Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

Nquoid

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Assuming the final reps are indeed Bamco and Capcom, who would you want, friends?

I'd say Kos-Mos and Amaterasu respectively.
Lloyd and Leon (with Amaterasu as a close runner up for Capcom). Gamecube was where I really got into Nintendo home consoles, after being all about the handhelds for years, and those two hit the nostalgia sweet spot for me hardest.
 
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Genuine question to this thread since I saw his name come up, does Agumon count as a video game character? I know Digimon got its start in Virtual Pets, which seems to be really blurring the lines on the whole, "video game characters only" line that Sakurai has used in the past. I'm not here to criticize fans of the character, but I've always wanted to ask that and this seems as a good a time as any without directly challenging the support thread.
 

osby

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Genuine question to this thread since I saw his name come up, does Agumon count as a video game character? I know Digimon got its start in Virtual Pets, which seems to be really blurring the lines on the whole, "video game characters only" line that Sakurai has used in the past. I'm not here to criticize fans of the character, but I've always wanted to ask that and this seems as a good a time as any without directly challenging the support thread.
I imagine he'd be fine. R.O.B. and Miis also aren't exactly video game characters in the traditional sense.
 

ryumo the Zekenator

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Genuine question to this thread since I saw his name come up, does Agumon count as a video game character? I know Digimon got its start in Virtual Pets, which seems to be really blurring the lines on the whole, "video game characters only" line that Sakurai has used in the past. I'm not here to criticize fans of the character, but I've always wanted to ask that and this seems as a good a time as any without directly challenging the support thread.
Agumon is an interesting case, depends on how delimiting you see the whole Virtual Mascot (like Tamagotchi) thing because pretty much it became a media franchise afterwards. It could be seen as detrimental or a non-issue but I lean in mostly a non-issue due to the exitence of R.O.B. as a peripheral.
 

Idon

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Genuine question to this thread since I saw his name come up, does Agumon count as a video game character? I know Digimon got its start in Virtual Pets, which seems to be really blurring the lines on the whole, "video game characters only" line that Sakurai has used in the past. I'm not here to criticize fans of the character, but I've always wanted to ask that and this seems as a good a time as any without directly challenging the support thread.
Considering Mr. Game and Watch is the exact same type of "game" character?

Yeah, probably.
 
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I imagine he'd be fine. R.O.B. and Miis also aren't exactly video game characters in the traditional sense.
That's completely fair. And we have stages for games like Nintendogs, Tomadaci Life, and Electroplankton too, all of which aren't really video games in their own right as well. I suppose I'm wondering if Sakurai's comment becomes more heavily enforced with regards to third parties than Nintendo properties. That line has always been a little fuzzy, but he seems to have a clear conception of what is and isn't Smash with how many times he has shot down Goku and non video game characters though, so I suppose it really depends on how Sakurai views it.

It's really difficult for me to make my speculative call when all our examples rely on distinctly Nintendo material and that has always had way more leeway than third party content (Though that also been increasingly relaxed over the past four years, so it may not amount to much anymore).

R.O.B is also a super fascinating example since he's like a real video game character player 1.5 that has to be interacted with through NES controller button presses, which makes him just the absolute epitome of impossible to categorize. He's essentially an necessary game mechanic that only has a physical form and no on-screen counterpart.
 
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Nquoid

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Genuine question to this thread since I saw his name come up, does Agumon count as a video game character? I know Digimon got its start in Virtual Pets, which seems to be really blurring the lines on the whole, "video game characters only" line that Sakurai has used in the past. I'm not here to criticize fans of the character, but I've always wanted to ask that and this seems as a good a time as any without directly challenging the support thread.
My main concern point there is that it doesn't feel like the rallying point for the franchise is around video games? Obviously the virtual pet came first and then the Sega Saturn video game I believe (?), but what I see most from the franchise are the anime, and the games seem like a secondary content stream. Like I couldn't point you to a game to try if Agumon got in. Digimon World? Cathode/Anode Trainer? Rumble Arena?
 
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Ornl

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Will there be a Bamco rep?

Why Bamco, who is developing Smash, would add one of his characters at the last moment?
Why this character would be in DLC?
Why Tales of or Tekken would be in DLC, whereas they could have evolved from Sm4sh Costume to something else in Ultimate (like Rathalos)?
What character would bring general satisaction?
The Hero is the new character in Smash. How a new heroic fantasy* JRPG hero could appear? *edit
Ryu is the best fighiting game rep. How could new fighiting game rep could appear?
How Pokémon wouldn't eliminate Digimon?
How Isabelle wouldn't eliminate Mametchi? Why Mametchi would be in DLC?
 
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NSSKG151

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Assuming the final reps are indeed Bamco and Capcom, who would you want, friends?

I'd say Kos-Mos and Amaterasu respectively.
Phoenix Wright from the Ace Attorney series for Capcom. Would definitely bring an unorthodox moveset with him.

Nightmare from Soulcalibur for Bandai Namco. Probably unlikely but it would be interesting to see an antagonistic mascot showing up in Smash. KOS-MOS would also be another cool pick to me.
 
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Assuming the final reps are indeed Bamco and Capcom, who would you want, friends?

I'd say Kos-Mos and Amaterasu respectively.
Phoenix Wright and Heihachi Mishima. PW is my most wanted by far, but I would still gladly take Leon or Jill, or even (imo disconfirmed) characters like Dante, Amaterasu, V. Joe or Monster Hunter.
Genuine question to this thread since I saw his name come up, does Agumon count as a video game character? I know Digimon got its start in Virtual Pets, which seems to be really blurring the lines on the whole, "video game characters only" line that Sakurai has used in the past. I'm not here to criticize fans of the character, but I've always wanted to ask that and this seems as a good a time as any without directly challenging the support thread.
I think Digimon qualifies, but I think it won't ever get in Smash because it was only really famous for the anime.
The Hero is the new character in Smash. How a new JRPG hero could appear?
Did you forget that we got Joker, another JRPG character, in the same pass?
Ryu is the best fighiting game rep. How could new fighiting game rep could appear?
I don't get it, why can't there be more than one fighting game character?
 

Ornl

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Did you forget that we got Joker, another JRPG character, in the same pass?
The difference in style is a good reason to have several JRPG rep. How a new heroic fantasy JRPG hero could appear?

I don't get it, why can't there be more than one fighting game character?
Who would be as popular and as related to Nintendo as Ryu? Why Ultimate would do less good than Sm4sh?
 
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Because Lloyd doesn't look similar to any of the Heroes and wouldn't play like them either.

And Heihachi from Tekken is quite popular (hell, if sales are any indication, more popular than Ryu), and while not as related to Nintendo as Ryu still has had a presence on their systems. Sakurai seems to agree, seeing how he considered Heihachi for Smash 4.
 

Ornl

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Corrin was different, arriving as a 2nd heroic fantasy JRPG rep after Cloud. Arriving after Cloud, he disappointed the players. How not to provoke the disappointment of the players, like a 2nd Corrin effect , with another heroic fantasy JRPG hero?

Selling alone doesn't make popularity. The age of a series and the surveys of preference (example) are also to be taken into account. Why agree to Heihachi in Sm4sh, but not more in Ultimate core game?
 
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N3ON

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Corrin was different, arriving as a 2nd heroic fantasy JRPG rep after Cloud. Arriving after Cloud, he disappointed the players. How not to provoke the disappointment of the players, like a 2nd effect Corrin, with another heroic fantasy JRPG hero?
I think you've misunderstood why people weren't big on Corrin. It wasn't some feeling of the type being overdone (I mean Lloyd, Isaac, Sora, Elma, etc. would continue to be popular - and would've been better received than Corrin) it was the excessiveness of Fire Emblem representation mixed with the general antipathy that comes with blatant promotional additions (plus the fact that Corrin was never that demanded to begin with).

The same kind of backlash to perceived overrepresentation (claims of bias and all) happened - though obviously to a lesser degree - with Kid Icarus, Star Fox, and Kirby previously (and probably Zelda, though that was before my time).

Also, Roy was first, not Cloud. Corrin would've been third, and the complaints levelled at Cloud were not on the basis of being another "heroic fantasy JRPG rep". Though really... technically, Corrin would've been the fifth JRPG rep, what with Mewtwo and Lucas predating him as well.
 
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Will there be a Bamco rep?

Why Bamco, who is developing Smash, would add one of his characters at the last moment?
Why this character would be in DLC?
Why Tales of or Tekken would be in DLC, whereas they could have evolved from Sm4sh Costume to something else in Ultimate (like Rathalos)?
What character would bring general satisaction?
The Hero is the new character in Smash. How a new heroic fantasy* JRPG hero could appear? *edit
Ryu is the best fighiting game rep. How could new fighiting game rep could appear?
How Pokémon wouldn't eliminate Digimon?
How Isabelle wouldn't eliminate Mametchi? Why Mametchi would be in DLC?
This post is kind of gibberish to me to be honest.
 

Staarih

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I'm a sucker for the Smash trailers haha, I rewatch them regularly, and the reception for the Hero's Japanese trailer is interesting:


I know I definitely underestimated DQ as I know nothing of the series but wow. I guess "one character for the east, one for the west" pays off.
 

Ornl

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Lloyd, Isaac, Sora, Elma, etc. would continue to be popular - and would've been better received than Corrin. Corrin was never that demanded to begin with.
Lloyd and Issac don't have the same popularity. For example, the Lloyd thread is 17 pages long. How he couldn't disappoint the players as compared to Isaac, who has 936 pages? I am convinced that the Hero is more legitimate than Issac and Sora. Is Lloyd more legitimate than Isaac and Sora? How could he bring general satisaction?
 

N3ON

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I'm a sucker for the Smash trailers haha, I rewatch them regularly, and the reception for the Hero's Japanese trailer is interesting:

I know I definitely underestimated DQ as I know nothing of the series but wow. I guess "one character for the east, one for the west" pays off.
While I don't know if I've personally ever felt less one way or another for a character reveal than the DQ Hero, I'm thrilled Japan is happy. I've been over there and seen first-hand how huge it is; definitely deserving of representation.

I completely get the general muted western response, but it's just a shame that you'll see pockets of western fans being a bit... short-sighted and ungracious when it comes to appreciating how not every character is aimed at their demographic. Especially on the back of also getting Banjo.

Lloyd and Issac don't have the same popularity. For example, the Lloyd thread is 17 pages long. How he couldn't disappoint the players as compared to Isaac, who has 936 pages? I am convinced that the Hero is more legitimate than Issac and Sora. Is Lloyd more legitimate than Isaac and Sora? How could he bring general satisaction?
I never said they were of equal popularity, but those four characters are all obviously popular, more so than Corrin, and were back in 2015 as well. His reveal didn't hinder their future demand. Also going by pages on one site is basically taking a sliver of a sliver of a total piece of the audience in question. I mean Joker's thread only had 13 pages prior to his reveal, and I think he brought "general satisfaction". It's a bad metric built on meaningless parallels.

Also kinda ignored the driving point of my post though to dissect something I stuck in tangential parentheses.

I wouldn't be surprised if Captain Marvel gets announced as a fighter since Nintendo now owns the Marvel Ultimate Alliance IP.
They don't own the IP, they just own some rights to the one game in the series they're funding.
 
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I completely get the general muted western response, but it's just a shame that you'll see pockets of western fans being a bit... short-sighted and ungracious when it comes to appreciating how not every character is aimed at their demographic. Especially on the back of also getting Banjo.
It was disappointing to see some posters act like Hero personally killed Banjo before the Direct was even over. People were out for blood over nothing.

I'm a sucker for the Smash trailers haha, I rewatch them regularly, and the reception for the Hero's Japanese trailer is interesting:

I know I definitely underestimated DQ as I know nothing of the series but wow. I guess "one character for the east, one for the west" pays off.
Dragon Quest 3 was so popular people were mugging each other for it on release. After Mario and Pokemon, it's probably the most popular gaming franchise in Japan.
 
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Assuming the final reps are indeed Bamco and Capcom, who would you want, friends?

I'd say Kos-Mos and Amaterasu respectively.
Bandai Namco: My candidates would be between Heihachi Mishima, Jin Kazama, Lloyd Irving, Yuri Lowell or Velvet Crowe. If I were to pick one of these, I would opt for Heihachi or Velvet.

Capcom: Even though Street Fighter already has two reps in form of Ryu and Ken (as Ryu's Echo Fighter), if they were to bring in another character from the SF franchise, the next candidate would ideally be Chun-Li. Anyways, other franchises that I could possibly see as a potential candidates as Capcom's third rep could be between the likes of a Monster Hunter, someone from Resident Evil, Ace Attorney, Devil May Cry etc.

If I were to pick one, I would opt for a Monster Hunter or a Resident Evil character.
 
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Ornl

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I mean Joker's thread only had 13 pages prior to his reveal, and I think he brought "general satisfaction". It's a bad metric built on meaningless parallels.
I think to make a parallel between Persona and Tales popuarities isn't right, considering that the popularity of Joker was essentially Japanese, top 1 in 2017. This isn't the case with Lloyd. That's why I chose to compare Lloyd with Isaac.
 

zferolie

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I honestly have no idea who the final reps could be, and i am quite excited about that. Hero and Banjo have been the only constant names going around, and while i am very happy both are in(using 8 as my main skin because that game got me into the series) just the idea that the last 2 are pretty much unknown to anyone is an exciting time.

I myself am still pushing for Shantae the most. I dont beleive 100% spirits deconfirm untill sakurai says so. I know its a high chance though.

If the series theory is correct(which i dont think so as that is a bit too easy to do, we cant say till we see the mii costumes brought with hero) i think a tales of rep and a resident evil rep would be the more likely ones. Monster hunter maybe but i think sakurai felt a monster is the best rep for that series and i agree.

Tales of Lloyd is the most likely, but i would like Velvet a lot for her more unique gameplay. Doubt we would get an Arise character, way too soon.

For resident evil Jill i would want the most. A female character plus i think she could be more interesting then leon, plus she was the main hero from the first game.

Honestly though. I would like more new companies for the last 2. Shantae i already said, but Reimu would be awesome too 8f they go for a japanese indie. Touhou is absolutely massive in japan amd the series is getting rep on the switch, both offical games and many fan games. Rayman still would be cool as would doomguy but seeing the new trailer really makes me think he would be hard to make really cool without the gore, but it would be possible.

Ryu hayabusa is the last nes big name not in smash, so he would be fun. 2B may be too new but it could fit, especially if that third party series theory is possible, maybe over another capcom character since they already got a new rep in the base game, like konami did.

I doubt any 1st partys are getting in, as i really feel every rep are big new series, but maybe a golden sun or paper mario, those are the only 2 i could see as big enough to be part of the same hype as the last 3 dlc characters
 
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Since The Dragon Quest Hero and Banjo-Kazooie were confirmed, which leaks still remain legit and which ones were debunked?
There is that Sylux, FE three houses rep (forgot which one it was) one that is still standing as far as I'm aware but that's more or less it.

Any other insiders that predicted the DLC correctly so far haven't revealed or hinted the identity of character 4 and 5 though as far as I'm aware.

There is also Vergeben who apparently still stands by that minecraft content is coming, but its that, content, not necessarily character specifically, so it could also be a Spirit or Mii costume or something I suppose...
 
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While I don't know if I've personally ever felt less one way or another for a character reveal than the DQ Hero, I'm thrilled Japan is happy. I've been over there and seen first-hand how huge it is; definitely deserving of representation.

I completely get the general muted western response, but it's just a shame that you'll see pockets of western fans being a bit... short-sighted and ungracious when it comes to appreciating how not every character is aimed at their demographic. Especially on the back of also getting Banjo.
What's interesting to see is that contrary to popular belief in the West, the Japanese care about Banjo just as much as the west does. The franchise did surprisingly well here considering how poorly the N64 did in Japan. And many Japanese Smash fans were just as excited for Banjo as their western counterparts. In fact, many of them had Banjo as their number 1 pick as well, and were more excited for him than Yuusha in fact:


Not saying people weren't excited for DQ, of course they were. But I often see people say that "Japan doesn't care about Banjo" when that couldn't be further from the truth. Japanese Smash fans like the Bear and Bird a whole lot. They just saw him as even more impossible than we did.
 

3BitSaurus

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What's interesting to see is that contrary to popular belief in the West, the Japanese care about Banjo just as much as the west does. The franchise did surprisingly well here considering how poorly the N64 did in Japan. And many Japanese Smash fans were just as excited for Banjo as their western counterparts. In fact, many of them had Banjo as their number 1 pick as well, and were more excited for him than Yuusha in fact:

Not saying people weren't excited for DQ, of course they were. But I often see people say that "Japan doesn't care about Banjo" when that couldn't be further from the truth. Japanese Smash fans like the Bear and Bird a whole lot. They just saw him as even more impossible than we did.
In fact, Banjo did so well it sold nearly as much as DQIII, if memory serves. Should you count the old games as part of Microsoft, that would make Banjo-Kazooie their second best selling game in Japan, second only to Minecraft.
 
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In fact, Banjo did so well it sold nearly as much as DQIII, if memory serves. Should you count the old games as part of Microsoft, that would make Banjo-Kazooie their second best selling game in Japan, second only to Minecraft.
That's not true overrall. DQ3 sold a lot more than banjo. maybe 3 million more (i'm not stoping at NES tho..) or more.

And also banjo's sales were worldwide, it was a lot less than that for japan only.
 
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Ornl

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In fact, Banjo did so well it sold nearly as much as DQIII, if memory serves. Should you count the old games as part of Microsoft, that would make Banjo-Kazooie their second best selling game in Japan, second only to Minecraft.
Japan sales between Dragon Quest and Banjo aren't similar.
Then, total sales that are accounted for Banjo are valued at 7.5M units sold (Banjo-Kazooie 0.55M in Japan).
Dragon Quest has x10 more (series 78M ; DQIII all editions 5M in Japan).
 
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Japan sales between Dragon Quest and Banjo aren't similar.
Then, total sales that are accounted for Banjo are valued at 7.5M units sold (Banjo-Kazooie 0.55M in Japan).
Dragon Quest has x10 more (series 78M ; DQIII all editions 5M in Japan).
Since they were comparing with dq3, I think they meant only banjo kazooie, not tooie.
dq3 still sold more. (in total. and by a lot if only talking about japan)

and dq3's sales go higher than 7M overall
 
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3BitSaurus

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That's not true overrall. DQ3 sold a lot more than banjo. maybe 3 million more (i'm not stoping at NES tho..) or more.

And also banjo's sales were worldwide, it was a lot less than that for japan only.
Yeah, sorry, should have specified. What numbers did I confuse it for, though? I remember seeing sales charts for a western platformer with a few million sales in Japan... Crash maybe? Now I'm curious. Will number crunch for a while. Be back in a bit.
 
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