Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

...And here I thought the atrocious load times were enough the kill the game.

And just...The game's camera wasn't great but at least it served it's purpose. Why would you think a fixed camera system would be a good idea in a momentum based game?


Castlevania Judgement was a platform fighter?

No but Dream Mix TV Fighters was. You could also fight as Optimus Prime in there alongside Solid Snake, which came out in 2003

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Damm bros guess Simon Belmont can't be in Smash as he's already in a platform fighter

DreamMix TV World Fighters was years ago and is a dormant series.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

...And here I thought the atrocious load times were enough the kill the game.

And just...The game's camera wasn't great but at least it served it's purpose. Why would you think a fixed camera system would be a good idea in a momentum based game?


Castlevania Judgement was a platform fighter?

They also nerfed his running speed until you beat the game. They claim “3D sickness” was the cause, and iirc this was hot off the heels of the infamous Porygon incident

 

[Cutie Gwen]

DreamMix TV World Fighters was years ago.

Yet they still chose to add Snake despite Snake already being in a platform fighter back when Sakurai hadn't joined Brawl's development team. Almost like it doesn't actually matter because Smash is a juggernaut

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Yet they still chose to add Snake despite Snake already being in a platform fighter back when Sakurai hadn't joined Brawl's development team. Almost like it doesn't actually matter because Smash is a juggernaut

I don't know, it's still a pretty long time between 2003 and 2006.

 

[3BitSaurus]

The pass opener will set the mood for the next season speculation since it's Nintendo opening with their strongest cards. This is the best shot at getting a big mainstream character like Master Chief or Kratos and whatnot, because the more packs that get revealed the less likely a big character becomes.

To add to this, it doesn't just apply to big mainstream characters, but also to picks that people don't really expect, like 2B or a PC gaming rep, along with big fan requests, like Sora or Crash. The best time to reveal these would be the first 2 or 3 slots in season 2.

 

[Opossum]

I could maybe understand the concern if Brawlhalla was anything close to a well known video game.

This is like Disney World being concerned over loss of ticket sales due to a random county fair in Nebraska.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't know, it's still a pretty long time between 2003 and 2006.

Let me tell you something. Nintendo doesn't care. Sakurai doesn't care. This is like claiming SEGA's scared because of the DeviantArt OCs or that Disney's scared of the monster little Timmy drew in fingerpainting class

 

[blackghost]

Okami has become a million seller and a cult classic thanks to consistent re-releases. If that's not catching on, I don't know what is.

this is a quote from the wiki
Ōkami sold 200,000 copies in North America in 2006, grossing approximately US$8 million and ranking as the 100th best selling game of the year in the region.[156] By March 2007, the total sales of the PlayStation 2 version were near 270,000.[52] By comparison, Ōkami sold 66,000 copies in Japan for 2006.[157]

On 30 July 2008, Capcom revealed that the Wii version of Ōkami had sold approximately 280,000 copies in North America and Europe since its release date.[77][162] The Wii version debuted in Japan with a modest 24,000 copies sold in its first week in the region.[163] It was the sixth-bestselling game in Japan on 23 October 2009.[164] Total sales for the game remained under 600,000 total units by March 2009, and was named the "least commercially successful winner of a game of the year award" in the 2010 version of the Guinness World Records Gamer's Edition.[165]

Ōkami HD sold 16,536 copies on PlayStation 4 within its first week on sale in Japan, which placed it at number 18 on the all format sales chart.[167] By September 2019, Ōkami HD had exceeded one million sales on the PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and Nintendo Switch,[168] while all versions of Ōkami have sold 2.8 million units worldwide.

article later clarifies that 2.8 for okami hd is across all three systems combined.

it got its sales through attrition. okami released in 2006, 2007, 2009 (2x) and 2017. not from high individual releases. its not catching on. it is a game that people that have played it loved and people have praised it for but its not a popular title. is it a shame? yeah it is but unique art direction and quality gameplay arent guarantees something is popular.

also which dlc character in ultimate is anything of a cult classic? precedent matters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

No but Dream Mix TV Fighters was. You could also fight as Optimus Prime in there alongside Solid Snake, which came out in 2003

Oh yeah that game! lol

They also nerfed his running speed until you beat the game. They claim “3D sickness” was the cause, and iirc this was hot off the heels of the infamous Porygon incident

"Congratulations! You beat the game! For your troubles, we've unlocked motion sickness mode for you!" Like...what?

I thought you were talking about the Reignited Trilogy until the end so I was even more baffled. How was that game handled in Japan?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oh yeah that game! lol


"Congratulations! You beat the game! For your troubles, we've unlocked motion sickness mode for you!" Like...what?

I thought you were talking about the Reignited Trilogy until the end so I was even more baffled. How was that game handled in Japan?

I have no idea if that even WAS released in Japan or not. Given Spyro’s reputation being tarnished back then I doubt it

they also added some gimmick with the Pocketstation in the Japanese version, just for the sake of driving Pocketstation sales lmao

 

[CroonerMike]

Yes! Another Streets of Rage fan!

One of my favorite games. Literally all I legit want in smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

this is a quote from the wiki
Ōkami sold 200,000 copies in North America in 2006, grossing approximately US$8 million and ranking as the 100th best selling game of the year in the region.[156] By March 2007, the total sales of the PlayStation 2 version were near 270,000.[52] By comparison, Ōkami sold 66,000 copies in Japan for 2006.[157]

On 30 July 2008, Capcom revealed that the Wii version of Ōkami had sold approximately 280,000 copies in North America and Europe since its release date.[77][162] The Wii version debuted in Japan with a modest 24,000 copies sold in its first week in the region.[163] It was the sixth-bestselling game in Japan on 23 October 2009.[164] Total sales for the game remained under 600,000 total units by March 2009, and was named the "least commercially successful winner of a game of the year award" in the 2010 version of the Guinness World Records Gamer's Edition.[165]

Ōkami HD sold 16,536 copies on PlayStation 4 within its first week on sale in Japan, which placed it at number 18 on the all format sales chart.[167] By September 2019, Ōkami HD had exceeded one million sales on the PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and Nintendo Switch,[168] while all versions of Ōkami have sold 2.8 million units worldwide.

article later clarifies that 2.8 for okami hd is across all three systems combined.

it got its sales through attrition. okami released in 2006, 2007, 2009 (2x) and 2017. not from high individual releases. its not catching on. it is a game that people that have played it loved and people have praised it for but its not a popular title. is it a shame? yeah it is but unique art direction and quality gameplay arent guarantees something is popular.

also which dlc character in ultimate is anything of a cult classic? precedent matters.

Banjo's only claim to fame is one game, fans MAYBE care about the second game, but nobody cares about the other 3, with Japan not even getting them. So I'd say Okami certainly qualifies in that regard, especially as seen with fan reception to MvC

 

[Garteam]

this is a quote from the wiki
Ōkami sold 200,000 copies in North America in 2006, grossing approximately US$8 million and ranking as the 100th best selling game of the year in the region.[156] By March 2007, the total sales of the PlayStation 2 version were near 270,000.[52] By comparison, Ōkami sold 66,000 copies in Japan for 2006.[157]

On 30 July 2008, Capcom revealed that the Wii version of Ōkami had sold approximately 280,000 copies in North America and Europe since its release date.[77][162] The Wii version debuted in Japan with a modest 24,000 copies sold in its first week in the region.[163] It was the sixth-bestselling game in Japan on 23 October 2009.[164] Total sales for the game remained under 600,000 total units by March 2009, and was named the "least commercially successful winner of a game of the year award" in the 2010 version of the Guinness World Records Gamer's Edition.[165]

Ōkami HD sold 16,536 copies on PlayStation 4 within its first week on sale in Japan, which placed it at number 18 on the all format sales chart.[167] By September 2019, Ōkami HD had exceeded one million sales on the PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and Nintendo Switch,[168] while all versions of Ōkami have sold 2.8 million units worldwide.

article later clarifies that 2.8 for okami hd is across all three systems combined.

it got its sales through attrition. okami released in 2006, 2007, 2009 (2x) and 2017. not from high individual releases. its not catching on. it is a game that people that have played it loved and people have praised it for but its not a popular title. is it a shame? yeah it is but unique art direction and quality gameplay arent guarantees something is popular.

also which dlc character in ultimate is anything of a cult classic? precedent matters.

Isn't receiving an upwards trend in sales after each rerelease a good example of slowly catching on though? Brand awareness for Okami and demand more Okami products only increases as time goes on. Kamiya wouldn't have been able to tease an Okami sequel on Twitter 5 years ago. Why does it matter this is not done in a single release? That's like saying Earthbound isn't a popular game because it only did 140k on its original release, ignoring that that the series dominated the Wii U E-Shop and was a major selling point for the massively successful SNES Classic Edition.

Also, in terms of not having a cult classic character in Fighter's Pass 1, . Banjo and Kazooie are basically only popular for starring in two games from the N64 era and the character has maintained popularity through positive word of mouth on those games. If that's not a cult classic character, I don't know what is.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Banjo's only claim to fame is one game, fans MAYBE care about the second game, but nobody cares about the other 3, with Japan not even getting them.

I care about the second game and the other three (well except I haven’t played Banjo-Pilot but still).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I care about the second game and the other three (well except I haven’t played Banjo-Pilot but still).

You don't actually exist so you don't count

 

[TheCJBrine]

You don't actually exist so you don't count

What do you mean I-

...I don’t feel so good...

 

[Schnee117]

We're already repeating the Heihachi bull**** from a few days ago huh lmao

 

[Evil Trapezium]

We're already repeating the Heihachi bull**** from a few days ago huh lmao

Yeah but it's over now. We all know the real reason Heihachi can't join is because he's canonically dead.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah but it's over now. We all know the real reason Heihachi can't join is because he's canonically dead.

As isand. That didn't stop them from joining.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah but it's over now. We all know the real reason Heihachi can't join is because he's canonically dead.

So you're telling me dEad theory is false? I for one find that very hard to believe.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Yeah but it's over now. We all know the real reason Heihachi can't join is because he's canonically dead.

Technically aren’t a lot of characters canonically dead just based on progression of timelines? Like Young Link, Toon Link, and the FEs... Heihachi could still be alive if he was brought in from a earlier time period lol

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Technically aren’t a lot of characters canonically dead just based on progression of timelines? Like Young Link, Toon Link, and the FEs... Heihachi could still be alive if he was brought in from a earlier time period lol

Toon Link isn't, actually. He's not specifically WW Link but the artstyle. One of his games he's from is listed is Spirit Tracks. Though that one is probably dead in the timeline too?

Regardless, exactly. This kind of thing doesn't matter. Really, the biggest question at most for Heihachi(besides how to be implement him) is old or young. I'm for the old version too, mind you.

 

[blackghost]

Isn't receiving an upwards trend in sales after each rerelease a good example of slowly catching on though? Brand awareness for Okami and demand more Okami products only increases as time goes on. Kamiya wouldn't have been able to tease an Okami sequel on Twitter 5 years ago. Why does it matter this is not done in a single release? That's like saying Earthbound isn't a popular game because it only did 140k on its original release, ignoring that that the series dominated the Wii U E-Shop and was a major selling point for the massively successful SNES Classic Edition.

Also, in terms of not having a cult classic character in Fighter's Pass 1, . Banjo and Kazooie are basically only popular for starring in two games from the N64 era and the character has maintained popularity through positive word of mouth on those games. If that's not a cult classic character, I don't know what is.

banjo kazioo sold 3.6 million and is top 10 in n64 games sold. thats not a cult classic. and your earthbound example doesnt work because nintendo has made it pretty clear they arent releasing mother 3 anywhere else. earthbound 1 did 440k in total sales. with 3/4 coming in japan only. Nintendo doesnt think the mother series has mass appeal. most people only know them as the pk bois in smash these days.

Banjo's only claim to fame is one game, fans MAYBE care about the second game, but nobody cares about the other 3, with Japan not even getting them. So I'd say Okami certainly qualifies in that regard, especially as seen with fan reception to MvC

okami didnt even get that far. banjo has 3 total games. whether or not fans like them is a different matter. between a nonpresnece in japan and a presence in america built of more than 10 years of re-releases no i dont think okami is getting in.

i do love how the goalposts shift. people argued games like bayonetta 2 was a failure when its total sales are greater than okami who is deemed by some to be popular. im not doubting people love the game and character but i wouldnt call okami popular or even trending upward. more like treading water.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Toon Link isn't, actually. He's not specifically WW Link but the artstyle. One of his games he's from is listed is Spirit Tracks. Though that one is probably dead in the timeline too?

Too bad he doesn't have any attacks specific to those games in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Toon Link isn't, actually. He's not specifically WW Link but the artstyle. One of his games he's from is listed is Spirit Tracks. Though that one is probably dead in the timeline too?

Huh, I kind of assumed Toon Link was literally just Wind Waker Link, not some amalgam. I guess that makes sense though, since he disappears on Spirit Tracks if you’re playing as him

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Too bad he doesn't have any attacks specific to those games in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

Traditional clone problems.

I hope he gets some differences in the next game. Ganondorf got a huge change-up, after all(ironically it's his only Sword not from an actual game he used. Unless it got reused in HW? Either way, non-canon sword).

Huh, I kind of assumed Toon Link was literally just Wind Waker Link, not some amalgam. I guess that makes sense though, since he disappears on Spirit Tracks if you’re playing as him

Any Link causes that. But yeah, it's even described as "as he appears in Wind Waker". It makes sense, though. He's a Cartoon Link. Albeit, what else could he be called anyway, really?

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Any Link causes that.

Oh really? That just seems weird to me lol, you can have all three of them fighting each other, but a background character? Get him off the stage, he’ll ruin the immersion!

 

[Pinguino21v]

The most likely western rep I think is Crash and Master Chief.

Guess we can agree on Crash, Master Chief, Rayman and Lara Croft being the most likely westerns then?

Minecraft is literally the best selling game of all time, is popular in Jspan as well, and the company that releases it (Microsoft) is already in the game, making negotiations easier. Nobody comes close.

That's also my opinion. Steve is definitively the most likely western character. He has the worldwide renown and success, the moveset potential, Sakurai liked the game, and Microsoft is already in the game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

banjo kazioo sold 3.6 million and is top 10 in n64 games sold. thats not a cult classic. and your earthbound example doesnt work because nintendo has made it pretty clear they arent releasing mother 3 anywhere else. earthbound 1 did 440k in total sales. with 3/4 coming in japan only. Nintendo doesnt think the mother series has mass appeal. most people only know them as the pk bois in smash these days.



okami didnt even get that far. banjo has 3 total games. whether or not fans like them is a different matter. between a nonpresnece in japan and a presence in america built of more than 10 years of re-releases no i dont think okami is getting in.

i do love how the goalposts shift. people argued games like bayonetta 2 was a failure when its total sales are greater than okami who is deemed by some to be popular. im not doubting people love the game and character but i wouldnt call okami popular or even trending upward. more like treading water.

5 games. Banjo Kazooie had 5 games. Banjo is almost exclusively recognized as "That one game from the N64".


Also the hell are you going on about when the point was that Banjo's cult classic status means Ammy's cult classic status can't be dismissed

 

[MisterMike]

Are we just going to forget how Sakurai states that he want to use Smash Bros to promote Japanese Games? Sakurai chose the characters to help make Japanese games be successful throughout the world. Which is a reason why western made characters have been either Mii Costumes (Assassin's Creed, Cuphead), Spirits (Ray-Man), or Assist Trophy (Shovel Knight).

Now when I say "catered towards Japanese audience" that doesn't mean it will only be focus on them (for the most part). In Japan they wanted K. Rool and Banjo as well, so not only did it cater to western audience it also catered to Japanese audience as well. And that's going to be the key thing, out of the six DLC character they're not going to be characters that the Japanese audience don't know about/don't care for. They don't care for Doom over there, so Doomguy is going to be a Mii Costume at best. Mortal Kombat for the most part isn't sold in Japan, so we're not going to get a Mortal Kombat character ever in Smash Bros. The only time they're going to put a character in that doesn't cater at all to the Japanese audience would be in the base game (like Ridley and Little Mac) so they don't have to sell those types of characters as DLC. So just like with all the characters in Vol 1 if they have a presence with the Japanese audience then they're most likely to be in Vol 2, if they don't interest the Japanese audience at all then they're not getting in.

It's going to be super rare to get another western made character, especially since Sakurai prefers to work with Japanese Studios since it's easier and there isn't a language barrier. The only western studio that has a chance of getting another western character in is Microsoft. Even then it still doesn't seem likely.

Okay, since my point has once again flown straight over your head, allow me to try and get it across as clearly and concisely as I can.

Spoiler: Spoiler'd for size

I don't disagree with your assertion that it's unlikely we'll be getting many western characters for Vol.2. Given the general difficulties of working with foreign companies, it's no suprise that Nintendo would be more likely to work with Japanese companies and characters. My issue is your claiming that this is because they have a Japanese bias. You have not adequately proven that this is the case whatsoever.

The fact that Sakurai said that he wanted to use Smash Bros. to promote Japanese games is not sufficient to make the definitive, broad claim that Vol.2 will be entirely comprised of either characters of a Japanese origin, or characters that mostly or entirely cater to the Japanese fanbase. It also isn't sufficient to support your claim that a Mortal Kombat character will never be playable in Smash Bros.

This reminds me of an argument you made once before. You made the claim that Sakurai hates Waluigi, and to support this assertion you pointed to two details: The "Pic of the Day" regarding Waluigi from Smash 4 wherein Sakurai revealed that Waluigi is once again an Assist Trophy summon, and the fact that as of Smash Ultimate, Waluigi still isn't a playable fighter. You assert that this is evidence that Sakurai has a distaste for the character, because why else would he do this?

The reason this is a bad argument is because you are trying to use the results of Sakurai's actions as claims of his intent. "Because Sakurai did or didn't do X, he must clearly believe Y." Smash Bros. is a massive game with hundreds of unique characters, stages, and other assorted details, and the reasons for why those details are the way they are is as vast and as varied as these details are numerous.

Chrom was rejected for Smash 4 because he was too similar to Marth, however that same derivative nature made him an ideal pick for inclusion in Ultimate. Incineroar was chosen over Decidueye as the Pokemon character for Smash Ultimate because it's fighting style was more unique. Banjo and Kazooie were added due to the duo's consistent popularity with fans. Ridley, King K. Rool and Simon were chosen as the result of fan imput from the Fighter Ballot.

The issue I have with your argument is that you are once again presenting your opinion as fact. It is your opinion that we'll most likely only be getting characters that have a sufficient demand from Japanese audiences, and it is your opinion that western character that lack such foreign demand will never get in, and you have your reasons for believing that to be the case based on past precedent, which is entirely fine. However, when you try to argue your opinion as either the most likely outcome or the one true outcome, and you don't have anything definitive enough to back up said opinion, that's where you've crossed the line.

Sakurai saying that he wants to use Smash Bros. to promote Japanese Games does not at all mean that he has a bias that indicates we'll almost entirely be getting characters that are known or demanded by Japanese audiences, nor does it mean that characters like Scorpion who lack that Japanese demand or recognition will never be in Smash. There are plenty of reasons as to why characters get chosen for Smash, and while demand and recognition by different cultures is a factor, it's not nearly as important as you seem to think it is.

TL;DR Your opinions aren't facts, stop acting as though they are and make better arguments.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh really? That just seems weird to me lol, you can have all three of them fighting each other, but a background character? Get him off the stage, he’ll ruin the immersion!

Well, that's in Smash 4. I don't remember if Ultimate does that too. All stages(according to PR, at least) were remade from the ground up. No clue if he redid that again for the other 2 Links.

 

[Sari]

It’s ok, I want Axel and Blaze from Streets of Rage the most lol

Yes! Another Streets of Rage fan!

I'm so glad to see some Streets of Rage fans here because I've got a surprise for you guys in a day or two.

 

[wynn728]

He just said he thought there were too many FE characters and that Byleth wasn't even the one he wanted if there was to be another.

Even last time he said Corrin wasn't his idea either and intimated his concerns on the volume of FE characters.

These inclusions are clearly at the behest of other parties.

Sakurai was the one who suggested Corrin and his team said that it would be good. The first seven FE characters were all Sakurai's decisions, Byleth he could've said no. Sakurai had the power to just say "We have too many FE characters as of now and it would be a bad idea to have a character like Byleth as the last character to be added to Ultimate." Nintendo didn't force him to make Byleth, they didn't lock him in a closet a withheld food from him until he was ready to comply; he was fine with it. He even got to play Three Houses early so that was a great deal for him.

Sakurai saying he had concerns means nothing when you already follow through with it. It's an easy thing to say to the people who were annoy with the amount of FE characters. If he truly believe that there was already too much then he wouldn't have continue on since this is a game he's making, not Nintendo. His concern holds no real weight, he'll be happy to add in a ninth FE character in Vol 2 whetherbit be from an upcoming remake in 2021 or from FE Heroes.

That's one hell of a flawed argument by assuming what Sakurai will do or won't do like you know the guy. If Sakurai would say that he could veto anything, why would he withdraw any account of doing so? It's likely that he accepts them without radical rejection.

How do you think it will turn out if Sakurai admits that he veto a couple of characters? Do you think people will be okay with the fact that whatever character got veto will never happen in Smash? What if Sakurai came out and said who those characters were, saying Nintendo suggested a character who was already an Assist Trophy or a Mii Costume to be playable but Sakurai said no. There are a lot of backroom talks that will never get revealed because people ain't going to like what they have to say. And just coming straight out saying that some characters were vetoed would lead a bunch of people to bug Sakurai on knowing who they were.

 

[Deleted member]

5 games. Banjo Kazooie had 5 games. Banjo is almost exclusively recognized as "That one game from the N64".


Also the hell are you going on about when the point was that Banjo's cult classic status means Ammy's cult classic status can't be dismissed

Amaterasu is a case where her cult status needs to be really obnoxiously vocal for her to push ahead of other Capcom series like Street Fighter or Ace Attorney. Banjo was like the only Microsoft rep people pushed for throughout years of backing before "Minecraft content" was leaked by Verge. Amaterasu is only one of many Capcom series people want in Smash.

She's not impossible, but I'd be shocked if she got in.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Waluigi will always be too purple to ever be a playable character!

Off-topic joke aside, what would your reaction be in the hypothetical scenario where Axel Stone from Streets of Rage was the first DLC character for Vol 2?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

As isand. That didn't stop them from joining.

If that's true then why are they alive in Smash Bros? That means they're not dead! Heihachi ain't in Smash so that means he's dead for real.

So you're telling me dEad theory is false? I for one find that very hard to believe.

Dead theory is dead.

Technically aren’t a lot of characters canonically dead just based on progression of timelines? Like Young Link, Toon Link, and the FEs... Heihachi could still be alive if he was brought in from a earlier time period lol

Then how come they're alive in Super Smash Bros? That means they're not dead.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Sakurai was the one who suggested Corrin and his team said that it would be good. The first seven FE characters were all Sakurai's decisions, Byleth he could've said no. Sakurai had the power to just say "We have too many FE characters as of now and it would be a bad idea to have a character like Byleth as the last character to be added to Ultimate." Nintendo didn't force him to make Byleth, they didn't lock him in a closet a withheld food from him until he was ready to comply; he was fine with it. He even got to play Three Houses early so that was a great deal for him.

Sakurai saying he had concerns means nothing when you already follow through with it. It's an easy thing to say to the people who were annoy with the amount of FE characters. If he truly believe that there was already too much then he wouldn't have continue on since this is a game he's making, not Nintendo. His concern holds no real weight, he'll be happy to add in a ninth FE character in Vol 2 whetherbit be from an upcoming remake in 2021 or from FE Heroes.


How do you think it will turn out if Sakurai admits that he veto a couple of characters? Do you think people will be okay with the fact that whatever character got veto will never happen in Smash? What if Sakurai came out and said who those characters were, saying Nintendo suggested a character who was already an Assist Trophy or a Mii Costume to be playable but Sakurai said no. There are a lot of backroom talks that will never get revealed because people ain't going to like what they have to say. And just coming straight out saying that some characters were vetoed would lead a bunch of people to bug Sakurai on knowing who they were.

Corrin being FE wasn’t why they were chosen, it was wanting a new character and FE Fates’s timing.
http://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/23/496/ He did discuss things with Nintendo, too. No, they didn’t force him, but I think his reasoning is understandable instead of crying “umg FE bias.”

And I don’t know why you base your arguments on what he may or may not be truly thinking or that he may be lying or withholding information. This is part of why everyone is tired of arguing with you regarding Sakurai and other things.

 

[Deleted member]

Waluigi will always be too purple to ever be a playable character!

Off-topic joke aside, what would your reaction be in the hypothetical scenario where Axel Stone from Streets of Rage was the first DLC character for Vol 2?

"At least the music's good."

No seriously. I'm completely indifferent to Street of Rage, but its soundtracks, especially Street of Rage 2 Remake, are well done.

 

[cosmicB]

If this happens I can take solace knowing that Nintendo is just as stupid as I've always assumed. I'm more grateful to Phil Spencer for letting Banjo join than Nintendo doing what was an obvious consideration in the first place. The best decisions are all there. Nintendo need only ask and receive most of them more than likely.

The fact that we had to get characters like Ridley and King K Rool in threw a voting ballot is the saddest fact there is. Them not realizing how integral certain inclusions are until much later has always made me laugh in disgust.

That's a dumb way of looking at it. There could be 30 more characters coming, all from different 3rd party series, and you could still make a fantastic roster consisting of only Japanese characters.


Side note, it is interesting how all but 1 western character is owned by a Japanese company, and said character at their heights was also owned by that company. I think that's something to keep in mind when discussing precedent and what it means going forward. Characters like Crash or Master Chief being added would be the first time a western character not directly associated with Nintendo at its most popular point gets added to the roster and should absolutely change speculation going forward.