inclusion.
• Lastly (for now), I think we could see a Nintendo character that will make their debut from now until next year as one of the last picks.

I'm probably missing some information, and other potential candidates, so I'll hold off on making my full blown predictions of who and when.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It can basically be summed up as

Hey look, it's me!

Only, those N64 characters belong in the zoomer trash pile...

 

[Deleted member]

Major franchises as in Nintendo ones.

The post was talking about first-parties.

So in those regards, we still have NES icons , returning Smash veterans , a game so good fans actively had to campaign for Nintendo to localize it , miis, two bloody Mario reps , Animal Crossing character , and widely successful 3ds titles you'd have to live under a rock to not hear about .

Not seeing the issue.

 

[Opossum]

Didn’t He did though... He said Geno is more likely as a mii not a fighter. I’ve seen quite a few of his posts surrounding Geno and he does seem to do it a lot. I must have misconstrued it if such and I apologise to Wynn if that is the case but I don’t think it is.

Saying that they think Geno is more likely to be a costume isn't attacking Geno though. It's just giving a perfectly valid opinion on his chances. I think that's where the disconnect is.

 

[PSIGuy]

that feel when your most wanted was too late for Smash 4's "relevant characters only" period but not popular enough for Ultimate's "ballot toppers only" approach

 

[Schnee117]

You can't use, "Well, ya should of played the game then!" for every character. Both KI and FE were making a comeback after years of being dormant. A lot of people never even heard of XC or Shulk prior to Smash 4.

FE wasn't dormant lmao.
Shadow Dragon in 2008 (Japan/EU)/2009 (America/Australia)
New Mystery in 2010 (albeit Japan exclusive)
Awakening in 2012 (Japan)/2013 (Everywhere else)

Even taking out New Mystery being Japan exclusive, that's a four year gap.
Absolutely not dormant at all.

And people absolutely heard of Xenoblade because of project rainfall being what got it localised in the first place.

 

[N3ON]

So basically if your tastes weren't super specific refusing to play different kinds of games you'd be happy, got it

Dear diary, today, I learned that if a 2014 game has a 2009 character, that counts as recent

Even for the internet these are quite passive-aggressive

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Honestly I don't get the "hate" for Smash 4 newcomers. They manage to put one of the most wanted character after Sonic announcement: Mega man, and one of the most iconic video game character of all time: Pac-Man. Smash 4 introduce also 2 very big franchise in Smash: Animal crossing and Wii fit (I know a lot of people think Wii fit is a stupid character, but objectively it's a huge character). Also Duck hunt is imo the best retro rep we ever got, Duck hunt is way more popular than Ice climber or than Gyrmoite/Stack-up. Shulk was relatively obscure, but he still represent one of the best Wii game for many fans and critics.