Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[CroonerMike]

It really pains me when my two most wanted characters are less likely to get in.

It’s ok, I want Axel and Blaze from Streets of Rage the most lol

 

[Mamboo07]

It really pains me when my two most wanted characters are less likely to get in.

Same as me, I want both Poochy and Shake King, those two are not requested by people.

 

[blackghost]

*Crossing fingers for Amaterasu/Okami 2 game*

Not counting my chickens before they hatch though.

unless nintendo funds it okami 2 is never happening. game has been re-released multiple times and never caught on.


seriously people? brawlhalla is not competition to smash. a simple twitch views and sales comparison will show that. im not even sure if brawhalla is even with rivals in terms of views and sales.

mk characters are well known as is the series but its not the only thing that matters. mk games have incredibly short competitive life spans, mk as a whole didnt contribute innovations like fatal fury or sf did. heihachi was the face of the franchise that ran (and still runs) the 3d fighting game. MK has barely ever had a prense in japan (or even in other parts of the world). tekken has. countries like india, pakistan, saudi arabia, Columbia, brazil, Egypt, and more have tekken scenes. The best tekken player in the world is from pakistan. tekken is beyond mk. mk gets a lot of causal fans but long term genre impact is minimal. not saying it cannot happen but i think mk is getting in.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

It’s ok, I want Axel and Blaze from Streets of Rage the most lol

Yes! Another Streets of Rage fan!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Guess we can agree on Crash, Master Chief, Rayman and Lara Croft being the most likely westerns then?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

unless nintendo funds it okami 2 is never happening. game has been re-released multiple times and never caught on.


seriously people? brawlhalla is not competition to smash. a simple twitch views and sales comparison will show that. im not even sure if brawhalla is even with rivals in terms of views and sales.

mk characters are well known as is the series but its not the only thing that matters. mk games have incredibly short competitive life spans, mk as a whole didnt contribute innovations like fatal fury or sf did. heihachi was the face of the franchise that ran (and still runs) the 3d fighting game. MK has barely ever had a prense in japan (or even in other parts of the world). tekken has. countries like india, pakistan, saudi arabia, Columbia, brazil, Egypt, and more have tekken scenes. The best tekken player in the world is from pakistan. tekken is beyond mk. mk gets a lot of causal fans but long term genre impact is minimal. not saying it cannot happen but i think mk is getting in.

Kamiya said in 2019 that Okami will be back https://twitter.com/nakamura193/status/1185203513543933953?s=19

But I'm guessing that development haven't start or it's still very early into it.

 

[Opossum]

Guess we can agree on Crash, Master Chief, Rayman and Lara Croft being the most likely westerns then?

Not only is Rayman already a spirit, but Rayman sells absolutely terribly in Japan.

Like to the point where Code Name: S.T.E.A.M., a game that absolutely BOMBED in Japan and didn't even sell 2,000 copies in its first week, managed to outsell Rayman Legends in its first week there.

When Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. sells more copies than you do, it's never a good sign.

 

[Garteam]

unless nintendo funds it okami 2 is never happening. game has been re-released multiple times and never caught on.

Okami has become a million seller and a cult classic thanks to consistent re-releases. If that's not catching on, I don't know what is.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

We better get an Okami 2.

Amaterasu maybe unlikely for Smash but she definitely has a shot getting a sequel.

 

[Herocin]

If they put a western character then it's going to be a character that has appeal to the Japanese audience. Games like Doom and Mortal Kombat have no presence in Japan, so they're not going to happen. For Nintendo & Sakurai it's a 100% okay to add character that only have presence Japan, like how Fire Emblem didn't release outside of Japan when Melee was happening and how Mother 3 is still exclusive in Japan, because that's who they really want to appeal to. Looking at the Fighters Pass Vol 1 each character has presence for the Japanese audience (including Banjo). They're not going to make a DLC character that doesn't appeal to the Japanese fans since they will most likely not buy it.

But I also doubt they're going to include another western character in Smash. It took 20 years to get just one and it's only because Microsoft and Rare were really pushing for Banjo so much that they were easy to work with. Doesn't seem like they're going to really bother getting more characters like that unless the circumstances are favorable.

Once again knock it off with the absurd fanrules fact stuff. Your opinion is your opinion. Stop passing it off as fact. It could happen but to YOU it can’t.

 

[SNEKeater]

A new Okami game would be fantastic. I don't think Amaterasu has a real shot for Smash, and that comes from someone who would like to see her in Smash. But a sequel to Okami is one of my pipe dreams.

 

[PeridotGX]

Guess we can agree on Crash, Master Chief, Rayman and Lara Croft being the most likely westerns then?

The two most likely western characters, in my opinion, are Dhovakiin and Steve. Skyrim was massive in Japan and was literally the second game ever shown on the Switch (BoTW was first). Minecraft is literally the best selling game of all time, is popular in Jspan as well, and the company that releases it (Microsoft) is already in the game, making negotiations easier. Nobody comes close.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Crash, Steve, Dovahkiin, Master Chief and Lara Croft it is then I see for most likely westerns.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Not only is Rayman already a spirit, but Rayman sells absolutely terribly in Japan.

Like to the point where Code Name: S.T.E.A.M., a game that absolutely BOMBED in Japan and didn't even sell 2,000 copies in its first week, managed to outsell Rayman Legends in its first week there.

When Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. sells more copies than you do, it's never a good sign.

I'm just gonna use this opportunity to encourage everyone to play Code Name: S.T.E.A.M.. It is such a good game.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that there will be any Western made characters in FP2.

 

[Eldrake]

I just wanted to say this, if (and that's a big if) we're getting a character reveal next week, then I will be happy that we're going into this reveal completely blind. Bring on the pass opener Nintendo, if they're ready for presentation.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Guess we can agree on Crash, Master Chief, Rayman and Lara Croft being the most likely westerns then?

I don't think Master Chief and Lara Croft are very likely.

The Brawlhalla leak of Lara Croft does lower the chances of her appearing as a playable character in Smash Bros.
Master Chief I think teeters on the border of unlikely. I think if Microsoft is getting another rep, it'll most likely be Steve and that's if Sakurai can figure out a moveset for him.

However I think Crash Bandicoot has a pretty decent shot just from fan demand alone.

Don't really need to explain why I think Rayman has no shot at being playable.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

When discussing Steve with somebody I know that has much more experience in game design, something to consider with him is how his design, not appearance, clashes with Smash.

Most characters in Smash have their limbs, and then their hands and feet are bigger than they probably should be so that the hitboxes work properly. This isn’t just Smash that does this...Tekken and Street Fighter characters typically have massive feet.

With Steve, his arms are just boxes. There aren’t any hands involved, which makes the design a potential problem. Steve could attack with an entirely tool based moveset, but I simply think that that’s something to think about.

I would also throw at least Crash Bandicoot into the “western” mix. A 90’s competitor with Sonic and Mario, is the collection on Switch last year or such...would be an entirely worthwhile pick in my humble opinion.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

For Nintendo & Sakurai it's a 100% okay to add character that only have presence Japan, like how Fire Emblem didn't release outside of Japan when Melee was happening and how Mother 3 is still exclusive in Japan, because that's who they really want to appeal to.

Counterpoint: Fire Emblem had a known title that was going to be localized at the time of Marth and Roy's inclusion, and Sakurai was unaware that Mother 3 wasn't going to be localized when he added Lucas, and upon learning this, he added Ness back into Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Crash, Steve, Dovahkiin, Master Chief and Lara Croft it is then I see for most likely westerns.

As far as those go I'd say the chances are highest for Steve and Dragonborn since they have a more worldwide appeal, followed by Master Chief and Lara due to their impact on gaming, and then Crash and Spyro's chances lag behind since they've been irrelevant for a long time and aren't really that large as franchises even after their resurgences.

Rayman is in a similar boat as Crash and Spyro, but with Japan's affluence in his way (acutally, Spyro may have this issue as well no that I think about it). And uh...Dark Souls is a thing that exists as well I guess. Dunno much about it but it might be worth discussing.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The Brawlhalla leak of Lara Croft does lower the chances of her appearing as a playable character in Smash Bros.

Brawlhalla doesn't effect an characters chances. That's like saying Heihachi can't be in Smash because he already starred in PSABR.

 

[Deleted member]

Not only is Rayman already a spirit, but Rayman sells absolutely terribly in Japan.

Like to the point where Code Name: S.T.E.A.M., a game that absolutely BOMBED in Japan and didn't even sell 2,000 copies in its first week, managed to outsell Rayman Legends in its first week there.

When Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. sells more copies than you do, it's never a good sign.

Excuse me, correct me if I’m wrong but, I’ve heard that a character getting into Smash could potentially help their series sell well and be more well known and popular in a country where it isn’t, like Dragon Quest's inclusion helping it be more popular here in the west.
Wouldn’t Rayman’s inclusion do the same, but in reverse( popular here, but not in Japan, inclusion in Smash could potentially help)?

 

[Wunderwaft]

I just wanted to say this, if (and that's a big if) we're getting a character reveal next week, then I will be happy that we're going into this reveal completely blind. Bring on the pass opener Nintendo, if they're ready for presentation.

The pass opener will set the mood for the next season speculation since it's Nintendo opening with their strongest cards. This is the best shot at getting a big mainstream character like Master Chief or Kratos and whatnot, because the more packs that get revealed the less likely a big character becomes.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know, a character's popularity in Japan (or lack thereof) may not be as big of an issue as we make it out to be. Super Smash Bros. operates on a worldwide scale, and Nintendo's choices have so far reflected this with characters that appeal to different sections of the world. Of course, Nintendo's gonna know Japan the best, it is a Japanese company after all, but I'm not sure there's much evidence to suggest that they're treating Japan as the be-all end-all for character support. In fact, a western character's biggest roadblock may just be communications between the two companies due to language barriers and a difference in customs.

 

[Herocin]

I don't think that there will be any Western made characters in FP2.

I don’t really know why you constantly just come out of the blue and say you don’t think something will happen when it’s being discussed. You could probably write why you don’t think something will happen so it doesn’t like like you are solely trying to convince people what you are saying won’t happen or the like. Or just let someone view a predictions list or something along those lines so they wouldn’t have to constantly be made aware about what you think will happen or not. Like I said you should probably at least provide some reasoning so it doesn’t come off as you trying to convince others it won’t happen or something like that

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Brawlhalla doesn't effect an characters chances. That's like saying Heihachi can't be in Smash because he already starred in PSABR.

How do we know it doesn't? Heihachi hasn't become playable in Smash Bros yet. It's possible that they might have put her in Brawlhalla because she was rejected for Smash Bros.

Regardless of the reason, there are many other Square Enix characters to pick from so she's got a lot of competition. In fact Nintendo might not even double dip with the same company at all.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I don't think that there will be any Western made characters in FP2.

If this happens I can take solace knowing that Nintendo is just as stupid as I've always assumed. I'm more grateful to Phil Spencer for letting Banjo join than Nintendo doing what was an obvious consideration in the first place. The best decisions are all there. Nintendo need only ask and receive most of them more than likely.

The fact that we had to get characters like Ridley and King K Rool in threw a voting ballot is the saddest fact there is. Them not realizing how integral certain inclusions are until much later has always made me laugh in disgust.

 

[Droodle]

You know, a character's popularity in Japan (or lack thereof) may not be as big of an issue as we make it out to be. Super Smash Bros. operates on a worldwide scale, and Nintendo's choices have so far reflected this with characters that appeal to different sections of the world. Of course, Nintendo's gonna know Japan the best, it is a Japanese company after all, but I'm not sure there's much evidence to suggest that they're treating Japan as the be-all end-all for character support. In fact, a western character's biggest roadblock may just be communications between the two companies due to language barriers and a difference in customs.

I pretty much agree with you. That said, a smaller character from Japan (who is decently popular there, but small everywhere else) has a way higher chance of happening then a smaller character from the West (Banjo being an exception due to demand).

 

[DarthEnderX]

How do we know it doesn't? Heihachi hasn't become playable in Smash Bros yet. It's possible that they might have put her in Brawlhalla because she was rejected for Smash Bros.

Okay then. A better example is:
Terry can't be in Smash because he was already in Fighting EX Layer.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I'm just gonna use this opportunity to encourage everyone to play Code Name: S.T.E.A.M.. It is such a good game.

I see you are a man of culture as well.

 

[Opossum]

Excuse me, correct me if I’m wrong but, I’ve heard that a character getting into Smash could potentially help their series sell well and be more well known and popular in a country where it isn’t, like Dragon Quest's inclusion helping it be more popular here in the west.
Wouldn’t Rayman’s inclusion do the same, but in reverse( popular here, but not in Japan, inclusion in Smash could potentially help)?

I'd say the situation is quite a bit different. Dragon Quest outside of Japan still regularly sold several hundred thousand copies per entry.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I don't really understand why some people don't see Rayman as legitimate contender for a western rep, While being popular in Japan helps, But It's not an absolute death sentence.

While Rayman is not the biggest name, He still a significant character and represents one of the biggest 3rd party's in gaming as Ubisoft's company mascot, Hell how many western gaming company's can you say got a chance to work on Mario ?

- Ubisoft has collaborated on not just Mario, But Donkey Kong and Star Fox as well.

- Nintendo published Rayman Legends for Japan.

- Rayman Legends had Mario and Luigi costumes for Rayman and Globox

- Ubisoft provided a 3D model for trophy for Smash 4.

- Rayman spirit already in game and costumes of Rabbids and Assassins Creed recently added.

Rayman has a lot going for him regardless of his status in Japan and I can totally see a scenario where Nintendo and Ubisoft's strong partnership leads to an agreement to add Rayman as a way of showing thanks for their work together.

Like I said before I truly believe Crash Bandicoot and Rayman have the best chance in terms of western gaming/representation to make season 2, Whether it's one or the other and it's longshot, But maybe even both.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't really understand why some people don't see Rayman as legitimate contender for a western rep, While being popular in Japan helps, It's not a complete death sentence.

While Rayman is not the biggest name, He still a significant character and represents one of the biggest 3rd party's in gaming as Ubisoft's company mascot, Hell how many western gaming company's can you say got a chance to work on the Mario ?

- Ubisoft has collaborated on not just Mario, But Donkey Kong and Star Fox as well.

- Nintendo published Rayman Legends for Japan.

- Rayman Legends had Mario and Luigi costumes for Rayman and Globox

- Ubisoft provided a 3D model for trophy for Smash 4.

- Rayman spirit already in game and costumes of Rabbids and Assassins Creed recently added.

Rayman has a lot going for him regardless of his status in Japan and I can totally see a scenario where Nintendo and Ubisoft's strong partnership leads to an agreement to add Rayman as a way of showing thanks for their work together.

Like I said before I truly believe Crash Bandicoot and Rayman have the best chance in terms of western gaming/representation to make season 2, Whether it's one or the other and it's longshot, But maybe even both.

Rayman's already in the game as a Spirit which explains how a lot of people feel about his chances

 

[TheCJBrine]

When discussing Steve with somebody I know that has much more experience in game design, something to consider with him is how his design, not appearance, clashes with Smash.

Most characters in Smash have their limbs, and then their hands and feet are bigger than they probably should be so that the hitboxes work properly. This isn’t just Smash that does this...Tekken and Street Fighter characters typically have massive feet.

With Steve, his arms are just boxes. There aren’t any hands involved, which makes the design a potential problem. Steve could attack with an entirely tool based moveset, but I simply think that that’s something to think about.

I would also throw at least Crash Bandicoot into the “western” mix. A 90’s competitor with Sonic and Mario, is the collection on Switch last year or such...would be an entirely worthwhile pick in my humble opinion.

Steve’s limbs are bigger than his head though length-wise, and no reason they couldn’t grow a bit in moves anyway imo. However, Minecraft has plenty of tools/other items he could use, including a lot of unique ones, so I don’t see this being a problem at all. I don’t see him using any punching or kicking moves, outside of his jab possibly being a normal punch (could keep punching if the button is held down).

Examples of stuff he could use:
-A bow
-A crossbow (this and the bow could also shoot potion arrows, while this could shoot fireworks as well)
-A trident
-A chest (could perhaps be his F-Tilt)
-Pickaxes (I like to imagine his sidesmash being a heavy downwards pickaxe swing that can spike opponents going for the ledge)
-Axes
-Swords
-Hoes
-Shovels
-Minecart
-Crafting Table (upgrade tools or armor, or craft stuff to use)
-Place blocks (limited amount (maybe a max of 3 on stage), can be destroyed, will disappear after a certain amount of time)
-Enderpearl (could be his up-special)
-Elytra + Fireworks (could also be his up-special)
-Fireballs
-Torches
-Potions, splash potions, and lingering potions
-Anvil (could be his Dair)
-TNT (could also be his Dair)
-Flint and Steel >:]
-Lava Bucket >:]

Also, Villager and Isabelle don’t have any moves that cause their proportions to grow, I think, except for Villager’s jab; at least, there’s very few moves like that. Mr. Game & Watch too, maybe some sword characters like Link. I think characters like Ryu and Terry also have some moves where their proportions don’t change.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

remember when ppl thought they saw Rayman's model in the ice on Battlefield

good times

seriously tho, if there's a western third party i feel will ABSOLUTELY NEVER make it in, it's Spyro. a video was posted a few pages back about how his games were horribly botched programming wise in Japan, basically giving Spyro tedious controls and a Resident Evil camera system, and so much BS that they didn't even bother releasing Year of the Dragon there

basically Spyro is literally hated in Japan cause of programming screw ups. I don’t even think the remaster was released there

 

[Seanapotamus]

I just wanted to say this, if (and that's a big if) we're getting a character reveal next week, then I will be happy that we're going into this reveal completely blind. Bring on the pass opener Nintendo, if they're ready for presentation.

Even better, we'd be going into the reveal (if it happens next week) without the guessing game that we had last time when we were trying to figure out who was going to be the closer for the first challenger pack.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also I'd say Assassin's Creed is a bigger Ubisoft name than Rayman, and we all know what happened to that

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Okay then. A better example is:
Terry can't be in Smash because he was already in Fighting EX Layer.

That's not a platform fighter though.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

remember when ppl thought they saw Rayman's model in the ice on Battlefield

good times

seriously tho, if there's a western third party i feel will ABSOLUTELY NEVER make it in, it's Spyro. a video was posted a few pages back about how his games were horribly botched programming wise in Japan, basically giving Spyro tedious controls and a Resident Evil camera system, and so much BS that they didn't even bother releasing Year of the Dragon there

I think most people will agree that Spyro the Dragon biggest roadblock and competition is being overshadowed by Crash Bandicoot.

He would be a good choice, But no way in hell does anyone see Nintendo and Activision choosing him over Crash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's not a platform fighter though.

Damm bros guess Simon Belmont can't be in Smash as he's already in a platform fighter

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

basically giving Spyro tedious controls and a Resident Evil camera system

...And here I thought the atrocious load times were enough the kill the game.

And just...The game's camera wasn't great but at least it served it's purpose. Why would you think a fixed camera system would be a good idea in a momentum based game?

Damm bros guess Simon Belmont can't be in Smash as he's already in a platform fighter

Castlevania Judgement was a platform fighter?